Getting Out of a Pit of Lies

[DaddyBear77]

I lie as a matter of course to my pwBPD. I need to figure out how to unwind / get out of this pit I'm in.

This is how one particular lie got started:
pwBPD: "I think you've got some serious problems. It seems like you have BPD/NPD/ASPD/What the heckPD" (*made that last one up)
me: "My T and I have discussed this and he and I agree that I don't seem to have a personality disorder"
pwBPD: "Well your T is dead wrong. You've completely lied to them and tricked them and convinced them you're fine and you're not"
(back and forth back and forth)
(finally) me: "Fine. The truth is my T DOES think I have traits associated with BPD/NPD/ASPD, but don't worry, my T is on top of it. We're going to finally make me better. Now please stop crying / raging / screaming and lets try and get some sleep"


And now, it's been refined to something quite simple:
pwBPD: "You're completely nuts! You've OBVIOUSLY got serious problems. I don't know if it's BPD/NPD/ASPD or what, but you need H E L P"
me: "I know, but I've been working on this with my T and I think we're making really good progress. I just KNOW I'll kick this some day!"

There are other threads that go almost exactly the same way - "I will rescue us from our financial problems by getting a better paying job, really, I promise" or "Oh yeah, I totally agree, my parents are SO horrible to us, and would totally abuse our daughter if we ever let them see her, which we won't. Nope, never ever" - those are just a couple other examples.


How do I get out of this?

DB

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[Notwendy]

I'm assuming you are talking about the content of the conversation, not the relationship


You don't try to change her thinking but you can change your response to this. Boundaries include accepting that two different people can have completely different world views, ideas, opinions, feelings. Boundaries include that we can not control what someone else thinks or says. We could attempt to change their minds, but expecting them to is stepping over the line.

It helps to think of situations as either my business, or their business- we can only control our side of the fence. Stepping on to their side of the fence is being co-dependent and possibly controlling--- "this is how I think and I want you to think this way too". This is what your wife is doing- and when we JADE we do this too. Both pwBPD and their partners can have co-dependent behavior. With the person with BPD- the thinking is projection and poor boundaries. They don't know where they stop and someone else begins. Feelings are also fact. If she feels you have a PD then it must be true. If she projects her fear of having a PD then it must be true.

But that is her side of the fence. Stay out of her side. What is your side? Your feeling uncomfortable that she thinks you have a PD. Do her feelings make this true? No, how can that be logical. If she believed you were an elephant- and told you that you were an elephant- would that make you one? Would you feel you needed to defend that, or would you think it was absurd.

Having strong boundaries enables us to hear what someone else says about us, then filter it- do I think this is true or not? If it isn't true, then we don't need to defend it. Trying to change their mind isn't likely to help, it is JADEing.

These conversations can be seen as drama hooks- and when we respond we add energy and focus to them. This is reinforcing. In the moment, you are all worked up and focused on her. Sometimes we too are addicted to this emotional surge and drama. We continue these things because we get hooked into it. Sometimes these comments are called an "invitation to the crazy party" but we don't have to accept.

It takes two to have these conversations. If you don't play ( add emotion) they get boring. So the next time she says " I think you have a PD" you can not react as much. One approach is humor "yeah probably everyone does" and then change the subject, or stop talking, or say you have to go to get something in a other room and just drop it. Sure she will push more- and then say "honey I love you but this is a serious subject and I would like to talk about it later" and then leave. Yes, the storm will likely follow but if you stick to your resolve to not join in these things- then perhaps the pattern will diminish. And if you find yourself easily hooked consider that the drama may be your weakness too, and try to remember this when you are feeling hooked yourself.

[DaddyBear77]

I'm assuming you are talking about the content of the conversation, not the relationship

LOL yes, the drama dance is what I was referring to, thank you :-)

What you wrote helps me make a better choice next time, which is about all we can do, I suppose.

However, where I get really stuck sometimes is the fact that I have now admitted (falsely) or committed (without actually committing) to something, and I'd like to "take it back" or "correct the record."

I think I can infer that this would be pointless, but it's also something I was referring to when I said "how do I get out of this" - how do I "take it back" or "correct the record."

[Grey Kitty]

"I was too afraid of fighting with you, so I agreed to things I knew were not true to end the fight with you. I'm not going to do that again."

That is how I'd "get out" of that situation.

Of course, she will probably be mad at you twice over when you tell her that--both for disagreeing/being wrong, and for lying about it. Still... .you created the situation, now deal with it.

You have to be willing to get out of the fight in some other way than "agreeing with her" if you do that. I think you've had advice from me or others, about how to take a time out, or how to leave a conversation. Do you need a refresher?

[Notwendy]

It takes two to dance the drama dance. The way out is to not do the dance and learn different steps.

Just as GK said- you say I agreed to this in a moment of stress but now that I have had a chance to think about it - I do not agree.

You don't have to agree to something when you are stressed or being pressured. Saying " I need to think about this more" is an acceptable answer- maybe not to her- but it is.

Learning to withstand the storm isn't easy but it can be done with some work. Maybe your T can help you work on this.

[DaddyBear77]

You have to be willing to get out of the fight in some other way than "agreeing with her" if you do that. I think you've had advice from me or others, about how to take a time out, or how to leave a conversation. Do you need a refresher?

Thanks, GK. I am going back to reread past posts.

Learning to withstand the storm isn't easy but it can be done with some work. Maybe your T can help you work on this.

Thanks Notwendy. Yes, withstanding the storm keeps coming to mind as a huge obstacle.

Right now I'm trying to catalog all the things that are preventing me from doing what I know is right. Fear. Obligation. Guilt. It really is true about FOG. And to think, I've been doing this for the entire 17 years I've been in this relationship.

After taking a cold hard look at this post and what I've been doing all these years, I feel like the biggest fool that ever walked the Earth.

[Notwendy]

I don't think you risk being judged as a fool by anyone here- many- perhaps most- have been in your shoes one way or the other.

But there is a good part here- you looking at your own behavior- your own part in this and realizing you don't like it, that it doesn't serve you, or reflect the better part of you. This is good because our behavior is the only thing we really have control over. Change starts with you- and this realization.

Be cautious about shame. Many of us have felt shame or have been shamed. If you feel this- it is OK- let the feeling be- it will pass. Then back to looking at how to change the behaviors you want to change.

Sometimes it is trial and error- we don't always get it the first time- but eventually if we keep at it- keep not participating in the drama- we can get it better.

Making a mistake doesn't mean we are a mistake. And "mistakes" could be something we learn from.

Maybe show this info to your T and ask for guidance.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, nobody here is able to call you that big a fool when we look back at what we did ourselves before we figured it out!

Right now I'm trying to catalog all the things that are preventing me from doing what I know is right. Fear. Obligation. Guilt. It really is true about FOG. And to think, I've been doing this for the entire 17 years I've been in this relationship.

You can work your way through all these. The obligation/guilt has a lot to do with believing her distorted view, and you are getting better there.

Fear is one that I remember getting past myself. Here's how it went for me:

I looked at what I was afraid of. ("Wow, If I said that, she might xxxx"

I thought about what "xxxx" was. noticed that she was certain to do "xxxx" anyways, whether I tried to stand up to her or not. And noticed that she had done "xxxx" many times before, and I had survived it.

All of a sudden, it seemed unpleasant, but not quite so scary anymore.

... .and one other thing I noticed, and this really helped a LOT! I noticed that when I didn't let my fear drive my choice of what to do, I was a lot happier with who I was and how I was living.

P.S. One lesson that might help is this one on how to take a time out... .you often find yourself in arguments where if you keep on talking or listening, you are going to lose, no matter what, and ending them is the best you can do. Give this one a read:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0