Mistake Lead To Spiral Breakup

[codeawsome]

Hey!

This is partially me venting and partially looking for a solution. This is a ~3 year long relationship. I will try to keep this as short as possible but also provide enough necessary context.

A bit about me:

I grew up in a rough home with controlling but loving parents. I also was bullied in school heavily and cycled through a lot of different schools. My parents took notice and put me in my teenager years into overdrive in hopes of getting me to catch up. I also was putting in an large amount of effort to catch myself up socially. Lost a lot of weight over a long period of time. Figured out how to socialize. Finally I got to the point where I wanted to find a special someone. This is now in my early 20's (Think 22 23). Long story short, did a lot of work and got myself to a place where I was decently happy.

The type of love I was looking for was Bonnie and Clyde. This is mainly structured off my parents relationship. They both are lifelong and very devoted to each other. My mindset going into a relationship was getting values out of the way, have the same goals and then build history + connection. I want to go on a journey with someone. I'd like it to be a very long one though. I like the idea of growing old with someone.

Also to add, I haven't been in a serious relationship yet. This would be my first time with everything. So this is by far probably the most vulnerable relationship I was ever in. I've not felt this seen ever I think. At this point, I genuinely thought I was ready. Had my stuff sorted out. Had a career was working out and had hobbies. Now time to find my special someone.

Anyways. When I met them, it was like magic. I don't think I ever actually met someone who matched me on such a deep level. We had a lot of in depth discussions about our values etc. We went at it actually pretty slowly. However I actually couldn't believe it! I met someone who just matched me in everything! Well almost everything. They had really cool hobbies too which I took an interest in. I was taking this seriously and I also read up a lot on BPD. I missed some red flags, like them telling me they got mad at their therapist at one point and stopping that. However it seemed like we had an agreement that we both work on each other and keep improving in the relationship. All the while helping each other grow.

I don't need to get into it all. The usual. Chemistry A tier. Sex A tier. Values & Goals? Aligned. Just everything checked my boxes.

Now to the other side of things:

I joined this relationship with them when they were really dysregulated. A large amount of drinking and impulsive behaviour. Also suicidal ideation. Somewhere here I got this fear of them dying. I remember coming for them at night to get them after some major blow ups.

This is also where I noticed some rage. They would have something that annoys them in a day and then let it out like on them or something around them. Typically though this started slowly in the relationship and then escalated. It escalated to a point where I was the one that received the brunt of some really harsh verbal abuse.

Self harming was difficult to deal with also. I had to witness a pretty bad self harm incident and take her to emergency room once.

She put me down at times. Not directly. Over the course of the relationship it felt like parts of me were just chizzled/cut away. I also participated a lot in the alcohol and drugs later on.

Put it mildly. I ended up being hyper-vigilant. I have OCD which I thought I had under control but due to dysregulation I just fell apart in this relationship. I made mistakes, however I always took responsibility and tried my hardest to correct my behaviour. I was very hard on myself this whole relationship. I wanted to be her all. Just everything to her. I didn't know that I even had some bad maladaptive mechanisms myself. The dynamic brought it out of me. I felt like I was very stressed a lot. Lots of rumination. Paranoia. It was difficult. I didn't notice where and when my psyche started falling apart. Although I do remember at some point I just felt an acute "Something doesn't feel right with my head". I stopped remembering things, I stopped being myself. Sometimes I felt like I was insane. I had a lot of jealousy problems. Although I can't help but shake the feeling that my exbpd seeked validation from external sources in a roundabout plausible deniability way. They had a lot of red flags about things they said on lying etc. Very secretive with their phone.

I was broken up with twice. This being the second one. The first time around I felt like I was gonna eventually be broken up with. They told me it's okay though and reassured me. They broke up with me. I chased them, they came back because they missed me. I promised to fix all my issues and worked really hard in the second portion of the relationship to keep growing. At this point too a lot of other life stressors in my life were calming down and I actually managed to get a lot better and started re-appearing more in the relationship. Somehow figuring out some healthy balance that I could walk.

At the same time they actually went through DBT and seemed to get a lot better. They hit rock bottom with their impulsive behaviour and went through around ~1 year of committed therapy until the therapist thought they were stable. A lot of symptoms seemed to actually have improved.

At this point though, I feel like I was a shell of myself. The suicidal worrying, rages, all the small things they did before which pushed me so out of wack I had to process and deal with. Instead I sort of buried it. The relationship was going well. I was able to handle splits. I would give them space. Although it felt like it was just constantly wearing me down. I was getting tired and I knew it. I ended up making a mistake again. Purely accidental. I'm a little worried about going into details because I know they probably scour these forums a little. So lets just humour me that it wasn't the end of the world type mistake. I remember just how awful I felt though. I would go days and days on end crying, beating myself up over this mistake. Honestly being really horrible to myself. I also was scared that they would harm themselves. I was feeling horrible about them breaking up with me (because of the mistake, or the culmination of resentment and everything they had for me). They did it over text too which hurt like hell. I ended up talking with a trusted person close to me and they brought me back to baseline where the fog was somewhat lifted and I noticed just how deep in this muck I was. It honestly scared me how crazy I was behaving towards myself. They weren't nice to me also during this period of time. Anyways I chased them again. This pushed them away from me. I didn't respect their need for space to process everything. I tried to hold back from chasing, I really did. It felt like they were just cold shouldering me. I felt completely not like myself during this period of time. Probably the most emotional whiplash I ever had to face.

Before this incident they did mention that they needed to be nicer to me. At one point I believe drinking at night (I was sleeping) they texted me a flurry of texts claiming that they treat me horribly and if I had any confidence I should've broken up with them. Also that they're not good for my growth at all. However when they woke up they apologized for those messages but still said they have to be nicer to me. They thought that the good parts of the relationship are clouding my judgment. Anyways I agreed to talk to them at a later time about this. We never got around to it. I'm trying to remember why but honestly maybe it was just life circumstances and it was hard to bring up again to talk about. Although I really wanted to.

During the breakup I think I noticed this was toxic and asked them if we could both talk about it. I mentioned how the constant breakups have me living on edge and that im always trying to predict them etc. They told me that they're sorry I feel that way. Anyways we never really had a talk. I thought they were slow fading me but then they told me they didn't want to talk because I didn't respect their need for space. Eventually they said they didn't know if they wanted to talk, so they told me to wait till a certain date. However when that date came, I ended up rejecting the conversation. I processed more and felt like it wasn't worth it given everything I went through. They don't want to date me. They don't seem to see me fully bad in a black and white split sort of way. Although at the same time I can't shake the weird 100 --> 0 behaviour. AKA before the incident I was their world now im just some ex that they will get over eventually. It's weird.

We did have a phone conversation though. They mentioned how they wanted to see that I was happy on their own and not happy with just them. They don't want to date me. They also mentioned that they're not sure of their own emotions most of the time. They did apologize for a lot of their own behaviour. They told me that they actually wanted to breakup for a very long time but just didn't want to breakup with me at the same time? It was super selfish of them they told me. Although now I feel like I was living a half life, aka they only pretended they wanted to be with me.

I'm trying to look at this through my lens. I'm just having a lot of difficulty doing that. Don't get me wrong though, I mentioned a lot of what I have been through but I still view them positively. There was a huge amount of history together. I don't know it's difficult letting this all go. I honest to god feel that if I had a 3rd go at this I would approach this completely differently. New game plan completely. To be fair though I would want them in consistent therapy. I would also be in therapy too. Which I don't think they would want to do? 

She told me over the phone that I shouldn't feel bad about this situation, because it's only how she feels about me. It's not how I genuinely am. Which I was thinking about and then the dots sort of connected. I honest to god think she was trying to tell me that it's a feeling she's having. Not connected to me. AKA it's something she's experiencing because of the heightened state she went through. It's like im trying to see this through my lens but her lens must be completely different. Bad situation happened --> Tons of emotions --> Hard to process --> Spiral --> Feeling dictates reality?

She told me I was very good with bad parts also. Like any human is. I just don't know if she's identifying with that logic exactly though. It seems like she had the blow up and then just decided game over. She did tell me before that she lets resentment build up also and then kicks people out of her life.

I'm just stuck in this weird area where yeah she broke up with me but I also was someone that on a lot of fronts I think I did connect with her a lot with. I feel like I was really special to her too. She was extremely special to me also. I don't know if she will ever come back. Although she told me that she wants me to find another woman.

I made her chuckle a bit in the last conversation. Even then our chemistry and everything just was top tier. I miss her so much. I miss her dog. I think the only thing I can keep doing is basically sticking to my workouts + just self improvement? There's nothing I can do in this situation. Out of my control. Although I can't stop ruminating on it all.

Very difficult stuff to deal with. I really wish I could reverse this whole situation somehow. I'm not entirely sure that's rational or logical to do though.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're dealing with heartbreak and trying to find a way forward.  It's so difficult at first and can take quite a bit of time to move past.  How long ago did the breakup happen?

Your story is so familiar to me and so many other members here as well...just know that you're not alone.  What you experienced (the good and the bad) are common in BPD relationships, from the initial idolation to the sudden discarding.  None of this is your fault; it's mental illness and disordered thinking.

About your mistake: I'm 52 and have been in many relationships across my life.  Some were great and some didn't work out, but I made mistakes in every single one of them, including my current marriage.  Relationships aren't about being perfect, they're about loving and forgiving each other as you grow together. 

Your ex couldn't do that and she runs from relationships whenever there's the slightest challenge.  That's not on you at all, my friend.

One last thing- about the things she's said since the breakup.  She's mentally unstable and says literally whatever she feels in the moment.  The problem with feelings is that they change frequently, so what she said 10 minutes ago might not be true right now.  And if you're trying to work through that logically, it can literally drive you insane because there's nothing logical about it.

Again, it's disordered thinking.

It sounds like you're on the right track- working out and focusing on your mental health.  That's the right move whether you hope to reconcile or not.  For now though, you must move on and put your needs first...get busy and stay around friends and family.  Please ask questions here as well since you're among friends.

[codeawsome]

How long ago did the breakup happen?

At this point it would be nearly 2 months. I think I chased them for the first month and a half sort of. Now it's completely no contact. Fully over.

Your story is so familiar to me and so many other members here as well...just know that you're not alone.  What you experienced (the good and the bad) are common in BPD relationships, from the initial idolation to the sudden discarding.  None of this is your fault; it's mental illness and disordered thinking.

It's really interesting just how much these sort of relationships seem to follow similar patterns. I'm slowly but surely coming to terms with the fact that most of this was actually out of my control. You really feel like it's your fault when things first blow up but when it starts to settle, it's a difficult type of relationship to deal with in the first place.

About your mistake: I'm 52 and have been in many relationships across my life.  Some were great and some didn't work out, but I made mistakes in every single one of them, including my current marriage.  Relationships aren't about being perfect, they're about loving and forgiving each other as you grow together. 

My own parents talked to me about how many times each one of them did just the most annoying things to each other. I've seen them get mad at each other. However they seemed to always just forgive, talk it out and figure something out. I really wish she was capable of the same, to be honest though it's not realistic thinking at this point in time.

This is why I feel like a 3rd time around I would have a different gameplan. I was trying to play under this assumption that she thinks normally but it's disordered thinking. Not sure why I didn't change my approach earlier. I guess hindsight is 20 20. I tried my best with what I knew at the time.

One last thing- about the things she's said since the breakup.  She's mentally unstable and says literally whatever she feels in the moment.  The problem with feelings is that they change frequently, so what she said 10 minutes ago might not be true right now.  And if you're trying to work through that logically, it can literally drive you insane because there's nothing logical about it.

Again, it's disordered thinking.

It sounds like you're on the right track- working out and focusing on your mental health.  That's the right move whether you hope to reconcile or not.  For now though, you must move on and put your needs first...get busy and stay around friends and family.  Please ask questions here as well since you're among friends

Really appreciate the warmness of this community.

I'm coming to terms with most aspects of this relationship. Now I feel like given the fact that it's disordered thinking there might be a chance she comes back. Although given what she told me about how she kicks people out of her life fully after a period of time I doubt it also.

[Pook075]

I'm coming to terms with most aspects of this relationship. Now I feel like given the fact that it's disordered thinking there might be a chance she comes back. Although given what she told me about how she kicks people out of her life fully after a period of time I doubt it also.

You may not be ready to hear this yet, but you're an intelligent young man and I think you can handle it.

For BPDs, they jump from relationship to relationship because when they first meet someone, they seem perfect and they'll try to mirror that person- suddenly liking all of their hobbies, their favorite music and TV shows, etc.  And during that time, everything is AMAZING because they're treating you like a king.

Over time, they come to the realization that you're not perfect, and their thinking begins to change.  You did make a mistake and while you didn't share it directly, it was the catalyst for things to start to fall apart.  And in her mind, while thinking in a disordered way, she thought, "Oh my gosh, he's not who I thought he was...what if I was completely wrong about him?"

What follows next is a downward spiral as she examines every conversation, every date, etc.  But since she's already disordered with this thinking, everything is viewed through a jaded lens.  Think of a cop who knows 90% sure who the bad guy is, but he can't prove it.  Your ex became fixated and it led to her walking away before you could hurt her.

In reality though, she was hurting herself through mental illness.  In many ways, she's her own worst enemy.

BPDs then tend to find a new favorite person very quickly- it could be romantic or just a new best friend.  At this point, the cycle starts over and the new person is the best person ever...until they're not.  And then a 3rd cycle begins and eventually a 4th, 5th, etc.

During those cycles, it's common to look back in the past and think, "Should I really have broken up with that ex?  They were sort of perfect in every single way."  At that point their mind is ignoring the bad and focusing only on the good, so the same pattern repeats all over again.  You mentioned that you broke up once before and that's exactly what happened.

I can't tell you whether or not to give her another chance, but there's a pretty good chance that she'll be back in time.

The best advice I can give (other than focusing on yourself to get through this) is to read the tips and tools at the top of this forum and really soak in what a working BPD relationship is like.  It's challenging, it's sometimes unfair, but it's absolutely doable if you can learn to communicate with her in a different way.

[codeawsome]

You may not be ready to hear this yet, but you're an intelligent young man and I think you can handle it.

For BPDs, they jump from relationship to relationship because when they first meet someone, they seem perfect and they'll try to mirror that person- suddenly liking all of their hobbies, their favorite music and TV shows, etc.  And during that time, everything is AMAZING because they're treating you like a king.

Over time, they come to the realization that you're not perfect, and their thinking begins to change.  You did make a mistake and while you didn't share it directly, it was the catalyst for things to start to fall apart.  And in her mind, while thinking in a disordered way, she thought, "Oh my gosh, he's not who I thought he was...what if I was completely wrong about him?"

What follows next is a downward spiral as she examines every conversation, every date, etc.  But since she's already disordered with this thinking, everything is viewed through a jaded lens.  Think of a cop who knows 90% sure who the bad guy is, but he can't prove it.  Your ex became fixated and it led to her walking away before you could hurt her.

In reality though, she was hurting herself through mental illness.  In many ways, she's her own worst enemy.

BPDs then tend to find a new favorite person very quickly- it could be romantic or just a new best friend.  At this point, the cycle starts over and the new person is the best person ever...until they're not.  And then a 3rd cycle begins and eventually a 4th, 5th, etc.

During those cycles, it's common to look back in the past and think, "Should I really have broken up with that ex?  They were sort of perfect in every single way."  At that point their mind is ignoring the bad and focusing only on the good, so the same pattern repeats all over again.  You mentioned that you broke up once before and that's exactly what happened.

I can't tell you whether or not to give her another chance, but there's a pretty good chance that she'll be back in time.

The best advice I can give (other than focusing on yourself to get through this) is to read the tips and tools at the top of this forum and really soak in what a working BPD relationship is like.  It's challenging, it's sometimes unfair, but it's absolutely doable if you can learn to communicate with her in a different way.

Really appreciate everything you've written. Getting all of this off my chest helps. I wasn't perfect in this relationship too. Honestly though, im very grateful on the other hand that I got to experience such an interesting first relationship.

I think these relationships make you look at yourself very hard and see all sides to yourself. I know for me it did. I grew so much because of the work I applied. I don't recognize the person I was in the relationship.

Whether it's with her, or someone else. I know that I just upgraded myself. That's something I'm content with. She taught me how to love myself. That is a gift not many are able to achieve in a lifetime.

I know tomorrow I might wake up and miss her again and think a bit illogically. It is what it is I guess. I think this is just the whole grieving process. It's not really supposed to make sense.

[codeawsome]

Update: I talked with her.

So we met up and we talked. However I think I'm even more lost. Well not really I guess. Or maybe I am. I don't know.

Basically to summarize it. The mistake I made was the final nail in the coffin for them. They told me they didn't devalue me and they just don't want to date me. There wasn't much said. I asked them to describe to me how they felt when literally a little bit ago they were telling me I love you and stuff. They told me 2 months have passed and it's been a long time. Which is even more interesting! They moved on? This quickly?

I can't help but shake the feeling that I basically was just a bad partner. I know it's not logical. I know I made a lot of mistakes. I regret making this mistake so much. I got her sick accidentally on her birthday. I really didn't want to. She told me that when she got that upset (She was very very upset), she thought back to all the other times I did stuff and just didn't want "this anymore".

I tried to explain my side of things. Basically that I had life stressors, I was working really hard on this etc. I told her that people make mistakes, even she does. It's so confusing. She doesn't want to date me. It just hurts so much that this wonderful person who I just chatted with and enjoyed my time with in the final talk (also their dog missed me a lot) just "doesnt want this anymore". I don't think she will ever be back. That sucks.

[codeawsome]

Update: I talked with her.

So we met up and we talked. However I think I'm even more lost. Well not really I guess. Or maybe I am. I don't know.

Basically to summarize it. The mistake I made was the final nail in the coffin for them. They told me they didn't devalue me and they just don't want to date me. There wasn't much said. I asked them to describe to me how they felt when literally a little bit ago they were telling me I love you and stuff. They told me 2 months have passed and it's been a long time. Which is even more interesting! They moved on? This quickly?

I can't help but shake the feeling that I basically was just a bad partner. I know it's not logical. I know I made a lot of mistakes. I regret making this mistake so much. I got her sick accidentally on her birthday. I really didn't want to. She told me that when she got that upset (She was very very upset), she thought back to all the other times I did stuff and just didn't want "this anymore".

I tried to explain my side of things. Basically that I had life stressors, I was working really hard on this etc. I told her that people make mistakes, even she does. It's so confusing. She doesn't want to date me. It just hurts so much that this wonderful person who I just chatted with and enjoyed my time with in the final talk (also their dog missed me a lot) just "doesnt want this anymore". I don't think she will ever be back. That sucks.

She told me that I deserve to be with someone who doesn't feel that way about me. However when I asked them if they still feel this way about me aka be resentful or annoyed be the issue they said "I don't know". Damn. It's really final. Or not maybe I will be surprised in the future. I have no clue.

[codeawsome]

She told me that I deserve to be with someone who doesn't feel that way about me. However when I asked them if they still feel this way about me aka be resentful or annoyed be the issue they said "I don't know". Damn. It's really final. Or not maybe I will be surprised in the future. I have no clue.

It's really weird also because I felt like she was holding back tears. I don't know. It's so confusing. I feel like a failure for everything. I could've been a good partner but all my insecurities and everything must've gotten in the way. Then the mistakes. At the same time I told her "I need space to be myself, and make mistakes; People make mistakes, I should have room to make mistakes". She said "Sorry I couldn't offer that to you". I have a feeling what was said that this is some weird method of self torture must be correct because I honestly have no clue how to make sense of this. Maybe im not supposed to.

[codeawsome]

It's really weird also because I felt like she was holding back tears. I don't know. It's so confusing. I feel like a failure for everything. I could've been a good partner but all my insecurities and everything must've gotten in the way. Then the mistakes. At the same time I told her "I need space to be myself, and make mistakes; People make mistakes, I should have room to make mistakes". She said "Sorry I couldn't offer that to you". I have a feeling what was said that this is some weird method of self torture must be correct because I honestly have no clue how to make sense of this. Maybe im not supposed to.

I guess her decisions don't reflect on me as a human being. Still it just hurts. I wish I had that partner back that wanted to date me. I can't believe I made that mistake. It sucks.

[Pook075]

I guess her decisions don't reflect on me as a human being. Still it just hurts. I wish I had that partner back that wanted to date me. I can't believe I made that mistake. It sucks.

My friend, you can't take this personally...it was never about you.  The good times were good.  The bad times should have passed quickly if your ex would have worked with you through them.  But that's the mental illness part...she'd obsess over the bad until it was all she could think about.  She was so scared that you'd leave her that she ran away.

And you were right in your initial post- pursuing her somehow reinforced in her mind that you shouldn't be together.  Again, this is mental illness, not a slight on you personally.  If I was dating her, or anyone else here, we eventually would have reached this exact same place.  That's because it wasn't about your mistake...everyone makes mistakes all the time.

I got into an argument with my wife earlier and she's currently not speaking to me.  But that's just her, she gets mad and needs to sulk a little bit.  So I give her space and within the next few hours, she'll apologize for being angry and I'll apologize too.  That's how a normal relationship works, you and your partner know what the other needs. 

Unfortunately, that's not what you had.

For your ex, two months probably feels like a lifetime and it's entirely possible she moved on.  As I said earlier, they HAVE TO HAVE a favorite person that they idolize and place on a pedestal.  Without it they're lost and broken.  Again though, this is no knock on you.  My BPD ex wife did the same to me, and my BPD daughter has done it to many others.  It's like a switch flips in their mind and they have to flee relationships, absolutely destroying everything in the process.

I do agree that it might be good your first relationship was with a person like that.  When you find someone else, it's a good point of reference on how to communicate and how to love others the same way that they love you. 

Relationships aren't easy...I told you that my wife is not speaking to me right now.  Your parents have been there as well and every other couple on the planet.  The ones that work, however, have two people sacrificing for each other and learning to do better every day.  It's love + sacrifice + understanding + forgiveness, and it has to go two ways.

Keep talking, my friend, and get this off your chest.  I'm sure others will join the conversation soon enough.

[codeawsome]

My friend, you can't take this personally...it was never about you.  The good times were good.  The bad times should have passed quickly if your ex would have worked with you through them.  But that's the mental illness part...she'd obsess over the bad until it was all she could think about.  She was so scared that you'd leave her that she ran away.

And you were right in your initial post- pursuing her somehow reinforced in her mind that you shouldn't be together.  Again, this is mental illness, not a slight on you personally.  If I was dating her, or anyone else here, we eventually would have reached this exact same place.  That's because it wasn't about your mistake...everyone makes mistakes all the time.

I got into an argument with my wife earlier and she's currently not speaking to me.  But that's just her, she gets mad and needs to sulk a little bit.  So I give her space and within the next few hours, she'll apologize for being angry and I'll apologize too.  That's how a normal relationship works, you and your partner know what the other needs. 

Unfortunately, that's not what you had.

For your ex, two months probably feels like a lifetime and it's entirely possible she moved on.  As I said earlier, they HAVE TO HAVE a favorite person that they idolize and place on a pedestal.  Without it they're lost and broken.  Again though, this is no knock on you.  My BPD ex wife did the same to me, and my BPD daughter has done it to many others.  It's like a switch flips in their mind and they have to flee relationships, absolutely destroying everything in the process.

I do agree that it might be good your first relationship was with a person like that.  When you find someone else, it's a good point of reference on how to communicate and how to love others the same way that they love you. 

Relationships aren't easy...I told you that my wife is not speaking to me right now.  Your parents have been there as well and every other couple on the planet.  The ones that work, however, have two people sacrificing for each other and learning to do better every day.  It's love + sacrifice + understanding + forgiveness, and it has to go two ways.

Keep talking, my friend, and get this off your chest.  I'm sure others will join the conversation soon enough.

Agree with everything you said. I sat down and thought about this more with some journaling. It feels like I'm dealing with a couple things:

1. My head put the relationship on a very high pedestal. That's where a lot of my confusion comes from. Reason being is that when she broke up with me like that and then also seems to have detached really fast, while also devaluing the relationship and what we did together. My brain is struggling to comprehend the drastic change in reality.

Basically "I must have done something very bad in order to receive such bad treatment". I'm using this as practice now and am distancing myself from their actions. It's tough because I still have that association. Maybe it's the fog that I experienced from the relationship.

2. It's difficult for me to understand or get past these points at the moment

    2.1 I pushed her away by pursuing
    2.2 I'm not an entirely bad or good person

[2.1] Elaborate

So I do think this played a major role in her distancing herself completely. Although I've come to realize I can't really "win" in this situation. There's always a loss. To add more context. She has mentioned multiple times in the past her own poor behaviour, and then she made associations on how I should react to her behaviour. On the one hand she's correct. Her behaviour with rage and everything isn't good. Especially if directed at me. Also she is correct that there is something wrong with me! Codependency. Not really "wrong" but something I have to work on. I believe that when we broke up and I mentioned the hurt I received from the breakup, it really hurt her too. She felt horrible for hurting me. I also think that it contributed to what I just mentioned. Where I'm somehow flawed for even considering to be in a relationship with her. If I'm flawed then why would she want to date me. Also why would she want to hurt someone she loves who doesn't know any better. In a weird way I think she's trying to do me a favour. 

She has told me before that I'm "too nice". Or that she uses my niceness to basically be mean because I will just be nice. To be fair to myself here. I have in this relationship told her about her behaviour before. I have said things. I just tried to strike a balance. I won't be a raging lunatic at her. That's insane. I can tell her if something is off or affecting me though.

In a weird way her saying "you should want to be with someone who wants to be with you" is her projecting that judgment onto me without looking at the greater picture. I now think that she took me chasing her as just more proof that she's not good for me and she's basically hurting someone who doesn't know any better. Which is annoying. It feels like I have no autonomy as a human simply because I chose to be with her. I'm simply a flawed codependent who needs to learn that she's not good for me. No ifs or buts, just the way it is.

Thing is look. I struggled a lot in this relationship. I did. I wasn't healthy to start with in this relationship. I thought I was but I had to do a lot of work to even get to where I am now post breakup. At the same time, given the relationship lasted around 3 years. Me and her grew in that time. Is it really unhealthy for me to take her growth and translate it into hope? Is that really an insane human thing to do?

I saw her grow. It gave me hope and I kept fighting for the relationship. I think however in her head im somehow wrong for even choosing her. Which I don't think paints the full picture. There's more nuance. People are nuanced.

From my end I wanted to continue the dialogue. AKA Get more direct dialogue so we can grow even more together! However given that we both sort of spiralled. It didn't work out as I imagined it would.

[2.2] Elaborate

This is something I'm simply coming to terms with. What's interesting is just how differently I process issues in relationship compared to her. She took a mistake I made and got really upset, leading to her imagining the other times I made mistakes. Then she just didn't want any of it.

Looking back, I noticed that when she started spiralling she mentioned "Nothing will ever be good". She was so so upset and I think I noticed in real time how she took that intense emotion and fully rationalized it to me somehow. She blamed me at first, then said it wasn't something I meant to do. At the same time I noticed how she was building a sort of narrative for herself? When I got her sick she would ask if I was feeling good or bad. Given the circumstances I wasn't feeling too under the weather and was honest, but that comparison drove her to be even more upset. She also did things in the breakup which seemed selfish looking back.

The more I write this out the more I can sort of tell how it didn't really have much to do with me. I think I saw her in real time devaluing me or splitting whatever you want to call it.

I guess im starting to realize that whatever fears she has deep inside must be really difficult to deal with. This is why it's hard for me to understand it all. I just don't have those fears or doubts. I'm not entirely sure what she was thinking or what her narrative is right now. However I'm starting to realize that all of this seems utterly out of my control.

I honest to God don't think there was any way out of this. Eventually whether im mean to her (aka stop being nice, she eventually would not like that either though or I would be abusive) or im nice to her (she then respects me less) I just always would end up on the receiving end of a breakup. Is there literally any way I could have saved this relationship long term? This breakup has opened my eyes a bit now to the fact that it probably wouldn't have. I would have to essentially for the rest of my life walk on eggshells.

It might be something she understands too. I was too heartbroken to admit it to myself. She did mention in the breakup that I don't deserve to walk on eggshells. I deserve better. Maybe that's what she means in the end with all of this. She just wants better for me. Which makes me sad still, it's not easy walking away from someone I connected with so much.

At the same time I ask though, why? Like why not give it a shot? Why not try to get better? Why not be like "Hey I have this wonderful guy in front of me, lets just try". Although I'm coming to terms with this that my trying and her trying are probably different. I tried by fixing and doing more in the relationship, but im not her. She has her own struggles and maybe she couldn't show up like I did. Which is fine.

I really wish her the best and hope she continues growing. I know people with BPD can enter remission and get better if they really commit to a long process. She has done a lot of work already and I honestly couldn't be more proud of her. For all of her anxiety and fears, it's really amazing seeing a person like her who struggles so much achieve so much. I don't think she fully appreciates that about herself. I tried to tell her in the relationship a couple times that I really love how she's a fighter. She just wakes up and does PLEASE READ and pushes through it all. Honest to got she is an inspiration to me. I really admire her tenacity. She has also taught me a lot. I just wish I could have this person by my side. I really think we would've killed it together. However that might just be fantasy on my end.

[codeawsome]

You know, thinking about it more. Our first breakup seemed to follow a big event which lead to a downward spiral which eventually ended up with her breaking up with me. However I remember that the event was triggered by someone else. She was very mad at that person in particular. She was in a terrible mood in general for awhile.

I wonder if that situation is similar to this second breakup. Basically event --> negative feelings --> downward trajectory. Except this time, I was the trigger. I was the cause.

[Pook075]

I wonder if that situation is similar to this second breakup. Basically event --> negative feelings --> downward trajectory. Except this time, I was the trigger. I was the cause.

I can answer every single question you asked with three words- she's mentally ill.

Your logic is correct though; my marriage (to a BPD wife of 24 years) ended shortly after my father passed of cancer.  My wife and I cared for him at home 24/7 and when he passed, it absolutely devastated my ex-wife.  Over time, she shut down more and more, until eventually saying one day that she was done and it was over.

Were there things I could have done better?  Absolutely, and I did the exact same thing you're doing now trying to find the exact answer to how I could "fix things" or at least not repeat the same mistakes.  I basically drove myself crazy searching for answers that weren't there, because the real reason my marriage ended (and your relationship ended) is just three words- she's mentally ill.

I watch my BPD daughter completely destroy relationships with friends and partners all the time because their world starts spiraling out of control and they can't hide their feelings anymore.  So she lashes out at the people closest to her...it doesn't really matter who...and says the most God-awful things in the moment without thinking about it.

Part of my kid's problem is that once she crosses that point of no return (in her mind anyway), she writes that person off because she thinks, "Why on Earth would they forgive me?"  So her mentally ill mind begins making up reasons why they were bad for her anyway.  Before long, what was 100% her fault is re-written in her memory as something 100% justified.

There's no logic here my friend, it's mental health and disordered thinking.  And unless you can think in a disordered way from your ex's perspective, it will never make sense.  I can see you're very logical like me and that's 100% working against you here. 

You're trying to solve 2x-3=6 but x actually equals banana.  Why?  Because it's not a logical math problem, this is mental illness we're talking about.

I hope that helps, my friend, and please keep talking this out.

[codeawsome]

I can answer every single question you asked with three words- she's mentally ill.

Ah yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow. I have to though to let go. It's a very hard thing to accept. I think our brains aren't attuned to recognize a mental illness. We just take things at face value and then get confused. I really need to internalize that this isn't a normal situation. I think this fact is helping me move on more. I can step away from it all without needing to make much sense to it. 

Your logic is correct though; my marriage (to a BPD wife of 24 years) ended shortly after my father passed of cancer.  My wife and I cared for him at home 24/7 and when he passed, it absolutely devastated my ex-wife.  Over time, she shut down more and more, until eventually saying one day that she was done and it was over.

Were there things I could have done better?  Absolutely, and I did the exact same thing you're doing now trying to find the exact answer to how I could "fix things" or at least not repeat the same mistakes.  I basically drove myself crazy searching for answers that weren't there, because the real reason my marriage ended (and your relationship ended) is just three words- she's mentally ill.

I guess that's just how it goes. I seem to notice a pattern among a large amount of people in these relationships. It always seems to go downhill in this sort of fashion. I joined a therapy group myself and talked to a couple people there who had similar relationships. It's insane how it's like we all dated the same person in a general way.

I watch my BPD daughter completely destroy relationships with friends and partners all the time because their world starts spiraling out of control and they can't hide their feelings anymore.  So she lashes out at the people closest to her...it doesn't really matter who...and says the most God-awful things in the moment without thinking about it.

Part of my kid's problem is that once she crosses that point of no return (in her mind anyway), she writes that person off because she thinks, "Why on Earth would they forgive me?"  So her mentally ill mind begins making up reasons why they were bad for her anyway.  Before long, what was 100% her fault is re-written in her memory as something 100% justified.

This feels like it rings true and is similar to my situation. I can definitely apply what your daughter did to this situation. I think it's basically the same. It all sort of makes sense to me now.

There's no logic here my friend, it's mental health and disordered thinking.  And unless you can think in a disordered way from your ex's perspective, it will never make sense.  I can see you're very logical like me and that's 100% working against you here. 

You're trying to solve 2x-3=6 but x actually equals banana.  Why?  Because it's not a logical math problem, this is mental illness we're talking about.

I hope that helps, my friend, and please keep talking this out.

You're right. It's very unfortunate. I think my brain is trying to solve for x and keeps bashing it's head against the problem because that's what my head does. Solve problems in this logical fashion. Although I can definitely see how it's working against me now. I simply have to detach and let go.

I guess now that I feel more understanding and accepting of everything. I also grieved this relationship very hard and just dived fully into my emotions. Worked out consistently and a huge amount. All of this helped me bring my nervous system back down to baseline and also helped me move on to acceptance in a faster way. At this point though I just rebuilt good habits for myself so I will keep doing them.

Maybe using your daughter or past relationships as examples for my own curiosity. Do people with BPD then find a way back? I mean there's no way of 100% knowing. I accept that. I'm just now wondering how I navigate a scenario if she comes back. I'm not entirely sure what to expect. I'm not entirely sure what to trust when she says something to me. Although I trust her more because she seems more self aware.

Also though, is this even manageable? I think if I were to re-enter the relationship I would not have any expectations of it lasting long term. Instead I would almost expect that if something bad happens. It most likely means that a spiral may occur. I can then detach emotionally and prepare myself.

For example lets say I do get back into this. I'm better and smarter about it. More mature. 10 years down the road her dog dies. There's like no way I can expect that situation not to spiral. I mean reasonably so I guess, since a dog is something people attach to very hard. I just am saying that I probably can't have expectations really. It just is what it is at the end of the day?

[codeawsome]

I have made a breakthrough with my Codependancy I think and I realized so much. This relationship definitely wasn't healthy for me. However i'm really happy with all the lessons it taught me. Really was a great teacher. I wish her the best as-well, Im happy in a way that she came into my life. It's odd re-reading things.

[Pook075]

Do people with BPD then find a way back? I mean there's no way of 100% knowing. I accept that.

For my daughter, almost every relationship she's ever ended was reconciled at some point.  Some of the people were so incredibly bad for her (other people with BPD...they attract each other) and they'd fall out over and over and over again.  Three months later, somehow they're best friends again and I'm scratching my head trying to understand how.

In your situation, she will be back in one form or another.  Maybe it's just reaching out to say hi and see how you're doing (testing the waters).  Maybe it's running into you at a local store or coffee shop you visit often (she stalked you).  And maybe nothing comes from it.  You will likely have another chance though and you can use this time to figure out how you want to handle that.

So many here say they hate their ex's, want nothing to do with them, then they meet and it's this amazing new relationship all over again.  But it's not- it's the exact same pattern that starts off great and then takes a turn.  Then they're devastated all over again.

Why?  Because they missed the one fact you must remember- she's mentally ill.

Also though, is this even manageable? I think if I were to re-enter the relationship I would not have any expectations of it lasting long term. Instead I would almost expect that if something bad happens. It most likely means that a spiral may occur. I can then detach emotionally and prepare myself.

Here's why I shared the last part- it is manageable if you go into the relationship with your eyes wide open.  You have to understand that some days will be horrible for her, and in those moments she might start ridiculous arguments over nothing at all.  That's where you learn to communicate better and be supportive instead of just jumping into an argument.  The tips and tools sections on this site can really help you in those areas.

For example lets say I do get back into this. I'm better and smarter about it. More mature. 10 years down the road her dog dies. There's like no way I can expect that situation not to spiral. I mean reasonably so I guess, since a dog is something people attach to very hard. I just am saying that I probably can't have expectations really. It just is what it is at the end of the day?

You're correct- it could be something big like a dog passing away, or something small like a car cutting her off on the freeway.  In either case, her mind races and causes her emotions to spiral in many different directions at once.  She's scared so she reacts in what she feels is a reasonable way, which you have no idea about. 

So she's freaking out inside, you're smiling and having a great day, and she's offended that you are so rude and uncaring.

The key to a BPD relationship is realizing, "Hey, I don't know what's going on but she's not okay.  I need to comfort her emotions and avoid conflict until she's calm."  If she's down, cheer her up by talking about what's wrong.  If she's furious, help her calm down and then talk out what happened.  It's little stuff like that each day that can make a massive difference in relationships.

For my BPD daughter, we're finally in a place where she knows dad is 100% on her side and will listen without judgement.  It took until she was 24 to get there, so I failed hundreds or even thousands of times.  It is difficult to build trust, to not react to rants, etc.  But it's absolutely possible over time.

I hope that helps- I'm trying to be as transparent as possible here.

[Me88]

Awesome response Pook.

'' at your example of getting cut off in traffic causing a meltdown. I remember those days. She gets cut off, screams my head off and I hear about every single 'horrible' thing I've ever done. With mine there was no talking her down. Only thing that rarely worked was walking away. I think the person has to want to be kind and whatever 'normal' is.

[codeawsome]

I appreciate the response Pook. I think my main issue in this relationship was how I treated it because of my codependency. It wasn't necessarily her being unhealthy specifically. It's the dynamic that was created because of my playing into it from a codependent angle as-well.

I think the only way to handle this sort of relationship is like how you said "Eyes wide open". I believe that's what I would've done completely differently.

I think if she ever does come back it's something I'll consider, I'll weigh where I am in life and if it's worth it. If I can even handle it. There is a part of me that's curious how this relationship would have turned out if I had the perspective that I have now. Right now, with my head clear I think I will just keep working on myself and leave that decision to when it happens.

I think I finally understand. I've reached a sort of acceptance of it all. I'll definitely keep sharing if I have any other questions.

[Pook075]

I appreciate the response Pook. I think my main issue in this relationship was how I treated it because of my codependency. It wasn't necessarily her being unhealthy specifically. It's the dynamic that was created because of my playing into it from a codependent angle as-well.

I think the only way to handle this sort of relationship is like how you said "Eyes wide open". I believe that's what I would've done completely differently.

I think if she ever does come back it's something I'll consider, I'll weigh where I am in life and if it's worth it. If I can even handle it. There is a part of me that's curious how this relationship would have turned out if I had the perspective that I have now. Right now, with my head clear I think I will just keep working on myself and leave that decision to when it happens.

I think I finally understand. I've reached a sort of acceptance of it all. I'll definitely keep sharing if I have any other questions.

That's awesome and yeah, please keep asking tough questions...that's what everyone is here for.

At the end of the day, I remind myself of three things whenever I struggle:

1)  This is not my fault and it's not her fault either.  She's mentally ill.
2)  She never meant to hurt me and ultimately deserves compassion.
3)  She must take treatment seriously, even though it's her worst fear.

Even though this was your life, it really wasn't ever about you.  She did what she could to get through a series of challenging circumstances.  Mental health just got in the way. 

I can completely understand the codependence though and that's not a bad thing- that's why you see couples that are married for 50+ years.  All of them had reasons to divorce but they continually chose each other to work through things.  You didn't have that in your first relationship and that's so common in teens and early 20's, people aren't ready for mature relationships yet.  So remember that you didn't fail; you learned and grew as a person so you'll do better next time.