How do I l actually leave/distance myself

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

First time posting to this group/topic- I have posted in the bettering relationship post a couple times- I feel this group is more appropriate for this new development in my 2 year relationship. I live with a male borderline and we just had a baby girl 8 weeks ago. I have 2 other children who live with us full time from my previous relationship (age 5 & 8). Our baby is his first child. The relationship has reached a point where it has become intolerable for myself and my children. He isolates himself to our bedroom and I'm forced to isolate myself to the living room and sleep on the couch most nights. The bedroom is pretty much inaccessible because he's sleeping early for work. He fights with me almost daily and forces the kids to hear his rants. He is talking to other women online on dating websites and lists himself as single. He calls my children little assholes, tells them they eat too much, comments on all of their behaviors. He can't tolerate any affection between myself and my children he tells them to stop touching me or get away from me "you're not a baby". He won't allow me to spend any quality time with my children without anger and outbursts. They are so anxious they constantly ask me if he is home or not. He does not know how to parent them and while he tries he says inappropriate things and especially targets my 5 yr old whom he hates. She is the "BAD" one. He rejects me and gives me the silent treatment. He has been verbally abusive to me at times. He refuses to contribute financially in anyway and then complains that there isn't good dinner or foods he likes.

I have asked him to stay somewhere else several times now and a constant cycle repeats where he says he will leave "in a few days" but he never leaves. I have told him we are not breaking up which is true this is just a first step for me -but just physically separating. He still sees it as breaking up - must be all or nothing.  He refuses to leave and I DO NOT have anywhere else I can go- I cannot afford a hotel even for a week or a few days- I have no family support or friends and I refuse to put my children through more chaos and change in their environment. We rent our home and both our names are on the lease however I pay the rent - he has never paid any rent or portion of it. Can my property manager assist me with getting him out of the house? I feel trapped in my own home due to his uncontrollable symptoms and behaviors- my children have reached their breaking point as well.

[lisaea1523]

First time posting to this group/topic- I have posted in the bettering relationship post a couple times- I feel this group is more appropriate for this new development in my 2 year relationship. I live with a male borderline and we just had a baby girl 8 weeks ago. I have 2 other children who live with us full time from my previous relationship (age 5 & 8). Our baby is his first child. The relationship has reached a point where it has become intolerable for myself and my children. He isolates himself to our bedroom and I'm forced to isolate myself to the living room and sleep on the couch most nights. The bedroom is pretty much inaccessible because he's sleeping early for work. He fights with me almost daily and forces the kids to hear his rants. He is talking to other women online on dating websites and lists himself as single. He calls my children little assholes, tells them they eat too much, comments on all of their behaviors. He can't tolerate any affection between myself and my children he tells them to stop touching me or get away from me "you're not a baby". He won't allow me to spend any quality time with my children without anger and outbursts. They are so anxious they constantly ask me if he is home or not. He does not know how to parent them and while he tries he says inappropriate things and especially targets my 5 yr old whom he hates. She is the "BAD" one. He rejects me and gives me the silent treatment. He has been verbally abusive to me at times. He refuses to contribute financially in anyway and then complains that there isn't good dinner or foods he likes.

I have asked him to stay somewhere else several times now and a constant cycle repeats where he says he will leave "in a few days" but he never leaves. I have told him we are not breaking up which is true this is just a first step for me -but just physically separating. He still sees it as breaking up - must be all or nothing.  He refuses to leave and I DO NOT have anywhere else I can go- I cannot afford a hotel even for a week or a few days- I have no family support or friends and I refuse to put my children through more chaos and change in their environment. We rent our home and both our names are on the lease however I pay the rent - he has never paid any rent or portion of it. Can my property manager assist me with getting him out of the house? I feel trapped in my own home due to his uncontrollable symptoms and behaviors- my children have reached their breaking point as well.

[PeteWitsend]

... Can my property manager assist me with getting him out of the house? I feel trapped in my own home due to his uncontrollable symptoms and behaviors- my children have reached their breaking point as well.

First of all... this is a terrible situation, especially for your kids, and unfortunately there's probably not an easy solution. 

This might not be something it's possible to resolve anytime soon, barring an absolute meltdown by your partner that would land him in jail, or otherwise allow a judge to issue a protective order against him.

Consider breaking this into smaller steps. 

As far as getting him out of the house, if both your names are on the lease, that's not likely to happen without a legal reason (like him getting arrested for something).  He has a legal right to be there, period.  It might take a formal eviction notice being filed against him, which would take time to be resolved in court (and that amount of time would vary depending on where you live). 

If you have a decent person for a landlord, perhaps you could explain the situation to them and see if they could let you out of the lease so you could move elsewhere.  But if not, that could become problematic. 

You need to see an attorney for some legal advice.  Can you get a referral for one in your area?  You could perhaps pay for an hour consultation to get some advice on your options up front, without having to resort to a full representation (and the $5K+ retainer you'd have to put up for that). 

There also might be legal aid organizations in your area that could help you for free or refer you to someone who can help. 

You need to come up with a discreet way to document and record his abusive conduct.  Voice recorder maybe? Or hit the voice memo function on your phone whenever you're with him?  Practice doing this so it becomes easy and habitual.  Almost needless to say, emphasis on the word "discreet": when pwBPD realize they're being recorded, it escalates the problem. 

Until you can get a resolution, don't make or allow any further changes that further tie you and your children to him.  And if he pushes, you need to avoid making a decision; maybe come up with excuses if you can't find it in yourself to openly confront him. 

[Pook075]

I have asked him to stay somewhere else several times now and a constant cycle repeats where he says he will leave "in a few days" but he never leaves. I have told him we are not breaking up which is true this is just a first step for me -but just physically separating. He still sees it as breaking up - must be all or nothing.  He refuses to leave and I DO NOT have anywhere else I can go- I cannot afford a hotel even for a week or a few days- I have no family support or friends and I refuse to put my children through more chaos and change in their environment. We rent our home and both our names are on the lease however I pay the rent - he has never paid any rent or portion of it. Can my property manager assist me with getting him out of the house? I feel trapped in my own home due to his uncontrollable symptoms and behaviors- my children have reached their breaking point as well.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're in this position and while I can't relate completely (my BPD wife abruptly left me), I have been through this many times with my BPD daughter.

You are responsible for you and the kids.  He is currently in the way of that and you're living in a nightmare.  He is also responsible for himself, the kids, etc but he's not taking that responsibility seriously.  The only conclusion is that he must leave.

You mentioned that you don't want to break up.  Fine.  But that's not the point here and it's not something you should be arguing over.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He stands in the way of that and he must leave.  If he feels the relationship is over because you're throwing him out, that's his decision and he's allowed to make it.  That can't change your viewpoints though because you're responsible for three kids that he's becoming increasingly hostile towards.

I know this isn't easy advice to hear.  But I think it's the advice that you know in your heart is true and you want to hear others say it.  So that's what I'm doing- there are zero other options here.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He must leave.

So let's roleplay this out.  I'm your husband.

You tell me to leave.  I say I will eventually.  How do you reply?

Whatever you say, I use my disordered thinking to spin this back at you.  You've never loved me, you're ruining everything, you only care about the kids, etc.  What do you say to that?

Here's where these arguments always spin out of control.  He's going to fight emotionally while you're just trying to say the obvious- he can't be there anymore.  The kids are scared and you're beyond frustrated.  So if this is the path the conversation goes, you dial 9-1-1 and say your children don't feel safe with him in the house.

The police will arrive and ask him to leave.  He probably will, and the relationship will be all but over.  He will be furious as well.  But at least this starts a paper trail and he realizes that you're not playing.  Maybe he leaves you...which is fine at this point because that's the whole goal here.  Just to get him to physically leave.  If you want to try to salvage things later, that's still on the table.

Again, I know this is ugly.  I hate writing it just as much as you hate reading it.  But I'll say it one more time, you're responsible for you and the three kids.  Something must change and you're the only one who can change it.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi lisaea1523 ,

Yes, at this point, I'm afraid that living together will just make things worse. You both need to have your time and space. The behaviors you described are way too far from acceptable. You need to bring peace for yourself and for the kids. After you split and go for shared custody, maybe he can be a good father, if he wants, but not in the current setting with you around.

All advice given by PeteWitsend is pretty good. However, I think things are not so difficult.

You are in the best situation you could be: you are living in a rented house. That makes things much easier. If the rental agreement is a month-to-month payment contract, you can end the lease unilaterally with 30-day notice. Then everyone will be forced out, and then you'll move to another place. In case he wants to assume the lease by himself, and he notifies the landlord about that, then it's fine. Good luck to him with that.

For the kids, it will be shared custody. If you think he could get aggressive with your decision, then try to install some security cameras in your place before you start, or at least use your cell phone in your pocket to record the conversations. Because you may have to use them later.

Hopefully, you won't need any lawyer or help with domestic violence. If you both still love each other, then there is a chance that you may reach an agreement. But in any case you must be prepared for the worst.

For all the legal advice, if you are lost, you can chat with artificial intelligence first, such as ChatGPT, just to get some clarity. You'll be surprised with their knowledge. That won't replace a lawyer in any way, and you must double-check any statement that's critical for your decision, but it will save you a lot of time anyway.

I'm in a similar situation because I live in a rented apartment, and I was moving out because of my wife's crazy behavior, but then she finally agreed to leave herself. If we succeed in maintaining a healthy relationship while not living together, then that could be a wake-up call for her to stop the crazy stuff and start doing DBT. The best outcome would be that I could bring her back after many months or a few years. But I'm prepared for the worst, which in my case would be the end of the relationship and the deterioration of her mental health due to her own choices. I think that being prepared for the worst is a healthy mentality.

You may also consider the possibility of moving out to a flat/hotel that you can just pay per use. I mean paying per day or per month, without the need to sign a long-term contract. Meanwhile, he would have time to decide whether to assume the lease by himself or leave the house. But don't tell him you are going to a temporary place because then he will just wait for you to return.

[SuperDaddy]

Now that I saw Pook075's response, I'll open a parenthesis.

I don't think you can call for police and just say that your children don't feel safe with him in the house, because such a statement doesn't indicate that a crime has occurred or is about to occur. Calling police should really be only the last resort. If you can avoid the conflict by leaving the house, that's preferred.

My wife just left our rented house today. I am trying to make sure she feels loved while leaving, because I want to promote the best possible outcome. I have been asking for her to leave for more than one year, and she refused until I was really about to leave myself.

What does that say about the BPD partner? It says that their nonsensical arguments and behavior only happen within certain bounds, while they still think there is room to behave like that. But once they hit a wall, they begin to be reasonable and act rationally. For my wife, the wall was the fear of being removed from our rented place by the police, who would be called by the landlord after I ended the renting contract.

So yes, you should be ready to call the police if needed and do it the hard way, but unless you are at risk of a life-threatening situation, you should first try to make your husband run out of options (hit a wall) so he can cooperate with some sort of separation (something temporary at least). I say that because cooperation is always preferred, even more so because you don't want to break up the relationship.

[Pook075]

I don't think you can call for police and just say that your children don't feel safe with him in the house, because such a statement doesn't indicate that a crime has occurred or is about to occur.

There's a magic phrase in the mental health world.  It's, "<The mentally ill person> is a danger to himself or others." 

You say that to the police, to someone at a hospital, to a paramedic, to a judge, to literally anyone with any ties to the government, and it is now their problem.  If they hear that phrase and do not render immediate aid, they are personally responsible.

A similar phrase is, "<Someone in the home> does not feel safe around <the BPD person>."

Police might ask why don't they feel safe, but it's a question that doesn't have to be directly answered (or can be answered with the first statement).  Or it can be answered more directly, "They're angry and unstable, I don't know what they'll do."

You mentioned that police should only be used in an emergency, but when someone is raging in your home and they're unstable, that is a mental health emergency.  Documenting it is the fastest way to getting them the help they need.

In many cases, the disordered person completely changes when the police arrive.  And you might say, what was the point if that's what happens?  Well, that was the goal to begin with, to ask them to leave without harassment or violence.  Your local police will tell you to call 10 times out of 10 in that situation.

[lisaea1523]

You need to see an attorney for some legal advice.  Can you get a referral for one in your area?

I have an excellent attorney that has helped me with my previous divorce, custody which was a worse more dangerous situation than this one. I am very familiar with the process and how to prepare and gather evidence.

You need to come up with a discreet way to document and record his abusive conduct.  Voice recorder maybe? Or hit the voice memo function on your phone whenever you're with him?  Practice doing this so it becomes easy and habitual.  Almost needless to say, emphasis on the word "discreet": when pwBPD realize they're being recorded, it escalates the problem. 

I have recorded some of his verbal abuse and have it saved in a secure folder on my phone. He saw some of the recordings- his response was more hurt and distrust than anger. He seems very ashamed about these behaviors and doesn't want anyone else to know. :-(

[lisaea1523]

I know this isn't easy advice to hear.  But I think it's the advice that you know in your heart is true and you want to hear others say it.  So that's what I'm doing- there are zero other options here.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He must leave.

I appreciate your direct and supportive feedback , you're a great example of balancing direct communication and validating the difficult emotions- disappointment, fear, sadness

[GaGrl]

It could be a great help to call your local domestic abuse hotline. Emotional abuse is abuse, and he is emotionally abusing those children. They are afraid of him, and they are being traumatized.

The well-trained people on the domestic abuse hotline can help with clarifying what your options are, the best way to separate him from the household safely, housing options, etc.

I urge you to talk to them.

[ForeverDad]

Documenting it is the fastest way to getting them the help they need...

In many cases, the disordered person completely changes when the police arrive.

I will share my own experience the first time I called the police.  Yes, involving the police and the legal system did raise the level of conflict to a new level, but we were already heading that direction anyway, my goal was to change the dynamic enough that I had some say in how the future progressed.

It was a Sunday morning and my then-spouse was freaking out quite angry with me.  She hated the perception of being late, even if we weren't late.  I was almost ready to leave, putting on our preschooler's shoes, when she stormed out and drove away.  I'm sure she expected us to follow and join her at the congregation but I didn't.

By then - this was 20 years ago - I had had obtained a digital voice recorder, quite primitive from today's perspective.  Even in the discombobulated state I was in due to her increasing rants and rages, in the previous months I had managed to get a few rants and rages recorded.

I now describe it as "I recorded myself so I could prove I wasn't the one behaving poorly.  If my partner happened to be aggressive and raging, well, that would be her worry, not mine."  (I add this since we here are so worried that recording the other person might get us arrested for violating privacy laws.  That can't happen if we're recording illegal or abusive behavior.  I've been here 20 years and the only time our members got into trouble and ordered not to record - not even a handful of cases - was when the conflict didn't stop and finally the court said not to record the children.  The court wanted to protect the children, it wasn't the privacy issue of whether to record.)

Back to my Sunday afternoon... When she returned she was in a foul mood.  When it got particularly bad, I turned on my recorder.  I even recorded my own emergency phone call.  She grabbed the phone and ended the call, threatening IWKY.  (That alone, blocking someone from calling for help, is against the law in many jurisdictions.  My court ignored it.)

Well, two officers arrived, one was in a canine unit.  I was holding our son in my arms in the front yard and I distracted him with the dog barking in the vehicle.  I assume the dispatcher didn't tell them who made the initial call since they spoke with my spouse first and even gave her a DV pamphlet.  (That's a consequence of assuming women are always the victim, thank you "Violence Against Women Act".  The fact is that aggression is not always owned by one gender.)

So one officer spoke to me and instructed me to hand our preschooler over to her and "step away".  He shrieked and clung tighter to me instead.  He saved me that day.  (My divorce lawyer, a former policeman, later told me it was policy that the parties were always separated on domestic dispute calls and he was surprised I wasn't carted off.)  The officer looked at me for a long moment, said "work it out" and they left.

Although she was still angry and red-faced, I'm sure she had calmed down enough to tell them how horrible I was.  Why didn't I use my recording right then?  Well, the speaker didn't work and I needed a computer to download the voice file.  Later in the week another officer did return and I played the audio.  I filed a report and she was arrested for Threat of DV.  Her case was eventually dismissed since she did not have a weapon in her hands but by then, though I was initially unprepared, I had filed for divorce.

In summary, I quote the two sentences above because (1) I did document the abuse, the recording being my 'witness', and (2) by the time the officers arrived my spouse was posing as an angry victim and able to deny that she was the perp and I didn't have immediate proof otherwise.

[Pook075]

I will share my own experience the first time I called the police. 

My experiences varied since I ultimately called several times over a ten year span from two different residences (in different cities).  Sometimes the police came out, the BPD played the victim, and they left without doing anything.

Guess what though, the abusive behavior stopped and that was the goal.  Other times it escalated after law enforcement left, and my BPD decided to leave as well (after screaming at me).  One time I decided to leave instead.  But again, mission accomplished.

Several other times, my BPD became enraged that the police or ambulance arrived and they got to see quite a show.  Those times, she was placed on an involuntary psych hold.  A few of those times there was admittance to a psych facility afterwards as well.

Did it "fix everything"?  No.  But this also built a paper trail while enforcing that abusing others in my home is not okay.  It became very clear that if you hit me, I'm dialing 9-1-1.  If you're screaming and breaking things, I'm calling 9-1-1.  If you threaten me, I'm calling 9-1-1.  And guess what....that stuff stopped completely.

There were still some fierce arguments at times, but I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking about the stuff that goes beyond the typical argument.

[lisaea1523]

I have spoken to him with effective communication via text-  texting is much better than trying to talk in person. I told him his options that either he can sign himself off the lease and I will stay here OR I will sign off with his approval and will move somewhere else. I told him if either of these options do not work I will have to get a no contact order. I spoke with my property manager and notified her of the situation which was very difficult and embarrassing for me BUT I did that today. He has agreed to sign himself off of the lease. He says he will leave tmrw -he's continuing to push it off until other time and always has excuses. I will continue to enforce these boundaries and be very specific- letting him know that if he does not leave and execute one of our 2 options I will get a no contact order. He continues to distance himself completely with minimal contact. He is protecting himself from my vulnerable state which scares him. This is why this is so difficult it just breaks my heart :-( He's just NOT capable in so many ways- he doesn't have the skills or the insight - it's just not there