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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Do they know?  (Read 407 times)
ShadowA
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« on: March 22, 2017, 03:29:28 AM »

So I found out my ex has said to everyone that we never talked for 2 years.
That she gave me closure 2 years ago, and hasn't talked to me since.

When a friend of mine said, yeah that's not true you have talked normally til few months ago.
She says it's only to tell me we can't be friends nor relationship.

She said it's odd that I've messaged her asking her for closure since we didn't talk for 2 years.


Let me just lay this out.
Do borderlines truly believe this?

I literally talked to her like every day until our recent fight.
The recent fight was me! Telling her! we should just be friends.

She even says I hurt her, and her 'friends'?
I literally can't think of ONE thing. literally ONE thing... That I
ever, ever, did to her friends. Ever.

Please someone tell me they know! They are lying and delusional.

Because I'm literally beyond shock.
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marti644
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 03:44:16 AM »

Hi Shadow, sorry to hear of your troubles. People general believe what they want to believe I think. People with BPD take it to the next level, they twist their words around their emotions. There are so many lies I'm pretty sure they have no idea the difference between the truth and the make believe in the moment. But I do think that deep down they do know they are wrong, but they have no way to deal with the shame and guilt in a healthy way. Instead they use short-term survival strategies (lying, manipulation, projecting, drugs and alcohol, and impulsive sex or other reckless behaviour) to repress those feelings. Unfortunately for them these short-term strategies that help them survive short term are what destroys them long term. I am watching my mother who I recently realized is disordered do this. Not fun to watch and wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Try not to take it personally, this has nothing to do with you and yes people with borderline can be delusional at times. If it helps I always try to remember that my BPDex is really a four year old, and because she is a child emotionally, this is why she acts a certain way. People with BPD aren't adults when it comes to emotions, so don't treat them like adults, keep your expectations lower.

 I suggest you go full NC and stay away from her. Once the FOG lifts you will see it has nothing to do with you and there is no logic to her actions.
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ShadowA
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 06:14:35 AM »

Hi Shadow, sorry to hear of your troubles. People general believe what they want to believe I think. People with BPD take it to the next level, they twist their words around their emotions. There are so many lies I'm pretty sure they have no idea the difference between the truth and the make believe in the moment. But I do think that deep down they do know they are wrong, but they have no way to deal with the shame and guilt in a healthy way. Instead they use short-term survival strategies (lying, manipulation, projecting, drugs and alcohol, and impulsive sex or other reckless behaviour) to repress those feelings. Unfortunately for them these short-term strategies that help them survive short term are what destroys them long term. I am watching my mother who I recently realized is disordered do this. Not fun to watch and wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Try not to take it personally, this has nothing to do with you and yes people with borderline can be delusional at times. If it helps I always try to remember that my BPDex is really a four year old, and because she is a child emotionally, this is why she acts a certain way. People with BPD aren't adults when it comes to emotions, so don't treat them like adults, keep your expectations lower.

 I suggest you go full NC and stay away from her. Once the FOG lifts you will see it has nothing to do with you and there is no logic to her actions.

I don't have a choice anymore.
Either way. I think I needed this.
I think I finally needed to hit rock bottom and her blatantly lying about something that is beyond a reasonable doubt ridiculous.
I've beaten myself up so long... Wondering... If perhaps she wasn't BPD and I was the issue.
I finally, finally... Got my true closure.
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Rayban
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 11:45:01 AM »

Common BPD behaviour.  In her sick mind, you are the bad guy, and she the helpless victim. She'll use that to garner sympathy or attention from who ever wants to listen.  The friends part, well that's her way of saying it's not only her, but her friends as well.
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Pretty Woman
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 12:35:32 PM »

They believe their own lies... .
in that moment... .until... .

they need something from you.

Try not to focus on her crazy-making behavior. You will never "get it" because you are sane. We drive ourselves crazy trying to figure them out. Why are we wasting our time, they are who they are. Let's just take their actions at word and let it be. It's not worth it trying to dissect their craziness. How does that benefit us in the long run?

It doesn't.

Crazy is as crazy does.
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stimpy
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 12:41:08 PM »

Does she know she is lying? Sorry, I can't tell you... .depends on her disorder, more BPD then she might believe her own distorted thoughts, more NPD then she might be doing this to deliberately to make herself look good and do the pity play at the same time.

Whichever almost doesn't matter, I'd say get as far away from her as you can, go NC and move on. What you're experiencing is a combination of Gaslighting (reinventing the past) and Smearing (making you look bad to other people). This all sounds very familiar to me - unfortunately. But decent friends will be able to see through it and anyone who knows you won't take any notice.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2017, 01:01:17 PM »

Crazy is as crazy does.

Yep. So true!

I honestly don't think my ex knows. He wants to be a part of the kids lives yet seems completely clueless about what he has done. I tried to talk to him about the kids and he started to point out that he isn't doing those things right now. It is like the past is completely forgotten. If he hasn't done it in a week or two, then why is it a problem? It is like his perception of time is distorted. I have had so many conversations over the years where he has denied doing something and, when called on it said, "But I am not doing it now."
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hopealways
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 08:01:01 PM »

I wonder too!
Mine never told her best friend that she had been texting me for the past year sometimes 4X a week!
I am done trying to figure these people out. It's insanity. Best thing is to move the heck on.
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2017, 08:46:38 PM »

Hey Shadow

This is a tough one.  For non-BPDs, the idea of telling a lie is straight forward; there is something I am hiding from you for whatever reason and I understand that it is a lie.  For a pwBPD, lying may serve the same purpose, but the internal dynamics are totally different.  It isn't lying in the sense  of hiding a wrongdoing; it is more like an emotionally driven need to self-protect what is a fragile internal place. 

The self-protect drive is so strong that the emotional state is disconnected from the logic of thought.  So while what is said may be patently untrue and inaccurate; the reason for saying it is very real and valid to them and so therefore, true.  Remember people with BPD struggle with feelings equaling facts.   

It is very sad.  The hard part for us non's is to validate our perceptions and then act according to what is best for us given our own understanding.  As others have said, the answer for them is NC; understandable why it is that way for so many of us.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 05:26:26 AM »

I have a question... .

If their feelings, opinions, and thoughts about people are ever changing, and are "in the moment" then why do those of us who get painted black stay painted black for months or years or for good?

If they distort reality and paint you as the "big evil bad person" then what makes them change their mind and paint you white again?

If they get overly emotional in a heated argument, and do something irrational (like file false legal charges) do they regret this choice soon after once they have calmed down? Or do they truly believe that they were in the right for doing this and stick with that opinion?

I guess what I'm asking here, is why do they sometimes only "hate" you for a few hours or a few days, maybe a few weeks, but in other cases (regardless of the severity of whatever triggered them) they hate you for eternity and never change their minds?

I think this is a good question, because with mine, during the 4 years I was with her, so many bad things happened and she never left, or always came back, or begged me to stay when I would get fed up and threaten to leave... So, it was very confusing that in the end, she left over something so small and developed so much hatred for me over it, but yet stayed for that long and tolerated all of our other problems? It makes no sense...
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stimpy
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 06:23:29 AM »

I guess what I'm asking here, is why do they sometimes only "hate" you for a few hours or a few days, maybe a few weeks, but in other cases (regardless of the severity of whatever triggered them) they hate you for eternity and never change their minds?

I can't answer this question, I don't think anyone can, even the person you are referring to, may not know really why she acts in the way that she does.

But can I ask you to think about your question differently. Hate is a very strong word, and gives the impression of single minded focussed intensity, with you being the focus of that intensity. Is it really as simple as hate... .could her actions be driven by revenge, to resolve a perceived injustice, could her disappearance be a form of punishment, to make you feel bad about yourself and shame you and put you in the "one-down" position, or could it be NC, to protect herself, as perhaps now she sees you as a threat to her, whether the threat is real or not doesn't matter, it might be what she feels.

So her actions might not be driven by hate, they may be driven by something else.

As to why  seemingly small incident can cause the ultimate end to a relationship, well it could simply be as the old saying goes, "the straw that broke the camel's back", in other words, the cumulative effect of issues and arguments and disappointments meant that just one more small incident was enough to tip the balance.

I never found out what caused my expwBPD to dump me, and because I refused the attempted recycle,  I will never find out. And that hurts, because she and I shared so much. Yet she couldn't be honest with me to tell me why suddenly seemingly of the blue I'm dumped and I'm out of the picture. But, what I do know, is that she dumped me on her birthday, on her 50th birthday and I think she thought I hadn't done anything for it... .when in fact I had done so... .so... .much. I just wanted t to all be a big surprise.

So I think I have worked out what the trigger was for me being dumped. But still, she dumped me - out of the blue, when we were set for what I thought was a good future and the worst thing was that she didn't trust me, and was quite happy to make my life hell. And I don't want that sort of person in my life.
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ShadowA
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 06:49:11 PM »

I have a question... .

If their feelings, opinions, and thoughts about people are ever changing, and are "in the moment" then why do those of us who get painted black stay painted black for months or years or for good?

If they distort reality and paint you as the "big evil bad person" then what makes them change their mind and paint you white again?

If they get overly emotional in a heated argument, and do something irrational (like file false legal charges) do they regret this choice soon after once they have calmed down? Or do they truly believe that they were in the right for doing this and stick with that opinion?

I guess what I'm asking here, is why do they sometimes only "hate" you for a few hours or a few days, maybe a few weeks, but in other cases (regardless of the severity of whatever triggered them) they hate you for eternity and never change their minds?

I think this is a good question, because with mine, during the 4 years I was with her, so many bad things happened and she never left, or always came back, or begged me to stay when I would get fed up and threaten to leave... So, it was very confusing that in the end, she left over something so small and developed so much hatred for me over it, but yet stayed for that long and tolerated all of our other problems? It makes no sense...


This is something that bothers me too.
I honestly don't know. It drives me batty trying to think of it.
One minute I'm the best person ever.
Next I'm the worst.

I actually recently bluntly showed my ex she's either delusional or a liar.
Followed by telling her not to contact me ever again.
She honestly 'seems' like she truly believes her lies. Drives me insane.

I'm beyond pissed.
I'm being called a stalker, abuser, and more.
I'm being smeared as someone who has threatened her?
I'm just so done with this madness and just want to heal now.
Delusional, or deliberately to hurt me. I just want out.


But back to what you said. WHY do they go back to someone if they truly believe the horrible things they say?
Why would they go back to an abuser, stalker, raper, or w.e they delusionally throw out?
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Rayban
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2017, 07:50:16 PM »

 They lack object constancy. They do not relate in any consistent way. That's why you see the swing between all-good to all-bad, then back to all-good until they shift back to all-bad etc. Borderlines do not have the inter-personal skills to relate to "self" or "other" in any consistent or lasting way.
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lovenature
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 12:24:51 AM »

Sadly they truly believe what they say. PWBPD have psychological defences to protect them from emotions too painful to process, and they all boil down to them literally making up their own reality to fit their emotion of the moment.
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2017, 08:48:30 AM »

I have a question... .

If their feelings, opinions, and thoughts about people are ever changing, and are "in the moment" then why do those of us who get painted black stay painted black for months or years or for good?

If they distort reality and paint you as the "big evil bad person" then what makes them change their mind and paint you white again?

 It makes no sense...

Not sure I have the answer but some thoughts to consider. 

BPD is a form of emotional dysregulation; feelings seemingly come out of nowhere and uncontrollably so.  Some posters here ask the question "do they know"?  That question is relevant to this answer b/c I think they do know; not that they have a PD, rather, that their feelings can be extreme and that it is confusing and illogical to others and them. 

Those illogical thoughts may at times be apparent, in other words, there are moments of conscious recognition that their experiences are not like others.  To that point, I think there is an attempt to "fight the inner demons" and re-regulate, to no real permanent avail.  Eventually, the PD dysregulation is too overpowering and logic fails resulting in the conclusion that the reason for the bad feelings must emanate externally b/c everything they can do to regulate and balance has been done.

Along those battle lines, we see the waffling back and forth between black and white.  BPDs don't do shades of grey very well, if at all.  My ex used to say things like; always, forever, never, entirely.  Little did I know she was describing the construct that housed her feelings.  She resented me for being so grey - now I know why.

In summary, what we see as being painted white or black is a reflection of their internal struggle to find balance with an emotional wiring configuration that is either on or off (no dimmer switch) and as a result explains their world and those in it as either entirely good or entirely bad.  That is the part of the dysregulation; no way to to get to an in between state.  During moments of recognition, there can be a desire to willfully stick to one way or the other but the internal chaos cannot be managed in r/s with emotional closeness so to resolve the chaos the Off button is pushed even though there is a desire to leave it in the On position.

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