Experience with Therapy that Backfires?

[Intotheforest]

Hi there,
I am wondering if anyone has experience with their PWBPD or uBPD entering into therapy to help them manage the chaos in their lives, not the condition itself, ultimately resulting in a therapist reinforcing their skewed perspectives and outlook?

[Notwendy]

I think this is what happened with my BPD mother. I didn't attend therapy with her so I don't know what was discussed, but it seems she didn't make progress with it.

[Deb]

My dBPD sister has a talent for picking therapists that she can manipulate. None of her children will do therapy with her now. If she can't manipulate the therapist, she quits.

[zachira]

There are many disordered clients who are adept at manipulating therapists. It is common in marital therapy for a narcissist to manipulate the therapist into believing that the other spouse is the problem. A well known trait of many disordered people including those with BPD is to be able to appear normal when in the public eye while being abusive to their close family members and partners in private.

[Intotheforest]

Thanks for these replies. It's such a difficult thing to make sense of as the non-disordered person. Even now I find myself having to ground myself intentionally whenever I have an interaction with her. She has surrounded herself with people who validate and support her, normalizing the chaos she sows and ignoring the patterns. I think one of the hardest things for me in trying to understand her treatment of me through the years has been trusting my experiences and holding her accountable when those around her (and me, in the case of my FOO) look the other way, normalize, and even justify it. It's a wonder any sibling or child comes through it with a solid, clear sense of Self.

[zachira]

In Spanish we say: "Tell me who you hang out with, I will tell you who you are." Certainly one of the most painful and challenging part of being in a highly dysfunctional family are the flying monkeys, the enablers of the behaviors of the most disordered family members. While my parents were alive, I literally spent hundreds of hours listening to my parents bad mouth scapegoated siblings who turned out to be nice people; certainly they were very kind to me. I realized just how disordered my parents were, when my scapegoated aunt took care my siblings and me for a week, while my parents were stuck on the other side of the country. The demeaning tone of my parents' voices when they talked about having to thank my aunt was just heartbreaking. This sort of thing happens over and over again to this day with the golden children doing horrible things still being kept on a pedestal while the scapegoats are put down no matter how generous and kind they are to other family members.

[Deb]

Zachira, this is so true:



People that only know my sister superficially,  describe her as "sweet" and just don't understand how her family can be no contact. That same thing applied to my dNPD brother-in-law. I don't try to explain things to people because unless they've been on the receiving end,  they won't get it. My BIL is gone now, my sister is almost 77. I don't hate my sister.  In fact, I really feel mostly nothing. I feel a little sadness for what could have been if she had gotten treatment. But I don't dwell on it.

[Notwendy]

I think one of the hardest things for me in trying to understand her treatment of me through the years has been trusting my experiences and holding her accountable when those around her (and me, in the case of my FOO) look the other way, normalize, and even justify it. It's a wonder any sibling or child comes through it with a solid, clear sense of Self.

I don't think I did have a solid sense of self- or at least entirely one as a young adult once out of the home. I think I had enough of one to be able to leave, go to college, establish my own life.

The "self"was both mature for my age- having being parentified but my self esteem was shaky and I didn't have the self confidence some of my peers had.  BPD wasn't well known at the time. I knew something wasn't OK with BPD mother, but didn't know what. I knew enough to go to counseling when I started college. It's been a learning experience unraveling it all. 

[Intotheforest]

People that only know my sister superficially,  describe her as "sweet" and just don't understand how her family can be no contact. That same thing applied to my dNPD brother-in-law. I don't try to explain things to people because unless they've been on the receiving end,  they won't get it. My BIL is gone now, my sister is almost 77. I don't hate my sister.  In fact, I really feel mostly nothing. I feel a little sadness for what could have been if she had gotten treatment. But I don't dwell on it.

Exactly. As I worked through the process of trying to understand, I went from self-blame to confusion to grief to sadness...and now I am moving to feeling mostly nothing. Maybe that's acceptance? I do still have flares of resentment and second-guessing myself when she attempts to blame the state of our relationship on me but those are fewer and further between. I still find myself wishing I could explain to others, but have largely accepted that would be futile and would likely backfire. Mostly, though, I'm thankful to have been able to recognize it for what it was, see its impact, and take measures to remove/protect myself and my own family from it. When things get hard, I focus on that.

[Methuen]

I always say my mom refused therapy including when my father or I offered (at different times) to go together with her.  This is true over her lifetime, but there was a one time exception...

I cannot say exactly what happened because I was not there. But she came back from her counselling session ranting and raving and saying terrible things about the counsellor (whom I happened to know but mom didn't know that) including what a terrible person she was and how she shouldn't be a counsellor, and how  mom would never ever see another counsellor again in her life after that...blah blah blah. Typical BPD reaction.  This counsellor is actually an exceptional person, and I've known her for many years.  It's a small town, and I've lived here almost all my life and through my career, I also know a lot of people and families.  According to mom, the counsellor told her she could get all the support she needed from her daughter, and she didn't need a counsellor.  This was such BS, it's laughable! It was mom telling me what she wanted me to hear, but lying and saying the counsellor had said it.  They twist everything. And boy, she laid the pressure on me thick. Guilt guilt, fear, guilt, obligation, guilt, guilt, guilt.

I cannot tell you how many times my mom repeated to me what she "claimed" the counsellor had said, always implying it was my job to be her emotional caretaker and counsellor, and she did this over 2 decades. 

They are relentless in their drive to have their needs met.  So yah, it backfired.

People that only know my sister superficially,  describe her as "sweet" and just don't understand how her family can be no contact.

Sigh.  I can't tell you how many people described my mom this way - but nearly everybody who knew her.  When people said that to me, it was like cutting me up from the inside out, because when everyone else says that, we question ourselves, even though we know our own truth!  People on this board understand the very real "pain" this well meaning, but completely false statement can have on each of us.  I think without the lived experience, people can't "get it".  Here, we "get it".

[Notwendy]

I still find myself wishing I could explain to others, but have largely accepted that would be futile and would likely backfire.

I felt the same way. These people already believed her and it would only make me look bad to say something that could imply that what she said was wrong.

Because of this, I was estranged from her FOO for some time. It was embarrasing to be around them- having them think I was the problem. I know they thought that, because someone hit "reply all" on a group email chain and they actually said it. I was so shocked, and embarrassed.

After some time, they did see things in a different light when, after being around BPD mother, her behavior became more obvious to them, but by then, a lot of emotional distance had come between us and required some relationship repair.

When I was a teenager, she blamed me for the issues in her relationship with my father. I actually believed that when I left for college, my family would somehow be "normal" then. I know now that it wasn't true.

My BPD mother's perception of people was influenced by her projections, not reality or the actual truth about anyone, me or anyone else.

[Pook075]

My BPD daughter seemed like a world-class expert at manipulating therapists.  But maybe that's not what was actually happening.

For therapy to help, a bond must be built and trust has to be earned.  So when my daughter went into therapy and ranted about everyone in her life, the therapist would show compassion.  They had no choice because they had to build trust.  And if we're being honest here, BPDs are suffering emotionally whether their perception is correct or invalid.  The suffering is real regardless and it does deserve compassion.

BPDs always have a faorite person as well, and if the therapist does their job right, they'll be a candidate for that title.  My daughter would notoriously accept any advice she agreed with from a session and ignore anything that she didn't like, coming out of therapy saying something like, "My therapist thinks you're a complete monster that ruined my life." 

The therapist never said that, at least not in that way, and there was a big lead-up saying how my kid could improve her relationship with dad by being kind and patient.  But my kid heard what she heard, making it seem like the therapy is a disaster and counter-productive.

What's the alternative though?  The therapist can be direct and blunt, and my kid would never return.  Or the therapist can build a relationship and aim for small gains over time.  It's one or the other.

So don't take what a BPD says about therapy at face value; it's not the full story and it's the best they can get for where they're at mentally.  Until they're ready to actively change, nothing will happen.  It's still beneficial for them to have that relationship though over time to build trust and steer past the worst of their obstacles.