At the start of the process

[ForMySon]

I'm relatively new to this forum. I tried to use some of the tools and topics that I learned here to help me in my relationship, but they didn't help at all.

I tried to work this out through marriage counseling, and she couldn't help to get through her either. I was then advised to hire a lawyer, and start the process of trying to get custody of my son from my BPDexgf. The marriage counselor that I saw gave her the diagnosis of BPD after the first session.

I'm wondering if and what as the father of the child (no name on birth certificate, but I already have a notorized DNA test ) to get custody of my son. The law enforcement agencies don't view that as enough to have my son for a night if she doesn't agree.

Steps that I have already taken after being out two weeks:
1) setup a room for my son in my new place
2) had my lawyer consult (best custody lawyer in town)
3) started to get the money needed to hire her
4) started individual counseling with the marriage counselor we saw together
5) started to rebuild relationships with family and friends

Any ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Mutt]

Hi ForMySon, 



I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear that. I can see how distressing that would feel when you're trying to get custody of your son, I can relate with that. Although, I can't offer you legal advice because I'm in a different country, I just wanted to show you some support and to tell you you're in the right forum for that, many of the members here can relate with you and offer you guidance and support.  How old is your son? Are you trying to sort custody before divorce? Again, welcome you can find the lessons on the right side of the board. 

[ForMySon]

Thank you for welcoming me. A little backstory... .

My son is 2.5 years old. He is an awesome, smart, polite, and funny little man. He has a wonderful outlook on things around him, and I don't want to see that spoiled.

We are not married. She tried to press the issue towards the end of the relationship. I think that she knew she had to try something to force me to stay. I'm so very glad that I dodged that bullet.

I met my BPDexgf ( diagnosed by marriage counselor ) 3 years ago. In the first week together she became pregnant. Not knowing what was hiding behind the mask, I decided that it would be a good idea to try and have a family with this woman. Everything was good for the first couple of months. Around about 4 months in, I don't know what brought about this huge change in her. I at first thought it was hormones, or I thought that because she had stopped taking her anti-depressants for the safety of our child (pregnant), but either way I tried to rationalize it away. I noticed plenty of red flags in the beginning, and I stayed thinking it was best for my son. Fast forward to today and the behaviors haven't changed, and have only intensified. I'm at the point in my life where I think the best thing to do is fight for my child. I don't feel safe that we would share custody of him. I know that the future and showing my son healthy is where I need to put my energy.

What I would like to know are some strategies that will work to allow me to have more custody of my son than her.

I am currently in a hold pattern waiting for the money for the lawyer to come through. I have tried to reasonably discuss custody and child support with her. That has led to deflection, and we haven't been able to discuss resolution.

I have spent a total of 4 hours with my son in 2 weeks. I haven't had my son for an overnight in two and a half weeks ( since I moved out) I tried to force my hand and say that I wanted to keep him, and she went to the cops and tried to press kidnapping (felony child concealment) charges. I was told since my name wasn't on the birth certificate that I had no legal right to the child. ( I do know that he is mine. I have a certified DNA test. She knows he's mine. She had the daycare paperwork notarized listing me as the father.) I want to be more to my child that an every other weekend, one day a week dad, and I don't want her to be able to continue to keep him from me.

I miss him so much, and the thought that I have on regular occasions is that I'm strong enough to take the abuse just to be with my child. The rational side of me keeps me away from trying do to that though. I can't go back into that toxic relationship with her. I can't allow my son to watch his dad get treated in such a way. I can't allow my son to receive this same treatment from her in the future. I hope that I can be the father that my son needs me to be. It's a shame that we couldn't make it work for his sake.

[ForeverDad]

Hmm, maybe let her go ahead and claim he isn't yours?  That ought to fall flat on its face once the court confirms reality.  After all, a claim like that would say someone else was the father, that she had some sort of affair person on the side, so where is that mystery man?

That she would go to that extent when the relationship ends is so tragic.  Sigh, by and large the court won't care about her overreactions.

Many BPD mothers here, at least the majority described here, perceive their children as their validation, their entitlement to do or claim anything.  You lived with her for over 3 years with no police involvement?  :)oesn't matter, attempt to leave, especially with the child, and the claws and hooks come out.  Her black-or-white world now casts you as an abuser rather than an idolized savior.

If you have documentation of her attempts to get married, any texts or emails, etc, then save them because when the relationship is ending who abused strives to get married?  Um, sour grapes, anyone?

Your lawyer ought to be preparing a case to demonstrate that you are a normal person, a normal parent.  That's likely to be her initial claim, that your child is not safe with you and especially not overnight.  (My newly separated spouse - married 15 years and child was 3 years old - insisted the court to limit me to supervised only, too bad CPS had already stood up in court at the temp hearing and stated they had "no concerns" about me.)  Sadly, the child is leverage and she will desperately use the child.  And courts typically defer or default to mothers.  Perhaps not so much when the evaluators submit with their reports.

Is this lawyer capable in court?  While all lawyers know how to file forms and hold hands, fewer have the experience, strategies and proactive stance to get the important points made in court at hearings and trials.

Does she have other children?  If so, are those fathers in their children's lives?

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

[ForMySon]

That happened on Tuesday night. She asked me to pick him up from daycare, and I did. She got off work at 7:15 and wanted me to have him home by then. I told her that I wanted to keep him for the night. She disagreed with that, and she went to have the police come pick son and I up. The cop rang me on the phone asked my story. I told him the truth, but I ended up having to take the child back.

There were some moments of police involvement. All times the calls were placed by me, but I was asked to leave them home when they arrived. I was normally the calm rational one when dealing with the police. I think there were maybe 4 times total over 3 years where they were involved.

She has already claimed that she doesn't think that the child will be safe when in my care. I have multiple text conversations to that fact.

My lawyer is very capable in court. From the things that I have heard in the community she is probably the most ruthless family law person in town. I learned about this lawyer from my counselor who knew what I was truly dealing with. When in my first consult with the lawyer, and we were discussing what I would like I said 50%. Continuing the conversation we came upon the topic of borderline and she asked if I was ok with my son being raised in that environment. After the police were called on me, I don't think I want less than 51%.

She has no other children. She was divorced, and she told me he was the abuser. I don't so much believe that anymore. I know that she has been hospitalized multiple times for mental health issues especially in her early 20s.

[Mutt]

Hi ForMySon,

She was divorced, and she told me he was the abuser. I don't so much believe that anymore. I know that she has been hospitalized multiple times for mental health issues especially in her early 20s.

I don't want to take your thread off topic but I just wanted to point something out. My S9 has a learning disability, I have another S5 and a D9, S9 is a validation medallion for my exuBPDw, we just had parent teacher interviews last night, I went into the school with the kids, she was there and my son is struggling on this report card I received several emails last night from her basically stating that it was my fault and just as Foreverdad said, she'll say that she'll do what's best for the kids and will fight for them, it casts her as the "all good" parent "rescuing" the kids from the "all bad" parent, it's unrealistic because it's not balanced, it's that validation that she constantly seeks that Foreverday pointed out, she doesn't know how many things that I catch because of her dysfunctional behavior. That being said, you're right to not believe that anymore, the previous guy was eventually devalued like you, unless you've talked to him and you're getting your impressions of him first hand.

[livednlearned]

Hi ForMySon,

Welcome and hello 

It's great that you have a lawyer you respect, and that she comes highly recommended. And same for the DNA test. I'm so sorry you haven't been able to spend as much time with your son as you would like.  That's hard.

You may want to read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. A lot of the book will be relevant whether you are married or not, especially with a child involved.

Another thing is to document everything -- how much time you spend with your son, every request she makes that you take care of him, any appointments you take him to, your requests to spend time with him. Like FD mentioned, keep all texts, emails, anything to disprove false allegations that you were her abuser.

Her anxiety around separation stress from the baby is likely to be intense (as indicated by her fears about kidnapping). She'll experience separation from her son as fear of abandonment and it will trigger unbearable anxiety. That's often what people with BPD are doing -- they are trying to get relief from the anxiety by doing desperate things (that they often believe, contrary to facts).

Your L probably will instruct you on whether to insist on time with your son, or whether to let things run their course in court.

Do you have to establish paternity legally first before having a custody hearing?

[david]

You need to document everything you can. Find out from your attorney what things are most important and what things will help in your county. There are variations. Always focus on what is best for your child and frame everything that way.
MY story started in 2007. Went to court early 2008 and the judge said out loud that it was his opinion that mom's are better at raising small children than dad's are. I was an EOW dad at the start. Today I have 50/50 legally but see our boys more than that.

[Panda39]

To piggyback on what david said about documentation, use email to communicate.  It slows down the interaction so you can provide a more thoughtful response not an emotional knee-jerk reaction.  It gives you time to decide if you even need to respond at all... .if it's all ForMySon bashing and what a bad dad you are ignore it, don't take the bait. (Don't JADE... .Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain... .it will only lead you into an argument that goes no where)  Only respond if it's about your son and when you do create a BIFF response (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm).  Email will also give you an easy way to document your interactions.  You can show that you have requested time with your son and are refused for example.

I know how hard and frustrating it is to go through a custody battle one thing my SO learned that I will pass on is to keep your anger a frustration under wraps around anyone involved in your case.  Vent here, vent to a trusted friend but don't vent around your son, or when talking with a custody evaluator, daycare provider or the receptionist at the Pediatrician office etc.

Keep fighting for your son he deserves to have his dad in his life.

Panda39

[david]

I only communicate through email. In fact, I had it put in our court order in 2009. I used to get 40 to 50 emails a month. Most attacked me in some way. Back then I used to defend myself. Eventually, with the help of a therapist and this site, I realized things were not going to change if I continued responding. I stopped defending myself and focused on our boys only. Over time the emails attacking me lessened. I still get some but maybe 2 a month. That is a major improvement. I also learned that I can use email only communication and everything works fine. If there were a true emergency things would be different. Ex tried the emergency strategy years back. The boys were only 4 and 8 so I did get involved. Usually, as in most of the time, things backfired and nothing positive occurred. As our boys got older I realized they could tell if it was an emergency or not and I was able to determine my best course of action. The youngest was around 10 by then so you have some time for that to happen. It does get better.

[ForMySon]

Thanks everyone. It means a lot to have so many people understand where i am. It's sometimes hard to even explain the level of dysfunction and abuse that tiny woman put me through. It was all very real.

I have text messages, Facebook conversations, and i should have gotten a phone call recorder sooner. I have plenty of documentation about everything. I have been extra vigilant now that he is being kept from me.

I do have to establish paternity. I tried this over a year ago. I paid for the DNA test in order to do just that. That was continuously deflected.

As for conversation, i have gotten my own phone plan. I leave the phone that i communicate with her at home, and use it like email to avoid the drama. I find that constant communication feeds the beast.

I'm sure this path is the right one. It's just extremely difficult especially without my son. It's hateful the way she uses him. I see what you guys are talking about and using him for the validation. I haven't been able to figure out the constant connection that she seems to needs from him, and that explains it further.

[ForeverDad]

Contact with the children at first is, sadly, too often very limited.  I didn't see my son at all for a month before I realized I had to file in court.  We had already been in family court but the temp orders had been dismissed with the magistrate saying not to return unless it was for more permanent filings.  Well, after filing it took another two months to get the initial hearing.  So it was 3 months in all I didn't see or hear from our preschooler.  Yes she didn't even let me talk to him by phone.  When the same magistrate confirmed it from her, he said "I'll fix that" and merely made another temp order with similar terms as before.  No consequences for mother, not even wagging a finger at her, no make up time for dad.  Oh, and she said she had to be out of town with son and wanted my reunion weekend delayed from Friday evening until Saturday evening.  Granted.

Try to get as much ordered parenting time as possible from the first.  It is an uphill struggle for mother fathers and you just can't afford to sit in the background.  If she claims you're not safe with the child or she needs more than the usual time with the child, present evidence otherwise or require her to prove it.  Hers will be highly emotional claims.  Remind the court that you were with her for some 3 years and this coming out now is sour grapes or 'unsubstantiated claims' solely to keep control and hence block your parenting.

However, if she is claiming to be a victim or target then the court might order evaluations.  Very important, try to get the court to order (psych) evaluations of BOTH parents and results released to court and BOTH lawyers.  It will be inclined just to do them for you the accused but it is important to have both examined.  They ought to confirm you're just fine as a father.

At some later point you may need a more in depth evaluation, usually called a custody evaluation.  For that you need to be especially careful that you get an experienced and unbiased evaluator, not a novice or one easily gullible.

[ForMySon]

I think this is the strategy that she will go with. I have been asking every two days about working out child support and custody with her, and she just refuses saying that she doesn't feel safe in that discussion. It's just an easy way to continue to block access to my son. There is nothing that she has to be concerned with when it comes to me being able to care for him.

I have paid for the lawyer, and I have my next meeting with her Wednesday night. I'm hoping that I will be able to go over strategies with her, and tell her what I know of the situation that we are about to get into. I know she is well versed in dealing with situations like these, and I just have to discuss the options. I think that my focus is going to be on my son. I'm not going to play the blame games that I know will come from her side. I will use what I have in my arsenal to defend my behaviors, but I don't think it's going to be viable to fight this battle in her way.

I'm so scared of this process as I have no idea what is going to come of all of this. I really was home with my son every night, and I did 50% of the work with him. The family was almost always together when one of us wasn't at work.

I miss my son, and that has been the hardest thing for me. I know what my counselor tells me, and she thinks that by the time he is 11 he will know where he wants to live.

[ForeverDad]

Age 11?  That's nearly a decade from now.  Now is the time to establish yourself as involved a father as you can be.  The early years are the most formative years.

Here's an example about me.  I took Spanish in high school, 2 years.  I was a B student but then when we were in the second half of the second year we concentrated on conjugating verbs.  I could see patterns easily, that's what I always did well in Spelling, also got the school medal for Geometry.  Well, I was the best of 2 classes that semester, got an A.  I recall one test had us conjugating verbs, 100% would have been 202 points.  I got 201.5 points, missed an accent mark, all the kids grumbled because our teacher graded on a curve where the highest score was what everyone else was compared too.  However, I was never able to chit-chat in Spanish despite years in a Spanish congregation, Hispanic friends and Hispanic wife.  Why?  I didn't learn Spanish young enough.  Many brain experts say you learn languages best when young, generally before age 9 or 10.  I did learn Spanish as a teenager, in time I was able to give hour long Bible discourses at ease as an adult, but I still didn't feel comfortable just chatting and using idioms.  For that reason, your son needs as good a start in his early childhood, a lot of wonderful opportunities will be lost, and some parental alienation may have taken root, if we hang our expectation later on the preteen years.

Yes, you may not get all you want in these early years.  But don't fool yourself by thinking age 11 is enough.  That can be your last gasp alternative but there is so much more you can do in the next few years with strategies, documentation, solid legal advice and experienced peer support.

[ForMySon]

I understand what you are saying ForeverDad. That is my hope, and my son's best outcome is to spend as much time with me as possible.

I have started to calm down after ridding my life of the drama that was associated to that toxic relationship. For the first time in a couple of years I am able to use reason and logic in my own life. I see the path that I need to travel for my kiddo. To help him grow and learn to regulate himself in healthy and positive ways. I get what you are saying about waiting too long. I was just posting what I viewed to be my worst case scenario timeline.

I will fight until the end to have at least 50% and tie breaker status. I will know more Wednesday after the lawyer and I sit down for consultation.

[ForMySon]

So she decided that I am she doesn't feel safe enough to start the process of talking about child support and custody. This is the only message that I have received from her in a week. Then last night I go home to see that she has asked me to pay the comcast bill so that the internet and tv would start working at her house again. I had originally told her that all of the bills that were in my name comcast, water, and trash were to be out of my name by last Thursday. Instead of calling to setup service for herself she called and paid the past due portion of my bill! I don't want to leave my son without water, trash, and to some extent internet and cable, but I'm unsure how to respond in a way that sounds best for Colin.

What I have thought about is: "I know that it must be difficult to be without cable. The bills were supposed to have been changed over to your name this past Thursday. I will give one more week, and Thursday 4/6 will be the last day to have the services in your name."

Is that a good, level headed response to this situation?

[livednlearned]

It might be a good idea to run this by your L since you are meeting soon. In general, paying for her stuff this early in your case can go two ways.

For example, the courts may think you are capable of paying, so why not continue. Or, a judge may think she is so entitled that courts need to intervene in your favor.

For Internet/TV, you can probably cut services and it won't impact your case, but that's something to discuss with your L.

On a separate note, the email you plan to write is good and has some of the elements you want.

Strategically, you have a few options:

1. No response -- you've already warned her. Cut services.
2. Respond with: "Per my email dated month/day/year, I will be cutting services. As of month/day, these services will be cut. Please arrange to activate your own account so there is no break is service."
3. Continue to pay.

It looks like you are including a validating sentence in your email.

Validation when she is likely very emotionally aroused and maybe dysregulated probably won't have much affect, especially when there is a hard boundary on the table (cutting services).

"The bills were supposed to have been changed over to your name this past Thursday" is a bit accusatory, and with her being extremely hypersensitive, this is the part of the email she will likely lock onto. Nothing else will register.

Sometimes it's best to just say, in the most neutral way, what actions will happen, and when. One sentence or two max, if you can.

[david]

Run it by your attorney since things are done differently depending on the county.

Stating facts and not trying to explain works best for me. I learned that after trying everything else. You do need to figure out what works best for you.

When I explained I would get a reply that was all over the place. Eventually I saw that ex was reading into things and making conclusions based on what she was thinking or feeling at the time. Stating facts helps minimize all the ramblings in her head.

[ForMySon]

This was one of the points that I brought up with my L. She told me to go ahead and to have the services taken out of my name, and that if BPDx couldn't get things put into her name that s2 shouldn't stay there. I have been nice, and I have given an extra week hoping that these things would get taken care of. We were never married so division of household bills should never come up in our case. This case will just be about paternity, custody, and child support.

L&L - I like the way that you broke it out into 3 distinct ways to handle.
1) No response - cut services - This is the direction that I am leaning. There is no need to open dialog with her about this as my plan was stated. Not my fault she didn't heed the warning.
2) Respond - This is going to cause some form of extinction burst I feel. She isn't getting her way. There is no need to subject myself to this.
3)Continue to pay - This isn't an option. I can't continue to pay and fight for my child. Those funds are needed for the road ahead.

David - This is what I am trying to learn. I want to be able to look past all of the bad things that have happened. I have realized that the relationship is over, and trying to put effort into it is pointless. I'm trying to only make contact when I NEED to which is very hard as I want to be with my son. My therapist gets on me about being vague, and I know it's an issue currently yet it was how I handled damage control in my house. It seemed that speaking vaguely made it so that every statement couldn't be turned into a "lie".

The more I stay removed the healthier and more clear minded I become.

[livednlearned]

The more I stay removed the healthier and more clear minded I become.

Amen to that 

And like david said, try to limit your responses to facts, things that will happen. The more you write, the bigger the target, and that means more conflict.

"On day/date the services will no longer work. To continue services, please activate an account in your name."

It is not cruel to expect her to handle her own Internet services 

[david]

They used to say on this site that ,"negative engagement is still engagement." Over the years that is one thing that has stuck in my head. It has taken a deeper and deeper meaning.

In the beginning I would get a nasty email accusing me of xyz. I replied by defending myself. This would go back and forth with me trying to explain something again because I thought I wasn't being clear. I was blaming myself.

I then started deciding which to reply to and which to ignore. The ones I replied to led to the same conclusion of back and forth with no resolution.

I then started stating facts and holding myself back from replying. I realized I said what I was going to do and wasn't changing my mind. I wasn't being stubborn. Example, ex would ask me what time I was picking the boys up. Say she would say something like , "The boys will be available for pick up from 8 am until 10 am. Let me know what time you will pick them up ?" My reply would be, "I will pick the boys up at 8:30 am." She would then reply , "That is too early and you should pick them up at 10 am." I would not reply. She gave me the choice and I made a choice.

That started in 2008 and went through until present day. I evolved.

Things have changed and this example is how things work now. S13 has excema. I noticed last Thursday that he had two patches on his back after his shower. I put his prescription cream on them and later sent an email to ex ," S13 has two patches of excema on his back and needs help putting on the cream." He was with his mom for the weekend so I thought she would need to know. Also, since he is 13 he is washing himself and dressing himself without his mom's help so she would probably not notice. It was just chance that I saw it. Ex did not reply. I talked to S13 and told him to make sure his mom helps him with the cream and that I sent her an email to let her know. Well, I picked him up on Monday after school. He tells me that mom made a big deal about putting his cream on his back. It was a longer story and I just listened. He finishes with ," and mom said to make sure you tell your dad that he needs to put cream on your back when you see him." S13 said nothing that he knew I emailed her. The conversation then went in the direction of why does mom lie so much all the time. You can never believe anything she ever says. I listened and validated. I had no good answer but validation at that point was my best option. Back in 2008 I probably would have sent an email to ex telling her what happened and asking her why she did such a thing. That would have been upsetting to her and she probably would have done something to S13 in retaliation. I would then probably have gotten an email a few days later finding something wrong with me and we would have gone round and round with that. S13 would not talk to me as openly because he would realize there were negative consequences for that. No one would win.

[ForMySon]

So I responded to the questions about the account. My reply:

I know it must be frustrating to be without cable service. I will call the company tomorrow as they were closed tonight, and I will see what my options are for removing my name from the service. The water and trash will be disconnected from my name on 4/4.

To which I received the instant response:

I need more time and would like to think you don't want a child to go without.

That statement makes me want to engage in the argument with her. What she said isn't acceptable to how I really feel. I want to respond that if you can't get those services in your name maybe my son shouldn't be living with you. I know that's an emotional response, and I'm not going to send that. It's just going to lead down the rabbit hole.

It makes me happy that I finished filing the paperwork with the lawyer this evening. That the court date is no more than 6 and a half weeks out. I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now part of me hoping that it isn't a train.

[david]

I don't think I would respond to that. You said what you are going to do.
I don't think cable is that crucial for a 2.5 year old. I remember how things like that would upset me too. Even when I stopped responding it still bothered me. I realized it was upsetting me and nothing I said to my ex was going to change what she did. In fact, the more upset I was, and let her see it, the worst things got. Not reacting worked the best for me. It is difficult in the beginning.

[livednlearned]

I need more time and would like to think you don't want a child to go without.

I would read this as her projecting something onto you that predates your relationship, some kind of unfinished business with people who didn't show up and parent her properly.

In this story, she is the child, you are the parent. She wants you to take care of things, to take care of her. On her terms.  

There is no point in engaging with her because this is her play, her script, her roles. You are simply the latest to be cast in a role that she assigned.

Even if you protest the role she assigns you, or try to change the script she wants you to follow, you are still part of the drama.

If ever in doubt, answer less or don't answer at all.

Come vent here and say what you want to say.

We are good listeners for this stuff.  

[ForMySon]

Thank you for helping to break that down a little bit. It's sometimes hard having just started to clear the FOG from my life. I can't look at things how I used to yet. I know before I met her that I would have seen that for exactly what it was. I recognized it last night even still in the FOG some, and I haven't been able to keep the anxiousness from her responses at bay. I'm working hard for that goal though. I will also talk to my counselor about this next Thursday when I see her again to see if we can work on that anxious feeling when dealing with the BPDex.

My L also told me last night that I should do what I can to see my son. In order to do that I will have to start taking time from work to see him at daycare. It would only be able to be for about an hour or so at a time 2 days a week, but I don't have any other choices. I hope that she hasn't told daycare anything inappropriate, and I will be able to see him. I don't think there is much she can do the agreement that was submitted to daycare lists me as the father so I don't know what it would take to get that changed.

[livednlearned]

That's a great idea to see him at daycare. I hope you get to see him soon 

[ForeverDad]

When I explained I would get a reply that was all over the place. Eventually I saw that ex was reading into things and making conclusions based on what she was thinking or feeling at the time. Stating facts helps minimize all the ramblings in her head.

And like david said, try to limit your responses to facts, things that will happen. The more you write, the bigger the target, and that means more conflict.

If she is unable or unwilling to listen to reason, there there is no wisdom in trying to explain things to her.  If you can, simply state the situation and the reasonable remedy you chose.  This comes under the Boundary category.  State your boundary, don't request it, that can enable her to say No.  One reason you may decide to be a bit more verbose is so that you sound reasonable to the professionals who may have to get involved later on.  You want the judge, evaluators and others hearing you very reasonable even while being brief and firm for your boundaries.

[ForMySon]

Thank you all for helping me to see that I'm not alone in thinking that the comments she makes are unreasonable. After not responding to the last message I received this message (and I will try and lay out my reality of the situations as well)

So, this week I have discovered that you didn't pay any daycare money (like you claimed you did), nor any bills in your name (trash, water, and cable). A child (s2's name here) is living in the home and is going without due to this. You have also been disrespectful and inappropriate by not working with the child's mother to ensure the child does not go without.

A couple of things that I would like to say on this, and I would also like to know if there is anything worth saying to this.
     1) Currently all bills in my name are continuing service at the residence. He is not going without any services. I'm      
          really very torn between anger and confusion about this as cable is not a necessity but a want and her main focal
          point.
     2) The bills were supposed to have been switched out of my name on 3/23 this has been extended until 4/4. I  
          purposefully haven't paid some of them, because I will be using the deposit on the utilities to pay for the utilities. I
          don't think I need to explain this decision to her. They are my bills to pay as I see fit.
     3) I have a cashed check that I gave to daycare that proves that I actually did pay daycare on my week.
     4) Instead of getting the bills switched into her name she has just paid my bills. (Why?)
     5) That last statement eats at me, because he wouldn't have to do without if he was with me. It's not on me to       
          continue to provide her services. I feel that I have been reasonable in working with her in getting the bills
          switched out of my name.

So this was where I always tended to fall apart during the times of strife in the relationship, and we can see above where I still felt to come here and justify myself. This is where I would start to JADE with her in the relationship. I don't feel like this message even needs a response at this point. I have told her what I am going to do so she can accept it or not. The things I could say wouldn't be received in proper context, not would they benefit my current situation. Yet here I am still torn up about the message. How do I get past the FOG of responding to this woman? I know that it will take more time to become able to weather the storm. My foundation has been bombed repeatedly over the years, and now I'm rebuilding that foundation. Yet, I still feel like there is more that I can do to get past all of this.

[Panda39]

Hi ForMySon,

Good for you to pause and not shoot off a knee-jerk response to her communication! You're getting the hang of this 

My SO also got the "you're a bad dad" FOG blown his way.  You need to stop believing it.  Is your son going to starve, be out on the street, have no clothes because the cable is being shut off?  This is about your stbxw wanting cable for herself and trying to get something for nothing. Your son's well being is not tied to cable TV!

You know you paid daycare and have documentation... .no need to respond to that... .it's bait... .don't walk into the JADE/Circular Argument Trap.

I agree with what has already been said about the utilities you informed her of the change gave her time to switch them over... .completely reasonable... .just stick with your plan.  Be prepared for more bashing you over the head with your own child... .FOG... .but stick with the boundary. If you back down and continue to pay the bills indefinitely she will learn that using FOG in the form of your son works and she will continue to repeat the strategy to get anything and everything she wants. Take your name off the utilities

A child (s2's name here) is living in the home and is going without due to this. You have also been disrespectful and inappropriate by not working with the child's mother to ensure the child does not go without.

Besides being FOG the above could also be projection... projecting her feelings about herself on to you.

Here's what happens if we switch the pronouns around... .

A child (s2's name here) is living in the home and is going without due to this. I have also been disrespectful and inappropriate by not working with the child's father to ensure the child does not go without.

I know the urge to JADE is strong it is a natural response when you are under attack but it really goes no where with someone with BPD it just turns into the drama they want, the engagement they want (negative engagement is still engagment), and a circular argument that can go on for an eternity if you let it.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[ForMySon]

I agree Panda. Maybe that's why it upsets me so much. It isn't me that has the issue with trying to work together. I really have tried everything in my power to work with this woman. It just doesn't ever happen.

I do feel like I need to pay her back for the bills that she has "paid" instead of getting switched over. This hasn't been asked, but it is something that I feel responsible for. What would be the best way to pay her back for these bills? Should I write her a check? Do a transfer to her account from the account I can do that with? Should I make them individual so that the amounts reflect the bills that she paid in my name?

Why didn't she just get the bills transferred into her name?