Telling me what I figure I need to hear about the last step in no contact.

[Depression = 72% of members]

It’s been a long road in a while since I have posted. I’ve now had a domestic violence, protective order in place against my soon to be ex-wife since December.  The only manner in which she can contact me is through a designated email.

The clarity and calm I’ve gotten in the stability and focus. I’ve been able to give my kids has been great.

This one last issue that I want to confront. Her emails are supposed to be limited to details about the kids, just factual. But they aren’t something will come up and she will decide that she needs to frame up her perspective on the issue by describing negative feelings about me, negative conduct imputed to me negative characteristics imputed to me and so on. All of which I’ve heard hundreds of times and responded to in numerous different ways. And don’t get me wrong. Some of her complaints are legitimate. But emails about the kids that could’ve been 100 to 300 words end up being 2000 to 4000 words. 

I’ve asked her to stop doing it. She’s been court. Ordered to stop doing it. For the most part to take the advice that I scan to take what I need and ignore the rest. I compartmentalize much better than I used to. But somewhere inside me, there was still that part of me that response to the tension building of the emails mounting and the increasingly tense language about how I am ignoring and not responding.

So I want it to stop. and I could make it stop by forwarding some emails to my attorney who would send them to her attorney.

Something inside me has me hesitating. I don’t actually wanna do it. Part of me wonders if I don’t really actually wanna cut ties because I’m still in love with the fantasy that was that relationship and this is the final goodbye. Don’t get me wrong. I am not getting back into this relationship. I just find myself wistfully missing my own ignorance. Another part of me wonders if I just feel guilty like this is all the way down to just emails. Why can’t I just do this for her? I suppose I still feel a sense of obligation and guilt. She is still suffering and texted these emails and her suffering is about me and my contact and isn’t there some way that I could answer or respond that would make her feel better? I realize that is delusional.

In a way I’m just putting this out there almost like a journal entry knowing that I need to cut her off because from a standpoint of my own health, I just need it to stop and I have to power to make it stop. The emails have on occasion ruined my day or ruined my mood, and I have found myself snapping at others after these interactions, including my kids.

I have also gotten some very great wisdom and some great framing from this board in the past and maybe lightning will strike again and somebody will frame this up in a way that will help me see this all through.

Thanks in advance for reading and any commenting or help or support.

[AlleyOop23]

It’s been a long road in a while since I have posted. I’ve now had a domestic violence, protective order in place against my soon to be ex-wife since December.  The only manner in which she can contact me is through a designated email.

The clarity and calm I’ve gotten in the stability and focus. I’ve been able to give my kids has been great.

This one last issue that I want to confront. Her emails are supposed to be limited to details about the kids, just factual. But they aren’t something will come up and she will decide that she needs to frame up her perspective on the issue by describing negative feelings about me, negative conduct imputed to me negative characteristics imputed to me and so on. All of which I’ve heard hundreds of times and responded to in numerous different ways. And don’t get me wrong. Some of her complaints are legitimate. But emails about the kids that could’ve been 100 to 300 words end up being 2000 to 4000 words. 

I’ve asked her to stop doing it. She’s been court. Ordered to stop doing it. For the most part to take the advice that I scan to take what I need and ignore the rest. I compartmentalize much better than I used to. But somewhere inside me, there was still that part of me that response to the tension building of the emails mounting and the increasingly tense language about how I am ignoring and not responding.

So I want it to stop. and I could make it stop by forwarding some emails to my attorney who would send them to her attorney.

Something inside me has me hesitating. I don’t actually wanna do it. Part of me wonders if I don’t really actually wanna cut ties because I’m still in love with the fantasy that was that relationship and this is the final goodbye. Don’t get me wrong. I am not getting back into this relationship. I just find myself wistfully missing my own ignorance. Another part of me wonders if I just feel guilty like this is all the way down to just emails. Why can’t I just do this for her? I suppose I still feel a sense of obligation and guilt. She is still suffering and texted these emails and her suffering is about me and my contact and isn’t there some way that I could answer or respond that would make her feel better? I realize that is delusional.

In a way I’m just putting this out there almost like a journal entry knowing that I need to cut her off because from a standpoint of my own health, I just need it to stop and I have to power to make it stop. The emails have on occasion ruined my day or ruined my mood, and I have found myself snapping at others after these interactions, including my kids.

I have also gotten some very great wisdom and some great framing from this board in the past and maybe lightning will strike again and somebody will frame this up in a way that will help me see this all through.

Thanks in advance for reading and any commenting or help or support.

[Notwendy]

Something inside me has me hesitating. I don’t actually wanna do it. Part of me wonders if I don’t really actually wanna cut ties because I’m still in love with the fantasy that was that relationship and this is the final goodbye. Don’t get me wrong. I am not getting back into this relationship. I just find myself wistfully missing my own ignorance. Another part of me wonders if I just feel guilty like this is all the way down to just emails. Why can’t I just do this for her? I suppose I still feel a sense of obligation and guilt. She is still suffering and texted these emails and her suffering is about me and my contact and isn’t there some way that I could answer or respond that would make her feel better? I realize that is delusional.

I think this is good insight to your own "co-dependent" - or "fixing" behaviors. On one hand you recognize this "pull" on you, and also at the same time, understand that you need to resist it, that you don't want to be doing it.

From the perspective of someone for whom this was "normal" in my FOO- I have these tendencies and have worked on them. I think it takes some time but the recognition and not doing them is progress. I think at one pont, jumping in to fix your ex-wife's emotional discomfort was automatic. Now, it's not.

The story of the hole in the sidewalk is a metaphor for this progress. It's been posted in several sources- I just picked one.

https://simpleandpractical.com/stages-change-poem/

From my own experience, going completely NC with a person when there are shared family members with whom you do want or need contact with is not possible. Going NC with an ex- when there are no ties is suggested, but in your situation, the two of you are parents, so there's going to be some communication between the two of you.

While the relationship as it was, is no longer- there's still a "relationship" of some kind- as parents, and you have a boundary to limit contact to that role by email. Boundaries don't control the other person. They determine how we respond to when the boundary is stepped over. It's not possible to control what your stbx wife puts in an email. Your part is to decide on your actions.

What was suggested to me by a counselor was to not be reactive - to not jump in to "fix" but also to not react in the opposite direction. IMHO (I don't have experience with divorce but I think this is general advice when dealing with dysfunction) - to get the lawyers involved would be a reaction in the other direction and possibly add to the drama (and the expenses). To not react would be to not respond to the emotional content either way- don't try to fix, don't act on the offense- just keep your responses to be about the children. E-mails are documentation so best to keep correspondance emotionally neutral.

It's not possible to control what someone else thinks or feels emotionally. You can't "fix" your ex-wife's emotional discomfort and neither can you stop or control what she says. This may be a part of who she is, and likely a large aspect of the relationship dynamics between you. Just like it's been habitual to you to step in to "fix" and you are working on changing that for yourself, it's habitual for her to express her feelings to you. This may also be her focus, on her emotional discomfort- and how she relates to people who are, or have been close to her.

I think in time, as you aren't "fixing" now, or reacting, your ex-wife's behavior isn't being reinforced, and so may diminish over time. Or it may not- but you don't have to respond to it. While the emails bring up feelings now- sitting with them, being aware- but not reacting is progress.

[Pook075]

My ex-wife and I separated four years ago (which sounds crazy...four years already!?!).  Every now and then she'll call over something with the kids, our previous finances or things one of us has in storage, etc.  And when that phone rings with her on the caller ID, I feel a pinch of panic and a pinch of excitement at the exact same time. 

Why?  I really don't know, but I still enjoy talking to her from time to time and sharing little nuggets from our current lives.

I think what you're going through it completely normal and I do understand the hesitation to cut off all contact.  The email is a great option because you can choose to read it or skip it, and you get to decide when you do that.

Maybe a compromise would be to ask your attorney to mention the rules of communication?  You don't mind hearing anything kid or finance related, and you don't mind little things about her life.  But the ranting and blaming are crossing a boundary that's ultimately against the judge's orders and the reason you separated in the first place.

I actually think it's a good thing for the judge to see that you're not treating her like an enemy combatant; you just don't need the abusive language while trying to be kind and civil.  I'd recommend to keep the email chain but give a reminder on what it's actually for.

[zachira]

There is a certain kind of app that divorced parents use to communicate about the children they have shared custody of. I am not sure if that would limit how much she could write that did not have to do with the children. You can ask your lawyer.

As far as still feeling an unhealthy connection to her because of all the accusations and complaints she continues to repeat over and over, any normal human being would feel uncomfortable reading what she is sending to you. It certainly would be best for your well being to not have to read all those. Do you want to have the emails sent to your lawyer which you will have to pay for or is there a third party who could read the emails and send you only what is related to the children?

Certainly I would continue to have the court alerted to what she is doing. The children are subject to all her out of control ranting and raving. You might have a possibility of getting a more favorable custody arrangement because of how badly she is behaving.

[hotchip]

"Part of me wonders if I don’t really actually wanna cut ties because I’m still in love with the fantasy that was that relationship and this is the final goodbye."

It's good that you can be insightful about your own thought processes.

Detaching from a toxic person is one thing, and detaching from the fantasy that the person or the relationship represents is another. I, too, find myself "wistfully missing my own ignorance". For example, I went through a process of reframing certain positive memories with former partner sp that I would no longer feel the same habitual sense of warmth, closeness etc by juxtaposing them with the reality of manipulation, deceit, callousness, etc.

But one day, when the memory came up and I felt no warmth, I felt a sense of shock and sadness and habitually tried to reach back in my emotions to rekindle it. To an extent, I still feel that sadness. Losing the relationship is one thing, losing the person by realising they never existed is another, and finally, losing the feelings associated with them. Just because something was illusory doesn't mean that losing it isn't a loss. I hope you can continue to detach as you seem to be doing.

[CC43]

This one last issue that I want to confront. Her emails are supposed to be limited to details about the kids, just factual. But they aren’t something will come up and she will decide that she needs to frame up her perspective on the issue by describing negative feelings about me, negative conduct imputed to me negative characteristics imputed to me and so on. All of which I’ve heard hundreds of times and responded to in numerous different ways. And don’t get me wrong. Some of her complaints are legitimate. But emails about the kids that could’ve been 100 to 300 words end up being 2000 to 4000 words. 

I’ve asked her to stop doing it. She’s been court. Ordered to stop doing it. For the most part to take the advice that I scan to take what I need and ignore the rest. I compartmentalize much better than I used to. But somewhere inside me, there was still that part of me that response to the tension building of the emails mounting and the increasingly tense language about how I am ignoring and not responding.

Hi there,

This sounds exactly like the situation of a pwNPD (undiagnosed) in my life.  He's supposed to communicate with his ex about visitation and various affairs affecting the kids, but he uses any contact as an excuse to vent his ongoing dissatisfaction with the former relationship.  His missives dredge up ancient grievances, and he continues to insult his ex.  Sure, he's supposed to use a co-parenting app to coordinate logistics, but he has a million excuses not to use it.  He prefers texting and emails.  Meanwhile, he makes each and every interaction tense, with non-cooperation, threats and endless accusations.  It's emotionally draining.

I think the reality is, you can't control your disordered ex.  Though there might be a divorce decree and a parenting plan in place, your ex doesn't necessarily comply with it, and the courts can't do much, either, short of a restraining order.  Your ex carries all this emotional baggage, which is unleashed during your ongoing interactions.  And the reality is that the interactions are ongoing because of the kids.  You recognize that her missives/complaints/accusations are triggering to YOU.  Of course they are, the messages are highly personal, and I think they are DESIGNED to be triggering to you.  Maybe they make you feel defensive, angry, guilty, fearful or plain exhausted.  My guess is you feel dread every time you see a message from your ex.

Maybe if you sit with the issue, you might be able to accept it.  Try not to take the messages personally, hard though it may be.  Maybe you could ask a trusted third party (or AI?) to read the messages for you and reply regarding the logistics only.

[wantmorepeace]

AlleyOop23,

I know that many of us on this site relate to the mixture of thoughts and feelings you describe.  And I think that we are often inclined to see that mixture as indicating a deficit in ourselves.  Somebody said something to me about this recently that I found really helpful.  She said that the impact of a rip tide isn't a sign of how weak the swimmer is but how strong the pull is. Your situation is challenging.  You are on your journey in learning how you want to and can deal with it -- which may not be linear but is a journey of progress.

[Notwendy]

It  may help to keep in mind the reason for going NC- for a person's own emotional recovery, not to act on the other person. However, it is one choice and in some situations, like yours, when there are children involved, it's not a choice. If someone chooses NC, they can block the person, delete emails, but you can not do this.

Another option is LC- not only in contact frequency but in emotional content of the contact. You can't control how your wife interacts but you can decrease your emotional input and reactions. Another term is "grey rock"- go neutral.

Feeling emotionally triggered isn't comfortable but looking at it another way- if you feel triggered, the trigger spot is actually yours, and if it's yours, you can do something about it. When you feel emotional, it's a signal to use your self regulating tools- do some self care, take a walk. It's OK to feel the feelings. Chances are, you've been putting your own aside for a while now. Use this time to reconnect with yourself.

If you find the emails have too much of an emotional affect- CC43's suggestion- get someone trusted to screen and edit the fact parts out, or use AI if that is possible.

While it seems logical to repeat the rules of contact with your ex, also consider if this is going to work if your ex can even control how she relates to you. It may be that the only part of this contact that you can control is yours.

[CC43]

Hi again,

I have another off-beat idea to help deal with reading toxic messages from your ex without being triggered as much.  I found that when I worked abroad in a foreign language, the emotional content of any communications was dampened for me.  I was usually more clinical in my understanding of conversations.  There was something about thinking in a foreign language that activated my analytical brain more than the emotional part.

So my idea for you would be to try having your ex's messages read aloud to you, ideally with a foreign-sounding accent, and perhaps in a voice of the opposite gender of your ex.  My email system can read messages aloud to me, albeit in a computer-sounding voice.  Maybe if the message's voice sounded completely different, the emotional content would feel more blunted.  With some luck, you could just focus on the factual/logistical content and feel less triggered.

Another idea for you would be to "schedule" when you deal with stuff from your ex.  An example might be, you check for and listen to messages while driving home from work, making dinner or taking your evening stroll.  Moreover, if you are semi-engaged with a small task, your reaction might feel more blunted.  I did this regularly in my work life, by screening calls from certain family members during the work day.  I found that talking to them during work would be too disruptive to me.  To deal with that, I'd let their calls go to voicemail, and then I'd get back to them during my commute home.  Dealing with them during the commute felt less disruptive and more manageable.  It also helped that it was close to dinnertime, which tended to keep the conversations shorter.

Good luck.

[At Bay]

If you can focus on being pragmatic it might help. Tell yourself that the reality is the negative effect on your relationships with others. I know I was conditioned to look forward to the reset between awful scenes, so that I could feel good again, and that it was a fantasy.

I've become used to thinking grey rock, but even last night he found a way to get my attention when he wanted to call one of the grandchildren on a school night. Turned into me listening to griping about how seldom we see them (they live two states away), and that being a grandfather is no fun anymore. Since I didn't engage, he never got around to saying that he can't do anything right, and blaming me.

I don't feel sympathetic toward him because of the stress he's caused me, but I know what you mean about seeing how it could have been. I forget for a minute what he turned my life into being, but I do that less and less.

You have time and the chance to make a good life for yourself and your kids. Looking back and knowing that you did the right thing will help, I think.

[zachira]

The last step in no contact is really when you are not emotionally affected that much by your wife's constant criticism of you. This is not likely a reasonable goal right now as how she behaves affects both your children and you, And you can only go low contact with her until she no longer has custody due to a court decision or your children have aged out of the system. A more realistic goal for now might be to find ways to be less emotionally overwhelmed with less intensity and for shorter periods of time by her aberrant behaviors. Certainly ongoing exposure to her rants and rages is not good for you even if it is over email as you are human being with feelings and sensitivities. Not too many people could listen to the degree of criticism she is constantly throwing out you without being negatively affected.