Finding the "BEST" Custody Arrangement

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have been married to uBPDw / uNPDw for 15 years, and we've had one child together (She's 3 and a half). I have been very conflicted for many years but I am now very near the point of filing for divorce.

One of the most important items that I cannot figure out is, what's the "best" custody arrangement for my D3? Personally I will be absolutely devistated losing any time with her. I've been working at home 3 out of 5 days for her entire life, and I've been as involved, if not more involved, with raising her. So the "automatic" concept of every other weekend blah blah just seems like it will be a complete shock. And obviously *I* don't want that, but again, I'm trying to focus on my daughter and what's best for her.

I hope you don't mind this question or find it out of line. I'm not technically split from my pwBPD but it seems almost inevitable at this point. I'm trying to do as much "research" as I can before jumping into this major decision.

Thank you.

DB

[DaddyBear77]

I have been married to uBPDw / uNPDw for 15 years, and we've had one child together (She's 3 and a half). I have been very conflicted for many years but I am now very near the point of filing for divorce.

One of the most important items that I cannot figure out is, what's the "best" custody arrangement for my D3? Personally I will be absolutely devistated losing any time with her. I've been working at home 3 out of 5 days for her entire life, and I've been as involved, if not more involved, with raising her. So the "automatic" concept of every other weekend blah blah just seems like it will be a complete shock. And obviously *I* don't want that, but again, I'm trying to focus on my daughter and what's best for her.

I hope you don't mind this question or find it out of line. I'm not technically split from my pwBPD but it seems almost inevitable at this point. I'm trying to do as much "research" as I can before jumping into this major decision.

Thank you.

DB

[teapay]

A)   If your W is higher functional and can take care of your child without abusing the child, and presuming that you can afford it, it is perfectly reasonable for you to fight strongly with all you got for 50/50 custody.

B)   If your W is not functional enough to adequately take care of your child, then it is preferred that you fight strongly with all you got for as much custody as you can get above 50/50 and majority of decision making authority.

What do you think is best for the child and would you hesitate for a second pursuing any of these?  If you wish to maintain at least your current level of interaction and time with your child, document as much as possible your current level of time and your contribution.

[takingandsending]

Hi, DaddyBear77

I am sorry that you are going through this tough process. I am in it, too with STBuBPDxw and S5 and S11. If you have been an active, involved parent for your daughter, performing parenting duties during your work at home days, or even if you simply ended those days early to cook, give bath, etc. for your daughter, most "experts" consider that maintaining that routine with as little disruption as possible is best for your child.

I hate to say it, because it will possibly accelerate the process and you sound maybe like you're not quite sure you're ready (100% understandable), but you probably should speak to an attorney to get information on how courts preside on this in your state. In my state, they are very reluctant to disrupt the status quo. So, the task is to establish just how often and what types of involvement you have in raising your daughter. You want to make the case that you are actually quite a bit more involved than just weekends - daycare or preschool drop offs, pick ups, arrange play dates, involved in activities.

If you do seek advice of an attorney, interview a few and make certain they have: a) experience in cases with BPD/NPD spouses, and b) experience arguing such cases in court, not just walking a client through the legal paperwork.

Where do you think your wife's sentiments lie on custody? For example, my wife is a little more willing to consider 53 (her)/47 (me) custody because she actually gets very stressed out caring for our sons and wants more time for herself. She will insist that she IS primary care giver, but in truth, she doesn't like being a mom.

[lpheal]

One of the most important items that I cannot figure out is, what's the "best" custody arrangement for my D3? Personally I will be absolutely devistated losing any time with her. I've been working at home 3 out of 5 days for her entire life, and I've been as involved, if not more involved, with raising her. So the "automatic" concept of every other weekend blah blah just seems like it will be a complete shock. And obviously *I* don't want that, but again, I'm trying to focus on my daughter and what's best for her.

DB

I just wanted to reach out and share that this is the issue that concerns me the most as well. I have a D2.5, and two weekends a month would feel like I have abandoned her.

[FamilyLaw]

If anyone ever tells you that you will have every other weekend parenting time because you are a dad, run in the opposite direction.  

More and more jurisdictions are granting or even requiring 50/50 parenting time, even for young children.  If you have been working from home 3 days a week to be with your child, you are already doing 50/50.  A decent lawyer should be able to make sure you have at least that going forward.

With little kids, its all in how you structure 50/50 time.  While week on/week off may work for middle and high schoolers, with little guys its probably better to do a 5-2-2-5 or 3-4-4-3 plan, so that each parent has as much time with the child with the shortest periods of being apart.  You should be able to get this by showing the Court how active and involved you are.

[DaddyBear77]

First of all, I am amazingly grateful for the advice. This is exactly the kind of guidance I was seeking.

I will say that as soon as I posted this, I kept thinking about it and came to my own conclusion that nothing less than 50/50 would be acceptable. I have spoken to one lawyer, and they agreed, but this was a couple years ago, so it's time to refresh my understanding. I am about 99% convinced that separation / divorce is my next step, so seeing an attorney is more than appropriate for me.

I will also say this - my uBPDw / uNPDw has explicitly stated she will fiercely oppose me getting ANY time alone with D3 - she says I can "visit any time." The reason for this stance has nothing to do with me as a father. She is convinced my parents are a "serious emotional threat" (they are not) and if I am to be left alone I will "expose" D3 to certain emotional abuse. THIS is why I am so concerned with what will happen during the custody phase.

But this isn't a post asking for family law advice, it's a post about what's best for D3, and I clearly have some good answers / advice so thank you everyone so much.

DB

[Torched]

First of all, I am amazingly grateful for the advice. This is exactly the kind of guidance I was seeking.

I will say that as soon as I posted this, I kept thinking about it and came to my own conclusion that nothing less than 50/50 would be acceptable. I have spoken to one lawyer, and they agreed, but this was a couple years ago, so it's time to refresh my understanding. I am about 99% convinced that separation / divorce is my next step, so seeing an attorney is more than appropriate for me.

I will also say this - my uBPDw / uNPDw has explicitly stated she will fiercely oppose me getting ANY time alone with D3 - she says I can "visit any time." The reason for this stance has nothing to do with me as a father. She is convinced my parents are a "serious emotional threat" (they are not) and if I am to be left alone I will "expose" D3 to certain emotional abuse. THIS is why I am so concerned with what will happen during the custody phase.

But this isn't a post asking for family law advice, it's a post about what's best for D3, and I clearly have some good answers / advice so thank you everyone so much.

DB

I just exited my divorce stage with 50/50 custody.  40 yo dad with a D10 and S13.  Was at least a 50% parent from birth, feeding (making all meals), caring for (all dr's appts and sick days home with the kids) etc. etc.  Plus involved in school and extracurriculars where she was not.

For me, she agreed before hand to 50/50 "because I was such a great dad."  Until meeting with her attorney, it then fell apart and I had to fight VERY hard... .to the point of dropping an attorney who didn't understand why 40% custody was not enough (I told him he needed to listen when I said she was mentally ill and it was about my kids, not myself).

I am going to tell you something you need to hear.  Before you do ANYTHING, start documenting your daily childcare duties.  Make a table with morning, daytime, and evening columns for meals provided, driving, doctor visits, etc and start filling it out EVERY DAY.  Get doctor visit reports at the office that might show that you were the one taking your child for well visits/sick visits etc.  Get letters from daycare providers who have seen you as a dad delivering your child and picking them up, describing how they see you as a dad.

When you have your first child custody hearing or court interaction to discuss this with your attorneys and a referee, have a couple of months of this plus the documents in a binder and be prepared to argue your case and offer to provide this to the referee.  When I went, I had nothing but my word and believe me they are used to seeing deadbeat dads and they don't want to hear it.  If you truly care, prepare well in advance and be ready to fight for your child.

[Turkish]

What's best for your daughter is joint custody. Don't even validate what her mother days says. I got joint custody for then D1 and S4 (just turned 4), and this was standard. It's 3-2-2-3 (3s being Friday evening through Monday morning). Don't give an inch less.  We filed with the court but we didn't have to appear in court (my ex was scared of this,  I think,  based upon her bad behaviors being exposed). I didn't telegraph this. The more detached and business like you can be the better.  I repeatedly put it in terms like,  "this arrangement protects all of us equally." I was,  however,  prepared to fight.

The more time you get with your daughter the better for her. 

[ForeverDad]

If anyone ever tells you that you will have every other weekend parenting time because you are a dad, run in the opposite direction.

More and more jurisdictions are granting or even requiring 50/50 parenting time, even for young children.  If you have been working from home 3 days a week to be with your child, you are already doing 50/50.  A decent lawyer should be able to make sure you have at least that going forward.

With little kids, its all in how you structure 50/50 time.  While week on/week off may work for middle and high schoolers, with little guys its probably better to do a 5-2-2-5 or 3-4-4-3 plan, so that each parent has as much time with the child with the shortest periods of being apart.  You should be able to get this by showing the Court how active and involved you are.

FamilyLaw doesn't post very often but when FL does, it is priceless.  Listen well!  Don't let anyone discourage you from such sound advice!

Weekends... .  On the one hand, courts have found that alternate weekends works well for nearly all people.  There are some exceptions such as for emergency workers who have to work the majority of weekends.  But nearly all orders end up with alternate weekends or 2/3 weekends a month.  Viewed practically, it gives each parent one weekend 'off' and one entire weekend to be with the children and free to go to amusement parks, movies, trips to grandparents, weddings, mini-vacations, etc without feeling monitored, second-guessed or hounded.

Between the weekends... .  The big problem is how the weekdays are split between the parents.  You can expect an entitled spouse to demand and expect the lion's share of parenting.  It is part and parcel with the disordered territory, around here is is much less common for a PD person to wander off in adult activity pursuits.

It is very important to remember, especially when stbEx is guilting you, that your goals on custody and parenting are both valid and important.  Sadly, society in past decades decided that mothers were better with parenting and the courts are only slowly moving away from that perception.  Look up Tender Years Doctrine.  So you not only have to deal with an Ex who won't reasonable share the children, you have a legal system that is more than willing to topple in that direction.  Here's what happened when my then-stbEx's lawyer tried to make a deal... .

In my own case, I recall when the custody evaluation came out solidly in my favor, though also indicating we should start with Shared Parenting trying to make that work.  The court ordered a Settlement Conference next.  It only lasted about 5 minutes or so.  She reached over the table and with her hand like a claw said she'd claw my eyes out if I tried to get custody.  That was that, the attempt failed, not a surprise.  But before we started I had been sitting alone with my lawyer when her lawyer walked in and sat down.  He explained he was divorced and had alternate weekends.  He asked me to consider that.  In a very rare instance of my mind picking out the absolute best response, I told him, "That sounds fine but I don't think your client would like alternate weekends."   He didn't say another word, he of course already knew the CE's report favored me.  But did you notice the assumption he tried to saddle on me?  So many today have the perception that fathers should only expect to get alternate weekends as sometimes dads.

My temp order was very favorable to my spouse, she had temp custody and I had alternate weekends and (sometimes) a 3 hour evening in between.  So of course she felt enabled to delay any improvements during the divorce and so it was nearly 2 years in the divorce process before I managed to get the final decree.  When I arrived at court on Trial Day I was informed she was finally ready to settle.  The Custody Evaluator had recommended trying Shared Parenting (it failed of course but he wanted us to try) and so we were to have equal time.  Since most of our confrontations were at exchanges, I wanted exchanges as few as possible, namely, alternate 7-day weeks.  The CE said No, our kid had just started kindergarten and he didn't want such long separations part of the regular schedule, not until he was 10 years old or so.  He advocated the 2/2/3 (or 2/2/5/5) schedule.  We each got alternate 3-day weekends, Friday to Sunday overnights.  She took Monday & Tuesday overnights.  I took Wednesday & Thursday overnights, I liked that for school purposes since more assignments are likely due in the latter part of the school week.

As FamilyLaw noted, you are already spending significant time with your child even if some of that time is while working.  Don't let your parenting get diminished, invalidated or dismissed as inconsequential.  So if your lawyer is skeptical on whether you can get at least 50% parenting time, then you probably should consider whether you need a more resourceful, proactive and strategy-oriented lawyer.  Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger in their SPLITTING handbook emphasize that people in our cases need problem solving attorneys.  Form filers and hand holders are not enough for our needs.  We need strategies, proactive tactics.  If you are familiar with competitive sports, you'll know that teams that get stuck playing Defense and little Offense have a very hard time winning.

[ForeverDad]

It will be difficult for either of you to get 'full' custody for the major issues.  I've concluded courts don't want to shut out a parent from parenting, so joint custody is typical.  The problem is that when you have joint custody with an entitled, obstructive, oppositional Ex then you end up with recurring impasses where you shouldn't appease or comply to Ex's demands and Ex won't budge.   So what to do if it doesn't rise to the level of being categorized by court as 'actionable' poor behaviors?  Always go to court with this as part of your strategy, to resolve the current and future impasses by you having Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  It will still be joint custody so you both are involved and Ex can still claim it is joint to others.  The difference is that when an impasse occurs then you can proceed without months of delay in court or mediation.  (Yes, if you have DM | TB then your Ex might take you to court but as long as your choice or decision wasn't unreasonable, you have little to fear there.)

While full legal custody is optimal in high conflict cases, Tie-Breaker or Decision-Making are close seconds and easier to get or keep.  While sole custody feels so much better, there's not all that much difference, here's how the concepts work in general terms:

Sole Custody
   Make decisions and inform other parent as appropriate

Decision Making
   Make decisions and inform other parent as appropriate

Tie Breaker
   Ask other parent, if tied then proceed and inform other parent as appropriate

Typical Joint Custody
   If no agreement on a major issue (medical, school, religious, etc)
   then parents turn to mediation, court, etc.

As you can tell, there's not all that much difference.  So if you can't get sole custody then advocate for DM ot TB.  Something is better than nothing.  The ex can always take things to mediation or court, just as you can.  Of course, sole custody is safer and more likely to withstand sabotage, but many courts are reluctant to award sole custody to one parent, they prefer not to declare a Winner and a Loser.  So DM or TB are more palatable all around, court likes the nonjudgmental middle ground, ex saves face and you get to proceed with minimally sabotaged parenting.

Very often court wants to find a middle ground rather than declare a parent 100% winner, that is, not grant all of one parent's requests.  Our member david recounts how his Ex arrived in court with complaints, he arrived with a list of a dozen clauses to improve the existing order.  He got all but one.  He thinks it was how he worded that one.  The point is that you don't ask for only the bare minimum, determine with your lawyer what you can ask additional so that (1) you can gift a little away so your Ex can feel she won or (2) the judge can find a couple minor things to nix yet grant what you really need.

[flourdust]

IAlways go to court with this as part of your strategy, to resolve the current and future impasses by you having Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  It will still be joint custody so you both are involved and Ex can still claim it is joint to others.  The difference is that when an impasse occurs then you can proceed without months of delay in court or mediation.  (Yes, if you have DM | TB then your Ex might take you to court but as long as your choice or decision wasn't unreasonable, you have little to fear there.)

Good advice, I think. I'm going through custody evaluation now, and I planted that idea in the evaluator's mind. I also stressed that as much as I thought my ex and I were mostly on the same page with major parenting decisions, I feel a need for a parenting plan that removes as much ambiguity as possible, because of her difficulty collaborating in a non-confrontational way.

We'll have to see if any of that makes it into his recommendations.

[Grey Kitty]

I will also say this - my uBPDw / uNPDw has explicitly stated she will fiercely oppose me getting ANY time alone with D3 - she says I can "visit any time." The reason for this stance has nothing to do with me as a father. She is convinced my parents are a "serious emotional threat" (they are not) and if I am to be left alone I will "expose" D3 to certain emotional abuse.

Clearly, your wife believes she is a good and capable parent.

Presumably, any attempt to take any part of custody away from her will be viewed as an attack, and she will (at least initially) respond to it accordingly.

However, when it comes to actually living up to all the responsibilities of parenting, she may not be as good as she thinks, and may not be doing as much as she thinks she is. She may gear up for the fight because she has to "win" it... .even though her skills and temperament are better suited to part-time parenting, perhaps even less than 50/50 custody.

And as D3 gets older and more independent, her ability to be a good parent will probably decline.

Once things settle into a custody situation, she might end up letting you take some of her time, as that is easier for her.

You know her--you can guess what she is likely to do.

[ForeverDad]

She says I can "visit anytime".

Without a firm schedule and clear exchange format, then her concept of "anytime" will be according to her subjective perceptions, her mood-based demands, your compliance to her demands and who knows how many other factors she dreams up.  Sorry, child is sick this week.  Sorry, child has a party/event to attend then.  Sorry, whatever.  I'm angry at you so you can't see your child.  Etc.

The initial temp order often blends virtually unchanged into a final order.  And it's an uphill struggle (think Sisyphus pushing that boulder up that mountain every day) to get it corrected.  I encourage you to stand firm for the most favorable terms you can get.  Let her 'win' some non-essentials but stand firm for as much parenting time and custodial authority as you can get.

I recall when I filed for divorce and we got a hearing two months later.  The magistrate defaulted her to a standard temp order - mother get temp custody and mother gets majority time.  My divorce lawyer turned to me, whispered, ":)on't say anything, we'll fix it later."  (He had estimated a divorce with children at 7-9 months.  The problem with our temp orders around here is that 'temporary' is anything but temporary.  That was my second temp order.  The first prior to the divorce filing lasted about 4 months.  This second one, same as the first except I also paid child support, was in force just a few weeks shy of two years.  The court had at least two opportunities to improve it when professionals recommended I get more parenting but did nothing.

The point is that if you sit around for the courts to figure things out, you will have been playing Defense while your spouse was playing Offense.  I'm told that in competitive sports the team playing Defense has a very hard time winning.  That's why you should be proactive for yourself as well as your children.  While you don't want to be perceived as unreasonably aggressive, you do need solid strategies and good boundaries.