Just got married & found out her extreme doubt was BPD, Should I stay or leave?

[CrimsonBlue]

It was a fantastic life and she made me feel 7 feet tall until it was that one event. I thought of it as just a small insecurity and I re-assured her that I am hers and hers forever. I had already proposed by then. She agreed but I was a bit surprised to see this amount of anger in her. I anyway processed it and eventually we got married. Somehow we have still not been able to get over this one issue. I find her lack of trust making me feel super constricted in life. Its like if I even look in the direction of a woman walking, she has issue. We have had massive fights over this and I have been trying to make her really see that I am committed to her and her only, yet somehow she fails to understand. She would doubt me from a credit card woman calling and asking for a review, to me holding my sister's hand when I meet her. I am able to see that she's insecure about me going cheating on her but there has to be trust. Quiet honestly, I am man of my word and would never do something like that which is why I committed to her and got married. I have no plans to pursue more relationships. All I wanted was to have a baby and just give my family a comfortable life.

The fights have really left me drained. I literally feel like I have to explain everything to a toddler and at the end of the argument when she does feel calm, I end up super exhausted. In fact it has changed me as a person where I have to change my lifestyle and my social life so those events don't occur so there would be no conflict.
I have actually doubted myself sometimes if I really have a problem of looking towards other woman a bit too much, but I confirmed it from my own family and my lifetime friends and they say otherwise.

We just conceived as well and don't even get me started on how the hell that happened because honestly, I don't know. We didn't really plan but she kind of manipulated me into believing that we have to have a baby some day and people try for pretty long so lets just do it. Internally, I wanted to wait for a year after marriage and travel before I get to the baby planning. Somehow she almost tricked me into it. I look stupid saying this and I know it is my responsibility as well which I agree with but I am shocked how blinded I was. Also, my reaction to that wasn't all happy, internally I just wanted to wait up, it felt too soon.

Anyway, the fights were messy and I was shocked to hear verbal abuse toward me. I remember contacting my friends to feel if all this is normal or not just to confirm if I am making a big deal out of it. I wanted to think it was just anger and an outburst. She did apologise for it later when she was calm but all of it led me to think that I am loosing myself. I have so less motivation, work wise I started to struggle, which has never been the case. I am 33 and she's 30. In India families live together so she stays with me and my mom, we have a fairly big house and we have all the house helps, cooks and servants and maids for all our home chores.

The last fight was about she feeling I have not been giving her enough time which I proved her wrong and I did not apologise, however, I did tell her, if you feel this way, I will make amends and give even more time thinking it would stop the argument, but it did not. She wanted me to admit that I have been given her less time and to apologise for it which I did not. Not this time. And the argument didn't stop until the morning. She took the fight to my mom as well and then her in laws got involved and we decided to take a few days apart.
In these few days apart, I really thought that she would think through and would realise her part and understand, but in fact she accused me to not understanding her. My family knows all this and asked me to take a divorce. They told me that they see a very negative change in me already and it would just not stop and that I will shrink slowly. I don't think that they are wrong. But should I give her another chance? Now, that I know that she has BPD. Will I be able to develop a thicker skin for her arguments and fights or will it make me shrink even though I know it.

[ForeverDad]

Welcome to BPDFamily, though of course we wish it were for a different, more positive reason.

The jealousy your wife has of you encountering other women even in family and other brief normal-life scenarios is not an uncommon experience with persons having BPD traits.  I experienced this too when my ex-wife was triggered without any logical reason.  And yes, there were many late night rants and rages that continued almost without end deep into the night without resolving anything.

As I started reading your story, my first thought was to suggest you not decide to have children until you were confident the marriage had started a healthy and functional path, but that's a bit too late.  Pregnancy and children make ending a marriage, should that be your decision, vastly more complicated due to the custody and parenting issues involved.

Your wife clearly has some deep trust issues that logical reasoning doesn't overcome.  We have found that logical approaches to conversations (JADE = Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) typically doesn't work when the other person is deeply emotionally triggered.

We sometimes talk of BPD "FOG" (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and it could be that she wanted children quickly so you would feel more "obligated" to the marriage once you have children.

Meanwhile, feel free to read our forums here and interact with others who have similarly felt the impact of BPD.  We have a wealth of hard-won collective wisdom, practical strategies and peer support in our various forums.

One option... Would your spouse be receptive to the concept of joining you in marital counseling?  Then the counselor could recommend she also get separate therapy?  (She might reject the idea if you suggested it since she probably has difficulty listening to you without the emotional baggage of the relationship getting in the way and triggering her even more.  An emotionally neutral professional may get a better response.)

Whether to divorce or not is a serious matter.  Likely you will find that your decision will be largely impacted by whether your wife chooses to overcome her fears and trust you.

[Mutt]

Welcome. That sounds exhausting.

What I think is important to me is not just the jealousy, but the length of the arguments and how much you are shrinking yourself to avoid them. That can be draining.

Just because there is a name doesn’t mean the behavior will change. What is usually important is whether the individual is willing to accept responsibility and seek assistance.

You don’t have to make a decision about staying or going today. It might be helpful for you to consider: Could you live like this if nothing changed?

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're struggling and so much of this comes down to communication style and validating feelings.  BPDs need a lot more validation, through words and actions, because they're mentally ill.

Let that sink in for a moment.  She's not angry/mean because she wants to be.  She's not doing it to hurt you.  She's doing it because she's mentally ill and lets her emotions get the best of her.

IThe last fight was about she feeling I have not been giving her enough time which I proved her wrong and I did not apologise, however, I did tell her, if you feel this way, I will make amends and give even more time thinking it would stop the argument, but it did not.

Take a look at the bolded parts above to get a feel for what I mean.

You identified that this was about "her feelings".  Feelings are tied to BPD, to mental illness.  And when those feelings start going sideways, we can either be supportive to level out those feelings, or we can be combative and make things 1,000 times worse. 

Because here's the thing, all your wife was saying in that argument was, "I wish I had more time with you."  Now, that's not what she actually said, but that's probably what she meant.  Again, mental illness got in the way of her being truly vulnerable.

In other words, she had "out of control feelings".

However, you said that you "proved her wrong."  That's impossible...you can't prove anyone's feelings wrong.  Feelings are real and they're always 100% true.  If you're sad, it doesn't matter why you're sad...it's a fact that you're sad regardless.  And the only way that changes is if you find a reason to be happy (or any feeling other than sadness).

So in this particular argument, your wife is trying to say, "I'm lonely".  Yet you proved to her that she gets plenty of attention already.  How do you think that made her feel?  Again, this is about feelings...and feelings are always true.  How would you feel if you told a friend or family member that you're lonely and they said, "No you're not and I can prove it!"

That's just not how feelings work.

I'm not saying any of this to judge you because we all get this wrong so often.  Hopefully you can see that it takes a different way to communicate when it comes to FEELINGS.  Because that's what BPD is, it's intense unstable feelings.

If your BPD wife says she feels lonely, neglected, or anything similar, you hug her and say that you want to spend some time with her now.  Then you can skip the argument and focus on what really matters, helping her change her feelings in the moment.  I hope that helps to get you started.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi CrimsonBlue, and welcome. Nice to have someone from India here. I'm curious to know if your marriage was arranged. But anyways, let's go to what matters.

I fully agree with Pook075, and his advice is excellent.

However, there is another side of the story. People with BPD have conflict-seeking behavior, and over years it becomes clear that they get something out of it, even though they seem to be in such a poor state during their rants. And based on a theory proposed in detail in 2010, they do it due to an unconscious quest to stimulate their natural opioid system.

While feeling lonely and wanting more time with you is logical, accusing you of cheating with your eyes and being jealous of your sister is not logical at all. If she got angry but remained quiet, it would be just a cognitive distortion, but if she uses it to initiate a fight/argument, then this is conflict-seeking behavior. The entire point is to get you to defend and argue with her. When she first had this problem, before you married, she was unconsciously testing your reactions, because she already expected you to "process it."

My final answer is no, you won't be able to develop a thicker skin for her arguments and fights. It will make your shrink even more. Because once you completely resolve a problem, another will emerge.

My advice is that you should try a living apart together relationship so that you can take control of your well-being and let her know that you'll only move back together if she succeeds in recovering from the disorder (which can take many years). If that's not possible, then you would have to follow the advice of your family (divorce).

[CrimsonBlue]

Thank you so much for your response, I feel surprised that I would receive replies to this post so soon and also feel supported and seen.

Update on what happened lately is that our family went to their home where I went ahead and told their family everything and what the issues have been. I spoke for about an hour telling about the events and anger and outbursts. The focus was primarily on this extreme doubt and how it made me feel. They took it well and so did she and did not deny anything. In the end my wife said she was sorry that I was hurt and asked me what I want to do, do I want to continue or not. She also said that I should not feel constricted by the pregnancy and that we're both fairly young and not in our 40s or 50s that it would be too hard for us to find new partners.
This statement made me feel that has she already moved on. She's giving me a very less resistant path to exit because if I were her and I had realized my mistakes I would have felt really guilty for hurting my partner and would weep and apologize in the front of the whole world.


Some replies-

Yes, SuperDaddy, it was an arranged marriage where we found each other over a matrimony app. Parents got involved when we both felt right which was about 3 months in the relationship and we got married in about 6 months from the date of our first ever date. Also, you mentioned that your answer is no and that I would not be able to develop a thicker skin if nothing changed. This hits hard because I have gathered some knowledge around BPD and I thought I would be able to understand her better and where is she might be coming from.

Nevertheless, it has become complicated because of the pregnancy and she's 9 weeks in right now. My family has suggested that we can take care of the child according to the laws and that I can also even co-parent which is all complicated but continuing a life like this with her would be almost an injustice to my boundaries and livelihood.

The thing is she is a fantastic, kind and a very smart person. Before the first ever episode I felt that she had more empathy than any human being I ever met. But after going through a rollercoaster in the first 4 months of my marriage, I never saw that person again, it was just unpredictable moods and left me feeling anxious about every move I made in my home.

Mutt suggested me to consider: Could you live like this if nothing changed? My answer is - No. It was a super hard life of constantly feeling tied and a feeling of not being able to express myself freely.

Pook075 nails it perfectly about how feelings are valid and can't be "proved wrong" and it is my who will have to understand the real meaning behind what she says. Also, after really understanding BPD and the base feelings they operate with - constant fear of abandonment, a part me of me feels I should try again.

At the end I feel in the middle where on one side - I loved her and married her and then discovered that our conflicts happened because of an underlying disorder, so I should be with her.
On the other side - I should save myself and not live a constricted life.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi again CrimsonBlue,

Oh, so I see she is pregnant. You said she had *almost* tricked you, so I thought she wasn't. Anyways, have you made a decision already?

I understand we feel responsible for a partner in their bad times as well. However, if they already knew of the disorder before getting you engaged, or at least they knew the traits, they should have alerted you about it. Failing to do so is trying to deceive you. Because having a stable relationship is the one most unlikely thing to happen when you have a BPD partner.

Someone with BPD should not live together with an intimate partner nor have kids before they get a handle on their BPD symptoms, at least. First, they should seek to get remission of the symptoms by attending specialized therapy (such as DBT), but that can take many years.

Possibly what went wrong may have been the marriage app, which disrupted your normal cultural process of engagement since your parents didn't know each other so well. The timeline was too short, but anyway this is what usually happens when you find a partner with BPD.

In fact, I met 3 of my 4 long-term partners over the internet, but now I see that through an app it is impossible to find a great female partner who is free of disorders. Because the app only serves women that are having trouble in the real world for some reason. Most of them aren't pretty enough, but when they are, the catch is their mental health.

Having said that, now it comes down to how much you like her and how you feel with her. You said she had made you feel "7 feet tall" in the beginning, but I'm not sure if you should take that into account since you were in the idealization stage of the relationship. Yet, if you really feel like she is the love of your life, then perhaps you could try what I'm doing now: living apart while still maintaining the relationship while waiting for her to seek treatment. Though I'm not sure if that fits your cultural values.

In the case of my current wife, she is way more interesting than all of my previous long-term partners (all of them had psychiatric disorders as well). At almost 6 feet tall, she is the tallest, and yet she has the most delicate body and personality. She is the funniest and most caring one with the kids and stepkids as well. Also, she has the best character (taking aside the stuff she says when dysregulated). Most importantly, she is the only one that really worries about me. In practical terms, this means that behind the disorder hides the love of my life. On top of that, she didn't know she had BPD when I first met her, but she didn't hide from me the little that she already knew about herself.

Today she is here in my place, and everything is going fine, but I'll have to ask her to leave today as we agreed, before anything goes wrong again.

Waiting to know about your outcome.

[CrimsonBlue]

Hi SuperDaddy, thank you for your reply.

I am not sure if she had any issue before we got married and neither did she ever state that she has any anger issue or any fear of abandonment, these things are hard to put a finger on. She did mentioned that she was in therapy for a bit when she lost her mother in Covid but it did not raise any eyebrows for me and felt only fair. I am also not sure that she must have purposely deceived me, I think she was honest in our meetings. But I can give this one a benefit of doubt. All I knew was that she had two best friends, a male and a female but they had never met each other and in fact did not like either's mention in their conversations.

What affects me the most is that when I try to remember those times when we did used to argue and fight about any of her doubt which would just come out of nowhere, (eg. we going for shopping and I glance toward a woman which would make her insecure and she would suddenly just change her face and leave my hand abruptly and rush super fast to exit the location) later when she's a bit regulated usually after my forced admittance and apology, she would still never really empathize with me. I would end up feeling drained because of the disproportionate amount of apology I had to give for something I considered wasn't wrong to begin with.

I remember she would be super empathetic in the idealization phase in the relationship when I did share some of my deeper fears and events but I saw a lack of that post marriage.

I really wanted to be seen by her but I always felt unseen and unheard. When she was regulated, I would start to tell her how I felt post fight and would tell her about the degree of apology and just really express myself and all I received was either another argument or just a colder reply to it.

Another noteworthy item was that somehow we would end up just doing stuff she liked, she loved horror and we'd only watch that, she'd make me listen to dark music themes and we'd only hear those in the car. I remember that I asked her once to hear my music or watch a show of my liking but somehow we never did that. She would either sleep in the car or would take out her phone if we watch a show of my liking. I would also make plans to hear a podcast on couples conflicts or just relationship advice but she never made it important enough. I would feel a bit rejected but I guess I was only thanking that at least she's not dysregulated. My boundary setting here is really a huge issue and I am aware of it.

I read the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" and understood that I have this caretaker characteristic called "Protesting Colluder" which is defined in the book as: "You may never have been a Caretaker in other relationships, but you find yourself feeling guilty and responsible for this partner. Your high level of loyalty and logic keep you determined to work on this relationship until you get it right."

With this knowledge now, I feel that the characteristics we both have would always end up with an unstable family unless we both do a lot of therapy and then maybe in years to come things get better. I never had an issue ever in my prior relationships which makes me think that this one is bringing out my characteristics a bit too much are getting misused.

What I need to learn is that I need to create proper boundaries and what she needs to work on is her fear of abandonment and internal emptiness feeling which she fills with impulsive behaviors.

I have decided for separation and will be doing so today with family.

[Pook075]

What I need to learn is that I need to create proper boundaries and what she needs to work on is her fear of abandonment and internal emptiness feeling which she fills with impulsive behaviors.

I have decided for separation and will be doing so today with family.

I am sorry that you've chosen to separate and what it means for your family- it's never easy.

For your partner to work on her abandonment issues and internal emptiness, she must want to actively change.  If she's not ready to put in the work, then no amount of pushing her will make any difference and she will come to resent you for it.  So don't push too hard- let her come to that conclusion on her own in time.

I wish you luck and please keep us updated on your progress.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi CrimsonBlue, I'm also sorry that you will have to go through this and then deal with the baby while not being with her anymore.

Are you going directly into a divorce, or will it be a separation followed by therapy? I'm asking this because you said "unless we both do a lot of therapy and then maybe in years to come things get better".

You said she didn't show empathy for you. People with BPD tend to be self-centered in the relationship because they are so focused on their own feelings, which are too strong, but that should only happen when they are in high alert or dysregulated. Also, whenever you express your pain, if the reasons for your pain are in any way related to her, you should not expect her to support you, because she will feel invalidated and judged, so the conversation will go wrong. However, when whatever you express is unrelated to her, then the disorders should not be a stopper. Actually, pwBPD are more sensible, and therefore they tend to be much more empathic (given that the issue is unrelated to them).

When you apologized for some nonsensical jealousy of hers, this was actually making things worse, because with that you validated the invalid. We must only validate their feelings and whatever they say that is valid, but not their distorted perceptions. When you apologized, for her this felt like a confession of your "obscene intentions."

Doing just things of her choice must have felt really bad. I have not experienced that in my relationships, but I guess it's because you were trying hard to make things work. Your understanding that your characteristics are being misused seems quite right and is a clever perception of yours.