Things are not going well with my niece and I need help.

[Ted878]

Hi Everyone,

Well, I hate to start off with a very concerning post, but here is what is happening:

My niece is 36 years old and has BPD. It's not diagnosed but from what I'm seeing I have no doubt. My sister and I went to visit her. She lives on the other side of the country so we flew out. The visit did not go well. I believe she was just emotionally stressed by our visit AND has had many fights with her mother over time. So it turned into fights and arguments. At one point a screaming match occurred between her and her mother. Upon our return home she continued to call and text us angry and screaming, saying that because we had a loud argument in her apartment she was going to get evicted. There was no evidence of that but that's what she claimed.

A few nights later she called me and said she was going to kill herself, kept threatening to slit her wrists, saying that I was always siding with her mother and it was all my fault. I told her I needed her to tell me she was going to be OK or I had to have her checked on. Or that she should call a suicide hotline. She just kept saying she was going to kill herself. I contacted the suicide help line and they recommended that I call the police and ask for a Wellness check. I was trying my best to make it as non-invasive as possible. The police came to her apartment could not calm her down and had to sedate her and literally drag her away. They took her to the hospital and she was released the next day. I don't know the details of what happened either in her apartment or at the hospital. At any rate her employer did find out and put her on a one month break, claims they will re-hire her at that time, but we are not sure. And the landlord came to speak to her due to the commotion. There may be a danger of her being evicted because of the extreme commotion. We don't know what's going to happen in either case at this point, but now she 10 times as angry at me. She's threatening me. Threatening to call the police on me in the middle of the night so that I'll know how it feels, claiming that I ruined her life, telling me that I should kill myself and I deserve to die.

She has calmed down somewhat, even telling my sister and in text that she is sorry and that she loves us. But I know how it goes. If things stay smooth, if she gets her job restored and stays in her apartment we may be able to get past this crisis. But if she loses her job and if she gets evicted who knows what she'll do. My concern is she could call the police on me in the middle of the night for a suicide check. Or worse. She has spent time staying with me on various occasions and I wouldn't put it past her to have her claim that I raped her. I'm seeing things on Youtube about men going to jail because of convincing testimony from partners who claimed all sorts of things against the men and or women they were in relationships with. My sister just managed to get health insurance for my niece, and we're hoping that she'll get back on the medication she was on previously, Seroquel. In the past that seemed to help. We are also encouraging her to get into therapy, the dialectical therapy that we've seen listed online for BPD. Hopefully she gets better. I have to say I'm feeling quite traumatized by the way she's been threatening me both on the phone and in text.

My question is can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this? Please try not to "scare me", it's bad enough as it is. But just, how can I handle this, how should I talk to her, what to avoid, etc.

Thank you.

[CC43]

Hi Ted,

You've come to the right place.  Based on what you wrote, I think you did the best you could.  I'm sorry you had to call for a wellness check, but if your niece is making earnest suicide threats, I think it's the right thing to do.  That she was taken to the hospital tells me she truly was in a bad state--she couldn't convince the police that she was fine, and then her landlord approached her about a disturbance!  It sounds to me like going to the hospital was a good thing, because it stabilized her enough to be discharged.  Maybe if it happens again, she could be held for longer.  Maybe then she'd get the help she really needs.

I think you're right to be concerned that your niece might accuse you of something terrible, for example molestation, assault or rape.  I think this is fairly common among pwBPD, including the pwBPD in my life.  My advice would be not ever to be alone with your niece; always have a witness present.  That might not stop her of accusing you, but at least you'd have a witness.  If you are gravely concerned, consider recording all your interactions with her.  Also, keep records of all the correspondence from your niece, should you need to provide evidence of her threats.  If she calls for a wellness check on you, my guess is that police would see you and surmise in about twenty seconds that you're absolutely fine.  I personally wouldn't worry about that.  She can threaten calling the police all she wants; you have no control over whether she does that or not. 

It sounds to me like your niece is under a lot of stress and is taking it out on you.  That her employer asked her to take a month off is telling; my guess is that she has been acting erratic at work.  If you are in the US, HIPPA rules prevent hospitals from sharing patient data with others without patient consent.  So I don't think the employer "found out" that your niece had an episode which landed her in the hospital, unless she outright told them.  And I just don't think that an employer would dare ask a competent employee to take a leave of absence based on spending one day in the hospital.  Rather, my guess is that your niece has been acting erratic in the workplace, and they had grounds to ask her to take a leave of absence.  Maybe that's why she was threatening suicide in the first place--because she knew she was at risk in her employment situation.  I think you can't really trust how pwBPD portray a situation, as they see everything from a victim perspective.  In my experience, there is a high tendency to distort the truth, even outright lie, to protect one's image and status, and, most of all, to avoid shame.  Core issues for pwBPD are a victim identity, blame-shifting and avoiding taking responsibility.

As for your sister's attempts to get her daughter back on meds, that's noble of her, yet my opinion is that nobody can force your niece to take meds.  Your niece is an adult, and it's her choice to take meds or not.  My guess is that your niece doesn't think she needs any meds, because she thinks her mom is the one who needs to be medicated!  So I think it's a losing battle to try to "fix" your niece's life, because it's impossible to fix her life unless she does the work herself.  If you or your sister are providing ANY support to her--financial, emotional, logistical, administrative, etc.--you might be enabling the status quo of dysfunction.  If you read these boards, the general consensus here is that a pwBPD has to "hit bottom" before they decide to accept professional help to change.  In the meantime, loved ones are caught in a situation of trying to "help," trying to "fix" things when it's impossible.  In fact, the longer you enable dysfunction, the worse things might get.

In the meantime, what can you do?  You might read through these boards for support.  Know that you didn't do anything wrong, no matter how much your niece tries to convince you otherwise.  If she's accusing you of outrageous things, that's most likely projection on her part.  If she's saying that you shoud kill yourself and that you deserve to die, that's code for how she thinks about herself.  She's ruminating about it so much that it emerges as an accusation.  That's surely projection.

[Ted878]

Thanks for the quick reply, it was very helpful. A couple notes:

Her employer knows she was in the hospital because that's who she called to pick her up!! Without too much detail, it's kind of a housekeeping job, and she considers the employer like a friend. But there were other people she could have called. When I asked her why she called them, she said "Well, I was supposed to show up that day". As if she couldn't have simply called in sick!

As for meds- she did take Seroquel for quite a while, and it seemed to keep a lid on the extremes of anger. She only stopped when she lost a job and health insurance at the same time. I once saw her taking Ziprasidone, which to my mind REALLY helped her, made her into a normal person! But she said it was making her too tired. But recently, before this incident, she was asking about it. She knows she has a problem, seems willing to take some action on it. I just wonder if it she would stay committed to therapy, she gives up on many things easily.

I doubt I would be convicted of anything she could accuse me of. My fear is of being dragged through the mud and having to pay for lawyers and all the stress it would cause. I mean, I have my own issues- I was bullied as a child and this is bringing up quite strong emotions of being threatened and bullied. I had to get my doctor to give me some valium!

Anyway, I just hope she keeps her job and apartment. I have been her "Favorite Person" for several years now. I am seeing what a burden that can become. I need to step back from her, but my understanding is that it may not be easy to do. At any rate, I can see how traumatic calling the police was for her, and wish I could take it back, but I can't. I just have to hope for the best.

Thanks again.
Ted

[CC43]

Hi Ted,

Try not to beat yourself up too much about your niece.  I'd say at least 99% of the people here are here precisely because a pwBPD has complicated their lives so much that they're in distress.  That's why the number one piece of advice you'll find here is to take care of yourself first.  You're no good to your niece if you're a basket case.  Besides, if you're really stressed out, it's hard to think straight.  Here we call that operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  SInce you're not the parent, my guess is that you don't feel as much obligation and guilt as fear--both fear OF and FOR your pwBPD.  Added to that is generalized fear of triggering your pwBPD over seemingly nothing.  Here we call that "walking on eggshells."

In other words, it's normal to feel stressed out, especially when your pwBPD is acting out.  We highly recommend taking a break from her if you need one.  You don't have to announce or explain it, just do it--pull away for a time, get busy, don't read her texts or emails as much, don't respond if you don't want to.  You focus on you.  You don't have to get "sucked in" to your niece's drama.  If she's lashing out, you can let her go into an "adult time out."  It's not your job to regulate her emotions.

If she's vaguely threatening suicide (I can't take this anymore, it's hopeless, I don't want to be here anymore), you could ask her if she would like you to dial 911 or 988 for her--that way you're validating her, but also giving her a choice.  If she doesn't want you to dial for help, then you can breathe easier knowing she's not really serious and doesn't really want the help.

As for fear of a lawsuit, do you really think your niece will file?  My guess is she doesn't know how to do such a thing.  Would she have money to hire a lawyer and file a complaint?  Would she be able to figure out how to file a claim by herself?  My guess is, probably not--she's just making empty threats in moments of overwhelming emotions.  Look, she didn't even figure out how to call in sick to work, or summon an Uber to get home from the hospital.  She doesn't sound very functional in what I call "administrative" affairs.  I think this is fairly common in young adults with BPD, because they've had a lifetime of adults around them who over-function for them, in the name of keeping them stable.  But after a lifetime of receiving help from the adults around them, they've neglected learning some valuable adulting skills, especially figuring out how to do complicated things on their own.

Indeed, she sounds like a bully.  It's great that you recognize that her behavior is triggering to you.  One suggestion I have for you is to try slow walking.  That's a reminder to slow down your responses to your niece.  If you slow walk, you not only give her more time and space to regulate her emotions, but you give yourself some time to do the same!  I know, pwBPD make everything sound so urgent, like it's a matter of life and death.  But most of the time, it's not.  I'd say, try to slow down your responses.  If she asks for money, your default response might be, "Let me think about it over the weekend."  If she asks for logistical help, your default response might be, "Let me check my calendar and get back to you later."  If she calls or texts, your default response might be to reply a day later, or on the weekend, when it's convenient for you.  Maybe you have to consult your wife first, too (if you have one).  Just make up a reason to delay and stick to it.  Buy yourself some time and space.  Chances are, the problem might go away before you even respond.  At the very least, you have a chance to think things through before reacting.  Maybe the best reaction is no reaction at all, in the hopes that everything blows over.

[ForeverDad]

You did right.  No one here will criticize you for calling for a wellness check.  Many members have reported being faced with hearing suicide threats.  The best response is to admit we aren't trained to distinguish how real suicide ideations might be.  Therefore it is best to call in those trained to handle such situations... 911, suicide hotlines, police or other emergency responders.

After a few instances of the above your niece ought to learn to stop making such threats since doing so causes real consequences.

Proactively, it would be smart of you to save and archive any communications you receive (texts, phone calls, etc) where she either states how good you are or apologizes for acting poorly.

[Pook075]

Hi Ted and welcome to the forums!  I'm so sorry you found us under these circumstances but you are in the right place.

Nobody here wants to scare you and many of us have been in the identical situation.  I've called the police on my BPD daughter a dozen times or more, and brought her to facilities several more times.  It never gets easier and early on, I took her wrath for betraying her.

What you'll learn in time though is that BPDs are highly manipulative and destructive.  I dialed 9-1-1 every time my daughter threatened suicide and guess what- she stopped threatening after a few times.  Why?  Because she didn't want to die, she wanted me to be in a panic over her and come rushing in to save the day (by doing whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, at any cost). 

And don't get me wrong, she might have felt suicidal in the moment.  But if you're going to hurt yourself, would you call someone first to tell them about it and go into detail blaming them?  Probably not.  You'd just hurt yourself.  The fact that she blamed you was just an outpouring of unstable emotion and you absolutely did the correct thing...you call 9-1-1 every single time.

Now, she might lose her job or be evicted.  But is that on you?  Really be honest with yourself here because you did nothing wrong and you were manipulated into making the call in the first place.  This is 100% on your niece and she will accept that or she won't...my guess is she won't because that's what BPDs do.  They blame everyone around them and seek to punish them when they feel betrayed.

Besides, the ploice showed up and she was still hysterical.  They didn't take her to the hospital just for the heck of it.  She needed to be seen and treated.

The title of your thread ends with "I need help."  We'll certainly do everything we can to help you.  But here's the thing, you're here because you want help.  Your niece refuses help or medication.  Hopefully you can see that those are two completely different things.  You can't help her or save her- she must be willing to help herself first.

[CC43]

She has spent time staying with me on various occasions and I wouldn't put it past her to have her claim that I raped her.

Hi again,

I'm sorry I missed this detail when I responded to you earlier.  I agree that there's always a risk of your niece re-writing history and accusing you of nefarious things.  My adult BPD stepdaughter tried pulling that stunt a few times.  Initially, I tended to give her the benefit of the doubt.  But as time passed, her claims became more outlandish, and she started to change her tune when challenged.  In parallel, as I discovered more details about past incidents from other people, I realized that she had wildly misrepresented events, always portraying herself as a victim, when more often than not, she was the abuser!

I have some additional advice for you, which is this:  please don't let your niece stay with you in your home again.  It sounds to me like your home is her back-up housing plan.  Let me guess:  she loses a job, gets evicted or breaks up with a romantic partner, and she expects you to take her in, right?  She can't stay with her own mom because she's toxic, right?  I've been in the same situation with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She has rebounded to my home several times in her adult life, basically every time she quits and gives up--her job, her rooming situation, her one-week romance, her studies.  When she lives with me, she's essentially on vacation, in the sense that she's vacating her life.  Sure, she promises to work and be nice, that this time will be different, but she keeps her promises for only a few days.  She avoids responsibilities and dealing with real life.  By letting her stay in our home, we're essentially enabling continued dysfunction, and we can't get away from her very negative aura.  That is not good for me or my husband, or our marriage.  And enabling dysfunction is not good for her, not at all.  My opinion is that by "helping" her, we're actually hurting her, because she's able to avoid getting professional help and working on herself.

Your niece might guilt-trip into you helping her.  She might accuse you of being a horrible person until you relent.  She might make all sorts of promises to convince you to let her stay with you.  She'll try to push all your buttons--of fear, obligation and guilt.  PwBPD can be extremely manipulative that way, but they're good at it, because it has worked for them in the past.  But here's the thing:  your niece has gone "nuclear" already.  If she doesn't get what she wants, she threatens suicide.  If you take her seriously and call 911, she turns around and hates you for believing her!  Then she starts threatening you.  It seems to me that she's MAD:  threatening mutually assured destruction.  That's why you can't let her live with you anymore.  You can't fix her.  Only she can do that.  You are not the solution to her problems; she is.  I think she'll decide to get help only once she hits bottom.  If you prevent her from hitting bottom by allowing her a safety hammock in your house, you run the risk of ruining your life right alongside hers.

I know this might sound like tough love for your niece, but really it's tough love for you.  Please, help yourself by saving yourself first.  Let your niece live on her own or get evicted.  Mabye then she'll have a breakdown, hit bottom and decide to get professional help, because getting professional help will seem like her only remaining option.  Please don't let your couch be an option for her.  All that does is prolong her misery and include you in it.

[ForeverDad]

A pwBPD, like an alcoholic or drug addict or similar, likely won't "hit bottom" until there is no other option.  Problem is, no one can state in advance when that might be.  You might think, "This time it's her bottom", yet the chaos, blaming and rages continue.  You might think she's bottomed out many times and still she doesn't reverse course and truly seek help.  No one can predict how many false bottoms.

The only way to recognize a true bottom is when she seeks real help and diligently applies it in her life, perceptions and behavior over an extended period of time.  There are no quick fixes.  Granted, she would "fall off the wagon" but true recovery means she would get back up and keep working on herself.  It would be a long, long series of "two steps forward and one step back".

That's IF and WHEN she chooses recovery.  She may never fully recover, to be realistic, but in the spirit of "something is better than nothing", it would be an improvement for herself and those around her.