Wow... finally understood "love" as he feels it

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

For the last 6 months my marriage has been a constant battle.   We are both considering divorce.  I ask him this morning... .do you love me more, less or the same as you did 3 years ago.  He replies less.  I ask why.  He replies because of how you treated me.  I ask him if he loves his children (not living with us).  He replies yes.  If they did something terrible to you, would you love them less... .he replies:  Yes, and definitely much less if they tried to hurt me really badly... .like poisoning or such.

He has no concept of what love is.  Love is unconditional & here I married a man that I thought loved me.  No... he did not... .and no... .he does not.  He likes me when I do things for him and needs me in his life... .he doesnt want to lose me because he would lose the nice feeling of being with someone he likes.  The lightbulb went on for me when the love for his children was mentioned... .I actually have seen him only give them attention when they were "good" and hardly ever if they "needed" him.  I never saw him really grieve for the deaths of his parents... .there was no silent grieving... .just a lot of "mom was great... .let's go out and celebrate her life at the local pub". 

He has no concept of love.  I hope this resonates with others who are confused as well

[yogabrain]

For the last 6 months my marriage has been a constant battle.   We are both considering divorce.  I ask him this morning... .do you love me more, less or the same as you did 3 years ago.  He replies less.  I ask why.  He replies because of how you treated me.  I ask him if he loves his children (not living with us).  He replies yes.  If they did something terrible to you, would you love them less... .he replies:  Yes, and definitely much less if they tried to hurt me really badly... .like poisoning or such.

He has no concept of what love is.  Love is unconditional & here I married a man that I thought loved me.  No... he did not... .and no... .he does not.  He likes me when I do things for him and needs me in his life... .he doesnt want to lose me because he would lose the nice feeling of being with someone he likes.  The lightbulb went on for me when the love for his children was mentioned... .I actually have seen him only give them attention when they were "good" and hardly ever if they "needed" him.  I never saw him really grieve for the deaths of his parents... .there was no silent grieving... .just a lot of "mom was great... .let's go out and celebrate her life at the local pub". 

He has no concept of love.  I hope this resonates with others who are confused as well

[roberto516]

Great post.

I think they do "love" but it's not the subjective term that the majority of us would use to describe it. I almost got recycled this week, but I was able to remind myself that this was only happening because she needed my support this week. Once again, it was about her and no one else. So this is something that I finally needed to realize.

The pain is still there, and the wounds have been reopened a little bit, but to remind myself that love wasn't something she was capable of helps me cope.

I'm sorry you are still in this current relationship. It must be difficult. Especially with children together. You are much stronger than I.

[Stripey77]

That is interesting, but... .just one little thought. I don't entirely agree that love is unconditional. The love between parents and offspring, between family, yes. We can love someone and not like them, purely because we are related, we love them. But we can't choose our family, our parents, our children, they are who we are given, like it or not. That love is almost not an option. And as you say it is unconditional... .I am quite sure my parents will love me regardless of what I do or who I am... .but then there is no chance that I am going to do anything untoward to them, or hurt them.

Romantic love, whether dating or marriage is quite different. It was a friend who told me this some years back when we discussing our love lives, and she is right. Romantic love DOES have conditions (as do friendships) insomuch as we expect to be treated a certain way, do we not? To be treated with love and respect, with kindness, not to be abused, to be placed first, to expect loyalty and fidelity... .whatever those things that matter to most of us when we choose to enter a romantic relationship.  If someone breaks those basic requirements, sometimes repeatedly, then there comes a point when we must say is this really love? This person has broken the conditions of my giving love to them. To go on loving a romantic partner, who you have ALLOWED in to your life and CHOSEN rather than having them thrust upon you, when they have broken your boundaries  and hurt you deeply, is how people end up in abusive relationships (emotional or physical) If someone carried on hurting me on purpose (I am talking about someone who is NON BPD) I think my love would dry up, actually... .and I have got a considerable tolerance threshold. I know I  have forgiven acts that others would not, but trust me, love does come with conditions... .otherwise we become doormats.

Your partner is expressing this viewpoint albeit in a highly exaggerated, polarised way  - which is of course symptomatic of the disorder. You're either with me or against me, seems to be the stance they so often take, so like a petulant child, of course, again to be expected when we consider what we know about the emotional state BPD sufferers are in. They ARE childlike and just like children, their 'love' and 'hate' for people can switch in the blink of an eye. As I found out with my own breakup, in as little as a few hours... .I went from being adored to a non entity.  It is extremely sad and of course entirely unreasonable, because the very things that seem to trigger the 'hatred' or the taking away of 'love' are such seemingly tiny, innocuous acts. Things that we would brush off or maybe have a small discussion about, are amplified and used to beat us around the head with as if they were some kind of betrayal. Again as I say, this is how a child thinks... .you broke my doll, you're not my friend anymore... .you did it on purpose to hurt me so I'm going to hurt you more.

The saddest thing of all is that your partner extends this thought process to his children, for whom his love should in theory be unconditional. Parents don't attach conditions to the love for their children, but then even that has its clauses doesn't it? What about adult children who commit patricide, who beat up their own parents... .it has been known. Would you still love your children in those circumstances? Impossible to say, and highly unlikely I know. But love does indeed come with conditions.

[Sadly]

Yogabrain

THANK YOU

Love from
Sadly x

[Sadly]

Yes Stripey but read what she wrote. It wasn't about unconditional love for herself, his partner. He didn't feel unconditional love for his children either, so very sad but he appears to have a warped distorted view of any sort of love.

[Stripey77]

Yes, Sadly, I read every word and I addressed that point.  I said it was extremely sad, didn't I?

I was actually talking about LOVE in the wider more general scope. I said that I do not agree that it is unconditional. Love comes with conditions. It shouldn't do between children and their parents, but we are talking about a parent who has the emotional capacity of a child. So his love probably comes with even greater conditions, even towards his children.

[Sadly]

Sorry Stripey, am very confused right now.  gone from a good(ish) place to a bad one in the space of a few days, months out and then hit with such a deep dark sadness I can barely cope. Perhaps I shouldn't come on here yet awhile. So bitterly disappointed.

[Stripey77]

Sadly, this is definitely the place to be if you're in a bad way, we've all been there and we're here to support and help one another.  I know only too well what you're talking about, so keep on reading and posting away, and be kind to youself. 

[Sadly]

  x

[apollotech]

For the last 6 months my marriage has been a constant battle.   We are both considering divorce.  I ask him this morning... .do you love me more, less or the same as you did 3 years ago.  He replies less.  I ask why.  He replies because of how you treated me.  I ask him if he loves his children (not living with us).  He replies yes.  If they did something terrible to you, would you love them less... .he replies:  Yes, and definitely much less if they tried to hurt me really badly... .like poisoning or such.

He has no concept of what love is.  Love is unconditional & here I married a man that I thought loved me.  No... he did not... .and no... .he does not.  He likes me when I do things for him and needs me in his life... .he doesnt want to lose me because he would lose the nice feeling of being with someone he likes.  The lightbulb went on for me when the love for his children was mentioned... .I actually have seen him only give them attention when they were "good" and hardly ever if they "needed" him.  I never saw him really grieve for the deaths of his parents... .there was no silent grieving... .just a lot of "mom was great... .let's go out and celebrate her life at the local pub". 

He has no concept of love.  I hope this resonates with others who are confused as well

Hi yoga,

I think you are correct. It is a very immature way of loving another, the way a child loves, which goes hand-in-hand with the emotional arrestment during development associated with BPD. To me it seems to be a love based on not who we are but rather what we are. The children example illustrates that: he loves them when they are what? Good. Not because of who they are, his children. This certainly facilitates the moving around of BPD love from one individual to another because the pwBPD would never be in love with a person because of who they are as unique individuals.

[Huh?]

The best analogy I've heard for how the disordered "love" is like comparing they way a person would feel about an object like their phone.  They "love" thier phone and all the things it can do for them... .but eventually the phone loses its luster... .and then a new model comes out... .once they get it, they "love" that new phone... .for all the new gadgets and things it can do for them.

The old phone goes in a drawer... .sometimes you pull it out to look at old photos or addresses... .but it's served its purpose and the new phone is where the "true love" lies.

It's all about object consistency, and what need we are filling at the time.

The last time my ex fiancé and I recycled after a couple month break... .the very first date we went on a hike... .something we did every weekend for the duration of our relationship.  While we were hiking, she told me about the "friends that just wanted sex" she had been seeing and that, "I missed being with you because nobody else would go hiking with me"

She didn't miss me, my character, my integrity, my kindness, etc., etc... .she missed that I hiked with her.  I realized then she didn't really love me, she loved what I did for her; I immediately ended it.  Haven't heard from her since.

[lovenature]

I actually have seen him only give them attention when they were "good" and hardly ever if they "needed" him.

It is quite likely he was raised the same way and never successfully got through abandonment depression and didn't develop the qualities of an autonomous person which are necessary to be able to give and receive mature love in an intimate relationship.

Sadly today, more than ever, many parents don't devote the time required to their children's needs, they are too wrapped up in material things and themselves.