I'm Not Sure What to Think...

[daverisk]

Interesting developments today... .last week my wife said she thought it would be some time before she was ready to come home... .she enjoyed the fact that with being gone she actually looked forward to seeing me and the children... .and she said she was giving serious thought to a 90 residential treatment program.

Today she and her counselor discussed it more and she was looking at going to treatment in April.  This evening when we talked and started planning the logistics of her being gone she stopped me about halfway through and said she was ready to come home... .I was a bit stunned... .that was the original understanding when we first started to discuss this... .that she'd come home next week or there abouts.

She says she will see about a shorter in-patient treatment program (a wide variety exist that last from 5 days to 90 days).  I told her I encourage her to do some type of residential program... .which she says she will.

Further, I told her I wanted her to be sure she was coming back for the right reasons... .because she was ready to be my wife and the mother of our children.  She says she is... .I'm not sure what the turn around has been in opinion... .I hope it's because she's ready to be a wife and mother (with the help of therapy).  Maybe it's because I haven't begged her to come back... .nor pushed her away... .maybe it's because she sees I didn't COMPLETELY fall apart and have been able to manage the household in her absence... .cooking... .cleaning... .taking care of the kids... .maybe it's because she misses the kids so much... .this weekend was hard for her emotionally... .with our 4 year old showing how pissed off she was every time mom left... .maybe it's a combination of all these.

She has two more counseling sessions before she returns (she goes 3 times a week)... .so we'll see what happens... .there could be several more changes of mind between now and then.  Mostly, I am ready for her to be home... .as long as she keeps doing the counseling... .we both agree we can't go back to the way it was... .frankly, I'm more than a bit scared.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Being scared makes sense.

It is encouraging that you are both working on your own stuff and trying to make it all work as a couple and family.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out her motivation. As you pointed out, things could change several times between now and next week.

It sounds like you're doing a good job managing the push/pull dynamic. Kudos to you!

[daverisk]

So, if I reiterate the "come back because you're ready to be a wife and mother, not just because you miss the kids" would probably be seen as pushing her away... .wouldn't it?

[Notwendy]

I think the idea that she comes home because she is ready to be a wife and mother is a value- boundary- that you have.

She may want these things, but does she have the emotional/relationship skills to be the kind of wife and mother you want her to be? Perhaps with therapy- she will be able to do this- but that takes work and time.

What I have found with pwPBD is that they tend to be externally motivated. She may want to be home. She probably does miss the kids. So this wanting is a motivator for her. Once home though, she may not be as motivated as that factor is resolved.

There are also some other issues that may be involved. One is black and white thinking " all will be wonderful when I get back" but being a mother and wife has challenges too. The other is the push pull. She's been away from you. You've managed. But once back, will this pull be there?

How do you deal with this? I know you are looking at her to change- via therapy- but for your boundaries to exist, you have to uphold them. I wouldn't expect all to be smooth sailing- she has to learn some skills and so do you- but what is your bottom line for being a wife and mother?

I think your bottom line is no cheating. You may be willing to tolerate other things, but if this is the bottom line- it has to be clear and firm. "I love you and want you back in our home, but I want a marriage that includes fidelity. This also includes no sexting, seductive flirting, or sexual behavior with someone other than me. Is this something you can agree to?".

In the push pull, there can be a honeymoon phase. All is well. Rather than do the hard work, a pwBPD tends to want to erase and start over. I think it is good to not throw the past at them- it doesn't work well anyway. But the risk of the honeymoon phase is believing that the issues are gone. If there are boundary issues for both of you- those will take work. If you have a boundary about her being a wife and mother, you need to stick to that. Boundaries are not things we impose on others- it is how we choose to respond when others break ours. However, boundaries have to be upheld to have any meaning. If no cheating is yours, then you would need to be able to uphold that before stating it. ( ie if she cheats, then the marriage can't continue)

You can uphold that therapy is a boundary. It looks like she is stretching that one a bit- was long term, now short term. If you feel uncomfortable about this- that she is changing the terms of your agreement, then this is something you have to stick to. " Your coming home is contingent on this treatment program" . If you agree to her coming home, then this also needs a boundary. What if she starts day treatment then quits after a few times? Then what. Although she has to decide on therapy for her, I think it might help for you to decide what your boundary is on this.

[daverisk]

So, she had a bad day today... .in that she was with her doctor for a 45 minute pelvic exam... .a hormone shot (finally getting hormone therapy after 3 years with no ovaries)... .and a migraine... .I asked if she knew what day she was coming to the house... .her response, "If you asked me today I would say I don't know if I'm ready." 

I'm not going to continue to update you on her hairpin turns on the issue... .I'm not surprised... .I think there will be several more changes before she decides what she wants to do. 

I reiterated, after this comment... .I love you, I want you home, but only if it's for the right reasons... .because you want to be my wife and the mother of our children... .

She can't come back if it's just for the children... .we'll be in the same place we were a month ago.

If/when she decides to come back I'll post an update.

[Notwendy]

She could change her mind constantly or not, but keep in mind, this is about you- your boundaries- that can not change with her.

Your boundary is be a wife and mother, not just miss the kids. However saying that is pretty unclear. What aspects of being a wife and mother do you expect from her? I think it would help to list what you will not waver on, and what is less important to you.

Being a wife: fidelity, courtesy, affection... .etc.

Being a mother: speaking kindly to the kids, and so on.

[GaGrl]

And is she clear on what you mean by "being a wife and mother"? It's also one thing for her to want that and say that... .it's another thing entirely for her to be able to do so without the right therapy.

[daverisk]

Notwendy,

You've defined my expectations for being my wife quite well... .fidelity, respect, affection, honesty... .of lesser importance... .I want but don't expect the sexting to go away... .I think that will take a while, recognition, occasionally, of the sacrifices and hard work on my part, recognition that I'm a good provider... .for the kids... .I want her to actually be here for them... .the thing that drove her to counseling was the internal conflict... .wanting to be a good wife and a good mother... .but chaffing under that responsibility... .not only to me... .but to the children.  I want her to be here for the children... .

I just spent 15 minutes this evening consoling a four year old girl who doesn't understand why mommy isn't here when she goes to bed or when she wakes up... .why mommy leaves... .often before or right after supper.  When it was bed time this evening D4 had a melt down... .stern Dad stepped in for a minute... .and then remembered how confused and scared and heartbroken D4 and all the children must be... .so me and 4 sat in a chair and cried together... .her calling mommy... .somewhere between despair and anger... .and that's something I won't share with my wife because I don't want that to be her motivation to return... .but she sees it too... .like Sunday... .when she was getting ready to leave D4 stood by the door, arms crossed, mouth angry... .and when Mom walked out the door the despairing cry... .which had mom in tears as she left.

I know it's the nature of this disorder... .to be self-centered... .but I can't understand how selfishness gets in the way of providing for and caring for your children.  She has been physically present for them in the past... .but not always emotionally.  Sunday she told me she would cook for the kids (and me) on Monday... .and do the laundry... .the cooking never happened... .so I warmed up soup... .and "doing the laundry" turned out to be her washing two loads of shoes... .mostly hers... .and mostly for resale.  More than once during the summer I've had to remind her around 6 PM or so that we need to get the crew fed... .

I think part of me is allowing my anger to surface... not like boiling out... .but me finally recognizing it and feeling it... .which is a topic for therapy... .I know I can't express the anger to her in its raw form... .it's not so much anger at her being going away... .but anger at the idea that she did not have the forethought to see the road ahead when she embarked upon this latest fling... .how could it have ended any other way than what it did?  I know, that's the nature of the beast... .impulsiveness... .no real forethought... .not much thought for the feelings of others... .including children.  Even though I rationally understand she's acting according to her nature... .it's still an occasion for anger... .

Gagrl,

I won't know... .she won't know... .if she's in the right therapy for a while... .at least until after the evaluation... .I do wonder if I need to sit with her and tell her my expectations... .I've done it before... .but my only demand was therapy... .and she's attempting that... .I don't ... .no... .I WON'T play her manipulation game... .I'm sticking firm on the mantra... .I love you, I want you home... .when you're ready... .for the right reasons... .because you're ready to be a wife and mother.

[Notwendy]

I agree that it probably is futile to express your anger at her, but you should acknowledge your feelings- not deny any of them. Learning to deal with these relationship issues requires self focus and attention to our feelings. It is easy to slip into focusing on the pwBPD.

It is also important to acknowledge the kids' feelings- as you are doing. Early on, a child could begin to feel that they should not have these feelings- it isn't comfortable to feel ambivalent about a parent- but this is a difficult situation for them. They may need counseling too.

It is hard to understand how selfishness gets in the way of providing for your children, but it can. I am about your age and have a relationship with my elderly mother with BPD. Like your wife, I can see how she wants to be a mother, even now, but he own inner feelings take over. She was not interested in doing home maker things or child care. For that, my father hired sitters when he went to work. I used to resent it as a child, but I see now that the point was to accept that she is who she is and have someone to take care of me and I am glad he provided that.

You can have your wants, but ultimately, your wife can only do the best she can in her situation. Your choice is your bottom line boundaries- what is a relationship deal breaker for you. Some ideas might be serial infidelity, abuse to the kids, and what is negotiable- seems like sexting is, maybe you are willing to hire sitters if she isn't able to tolerate being a full time mom- and other ideas.

[daverisk]

Notwendy,

I think you have a solid grasp on what I'm looking at.  I acknowledge the anger and will handle it in therapy.  I've talked to the kids about how they feel about their mom not being here in basic terms.  I'm going to have a longer sit down with the 3 older kids on Friday after school to give them a little more detail.  Basically... .

"Mom and Dad have been arguing lately, and we don't think it's healthy for you or for us... .so, we've decided not to live in the same house for a little while to try to fix our problem.  Mom is seeing someone to help her, I am seeing someone to help me... .and Mom and Dad are seeing someone together to help us both.  You did nothing wrong... .you are good kids and Mom and Dad love you very much... .no matter what happens Mom and Dad will always be your Mom and Dad.  Right now Mom is staying with her friend ***** (they know the friend), not at Grandma's.  She comes almost every day except when work doesn't allow her to.  I understand you might be sad or angry... .or not sure how you feel... .and you can talk to me about it whenever you want to... .I'll listen whenever you want to talk about it.  Do you have any questions?"

I get to do this alone.  I want to do it on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning so they have the weekend to grieve or whatever it is they'll do.  I told my wife that if she wasn't coming back next week we needed to tell the kids something other than the grandma story because they were asking questions.  She has to work Friday night so I offered to wait until Saturday morning to do it together... .she declined... .afraid of the reaction I think... .I'm not going to wait for her... .it needs done.

On a positive note, I noticed that my wife was looking at sexology clinics in our area on the computer... .so she knows there's an issue... .

Yep, serial infidelity is a relationship ender.  I am willing to "look the other way" on sexting for a while... .if it doesn't get too crazy... .because I understand she'll need a lot of therapy to break some of these patterns.