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Author Topic: Still Regrets From Her  (Read 381 times)
Turkish
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« on: March 18, 2017, 12:45:41 AM »

Over 3 years since she moved out.  Remarriage all but done.  She separated due to domestic violence (mostly her, Erin Pizzey, who observed violent women in shelters in the 70s is vindicated yet again).

She dropped off stuff for the kids last night.  D4 asked her to sleep over, and did the long goodbye.  I could tell my ex was Tearing up. An hour later I got a text her telling me how much she wished she could change things.  It's a testament to my detachment that I sent her a neutral reply. I didn't let it get to me like I did a year ago when I'd get these messages.

I know it isn't about me,  but rather about she not having the kids half the time (which has been the situation for 3 years), but now alone,  it's hit home with her.  This is what she chose, being impulsive,  but I still feel some empathy, maybe mostly because our kids still want us together. It's sad as the children are the real innocents,  but I try to work with them all to deal with it the best that we can.  I'd be lying if I said I wasn't still harboring a little anger about how this affects the kids (S7 and D4), but it is what it is.  We are all responsible for our own feelings.   
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Larmoyant
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 02:59:30 AM »

Hi Turkish, her regret could end up being a great healer for her as it can be for all of us. Maybe she will work on herself so she can have the kids again if that’s a possibility for later. Do you think she will?
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Turkish
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 11:39:21 PM »

I think she is trying,  which is good for all of us.  I was invited to the birthday party fire ex-MIL tomorrow.  I'm not exactly keen on the family given the situation with our kids,  but it should be an ok time. I was a little annoyed when she sent an email to S7's teacher kind of throwing me under the bus for something our son did,  but overall,  I just chalked it up to her keeping up appearances.  I keep in my mind all of the time,  "what's the right thing to do," and, "what's best for all of us,  primarily the kids."

As my T told me over two years ago,  "there's nothing wrong with being kind," with boundaries, of course.  I've come to the conclusion that boundaries also apply to me.  Better to act rather than react.  It was a struggle to get to that point. 

I used to hate her,  I really did,  while knowing that feeling like that wasn't good.  I was never at risk of letting it consume me,  but it didn't feel good while it also felt good for a while. 

The thing I wonder about is how I would feel and where would I be if the marriage to her affair partner hadn't imploded.  Would I still be stuck? Not completely,  but perhaps partially.   
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 08:15:43 PM »

The thing I wonder about is how I would feel and where would I be if the marriage to her affair partner hadn't imploded.  Would I still be stuck? Not completely,  but perhaps partially.   

Why do you wonder about that?

As somebody that has to do the coparenting thing with an ex, I am curious about your process. My ex has been expressing regrets lately and I have to wonder why he is doing it now, a year after I kicked him out.
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Turkish
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 11:45:13 PM »

The party on Sunday was fine.  Her family was glad to see me.  Large, extended family.

I talked to her about some business.  She told me she had a dream where the kids told me I had a girl friend but that I didn't introduce her.  She said she was bothered because she wanted to know who was spending time with the kids.  I don't have a gf. If I did,  I wouldn't introduce the kids unless it were serious.  This was her dream.  I just looked at her,  listened and didn't say anything. 

vortex, I could only speculate about her,  about your husband... .what I didn't do was rise to the bait.  I don't look at it as she purposely baiting me.  She thinks how she thinks.  It's tough not to get sucked into conflict.  You have more kids and had a longer r/s, so I imagine it's tougher to detach from this. 

She asked to take the kids or of town to her cousin's baby's baptism this weekend.  Is my custody time.  She admitted it was short notice. I said I had tentative plans.  She said I could come or take the kids.  I believe her.  I talked to the cousin.  Another cousin made a point for her daughter to call me "uncle."

It's odd not to attend most events for the past three years,  and not being the most sociable person, I do kind of miss it. This isn't a recycle,  not at all,  but from what I observed,  my ex's H never quite fit in (partly her, him, and the fact of our children). Whatever the case, and whatever behaviors or mental illness,  of which we only might be aware,  family is family. 

Since my BPD mother is in the process of becoming a ward off the state,  I'm cut off.  My kids are my family. Their family considers me family.  Using the tools and lessons here,  my ex is merely annoying or frustrating sometimes,  and a large part of this depends upon how I act. 
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 12:58:13 PM »

Turkish,
  Thank you for sharing. It's a testament to how far you've come when you can sit with your thoughts and still have empathy. Empathy is a human emotion and this shows that you are a loving person in general... .she didn't take that away from you.

I cannot imagine what it's like to go through a divorce with children much less a divorce with children and a BPD ex. I think the way you responded was perfect given the situation and the longer you have been apart the more you have come to accept this is who she is and you (and no one else) will ever be able to change that.

Because you share custody the best thing you can do is continue being that role model for those little ones. You will always be the stable parent and as you know, your children will also struggle with being in close proximity with your ex, unfortunately legally they have to be. They need you and you are showing them how to interact with her, the right way.

I feel bad that all this responsibility was put on your shoulders, you did not ask for that but it is reassuring to see just how strong you are. I've been on these boards a long time and I admire you and Mutt and your situations. I've seen how far you've come since I started coming here and I am filled with joy knowing your children have you to guide them through this, through life as a steady and strong role model.

Keep on keeping on, Turkish. Bless you!

 
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 02:53:42 PM »

"The thing I wonder about is how I would feel and where would I be if the marriage to her affair partner hadn't imploded.  Would I still be stuck? Not completely,  but perhaps partially."

Hey Turkish, In what sense are you stuck because her marriage imploded?  What is the thing that you wonder about?  Where would you be if her marriage hadn't failed?  I can't quite follow what you are saying.

Thanks,
LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
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Turkish
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 11:53:49 PM »

Hey Turkish, In what sense are you stuck because her marriage imploded?  What is the thing that you wonder about?  Where would you be if her marriage hadn't failed?  I can't quite follow what you are saying.

This.  It's the question a lot of newbies ask,  yes? Many don't get to observe this as some us is do,  where I saw the fuse burn down over a 14 month period starting about three months after they married and co-habitated.

As a friend of mine put it,  he was a known quantity. A bit goofy and immature, and narcissistic in an odd way,  but I think he wanted to do right by the kids, and they liked him.  Who knows what's next? All in all,  I knew she was still who she was yet still I struggled with,  "he did better than me. " He/she did for two years.  Introspection: what's wrong with that? The point is that we didn't do well and it ended. 

Pretty Woman: thanks  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Today, however,  I felt the old angst.  I took over and hour from work and picked up the kids from school and dropped them back at her work.  Her day.  No problem.  We help each other out.  She held D4 so I gave our daughter a kiss goodbye.  D4 grabbed my head and pulled me in... .maybe partially to get me close to her mom.  I patted D4 on the belly. I do that a lot.  D likes it.  Her mom said,  "don't hit her like that!" I think she felt I was damaging D. Not five minutes and negativity and criticism.  *sigh* All in all it isn't a big deal,  but it's like "death of a r/s by a thousand pinpricks." I know stbxh experienced this.  I didn't say anything but drove back to work. 

I shared with a friend at work and he,  like so many others, said that given such little criticisms and anxieties, me being healthy and stable for the kids' sake was so important. 

This, like the incident at the party on Sunday where I was blamed (in front of 3 of her cousins) for letting S7 sit on the sidewalk getting dirty (and she made sure to go Waif on our son by telling him she had to do his laundry), changed my mind about attending her family event on Saturday. 

I can take a bad day,  or a stressful event and be supportive.  I don't think I can ever again take the walking on eggshells though
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 12:12:04 AM »

The party on Sunday was fine.  Her family was glad to see me.  Large, extended family.

Do her family know the extent of her disorder?


Excerpt
I talked to her about some business.  She told me she had a dream where the kids told me I had a girl friend but that I didn't introduce her.  She said she was bothered because she wanted to know who was spending time with the kids.  I don't have a gf. If I did,  I wouldn't introduce the kids unless it were serious.  This was her dream.  I just looked at her,  listened and didn't say anything. 

My BPD RealPolitik decoder says she's probing with that BS (which you probably already knew... .I got a story about a psychic once, but I digress)... .and probably influencing the kids about Mommy & Daddy getting back together; FOG by proxy.

Excerpt
This isn't a recycle,  not at all, 

Not yet... .but time will tell I think.

Are you dating?

==
I think you can change you name from Turkish to Teflon, because they way you're handling all this is very admirable.
Hopes from the kids; probably hopes from family; and sword of damocles in the form of opportunistic recycling attempt - but you're in control.
Even in the face of the abuse I'm sure you've experienced at her whim, - that's no small feat. 

Regret from her, I don't buy personally - cui bono? Trust actions, not words - but you already know all this.

Nothing left to say, except - Well done & Respect.
==

Thanks for the heads up about Erin Pizzey - very interesting.

I have a question I wanted to ask (I'd like to hear your opinion also @vortex);

When you decided to have kids with her - was she heavily disordered, or was she high functioning and then heavily degenerated?
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Turkish
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2017, 01:05:43 AM »

infjEpic,

I agree that she's probing. The first time was a few months ago when we were at the mall with the kids after D7 was diagnosed (after hours of testing) with Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1. "So have you found anybody yet?" I ignored and changed the conversation. 

I had a Lit. Prof in college who told the class,  "there are three ways in which we judge people: first, by how they look; second,  by what they say; third, by what they do." Reversing that order is the accurate judge of a person's character,  of course.  I was 19 in that class.  It always stuck with me. 

When she was pregnant with D4, she and her mom got into an argument and she stormed out of their home.  I was let with our baby son.  It was Christmas morning.  I got a text,  "Bring our son home!"

I found her curled up in the bathroom,  despondent.  I found kind of a suicide note on the computer.  I almost called 911, but knowing her,  I knew she'd leave me,  pregnant. We got through it.  She told me her T had diagnosed her with depression. I encouraged her to tell her family. She did,  and they exhibited some empathy,  as I knew they would.  Things were better for many months.  When D wasn't even 1, it got worse, a major trigger in her family having nothing to do with me,  though I was present so not uninvolved.

However,  it was conflict from the beginning.  So many  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  including not caring of she got pregnant right away.  In put that off for over a year.  I didn't want another kid based upon the first experience, yet acquiesced.  Fool me twice,  shame on me.  Dumbest decisions ever.  Kids don't make things better. 

I spent many thousands in therapy never being diagnosed with anything other than temporary anxiety,  an ICD-10 code so I could claim it on my taxes,  despite my ex "sending" me to therapy (she did the same to her current H).

Foolish I was,  yes.  Still,  in love my kids to pieces.  Despite the ASD1 Dx (what they used to call Asperger's), our son is wicked smart, and kind. D4 is a personality, like a doll, and very emotive and outgoing.   Everyone loves our kids.  I'm smiling writing this... .Despite my stupidity, I can't imagine life without them.  But to answer your question succinctly, yes, I knew from the beginning. 

It would be weak to blame my BPD mom (you don't know what you don't know), but I was an adult,  capable (and culpable for) my own choices. 
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2017, 09:25:41 AM »

Hello again, Turkish, So is it some relief, or at least validation, to find out that her new marriage has failed?  Maybe it means that you don't have to blame yourself as much, or don't have to beat yourself up for why it didn't work out between the two of you?  You saw the fuse burn down in marriage #2, as you note.  It sounds hard, but it seems like you're doing a good job of keeping centered and deflecting the recycle probes, which are all good signs.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 12:55:25 PM »

When you decided to have kids with her - was she heavily disordered, or was she high functioning and then heavily degenerated?

When I decided to have kids with ex, I didn't really see any signs of disorder. With the first two kids, he was a great dad. He was very helpful and supported me in a lot of wonderful ways. There was some messed up stuff at the beginning of our marriage but that didn't really seem disordered as such. It was private and personal and I didn't really see it impact life outside of closed doors.

When I got pregnant with my 3 child, I was worried about the work involved in having 3 kids. He assured me it would be fine. After her birth, I struggled with depression and asked him for more help and support. We ended up moving to another state and living with his parents. That is when things started their downhill spiral. Then, by the time child #4 was born, he seemed to go downhill even faster. What really set him off was a mix of his dad's passing and the fact that I was no longer tied to the house with a nursing baby. It seemed like he was content as long as I didn't ask for much and was tied down being pregnant and nursing. After I weaned my youngest and wanted to start doing things by myself and for myself, that seemed to set things in horrible motion and he behaved in ways that I had only seen tiny glimpses of before.
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Turkish
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2017, 02:36:21 AM »

Last night she stopped by to drop off D4's ballet accoutrements. She asked about taking the kids to a party or of town again (a little over an hour away). I said that my plans fell through.  She was wishy washy about riding with her family early, and admitted to being indecisive  (this is her). I said, "do you want me to make the decision?" In our r/s this used to drive me nuts.  She replied,  "please." I said,  "be here at x time and I'll drive."

I know she gets weird about the kids looking prim and proper for events.  S7 was OK.  :)4 was being stubborn.  I packed extra clothes. So did she.  :)4 was being stubborn about wearing a dress.  

On the way there, she asked me about my BPD mom.  I gave her the update (my mother is in process of becoming a ward of the state). I'll give her credit that she listened.  

When we got to the event,  she changed D, explaining to her that if she wasn't dressed properly, she'd hear about how poorly she was taking care of them as a mom.  I thought about asking,  "do people actually say this to you?" Personally, if anyone said that to me,  they can take a long trip off a short pier. This is the anxiety and guilt stuff that I hope to inoculate the kids against without engaging in parental alienation.  Other then this,  we had a good time.  She thanked me for bringing the kids and coming. She rode home with her  family as a designated driver. I took the kids home,  and I didn't make myself available for a hug as she strapped them in.

Just before we got there,  she said that only her immediate family knew she was separated from her H. She knows I talk to the cousins.  She asked me not to say anything.  I said I wouldn't, but that people also aren't stupid.  I said that one of her female cousins made a subtle comment to me two years ago at another function which telegraphed to me that she knew exactly how their r/s started. My ex didn't say anything.  I dropped it. Maybe that was a little petty of me.  "All they know is that H is working. It's none of their business." I respect that,  but in the r/s I heard all sorts of news about this uncle and aunt having affairs, etc... .from my ex.

If her immediate family knows, it puts into perspective why her parents are so friendly to me lately; today, and at the party last week. No, this isn't recycling, but attachment.  I'm safe,  I'm the father of the children. Even trying to think the best,  H never fit in.  

She did look darn pretty today. Even so,  I didn't go for a hug, which she would have been ok with. Recycling takes two.  Boundaries only take one.  
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2017, 03:30:19 AM »

What an inspiration and a credit you are Turkish. Your kids and your ex and her family are lucky to have you. Respect.
Love from
Sadly x
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2017, 06:33:16 AM »

i agree with Sadly, you are an absolute inspiration. Thank you for sharing your story.
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2017, 07:26:48 AM »

Excerpt
Recycling takes two.  Boundaries only take one. 
  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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