My wife has BPD and/or Complex PTSD

[SingaporeHusband]

 

Hello everyone.  I'm in my early 60s, with two daughters, 24 and 17, and live in Singapore as an expat. The 17-year-old lives with us and is in grade 11.  I have been married for 27 years and our relationship has long been tumultuous, starting even before we got married.  We share many of the same interests -- enjoying travel, the arts, food -- which has made for a great life together. But it has also been a life punctuated by blow-ups associated with my wife's relationships with other people, often me but other times one of our daughters, my wife's sister or brother-in-law, someone in my family, my daughter's boyfriend, a co-worker, or others. As such she has few friends (one best friend in another country who she sees only once every few years) and poor relationships with most people (including her estranged sister, with whom she had a huge falling out a few years ago). She is a well-educated and bright lawyer but has had difficulties holding down a job due to difficult relationships with bosses and co-workers. In one case, her company thought highly enough of her to ask her to see (and pay for) a counsellor. She was fired from two other jobs before deciding to become a stay-at-home mother when our older daughter was a toddler.  She has not had a paid job since but instead (and with a full time live-in helper to do most household things) has pursued a succession of passion projects, including real estate investments, where she bought rental properties and then neglected them, art investments, where she bought a large number of paintings by young artists in Asia and then neglected their care, and most recently religion (she attends services and bible study groups at two different churches locally), and humanitarian aid, where she has essentially become a free-lance non-profit in Thailand, dispensing medicine, equipment and money to displaced persons from Myanmar living in Thailand.  Altogether an Interesting Person, but with significant interpersonal issues, including with me and our daughters. 

We have had couples counselling over the years and each of us individual counselling too.  That has been somewhat helpful but has not prevented blow ups.  Visits home to see family have been particular triggers, with jetlag exacerbating dysregulated behaviour.

My wife has had an ill-defined fatigue issue for over twenty years, which means that (episodically) she will stay in bed for days at a time. She attributes this to pre-diabetes but yet she finds energy when she needs to travel to Thailand and pursue other passion projects. But the fatigue has been a longstanding excuse for her not to do other more mundane things, including tending to "ex" passion projects like our rental properties and our art collection, and supporting our teenager's needs. 

Starting in 2018, I started to get fed up. Fed up with the blow-ups, including a DRAMATIC one during Christmas 2018 with my wife's sister while we were visiting her family in Australia, which included things like my wife threatening to call the police alleging that her sister had kidnapped our kids and a nasty one with my older daughter during Christmas 2019, the details of which I don't even remember.  Fed up with my wife not trying to address her fatigue issues, and at the same time using it as an excuse for staying in bed a lot and not pulling her weight around the house, at the same time as finding energy to do the things she wants to do. I tried to reengage her in couples therapy, unsuccessfully. I continued therapy myself, and came to the conclusion with the therapist that I needed to change things up to get her to focus on the seriousness of our relationship issues, so I asked for a same roof separation while we worked through a couple's therapeutic process.  She refused to engage and further withdrew.  Things got steadily worse after the separation, and we find ourselves where we are now, three years later, trying to negotiate a divorce, where my wife accepts that the relationship is over (and has a new relationship, which has become her new passion project) but is unwilling to work with me to decouple in an orderly fashion. Discussions about living arrangements for our daughter and other aspects of the inevitable divorce have become acrimonious. It feels like we are in a death spiral. I've hired a lawyer and I've urged her to do the same so some of the more emotive issues can be addressed more dispassionately, but she seems much more interested to fight.

Why have a joined this group?  In the course of couples therapy a couple of years ago, the therapist diagnosed my wife as having ASD. My wife kind of loves the diagnosis, using it often as an excuse for making insensitive comments. And ASD does explain relationship difficulties she has had in the workplace and elsewhere. But ASD does not seem to explain the frequent blow-ups and dysregulation. My wife's sister, who is a family doctor, believes my wife has BPD and this tracks for me. Our (now former) couples therapist feels C-PTSD is a better label but had not completed a formal diagnosis.

Whatever the label, my wife is getting more and more difficult to deal with, including in relation to the divorce.  Over new years, she went on a holiday with our two daughters and our older daughter's boyfriend (BF).   Tensions mounted and BF's efforts to peace-make led him to be targeted in a blow up that has meant he does not want to deal with my wife anymore and has caused my daughter to minimize contact with my wife.  Then as in many other instances in the past, I tried to peace make and was accused of manipulating the kids and being the root of the problems with her relationship with the girls and BF. 

I've enabled my wife's behaviour over the years.  Unintentionally, when my wife says really awful things to the girls when she is dysregulated, I've been her apologist. I've said things like "Mum didn't really mean that she wishes you weren't born. She loves you very much but sometimes just can't control what she says. Don't think too much about it" when I should have said "Wow, what Mum said is not OK at all and that is not what people who love each other should ever say. That must have hurt you really deeply. Let's talk about how it made you feel."   My wife's sister thinks, and having read up on it I agree, that my wife and I have a co-dependent relationship. 

I want to try to understand the dynamics better so that I can more effectively chart a path to a divorce that isn't scorched earth. My wife at the moment seems intent on making it acrimonious and over my pleas to hand things off to lawyers has refused to do so. 

I want to extricate myself more fully from the complexities of my wife's relationship with our daughters, but at the same time leaving them with tools and resources to navigate them effectively themselves. 

And I'd like to figure out if there is room for a functional and caring relationship with my wife in future, after the divorce. I'd like that and have told my daughters that I am trying to lay the foundations for it. However, our 30-year Jekyll & Hyde relationship is mostly now only Hyde. She abruptly has a new and very serious relationship, the latest reason for her to neglect our kid. She idealizes him and I am more than ever the root of all things that are wrong with her life and in the world.

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm a Philippines husband and currently living there, so I can relate to that part of your story.  My American BPD ex-wife allows me to relate to everything else and it's a big reason why I'm on the opposite side of the world.

One thing that jumped out to me immediately is your wife's "illness" that keeps her in bed for days at a time.  My ex did exactly the same thing and it was labeled as chronic depression.  We can dress it up and blame it on all sorts of things, but at the root it is mental illness and genuine struggling.

Why do the pet projects get her out of bed?  It's exciting, it's new, it's fun and adventurous.  Plus, it's a great way to run from your problems....just go do something else instead.  All of this aligns to my experiences as well almost exactly.

I noticed that you posted in the "Conflicted" board, even though you're openly in divorce talks.  If you could overcome the negative aspects of the marriage and get a portion of what you had 20+ years ago, would you still leave?  I'm asking because it's possible....although super hard for both of you to get there.

Please tell us about some of the deciding factors (from your perspective) on what it would take to stay or go.

[CC43]

Hi there,

What jumps out at me in your post is your wife's blow-ups during holiday get-togethers.  That right there has BPD written all over it.  I've noticed on these boards that holidays, family reunions and other joyous occasions such as weddings are typically the backdrop for major BPD meltdowns.  I think it's because stress and unmet expectations are huge triggers for pwBPD.  I also think that it's extremely difficult for a pwBPD to be happy for other people, when they are not happy themselves.  Seeing other happy people induces feelings of jealousy, alienation, inferiority, being slighted, not being the center of attention, whatever.  Cue the meltdown.

Another clue is the that your wife spends inordinate time in bed, and yet she can "pull herself together" when she wants to, especially for fun trips.  My adult BPD stepdaughter will do the exact same thing.  Does she complain of aches and pains whenever there's work to do, but she's magically cured whenever there's an opportunity do something fun later in the day?  Classic.  One thing I notice with BPD is over-sensitivity to minor ailments and very little distress tolerance.  Minor things like waking up in the morning appear to be major ordeals for pwBPD, EXCEPT when there's something they want to do.  Then getting out of bed is a non-issue.  I suspect that when they have nothing better to think about, they retreat in a negative thinking loop (I'm so TIRED, life is so HARD, my body HURTS, I can't DO this, I don't WANT to, it's UNFAIR, etc.).  And then the pernicious BPD twisted thinking takes over (my family is toxic, I'm traumatized, life is hopeless, I have no future, I can't take this anymore).  Ergo, they stay in bed, and it's actually fun, because they have phones to entertain them, and they get out of working.  The grand irony is that pwBPD RESENT their family for making them feel so dependent.  They hate you while holding out their hand for more money/support.  To me, that is 100% BPD.  Sure, a physical ailment can make somebody irritable, moody, perhaps unable to take on some responsibilities.  But hating and blaming people who go above and beyond to help?  That sounds like BPD to me.

The other clue to BPD in my opinion is an unstable identity.  Now I might be reading too much into your post, but I've noticed that "trying out" new identies has been a feature of the pwBPD in my life.  One month she announces she's an artist.  Another month she'll change her looks (e.g. dying her hair and buying new styles of clothes).  Another month she wants to pursue a new career.  Of course, all these things are normal, but it's just that with BPD, I think the "idea" of a new identity is more attractive than the implementation.  She'll glorify the positive aspects while underestimating the work behind it.  The second she starts the work, she realizes her vision isn't what it's cracked up to be.  She tends to quit as soon as she encounters an obstacle, and she tends to be devastated because she can't achieve the idealized identity she envisioned for herself, and then she gets depressed because she can't figure out who she is.  This is hard to explain, but my point is, she seems to have a lot of identity confusion.  She's full of aspirational intentions (some narcissistic and others "delusional"), but fails on the execution, seemingly over and over again.  Does that ring any bells?  That has been a feature of the pwBPD in my life.

Look, BPD is treatable, provided that your spouse is committed to therapy and wants to make hard changes to feel better.  But since it appears your wife has had a lifetime of untreated BPD, I'm not sure if she's well-placed to learn better social-emotional  skills.  And she probably "likes" alternative diagnoses, as they are excuses to maintain the status quo.  She's probably content enough with her situation, which obviates the need to get therapy.  On these boards you might see that pwBPD typically need to "hit bottom" before they decide to get professional help and take therapy seriously.

I guess the summary is that if your wife isn't ready to change, the only person who can change is you.  On these boards you'll find all sorts of tips, which start with self-care and boundaries.

All the best to you.

[CC43]

P.S.

Since you posted on the "conflicted" board, it appeared that you are considering whether or not to try to make the relationship work.  However if you're committed to separating, I'd offer some advice, based on experiences in my family trying to "negotiate" with a spouse with a personality disorder.  In short, my advice is, you have to expect non-cooperation.  If your spouse was unreasonable and unhelpful in the past, divorce will only make things worse.  "Normal" people can negotiate in good faith, and while they'll try to get a good deal, I think they generally fulfill their obligations once an agreement has been reached.  In addition, for "normal" people, I think it's realistic to reach some sort of agreement in a timely manner, because both parties want to move on.  But with BPD or NPD in the mix, I think it's unlikely that the spouse will agree to anything reasonable, let alone negotiate in good faith.  I bet you've heard a million excuses as to why your spouse won't help with housework, won't pay bills, won't play fair, won't do anything she doesn't want to do, right?  And if you force her to do something she doesn't want to do, she punishes you dearly, correct?  I bet you've experienced a million unfulfilled promises and been blamed for it, too.  In a divorce scenario, I think the best bet is that she'll only get worse.

A real-life example of a divorce decree in my family involves the marital home (the principal marital asset), which was supposed to be sold, and the home equity split between the parties.  The disordered spouse (who had been living alone in the marital home during the pendancy of divorce negotiations over five years) has refused to move out his belongings and prepare the home for sale for a year after the decree.  Please note that it took five years to have the courts decide the terms, rather than settle before going to court, as is the case in "normal" separations!  Now we're in the spring market, and he still hasn't prepared the home for sale, i.e. moving out his belongings to the apartment where he has been staying since the divorce decree.  Furthermore, the cost of getting the courts to enforce the terms of the settlement is high, in addition to extremely slow.  Another example is paying child support.  Since the disordered spouse is unemployed (of course), there are no wages to garnish, and he is perpetually months late in paying child support.  He has a million excuses, such as losing his bank information, not understanding how to transfer money online, losing his password, forgetting what day it is, not being told what the amount is, etc.  That's what I mean by expecting non-compliance.  Any terms of separation need to assume non-cooperation from your spouse.  Does that make sense?

[ForeverDad]

After a half century of living as she has been living, your attempts - and some counseling attempts - in the past having failed, - it is probably unlikely your spouse will work toward improving her mental health.  It could happen but you can't rely on that outcome.

If you should choose to divorce, it will be mostly about financial and property issues, mostly assets and debts/loans.  Of course your spouse will try to sabotage and make it far more complicated than necessary.

If she hasn't worked in recent years, she may claim poverty and want you to pay her lawyers' bills.  What seems to work best for most of us is that each spouse's lawyer bills are paid from what is left after the finances are split.  What is the difference?  If you agree to pay her bills, she would feel there no limit to what her lawyers can bill.  However, if she knows her lawyer will be paid from what she receives at the end of the divorce, she may realize she is paying them, they would be taking from her money, what she gets from the divorce.  She wouldn't mind spending your money, but if it's her money...

Since your youngest daughter is nearly an adult, any custody and parenting issues ought to be quite short term.  The remaining concern might be how support is structured during the college years.  For example, what if you agree to pay her housing during university but she chooses to live with her mother?

Do you have concerns for your daughters?  Since they've grown up in a somewhat dysfunctional home, do they truly know deep inside what normalcy really is, are they prepared for life and choosing healthy relationships?  I ask because the examples at home were of an unpredictable parent and an appeasing parent.  There is a risk that they may feel - unconsciously - inclined to respond to someone like their mother's example or someone like their father's example.

If there is a divorce, how would they react?  Would they side with mother, father, or be able to discern what was unhealthy/dysfunctional?  If they haven't had counseling, that would be something highly recommended for them.  Their mother hasn't responded much over the years, but there ought to be hope for the children.

[SingaporeHusband]

Oh my goodness. I am not very good at using this platform and I had almost resigned myself to the idea that no one would respond.  I looked again and looked more carefully and saw all of your responses and have burst into tears.

I don’t know where to begin even.

I have come to the reluctant conclusion that a divorce is necessary and that we are not going to make it through a collaborative process to implement the divorce.  I’ve been trying for two years to get things on a better footing - initially to preserve  the marriage and then to try to achieve a amicable divorce- and every time I think I’ve made a breakthrough with her, she does or says something that is incendiary. 

My family lawyers are urging me to apply for divorce. The only grounds available to me that don’t involve being legally separated for four years is “unreasonable behavior”, and the court filing would need to chronicle all of the bat_____ crazy things that my wife has done over the last few years.

My priority is to deliver my teenage daughter into living environment where she can expect stability on a day-to-day basis so that she can focus on school and friends.  We have engaged my daughter’s therapist in a process where she would make a recommendation as to what the living arrangements ideally would be. My wife has dangled in front of me the idea that she’s going to move in with her boyfriend or move to Thailand for her philanthropic work, but then pivots back and say says no no no my daughter needs me with her. Which is self evidently not true at least not on a day and day out basis right now, as much as my daughter loves her mom enormously. 

And my immediate problem is that an important set of exams are two short weeks away, and I would love to come up with a short-term arrangement that would assure her a calm environment. i’m taking her on a short holiday during the exam prep. So things will be fine for those four days.  But there is the rest of the time.  I’m thinking that if I can’t get my wife to agree to something else, then I’ll remove myself from the situation and stay at a nearby hotel,  taking my daughter aside and explaining that I’ll never be far away. 

Does anybody have any perspectives to share about this? And then on the long-term project of coming up with a living arrangement over the 14 months left before my daughter graduates from high school, is it a wasted effort trying to get my wife to buy into a plan that my daughter’s therapist is working on?  In which case do I just need to plough forward with legal proceedings and leave my 17-year-old to advocate for herself as things unfold.

I have tried in the past to get a family therapist involved who could help mediate, possibly liaising with my wife’s therapist, but my wife has really shown Little interest in working with her therapist or involving a family therapist. I have urged my wife to hire lawyers who then could interface with my lawyers and  :help:remove some of the acrimony from our own interactions, but she seems reluctant to give up control to lawyers. 

Things are a mess. I’m sure I’m close to losing my job. I’m only barely holding things together for my daughter. I’m racking up legal fees that will quickly deplete my hard earned retirement nest egg.  And I could end up in contentious divorce proceedings on two continents. 

I will read your messages more carefully later when I am at my screen rather than using my mobile phone, and provide comments to some of your specific comics and questions.  But in the meantime would be happy to hear from any of you, if you have ideas on any of the above or just to tell me that things might end up OK in the end.

[Pook075]

I have come to the reluctant conclusion that a divorce is necessary and that we are not going to make it through a collaborative process to implement the divorce.  I’ve been trying for two years to get things on a better footing - initially to preserve  the marriage and then to try to achieve a amicable divorce- and every time I think I’ve made a breakthrough with her, she does or says something that is incendiary. 

My family lawyers are urging me to apply for divorce. The only grounds available to me that don’t involve being legally separated for four years is “unreasonable behavior”, and the court filing would need to chronicle all of the bat_____ crazy things that my wife has done over the last few years.

Lawyers practice law, and they don't get paid unless you're a client.  So I'd advise to do what you feel is in your best interest and not necessarily what attorneys are saying.  No one here will know Singapore law enough to give you practical advice, but it sounds like "unreasonable behavior" is going to be a very messy path to take.

Note that I'm not saying, "Don't get divorced" here.  I'm simply pointing out that going that route doesn't sound like a peaceful one.  If separating for four years is a reasonable reason for divorce, then why not just separate and see what happens?  Or maybe you can't under the legal visa circumstances...I don't know.

Does anybody have any perspectives to share about this? And then on the long-term project of coming up with a living arrangement over the 14 months left before my daughter graduates from high school, is it a wasted effort trying to get my wife to buy into a plan that my daughter’s therapist is working on?  In which case do I just need to plough forward with legal proceedings and leave my 17-year-old to advocate for herself as things unfold.

My divorce to my BDP ex-wife wasn't typical here, because there was no scorched earth and we really didn't fight about anything.  We split things 50/50 and anything she wanted from the home, I told her to take it.  And I took that stance because my main focus was our young adult daughters...I wasn't going to argue over "stuff" or "money" when that wasn't the most important thing.  My ex and I are still on good speaking terms because I was able to go that route.

My advice would be to talk to your wife about what she wants long-term, and what's best for the four of you.  If she has a boyfriend she's thinking about living with, or she wants to go overseas for projects, then where does that leave you and the kids?  I would talk it out and see if you can find a happy medium where you're both getting what you want and the kids know mom and dad loves them.

Again, my path wasn't typical...but I promise it was/is the best possible path by far.  Try talking things out and stepping away with grace.  If that fails, okay, then you consider the legal advice and the long battle it will create.  I don't think you have to start there though and your wife may surprise you.

I hope that helps!