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Author Topic: What now?  (Read 507 times)
TDeer
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« on: March 27, 2017, 12:19:10 PM »

Yesterday we saw my BPD MIL at lunch for my husband's birthday.

There was a fair bit of tantrums and whatnot occurring once my husband said he was bringing me. I hadn't seen her since our wedding in the summertime. My husband went to see his parents every two months, but alone, because BPD MIL was so nasty.

His sister "gave her mother a kick in the pants" on the phone in order to get her to show up to the lunch instead of acting the victim and staying home.

She had created a ton of drama before the wedding and still refuses to really clean up her side of the street, but I realize this is how cluster b personality disorders function.

So I went to this birthday for my husband since he wanted to try it. He set things up and told his mom I was coming and then she had tantrums, but still came in the end. He ignored the tantrums well - 20-30 text messages in one day trying to get attention.

So... .What next?

Yesterday was pleasant enough even though I was anxious before and somewhat during.

She theatrically held her arms wide and said "welcome!" to give me a hug when she came into the restaurant... .as if she needed to welcome me into a public place, but I didn't complain because it made things so much less awkward even though it was fake.


I used to believe everything she did was genuine. Now even though she seemed normal-ish for a couple of hours, I see through the ridiculous shenanigans.

FIL telling how his son was born... .and all about MILs labor and how long it took, etc. because that's normal... .(FIL is slightly weird, but generally ok)

I still have her blocked on social media, my phone, and my email. She is still trying victim mode, it's not likely she will try contacting me directly anyway. She's gonna try with someone who will give her the attention.


She gave him some old cards she gave him over the years as if that's a gift. They had both my name and husband's name written on the gift card they gave him, but the BPD MIL chimed in about how he could buy a new sport item with the card. Now I'm wondering if FIL and BPD MIL had agreed it was for both of us and then BPD MIL added that in later?

What do I look out for now? What do you all look out for on a regular basis from BPDs?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 12:43:32 PM »

IMHO, this went well.

She tantrumed to your H and he handled it. He also held a boundary- this is my wife and I want her here for my birthday.

MIL handled this the best she could. Kind of like a 4 year old being forced to sit at a family dinner. Minor issues are a victory.

This is something to repeat- over and over and over again, and eventually MIL will get the message: you and your H are together and she needs to just suck this up.

It may take several temper tantrums for a kid to learn he doesn't get cookies for dinner.

Nothing to watch out for. I think everyone involved did well with this. You even have other family members giving MIL a kick in the pants. These things are not learned overnight. She may still try to pull some of the garbage she does to test the situation, but so long as the two of you stand firm- "we are a couple"- you've got this.

One way to encourage this behavior is with some positive reinforcement. What you are doing- standing firm helps her learn that you two are a couple. Adding positive to this will encourage more of her good behavior. Since she tantrumed to your H, something positive from him- a phone call- saying "thank you for the birthday lunch Mom, it meant a lot to me and Tdear to all be together as a family and I really appreciated having this family time together".

Just like kids who behave badly get mostly negative attention, a little positive goes a long way. Your MIL learned that being a witch gets her what she wants, but behaving herself can too. Sure, it is fake- and may be at first, but positive reinforcement may lead to genuine behavior one day. No, it doesn't cure BPD but positive reinforcement encourages the good behavior regardless. 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 12:50:33 PM »

I was a small baby but a sibling was huge! My mother is a small person. I am sure it hurt to give birth to this sibling and she doesn't let that sibling forget it. So yes, the painful childbirth stories are weird, but in her world, your H's birthday was "her day in labor" day.
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TDeer
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 01:16:50 PM »

During the pre-birthday-lunch-preparations (i.e. - H talking to BPD MIL to tell her I was going etc.) she brought up saying that I never apologized to her.

Basically, I set boundaries and she didn't like it, so she didn't get invited to pre-wedding things.

That said, she then went into this conversation with my husband because she kept saying she wasn't ready to see me yet, etc.

He talked it through with her. She insisted again that she had apologized for pre-wedding drama etc.

Well, she insisted that H and I took her non-apology letter from April/May out of context.

She said we should have known it was really an apology (even though it wasn't written that way) because of "x, y, z" explanation.

Ok, great. She said this to my husband on the phone, but not to me. She said she was really sorry she said such horrible things about my family, etc.


Would it help to reinforce the good behavior to send her a card saying thank you? Or since she didn't actually say it to me do I ignore it?

I'd like to try to reinforce with positivity when possible. My husband said maybe after she stopped her tantrums (which did happen sometime before the lunch LOL).

I'm glad she at least SAID she was really sorry and she understood why I was upset FINALLY after the better part of a year, but is that enough? A friend of mine seemed to think it was just an attention seeking behavior.

Anyways, thank your for the feedback!

I guess I was just worried that something was going to happen because I really am still not 100% used to all of this and I like to try to anticipate what might make BPD MIL act out.

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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 05:49:34 PM »

I think trying to anticipate her behavior will make you crazy. It's like giving her more power to take up your thoughts and energy than it is worth. You and your H are just married- you have your whole lives ahead of you to create the family you want. MIL will not be a central part of it unless you allow her drama to get to you.

The thank you needs to come from your H. It is his BD lunch. He and MIL argued about you being there. She finally settled down and you were present. This is a win win. I wouldn't second guess it.

You will have opportunities to give MIL positive input. Does she celebrate Easter? Send her a lovely plant/flowers from the two of you. Happy Easter love from son and T dear. If not Easter, then do this for Mother's Day, or both. Then on her birthday- send a gift from the two of you. Christmas too. The point is to reinforce that you and her son are husband and wife- and she will gain positive attention from this, ( but with boundaries).

One day you may be a parent, and these behavior techniques- positively reinforce good behavior - and boundaries- also work with kids. The difference is that kids grow up, and your MIL is still emotionally a child.

Don't stress this. Instead of anticipating what she will do, just keep your boundaries and behavior techniques if she does act out.

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Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 07:25:52 AM »

Hi TDeer,

What I'm hearing is the natural wish of a daughter-in-law to be approved of by her mother-in-law.  The problem here of course is that your mother-in-law has a personality disorder she is not going to think or act like your average mother-in-law.

The hard part is not taking her behavior personally she is your husband's mother and you want her to like you.  But when you think in terms of someone with BPD... .Fear of Abandonment being a key feature, you are someone that is taking her son away from her (which of course isn't true but BPD isn't rational).  I see your MIL using this conflict to keep her son engaged with her (negative attention is still attention).  She is also creating triangulation with the three of you doing the dance around the "Karpman Triangle".

Karpman Triangle

The Karpman Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The roles are Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we. Link to more on the Karpman Triangle below... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

I don't have a BPDmom but do have a very critical mother and what I finally came to realize with her is that I will never be what/who she wants me to be and she will never be who/what I want her to be.  This may end up being the case between you and your mother-in-law as well.  I'm not suggesting you not have a relationship only the understanding that you might not ever have the ideal relationship because she simply isn't capable. 

When my mom starts criticizing I no longer take it personally,  I know I'm a great person just the way I am and because she doesn't like something I say or do is not a refection on who I am.  When she criticizes me now I know longer try to defend my position (JADE - Justify Argue Defend Explain) I just let it roll off.  My mantra is "that's her problem/issue it isn't mine".

I would let the whole apology thing go... .she's not capable and she and this issue are taking up too much of your energy and head space.  (I know this isn't easy and I know she owes you the apology but is all this stress about it doing any good?)

Everyone got through the day and you did a good thing for your husband on his birthday.  This is about you and your husband and only becomes about your MIL if you let it.

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
TDeer
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 10:13:20 AM »

I get what you're saying about realizing she should apologize, but letting it go since it's realistic with a BPD MIL.

That said, why is it that you think I want approval from my BPD MIL? I know she won't necessarily ever like me. I'm not sure what I want is approval. How would I know? I think what I want is to keep things moving as smoothly as possible.

This is like a classroom having to run as smoothly as possible. If it doesn't, then I realize I need to go back to the drawing board and work on some routines or issues. Sometimes it's a behavior contract, etc. With special education, there are special education requirements.

This isn't the first time that someone has suggested that I'm looking for my BPD MILs approval, but I'm not sure I see it that way or really understand what that means. I'm going to go ahead and live my life the way I want to regardless of what she does, but at the same time, I'm going to try to manage her (my husband at the forefront of this) as best as possible in order to minimize the stress her antics cause.

This is still my first year of marriage and I'd like to have the least-stressful-version of a relationship with BPD MIL as possible. It's a matter of practicality. I don't like her. I don't respect her. Nothing is going to change that unless she gets better, but she's not going to. She is more the invisible / higher functioning / narcissistic BPD that won't seek help. That's her.

I hope all this makes some sense. I do highly appreciate all of the input.

For example, Easter is coming up soon. Husband's sister mentioned getting together. As my parents don't live far from his parents, it may be possible to go to both houses that day if we agree to.

I'm just trying to make sense of a weird way of relating to my in laws. Meaning, I'm trying to get "up to speed" as quickly as possible so that I will be "proficient" in how to deal.
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Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 11:24:25 AM »

I see the desire for your MIL's approval as something natural, that all DIL's would want, nobody goes into a marriage wanting to not be liked or not get along with the spouse's family.  I see the desire for approval for your husband's sake because you are "all" his family, I think you don't want conflict with his mom (who would!) and I think if her approval didn't matter you would not be as upset/frustrated with her behavior towards you.  IMO If what she thinks didn't matter to you at all you wouldn't be here trying to figure things out. You'd be like so what... .I won't see her anymore... .end of problem (which is probably what you would do with any other random person in your life the you met and didn't connect with), but this is your MIL.

I think I may have upset you with my comment and I want you to know that was not my intent.

Take Care,
Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
TDeer
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 01:09:04 PM »

Panda,



 I'm not sure you upset me exactly, I just wanted to know where the idea was coming from that I wanted my BPD MILs approval since someone else had recently thought the same thing. I was curious as to where that idea was coming from, because maybe it was truer than I knew. If I can understand myself and the situation, then I can keep moving forward. I can keep understanding myself and work on healing myself overall vs expecting her to validate me.

I didn't want to see her anymore and that was how it was since before and at the wedding. This birthday lunch was the first time I saw her since I got married in the summer. My husband was fine with me not seeing her at all, but he also wanted to work on his FOO too.

At least we have his sister as an ally (and her husband) and somewhat (when he feels her can) his dad.




How does the drama triangle help? I've read it over and I get that she switches her own role a lot from aggressor into victim mode. I get that you have to let her just have her tantrum and not give her the attention until she's acting right again. Is there something else I'm missing?


Thank you again and again for your time and effort in helping me!  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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TDeer
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 01:10:18 PM »

Maybe this will just take time until it "clicks" what you mean about approval?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 05:46:10 AM »

Even if two people have dated a while and even lived together before getting married, the first year(s) of marriage are an adjustment. Two families are joining together- and all families have their own drama. For me, the drama started with the wedding plans. On one hand, BPD mom was planning the wedding ( and I had little say in that ). Then, the future MIL who I thought was a sweet lady started in with her demands too. There were times I contemplated eloping. As the "girlfriend" I was not involved in my H's family dynamics, but as a wife, the part changed.

I think it is natural to want to have a good relationship with your spouse's family. Maybe approval isn't the best word, but I think we do want our spouse's family to at least like us. So, it has to be a disappointment in a way when they don't. I was not really sure of my MIL- she is slow to warm up to, reserved, and doesn't show much affection or approval. I had hoped to have a good relationship with her- probably because I don't have a good relationship with my own mother, but I also had to accept her personality. She doesn't have BPD so we didn't have those issues.

I also think it is understandable to want to try to make the encounters with a BPD family member go as smoothly as possible. Some of their behaviors are understandable. However, when their emotions feel like facts to them, they can also be unpredictable. You mentioned the classroom idea- yes, it is good to have behavior plans in place, but also a pwBPD can be like that one kid in a class who you just don't know when he is going to disrupt the class, have a tantrum, hit another kid, or come to school upset about something that happened to him at home, or be having a really good day where things go well. All you can do is have a set of boundaries and the behavior plan as well as your own plan- not to lose it and yell at the kids.

The family dynamics in your H's family have been in place for a long time. You are  a relatively newcomer to all of this. If I can speak from the perspective of someone who also grew up in this style of family- I didn't want to take this stuff into my marriage. I wanted something more stable. The hard part is that we do take some of this into marriage- because- our parents were our role models- for better or worse. Most of them were not all bad or all good- we bring the good stuff too. But to undo some patterns may take some learning and work.

The other truth about relationships is that we often match our partners in some way when it comes to FOO dynamics. This was harder for me to see how my H and I matched as my FOO was so much more obviously dysfunctional. So here is where I think it may help to take the focus off MIL and on to you. Why do I say this? Because while I could see some of the craziness in my in laws, that part wasn't mine to fix, we can't fix other people's dysfunction. What helped me more was to look at my own- and even if our own issues aren't nearly as troublesome, we can all learn to fine tune relationship skills.

Where do we start- a good start is to examine what bothers us about what others say or do. These are our emotional triggers. So for instance, if I told you that you were a green alien from Mars, that likely won't upset you. Why? because you are certain you are not a Martian. You would think I was crazy to say that. But if someone says " you want your MIL's approval" and that statement results in an emotional response for you- that could be something for you to look at. The answer is personal to you. What is great about your marriage is that you and your H can create a different relationship than either of your families have. MIL will not be a central part of that- unless her drama becomes a focus. It isn't possible to control her behavior, but we can work on not letting drama bother us as much.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 06:02:48 AM »

I don't want to discourage you from posting about your MIL. The people who bother us the most give us opportunities to learn relationship skills. This is also something that helped me. I could say to someone "my mother said this to me - she is such a witch" and the person could say " yes, what a witch to say that" or the other option is " yes, she's mean, but why did that upset you? " -- that is the statement that could lead to growth and change.

I can't change my mother's behavior, but over time, I learned to be less reactive to it. It used to be that she would say something and I would be upset about it for a while, but that has changed to being upset for a shorter time. Sure, we still have feelings, but when I am less reactive to my mother's words, I have better boundaries with her.

So, when I have something to say about her, that can be a starting point to learning something.
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TDeer
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 02:05:07 PM »

www.mindbodygreen.com/0-18348/what-are-emotional-triggers-why-you-need-to-understand-them.html

I'm guessing this point on emotional triggers is what you're getting at?

I did some reading and I'm still not sure. I think that we get angry and upset because someone was a jerk and hurt us. I think it's that simple, but at the same time, I can see that sometimes there's something from when we were younger that hurt us that hurts again when we're older.

One the one hand, sometimes people are just mean and hurt others and then we are hurting because someone was mean. Pretty simple.

On the other hand, what you're saying is that sometimes we care MORE or possibly inordinately about something that someone else does because of how we struggled when growing up. - So you're saying if we know why, then we can learn to react less strongly to bad behaviors from our BPD relatives?

I think that my BPD MIL is just a pain due to her bad behaviors and I want to protect myself from further harm.

That makes total sense on the surface.

But maybe you could be right, that it bothers me even more than someone else might be bothered by it, because I was the youngest of many children and if I didn't learn to stand up for myself and do it on my own, then I got hurt sometimes by the teasing of my siblings. (We all love each other, but kids are sometimes mean.) So I want to stand up for myself now.

It took a lot of work on my part and my husband's part to work to let him deal with his BPD mother directly. What got us into the drama was that he asked me to talk to BPD MIL when she was having tantrums because he was so tired of dealing with her and at that point I was idealized. So he figured that I could help solve the problem. BAD IDEA.

Then she trashed me and I didn't see it right away. I was so wrapped up in trying to solve the problem like a normal person, that I didn't see that this person didn't want to solve a problem and was just trying to get attention, no matter what the cost.

So one point that we had to work on was us working directly with our families of origin in order to deal with conflict. Whereas my family respects the fact that you talk to FOO first and they deal with the inlaw spouses, his family does not understand this.


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