Uncomfortable Solutions That Work With Disordered People

[TelHill]

I freeze and fawn too. It even happens with strangers. I was at a restaurant when a woman at a nearby table said something mean to me. I had a freeze and fawn reaction. It was really out of line but there are disordered people everywhere.

I've been on the receiving end of snarky, rude comments in public as many of us have.  I ignore it and smile to not egg the person on.  Or I just ignore it with a blank face like it didn't happen.  I try to get away from them as soon as I can.

I think if we try to make connections with people, there's some risk to that, but the alternative is to not have friends at all. When someone breaks my trust though, it's very difficult but I get better at not letting it get to me as much.

It recently happened with someone who I thought was a friend. Well, she disagreed with something- remotely connected to me but not directly- it was with a person I also worked with. Her reaction- to block and unfriend everyone connected with that person. So, I found myself blocked, unfriended and without any contact with her and it's gone on for several months now.

My first reaction was similar to how I reacted to BPD mother- as if this was something I needed to fix. Emotionally, I was distraught - I think far more than the actual situation called for. I think this brought out the response to- if BPD mother is angry, I needed to somehow fix it as if it was my fault. I did try to reach out to her with no results.

It's not like me to discard friendships like that, and unless it's a major transgression, I try to work it out, if possible. But this was the familiar BPD like split. Sometimes we don't see something disordered until we do. I'm not upset about it anymore.

For the moment though, I am less inclined to try to form a new friendship with anyone. I don't think it's good to self isolate but also, I feel a need to be protective for now.

I'm sorry this happened to you. I don't blame you for stepping back. We have PTSD from a young age from being emotionally abused by my our mothers. It's exhausting to deal with these situations as an adult since it brings up hurt and anger from a very early age when you were totally dependent on this person.

I had incidents with another relative and her spouse on my vacation last year where I was treated in a pleasant manner but can't help thinking it was cruel and self-serving. They repeated painful information only my brother would know. Then they tried acting like they were my best friend trying to help me.

 I can't help but think they were pumping me for information as flying monkeys to my disordered brother in hopes of broadening his smear campaign against me. I wanted to be honest and confront it and them. I sensed doing that would ignite their own smear campaign against me. I played dumb and ignored them. I was pleasant and began talking about unrelated things. They persisted when I saw them gossiping about others to get a reaction out of me. I believe they planned to spread my reaction around to smear me. I ignored it.  It was unnerving but didn't know how else to protect myself.

I promised her some photos when we got back home. She seemed excited that I was going to send them.  I really didn't want to and procrastinated but finally did thinking I misread their intentions. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. She wrote back saying, I have these.  There was no acknowledging my effort or a thank you.  I saw her and her husband at a large family gathering recently. She stood away but her husband told me to stop overtalking people the minute I said hello. Maybe this was from the summer? It was out of context. I ignored it though I can't say it didn't sting.

I plan to return to this vacation spot this summer. I have a right to be there. I plan to stay away from these people though. It's exhausting. I tried being kind and friendly to them. It's very disappointing.

[Notwendy]

Yes, it may not be possible to completely avoid extended family. While it's unlikely that all are disordered, some may be and also family "patterns" exist. The patterns that seem "normal" in the family when people grow up with them. That may be a part of why the seemingly non disordered ones feel inclined to be flying monkeys.

Since I didn't live very close to my BPD mother, and we had different "circles" of people we interacted with frequently, it seemed safer to assume that anyone in her circle was someone to be cordial with when I saw them, but not get too close to.







 

[TelHill]

My BPD mother would do the "refusing to speak to you" and also tell other people to do this too. So if other people do that, it's very distressing at first, but then I have learned to deal with it better, realizing it's a disordered response.

I can understand someone feeling at a loss for words and needing some time to compose themselves but this is different from a prolongued intentional cut contact.

Your cousin's BIL sounds like a walking red flag.

I'm not used to the silent treatment since my late dBPD mother would keep talking and raising her voice when upset. Good advice to carry on and not give in to pressure.

[TelHill]

Yes, it may not be possible to completely avoid extended family. While it's unlikely that all are disordered, some may be and also family "patterns" exist. The patterns that seem "normal" in the family when people grow up with them. That may be a part of why the seemingly non disordered ones feel inclined to be flying monkeys.

Since I didn't live very close to my BPD mother, and we had different "circles" of people we interacted with frequently, it seemed safer to assume that anyone in her circle was someone to be cordial with when I saw them, but not get too close to.

It's unpleasant to be subjected to an unnecessary push and pull to assert dominance, status or choose sides in a family drama. I try not to do this and it's jarring to be the recipient of it. I always think we should get along since we are family. I'm not sure if they are disordered but the patterns are. I suspect alcohol abuse may play a part. I beat back a challenge to some land on my dad's side on my own without help from a lawyer. They were trying to cheat him and I helped him. There may be fear I'll do the same to them as this is my mom's side of the family and there are outstanding issues.

I left home at 18 to go to school to get away from my overwhelming mother. My view of the family was her only and not pay attention to anything else.

Maybe I look like an outsider to them. I've lived a different life with a pretty good career and have different interests. I'm sure there's resentment. I've not had to lean on my FOO for much.  Frankly, there wasn't much from them anyway with all energy going to my mother's terrible behavior and my brother's issues. I've turned into what my parents wanted for my brother. Or maybe it doesn't matter. If you don't fit the mold and you do not choose alliances, this is what happens. You're on the outs.

Cordial but distant is a good way to put this, notwendy! This is me being disinterested in drama.

[zachira]

I admire how you use the quotes in a box to respond to members. Can you tell me how to do that?

[zachira]

I saw the man in the park who wants me to go to the restaurant with him even though I have not shown any interest. I quickly made an excuse not to stand there and talk with him. As I was walking away, he asked me when we were going to the restaurant. I told him that I was not interested. His response was to tell me he is not interested in me, that he only wants to be friends.

This guy is one of the most curious people I have ever met. I feel no connection to him which is unusual for me and it seems most of what he tells me is not true. I only ended up talking to him some because he kept reaching out claiming to be a friend of another disordered person he has seen me with and I do not like to hurt people's feelings. Sometimes we have to pay attention to the red flags right away and distance ourselves. This is hard for me as I like to be nice to people and help those who are lonely who often are ignored by most people.

[zachira]

TelHill and Notwendy,
Your families are clearly full of flying monkeys like mine. It is so hurtful that someone would allow themselves to become the abuser of another person when they really don't know both sides of the story and that they would choose to be an abuser.

My latest incident with my family and the flying monkeys is I have been taken off the family email list. After several years, I made a brief harmless comment and received no more emails. I asked to be readded several times and got no response. Another relative is sending me the important emails. I suspect my sister with NPD asked for me to be taken off the email list. It never ceases to amaze me the power she has as family golden child to influence so many people to target me. Yet when I think of family history, I realize that the other family scapegoats could never get any recognition of all the nice things they did for the family and their reputations trashed whenever possible. I am proud that I did not get all that upset about being excluded from the family email list, as I realize it is not personal and I do have a few decent relatives who have been very kind and generous despite how much garbage they hear about me.

[TelHill]

Sure, zachira. You click Quotebox on the upper right side of the message you want to quote. It pops into the reply box. The code looks like this:

[ quote author=zachira link=topic=3062240.msg13235506#msg13235506 date=1778256725]
Msg msg msg

[ /quote]

You see the above instead of the box because I disabled it by putting a space after the [

I saw the man in the park who wants me to go to the restaurant with him even though I have not shown any interest. I quickly made an excuse not to stand there and talk with him. As I was walking away, he asked me when we were going to the restaurant. I told him that I was not interested. His response was to tell me he is not interested in me, that he only wants to be friends.

This guy is one of the most curious people I have ever met. I feel no connection to him which is unusual for me and it seems most of what he tells me is not true. I only ended up talking to him some because he kept reaching out claiming to be a friend of another disordered person he has seen me with and I do not like to hurt people's feelings. Sometimes we have to pay attention to the red flags right away and distance ourselves. This is hard for me as I like to be nice to people and help those who are lonely who often are ignored by most people.

I don't believe he's looking for friendship. Men often say that if they feel there's a chance to wear you down for a date. I'd be wary if he knows you own a condo. He might give you a sob story about being evicted, losing his job, etc., to move in for free rent. You'll never get rid of him.

It used to be very hard for me too. It takes practice and a few times of being taken advantage of to kick your instincts to protect yourself into permanent high gear.

[TelHill]

TelHill and Notwendy,
Your families are clearly full of flying monkeys like mine. It is so hurtful that someone would allow themselves to become the abuser of another person when they really don't know both sides of the story and that they would choose to be an abuser.

My latest incident with my family and the flying monkeys is I have been taken off the family email list. After several years, I made a brief harmless comment and received no more emails. I asked to be readded several times and got no response. Another relative is sending me the important emails. I suspect my sister with NPD asked for me to be taken off the email list. It never ceases to amaze me the power she has as family golden child to influence so many people to target me. Yet when I think of family history, I realize that the other family scapegoats could never get any recognition of all the nice things they did for the family and their reputations trashed whenever possible. I am proud that I did not get all that upset about being excluded from the family email list, as I realize it is not personal and I do have a few decent relatives who have been very kind and generous despite how much garbage they hear about me.

I assume that there is a family text chain I've never been invited to based on my brother letting strategic, short truth bombs out regarding texts he received from various relatives followed by his smirking. One part of me doesn't care but the other part does. I asked a cousin to let me know important news after our cousin passed away and my brother failed to tell me until after the funeral. He wanted me to look bad for not attending. There was a more distant cousin who passed about the same time. I knew about it and wanted to go to the funeral. My brother told me I wasn't invited. I didn't question it but now believe it may have been a lie to make me look bad for what might look like skipping it. True evil.

I have noticed a symptom of sociopathy/psychopathy my brother has which makes his smearing more believeable. It's called a flat effect which goes hand-in-hand with zero to low conscience. He shows zero emotion with a happy, pleasant face. It's not flat like being catatonic but it comes across as calm and in charge. I've seen him lie with this calm demeanor. It's a strange thing to see -- no nerves or fidgeting.  Maybe your sister is the same?

It's good you have some decent relatives looking out for you! If I do my brother has run ahead and smeared me.

[Notwendy]

I don't believe he's looking for friendship. Men often say that if they feel there's a chance to wear you down for a date. I'd be wary if he knows you own a condo. He might give you a sob story about being evicted, losing his job, etc., to move in for free rent. You'll never get rid of him.

It used to be very hard for me too. It takes practice and a few times of being taken advantage of to kick your instincts to protect yourself into permanent high gear.

I don't believe he's only looking for friendship either. What gives me caution is this indirect way of asking you out and also it's insulting. Taking someone out for dinner to test the food before you take someone else out is already putting you one down.

IMHO, someone who wants to take you out to dinner will ask, directly. If he cares about you, he wouldn't make this comment, he'd know the restaurant was a good place. It does sound like he's joking a bit but on your part, if you accept a less than acceptable place to eat, he then knows you accept less than kind treatment. By acceptable I don't mean it has to be an expensive 5 star restaurant but some place he's been and likes and thinks you'd like it too.

"There's a great Mexican restaurant nearby- want to go get something to eat sometime?" is a casual, yet direct way to ask.

Someone who respects your boundaries wouldn't push the "no thank you" to his dinner invitation. That he keeps pushing it, tells me he doesn't. I don't think he's a good choice for a "just friends" either.

Seeing what you don't want here can also start you thinking about what you do want in a potential friendship or relationship. Direct and clear communication, respecting boundaries, to name a few.

Imagine you meet someone who you would like to get to know better? And he asks you to dinner, directly.

I'm not single but if I were, I wouldn't go anywhere in someone's car or accept a dinner invitation right away from someone I don't know well. I would reply, directly- I'd like to get to know you better but I prefer we meet for coffee first. If he respects that boundary-  pick a place, drive there with your own car, and it's coffee only until you have checked him out, and feel you know him better.

[Notwendy]

I assume that there is a family text chain I've never been invited to based on my brother letting strategic, short truth bombs out regarding texts he received from various relatives followed by his smirking. One part of me doesn't care but the other part does. I asked a cousin to let me know important news after our cousin passed away and my brother failed to tell me until after the funeral. He wanted me to look bad for not attending. There was a more distant cousin who passed about the same time. I knew about it and wanted to go to the funeral. My brother told me I wasn't invited. I didn't question it but now believe it may have been a lie to make me look bad for what might look like skipping it. True evil.

I have noticed a symptom of sociopathy/psychopathy my brother has which makes his smearing more believeable. It's called a flat effect which goes hand-in-hand with zero to low conscience. He shows zero emotion with a happy, pleasant face. It's not flat like being catatonic but it comes across as calm and in charge. I've seen him lie with this calm demeanor. It's a strange thing to see -- no nerves or fidgeting.  Maybe your sister is the same?

It's good you have some decent relatives looking out for you! If I do my brother has run ahead and smeared me.

Some time ago, I received an email when someone in my mother's FOO hit "reply all" instead of "reply". At first I thought it was about BPD mother- discussing mental heath issues- but reading it, I realized that they were discussing me, and how they came up with these ideas, I don't know how they came up with that but most likely because they assumed the difficulties in our relationship were because of me, not her.

This created some distance between us, because, I was embarrassed in their presence. It's hard to be around people who think you are disordered. Later, BPD mother got angry at me and they didn't communicate with me.

Then, BPD mother, in what was a push pull, I think, tried to smooth over communcation with them. She forwarded me a group email with a topic of interest to the family- and asked if I was interested. I looked at the email list and saw that I was not on it. So, I replied- no, I wasn't included.

They later realized more about my mother's behavior and reached out to me. We have reconnected. It's better, but still difficult, as now there's been distance between us and I still feel wary.