Maybe past the point of no return

[coworkerfriend]

Since I posted three weeks ago, things have not gotten any better at all with my pwBPD.  He is refusing to eat - he refuses to work - he doesn't sleep.  His mental condition has really deteriorated since the beginning of the year.  He is constantly blaming me for not understanding what he needs and not "helping" him through his hard time.  He keeps telling me that he is crying out for help and lashes out at me for the pain he is in.  It is like every "bad" thing that ever happened in his head is playing on repeat.  He tells me that I can't help him - he has to help himself and then is furious when I don't do anything.   The other night, he called me 25 times and texted me almost 100 times between 2am and 4:30am. I have consistently told him that i can't talk to him when he is yelling at me.  I am at a loss.  There is no validating him.  There seems to be no end in sight to this cycle.  I am worn out and I am broken.  I am trying to keep it together for the business - I am trying to keep it together for myself. 

I think we have passed the point of no return.  I don't see any way for him to move past this current mental state. 

The last time I posted, I had been reading about the beliefs that keep you stuck.  I know I have been stuck.  GK suggested I write about them and I have been trying - I am struggling to get my thoughts out. 

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness
This one is hard to me to write about.  I struggle with my logical brain and my emotional brain with this one.  Logically, I know that he isn’t the key to my happiness.  Emotionally, this is tough.  I do not have any self-confidence - I have never had any self-confidence.  When I first met him, I was instantly attracted to him.  He is incredibly smart, funny and good looking. I never thought someone like him would be interested in me.  I struggled with my weight – I have low self-esteem.  I lost quite a bit a weight and I saw him at a work function.  We knew each other but that day, he flirted with me and it felt like there was an instant connection.  We made it a point to seek each other out at work related seminars and events – before long, we had gone to lunch – dinner.  I started going to his office – we had so much in common.  After about a year, we decided to go into business together.  This business was my dream – actually more than a dream –it was something I never thought I would be able to do. He pushed hard for us to do it – he said he believed in me which was something I never had anyone say in my life.  I think my head is tangled up in his believing in me and me not wanting to live without him in my life. I can’t imagine coming to the business we built and him not being here.  Not that he does much work but I find some sort of strange sense of security when he is here. 
   
2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel and Belief that the relationship problems are caused by some circumstance or by you

I know he does love me but to him, I have become the source of his problems.   The reality of it is that our life together is complicated – between the business and our family obligations, it is hard to focus on one part of our problems. With the black & white thinking, he looks at me and I have trapped him in this life he doesn’t want.  It is an easy place for him to focus on and for a very long time, I blamed myself. 
   
   
4) Belief that love can prevail

This is a fantasy that I need to let go of.  Love will not conquer a mental illness.   I can not love him enough to make any of our problems go away


   
5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"
For whatever reason, probably the million recycles, I do hold on the belief that we can return to the way it used to be - we have done it for periods of time – things seem nice, normal – he seems self-aware and that he wants to improve.  He hates when he dysregulates and is in a bad place in his head – I know how much he struggles with this.  I guess I have to face the fact that there is no the way it used to be.  I used to say to him that I could deal with the bad times because the good times outweighed the bad.  I don’t know if I believe that anymore. We do very easily slip into our “routine” when his head is in a good place. I think that is a really bad habit for both of us – it doesn’t give either one of us space to work on ourselves. 
   
I feel like a jumbled mess.  I feel that I am lost and I can't find my path.  I hope somehow I can find myself again.  Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[coworkerfriend]

Another thing that I think I am getting confused on is that he tells me he feels nothing for me - that I represent all the bad things in his life.  He says he can't stand to look at me.  He tells me over and over to leave him alone and when I do that, he spirals out of control - calls and texts nonstop.  I know that is part of the condition, I just don't know how to handle it.  Over the past five years of dealing with this, I think I made progress.  But then I lose touch with it.  I let myself get caught in the storm.  It hasn't passed and this time, I don't know if it will. 

[allienoah]

Hi!
I can definitely relate to being stuck and trying to conquer those beliefs. I try every day to get past being so stuck! My BP boyfriend is truly trying to use the tools his therapist gives him to improve, but unfortunately he very easily slips right back into the behaviors that make me want to run. But I can't. I have tried extinction and have suffered the bursts. I have tried to detach lovingly and find I always end up at the same point. I get anxious imagining him not in my life. It is very complicated. My 2 20-something year old children hate him, as they've seen and heard the outbursts and neediness. Still I defend him. Hang in there by taking care of yourself and your business. You need to be well to make lucid decisions. I am trying to do the same... .

[coworkerfriend]

My pwBPD has been going to therapy for years.  I found out recently that he has been lying and refocusing the sessions to avoid helping himself.  He knows he has BPD - he is very self aware. 

I don't know why I panic every time he says the relationship is over.  I should accept it - it would probably be the best for both of us.  He loses his mind if I detach with love - that makes him push me away even more.  I continue to participate in this very unhealthy cycle and I know I have to make the changes to stop my part in it.

I have been trying so hard to hang in there - I can't sleep - I can't eat.   My work is piling up around me.  I cant see any positive outcome.

[allienoah]

You know, I honestly think my pwBPD is twisting the truth with his therapist as well. I am pretty smart-outside of staying in this relationship-and I can't believe his therapist would encourage and support his behavior. He tells me he is honest with his therapist, but no way do I believe it nor can I prove it. The panic is the worst part, when he says it's over. Even when I say it's over I feel good for a few hours then go right into panic mode. it is completely unhealthy. I have to face the fact that I put too much validation in having a partner. The positive outcome-as we fight to gain our own selves back-will be for us to be healthy and not put up with this anymore. I know I can be happy eventually but I am just not ready. it's too stressful to consider him not loving me anymore.

[Grey Kitty]

Another thing that I think I am getting confused on is that he tells me he feels nothing for me - that I represent all the bad things in his life.

And even that is contradicting itself! Feeling nothing is really far from thinking you represent all the bad things in his life!

He says he can't stand to look at me.  He tells me over and over to leave him alone and when I do that, he spirals out of control - calls and texts nonstop.

He gives you horribly mixed messages. It is horribly confusing. Here are two ways to resolve the confusion.

1. If the mixed message is one between words and actions, ignore the words and believe the actions.

2. Radical acceptance of how quickly and powerfully his mood changes.

One minute he feels one way. And says and does sincerely meant things to you based on that feeling.

Another minute he feels differently. And says and does sincerely meant things to you based on the new feeling.

He doesn't have the kind of stable core to himself that will carry from one moment to the next as his feelings change. It is as if he doesn't even remember that he said and meant the opposite three minutes ago.

The other night, he called me 25 times and texted me almost 100 times between 2am and 4:30am.

Do you turn your phone off at night while you are asleep?

Letting this mess up your sleep while you are trying to deal with this much stress is a really bad idea for you!

[coworkerfriend]

The mixed messages are killing me.  If I respond based on his actions, ignore the fact that he tells me he wants to be alone, he gets agitated and angry.  If I ignore that he tells me he can't eat and prepare food for him - he throws it out. 

If I leave him alone, he calls and texts me nonstop.  I do turn off my phone at night now - I had to start doing that.  He calls to tell me to leave him alone when I do leave him alone.  Then he gets mad about being left alone - says I am too busy for him. 

He left the office mad the other day about something - I ignored his calls for hours.  I tried to focus on work.  At one point, he called me 53 times in an hour.  Wednesday and Thursday - he says he wants to get his head together - he needs my help - is quiet and focused on work.  By 3pm today, he is going home and going to bed - he can't work and he can't be in a relationship with me.  He vented for an hour and left.  What am I supposed to do?  I try to listen - be empathetic and supportive.   

Logically I understand the dynamics that goes on.  I feel like I freeze when he dysregulates - I can't process any thoughts rationally. I don't know how to stop this cycle.  I really feel at a loss.

[flourdust]

If I can raise another question -- not that I want to add to your burden -- you've commented that you want to save the business and that you have employees. If I was an employee at this place, I'd notice that the bosses are fighting like nuts and one of them is crazy and has checked out. I'd be looking for another job on the sly.

Do you need to get him out of the business before you lose your employees? They can probably see what is going on.

[coworkerfriend]

That is a major concern of mine. We pay them very well in hopes that they can tolerate some of the drama.  Plus our offices are somewhat isolated from them.   But the worry that we will lose someone is always on my mind. I know they see some of it.  I am as candid as I can be.  I work very hard to keep the business stable and successful.

I do not know how to handle the situations any longer.  When he does work, he is good at what he does.  This cycle has been going on for too long.  I don't know how to stop it. 

[Grey Kitty]

Logically I understand the dynamics that goes on.  I feel like I freeze when he dysregulates - I can't process any thoughts rationally. I don't know how to stop this cycle.  I really feel at a loss.

Sounds like more distorted thinking on your part--you are thinking that you should be able to do something about his dysregulations.

You really can't do anything. All you can do is decide whether to stay there while it is aimed at you... .or remove yourself and let him aim it elsewhere.

I know it is hard to do anything when you are in the middle of it--At those times, the primitive, reptilian part of your brain can only fight, flee, or freeze. It sounds like yours tends toward freezing. That's hard to overrule.

[coworkerfriend]

That is true.  I can not do anything.   I can not control anything.  I can say that over and over but somewhere inside of me, I still want to fix it.  I want to make things better.

I have been removing myself from being around him when it is aimed at me or I should say  I try to remove myself.  That is when the endless calls and texts begin.  I never really had the fight instinct in me - I truly freeze when it happens.  For years, I tried to fix the situation or problems.  Not just for him but pretty much for everyone around me.  I get things done.  I know I have been doing that for years.

When faced with something I can't fix, I freeze - I stop thinking - shut myself down.  With him, I gave up trying to fix the situation so I got in the habit of waiting for it to pass.   This isn't passing.  This time, it is more intense and seems worse than other times with the length of it.  He keeps saying that something snapped and its over.  I agree with him.  But that isn't what he wants. 

[Lalathegreat]

I relate so much to everything you have posted. I think that you and I are similar type people flailing about in similar circumstances.

I especially relate to your propensity to "freeze" in a crisis. I do the same. I literally find myself completely incapable of uttering a word. This is extremely agitating for my pwBPD who loves to tell me that I'm passive and passive aggressive.

I also have a partner who loves to blame me for every wrong circumstance in his life, even the ones that I have no hand in. EVERYTHING comes down to the "stress" that I cause him by having "expectations". Which honestly means something along the lines of BREATHING. And yet, the second that I back away the accusations of abandonment begin.

I wish that I was able to give you some insight, but the truth of the matter is that I am only able to offer my sincere expression of empathy. I know how hard this is. I know how exhausting it is. I'm sorry that we're here.   Hang in there.

[Grey Kitty]

He keeps saying that something snapped and its over.  I agree with him.  But that isn't what he wants. 

Stop focusing on what he wants. What do you want?

OK, I know you want him to magically get "better", but try to accept that this isn't going to happen, that he is who he is, and will continue to behave the way he has been behaving.

What do you want for yourself under those circumstances?

[coworkerfriend]

I know I have a terrible habit of focusing on him.  Not even considering what I want.   I know there is no "getting better" - he is who he is. 

I know that I want  to work - focus on clients and staff and projects and I really want to work.  I want to let myself let go of the guilt I feel.  I feel guilty that I don't do enough for him. I feel guilty that he is still expecting me to help him and I know that I can't.    I feel guilty that I did too much and enabled him too much.  I want to accept that it didn't work out with him and that's ok.  I want to truly accept who he is.  I think I hold myself back from doing that. I want to figure out why I freeze up instead of dealing with my issues.

I want a quiet life.  I want to work - spend time outside - read - spend time with my children. 

I found a new therapist - I am hoping it will be a good fit for me.  I have to work on my issues and figure out why I feel so stuck.

[coworkerfriend]

Lalathegreat - thank you for your support and taking the time to post.  It sounds like we have been dealing with very similar situations.  I know how alone and isolating it is - I am sorry we are here too but thankful you took the time to reach out.  I hope that i can provide you with support when you need it.

[Lalathegreat]

Anytime! I am getting a lot out of this thread because so much of it applies to me. I also need to stop focusing on fixing him, managing HIS emotions (yeah right) and thinking that anything I do has any actual baring on what HE feels and does. Assuming that nothing will change, what do *I* want? That's pretty powerful stuff!

Hang in there friend, I understand.

[Grey Kitty]

I know that I want  to work - focus on clients and staff and projects and I really want to work.

That's good to know--it tells you that it is worth saving your company, even if you have to do it around him or without him. It doesn't make it easy, but it gives you a target!

(I think you are doing your best already here!)

I want a quiet life.  I want to work - spend time outside - read - spend time with my children.

There's a conclusion I'd draw from that about your life outside working hours.

He may give you many things... .but quiet, calm, and peaceful isn't going to be it. Pretty much no chance there.

Make it a priority to do the things you want after you leave the office. Without him. Perhaps some of them are things where he would be welcome to join you, but that you will enjoy without him if he doesn't, although even that sounds like a dubious idea.

(From what you say, you haven't had too much success at this... .)

I want to let myself let go of the guilt I feel.  I feel guilty that I don't do enough for him. I feel guilty that he is still expecting me to help him and I know that I can't.    I feel guilty that I did too much and enabled him too much.

Asking yourself to not feel what you are feeling is a tall order.

How about starting by listing all the things like that which you feel guilty for individually, and sorting out whether you really believe it or not? Either way the feeling is real, but what you do about it is pretty different.

[coworkerfriend]

Another week has passed - another week of trying not to get stuck in his dysregulation cycle and just focus on work.  For a few days, it seemed like he was working himself out of the cycle.   He came in - he worked - he ate lunch.  A few days of normal.  He can't keep it up.  He had a client meeting yesterday which ran longer than he expected.  When it was over, he came in my office and was upset that it lasted so long and ruined his night.   I didn't get a chance to try and validate  - I really didn't get a chance to say anything.  Within minutes, he was yelling he hates his life - he cant stand work and he was gone. Earlier in the day, we planned on having dinner.  I stopped by on the way home to check in and he was in bed.  He was furious with me for not helping him when he needed it and really worked himself up.   I stayed longer than I should have - I fought back a bit.  I know I shouldn't have but I am tired and I couldn't stop myself. 

He called this am to tell me that he is spending the day in bed - he can't work.  This happens every single weekend.  Every single weekend, he spends in bed.  Mad at me for letting him stay in bed - not checking on him - not helping him.   I know he is crying out for help.  He is stuck.  I am stuck.  He is stuck using me a coping mechanism - blaming me for not doing enough for him. 

I met with a new therapist this week.  I think that has me feeling unsettled.   I know it takes time - but as I was recounting the past and reflecting on the deterioration of his mental state - I was getting more and more discouraged.  My enabling - my codependency issues have to be contributing to his mental state.  That is what I feel guilty about - how much my role has played in his mental health. 

Another part of the session that is bothering me is that she suggested that I have to push him to hit bottom and force him to get inpatient treatment.   She said it is my responsibility to make him uncomfortable and realize he needs help.   I said that there is no way I could force him into treatment - that has to be his choice - he has to make that decision.  She said the only hope he has is spending some time at a facility out of town to really focus on himself.  She said that therapy will not be enough for him.    She said I hold so much power over him and its not healthy the way we deal with each other.  I agree that this isn't a healthy situation.  I told her I need to work on myself - my issues.  Why I have allowed him to dump all this frustrations on me for so many years - why I feel panic when I think about being without him.  I want to work on myself.  The session really felt all over - it was hard to describe the relationship from the beginning.  This therapist said she has many years of experience with BPD and she can tell if someone is after talking to them for 15 minutes.  She said she can sense it and there isn't much hope for him unless he commits to inpatient treatment.

When I think logically about feeling guilty for not doing enough - I know that isn't true.  If anything, I probably have done too much for him in the past and enabling his behavior.  Actually that is the truth, at the beginning of our relationship, I kept thinking if i did "x" then everything would be ok.  I did too much - I still do too much for him if I think about it.  Stupidly, I am holding on to hope that he will seek treatment and work on his issues.  Logically, I can see that nothing I do is right when he is dysregulated.  I think I spend too much time in my head thinking about all of this. It really isn't good for me.

Sorry for the rambling post, I feel scrambled and jumbled.  I can't seem to think straight.   

[patientandclear]

CWF--I hope you don't take from the session with the new therapist that there is yet another formula that would magically work if you had just committed to it.  She represents herself as expert in dealing with BPD, but I am not familiar with a model of in patient treatment that per se "resolves" BPD.  :)BT and schema therapy presumably CAN be delivered in an in-patient context, but they also can be delivered outpatient, AND most in-patient mental health treatment modalities are not going to have any real relationship to BPD dynamics.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what she's telling you, but it sounds like yet one more package of responsibility for you to undertake.

Manipulating someone to "hit bottom" is a lot like playing god.  Before doing that, withdrawing from the situation makes a lot more sense to me.  And your instinct that he needs to choose therapy for himself seems right.

I'm sure you've probably already read Amador's book on "I Am Not Sick!," but it's insightful about how all the well-intentioned ways in which people can try to maneuver another person into healing usually backfire.

I don't want to undermine your therapist!  Maybe there are nuances I'm not catching.  But I'm concerned about any new narrative in which this is now somehow your responsibility to fix.

Your current course of not fixing things for him isn't curing everything ... .but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  It sounds like he is extremely ill.  You care for him and you show it through positive connection and you also show it by letting him solve his own bad feelings.  It's easier if that kind of love is greeted with some sort of "eureka" response, like, "thank you so much for loving me so well for so long; I'm starting DBT and I'm planning to stick it out even when it doesn't feel immediately gratifying; meanwhile, what would make you feel happy and good? Because I want to attend to that."  But when it isn't, that doesn't mean your approach is wrong; you are loving your partner extremely well.  You'll need external validation for that because he isn't telling you that very frequently.

xxoo

[coworkerfriend]

P&C - you are not misunderstanding at all - you are spot on.  I told her straight out that I could not do that - I said that if and when he reaches the point of wanting treatment, I want  to support his decision.  I said a number of times that I can not make him do anything - he has to get to the point to make changes.  She even said I know it sounds like I am making it your responsibility but I am just pointing out the power you have over him.  I specifically looked for a therapist that understands BPD - my last therapist said she did but come to find out - she had just read about it.  I didn't feel like she had the qualifications to help me.  I need to focus more on my issues.  I was hopeful this new therapist could help.   I did schedule another appointment with her.  I do know it takes time but the first session did leave a lot of issues swirling around in my head.

I truly appreciate your response - I do care for him and I know that "eureka" moment isn't going to happen.  My hope is that for his sake he considers additional therapy which includes DBT and from what he has explained to me, isn't what his current therapist is trained for.  He talks about mindfulness quite a bit but struggles to implement it for more than a few days at a time. 

I am honestly feeling bad because I did fight with him last night - I was invalidating and I know it wasn't the right thing to do.  I was just so tired and frustrated - I should have left sooner than I did - I just made things worse.   I do try hard to be understanding but I feel like I really failed at it last night and a bit this am when I spoke to him.  I am going to check in with him - see how he is feeling.  I haven't heard from him all day which isn't a good sign. 

[Grey Kitty]

  Still sounds really tough for you, working with him and planning some time outside work too.

  What you are hearing from this new therapist sounds pretty solid to me... .except for the emphasis on inpatient treatment; DBT as I understand it usually is outpatient, although it is much more intense than an hour or two a week of talk therapy. Take that part with a grain of salt.

However, with a new therapist, you need a good therapist to provide good advice/insight that helps you change things. (pretty self-evident!) You also need to have a working relationship where you trust your therapist, and one where you aren't afraid to share things with one.

Even if they are qualified, you need some level of personal chemistry/connection to trust.

[coworkerfriend]

Things have been tough - really stressful.  It is getting harder for me to get up and face my day.  I know it takes time to work with a therapist - I feel like I have to do something to deal with all the issues I am facing.  The last therapist I worked with did not have any actual experience with BPD - she had read about it but besides telling me to read Stop Walking on Eggshells - she didn't have any advise.   I have scheduled another appointment with the new one - I want to see if we have the chemistry.   

I have a very hard time sharing my feelings - I have a hard time writing them down - talking about them.  I was raised to just suck it up and move on.  Over the past 6 or 7 years, I feel like I have continued to bury them more and more - I have lost myself.  While I was learning to life with a pwBPD, I was trying to survive - stabilize the business.  I conditioned myself to focus on trying to keep the chaos at as low a level as I could.  I made a lot of mistakes along the way.   I have always tried to find a bright side - and that is harder and harder to do. I don't  know what to do anymore. 

[Grey Kitty]

THIS.

This is your answer, no matter how little you like it.

I have a very hard time sharing my feelings - I have a hard time writing them down - talking about them.  I was raised to just suck it up and move on.

You learned that tool growing up. It worked for you then. You made it to adulthood with it. Honestly, it is a good one to have even today, just not for this situation.

It is no longer working well for you. (Ref: How miserable you are feeling these days!)

Figuring it out, finding other tools, other ways to cope is going to be really hard for you, but it is your way forward.

  You are tough enough to do this--you will find a new and better way.

Allowing yourself to feel these things before you stuff them, suck it up, and move on is a really good start. Even if you can only take feeling it for a minute, give it a try.