Painful ending to BPD/nonBPD codependant relationship

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi,

I have a long and painful story which I am still going through. I've only recently realised I was involved in a BPD/nonBPD codependant relationship where I was the caregiver.

This actually describes me quite well
www.untwist-your-thinking.com/codependency.html

We have 3 beautiful girls who I absolutely adore and I am as much a mother as I am a father (I can do anything the mother can do is what I mean). We had a 12 year relationship which was a rollercoaster for me. I fell very hard in love for her in the beginning. The first year was like nothing I've experienced. Once she moved in with me things changed. I saw the other angry side of her and I did not know how to deal with it. I think I had always held onto hope things would return to what they were like in the beginning.

The last two years we were together were actually very good and this was when we got married. I believe the reason they were good was because after a suicide threat, she went to phychiatry and was medicated. It really seemed to work and we had a lovely relationship for the most part.

Then my life started to go downhill starting in june 2016 then I would say became very painfull starting september 2016. Then I did the wrong thing by my ex in late October and from there my life became a real hell.

I suffered with issues with my job for many months then I started to stay busy with projects around the home. I think this only added to my stress. My BPD partner who I thought was bipolar and I both went off our antidepressants without medical advice then everything went really bad. I became more sensitive and she became very aggressive. I couldn't do anything right by her no matter how hard I tried. It was a stupid mistake in hindsight. We were both smoking a lot of weed which I think made things worse for us both. I know it definitely did for me... .

I have always been the sole income earner and she never had to worry about money. With the pressure of work and life stress getting to me I tried to talk to my partner for emotional support, but it fell of deaf ears. Apparently she understood what I was going through because she was going through it too ?

I took on more work around the house and taking care of the kids as she kept using the promise of sex to get me to do more. It hurt me very deeply when I would always comply to her requests be she would always make excuses to not go through with her end of the deal she made. After a while I withdrew from the relationship and as I saw her talking to her ex on facebook and deleting messages, I thought the worst and I do actually think she had an emotional connection with him - I ended up seeing a couple of working girls and she found out. I don't know why I did that - maybe it was excapism and knowing I dont have to feel rejection with working girls. It didnt help the pain, just make it worse. I admit I did the wrong thing and have been very regretful and remorseful since... .To this day its something I will always regret.

After she found out, she left for a week and during which she visited her ex, while leaving me to care for the kids. The next 4 months I did everything I could to reconcile and appease her. She told me to jump and I would say how high. She managed to convince the counsellor I was the one with BPD, although what I was going through was actually depression and extreme anxiety, in reaction to her verbal and psychological abuse. She would call me awful things and then 5 minutes later behave like nothing happened. She would yell at me and the accuse me of yelling at her.  She would yell at the children and tell me I made her do it. She made me get a unit and leave the house, then told me to get rid of it. She stayed in the master bedroom while I stayed in a small room downstairs. She accused me of being controlling manipulative and abusive for our entire relationship and would tell me things that I did that I have no recollection of. My life was awful but I couldn't muster up the strength to leave although I wanted to. I was also concerned for the kids and I did as much as I could for them while returning to full time work. The only thing that made me remotely happy during this time was spending time with the children. I would sing with them, play with them, take them out and spend a lot of time with them.

I look back and the only times she was decent to me was when she wanted something in return, like for me to pay for something relatively expensive.

There is a lot more that happened during this period. Maybe in some ways I deserved it. During the times she abused me I really thought I'd be better off dead. It was very painful. I knew I could never because of the children  - I always had my sister and fathers words in my head preventing me from even taking the first steps to do anything like that.

I did a lot of self-reflection during this period to wonder how I got to this point. I realised that my biggest problem was being unable to communicate. I thought if I cannot communicate with my partner I just have to suck it up and take it. Now I realise there is other support out there and I just needed to reach out. I'm very much now an open book and being able to talk about things is the single biggest life changing step that has enabled me to grow.

Unfortunately as time went on my BPD partner got more and more abusive and erratic. She demanded I stop talking to people. She demanded I stop talking to my family and in particular my sister who she called toxic. It made me feel like she was getting me to choose between her and my family and it tore me up inside. I became very scared of her. I was walking on eggshells every day of my life.

One day, after I tried to talk to her to reason and apologise for what I did, she physically abused me. Punching, slapping, kicking etc and then backed the car onto me, driving off. I called an ambulance because I was injured and couldn't look after the children. I was so shaken up in disbelief. I asked her to return because I was physically unable to look after the children but she told me she didnt care and to f*** off . I called my sister for helpe who told me to get an ambulance. Then it got worse - when my sister arrived. She returned and ordered the kids to pack a bag and left with them. I felt powerless to stop her. The ambulance called the police but she left before they arrived.

Two days later I was served with a domestic violence order, with the children named on the order. The order was filled with false allegations but there was nothing I could do. I never knew the system worked that way - it seemed absurd she could write some crap without any evidence and I am then treated like a criminal. I was unable to contact my children or talk to them. I was unable to see them at school. I have taken legal action but its been over 5 weeks since I have seen my little ones. She has refused all access to them and alienated me from their lives.

She is now making allegations I am suicidal and mentally unfit to father. She has also recently told my father that my intentions are to take the kids and kill them before committing suicide. She claims she has evidence to back her claims but I know this cannot be true. She even tells my own family not to trust what I say as I lie about everything. While the domestic violence order stands she maintains full custody and has filed for child support which is going to take almost half my income.  

I have a hell of a lot of evidence against her including abusive text messages, voicemail messages and conversation recordings which I know will back my case, but its a very painful wait before there are actual court proceedings. I am confident I will win in court - all I want is equal custody and her out of my life. It just been a very painful road... .

I still care for her, I still feel bad for her. I wish it was easy just to block her out of my head but a big part of me is still in love with her.

This is my story so far... .

[Vladdy]

Hi,

I have a long and painful story which I am still going through. I've only recently realised I was involved in a BPD/nonBPD codependant relationship where I was the caregiver.

This actually describes me quite well
www.untwist-your-thinking.com/codependency.html

We have 3 beautiful girls who I absolutely adore and I am as much a mother as I am a father (I can do anything the mother can do is what I mean). We had a 12 year relationship which was a rollercoaster for me. I fell very hard in love for her in the beginning. The first year was like nothing I've experienced. Once she moved in with me things changed. I saw the other angry side of her and I did not know how to deal with it. I think I had always held onto hope things would return to what they were like in the beginning.

The last two years we were together were actually very good and this was when we got married. I believe the reason they were good was because after a suicide threat, she went to phychiatry and was medicated. It really seemed to work and we had a lovely relationship for the most part.

Then my life started to go downhill starting in june 2016 then I would say became very painfull starting september 2016. Then I did the wrong thing by my ex in late October and from there my life became a real hell.

I suffered with issues with my job for many months then I started to stay busy with projects around the home. I think this only added to my stress. My BPD partner who I thought was bipolar and I both went off our antidepressants without medical advice then everything went really bad. I became more sensitive and she became very aggressive. I couldn't do anything right by her no matter how hard I tried. It was a stupid mistake in hindsight. We were both smoking a lot of weed which I think made things worse for us both. I know it definitely did for me... .

I have always been the sole income earner and she never had to worry about money. With the pressure of work and life stress getting to me I tried to talk to my partner for emotional support, but it fell of deaf ears. Apparently she understood what I was going through because she was going through it too ?

I took on more work around the house and taking care of the kids as she kept using the promise of sex to get me to do more. It hurt me very deeply when I would always comply to her requests be she would always make excuses to not go through with her end of the deal she made. After a while I withdrew from the relationship and as I saw her talking to her ex on facebook and deleting messages, I thought the worst and I do actually think she had an emotional connection with him - I ended up seeing a couple of working girls and she found out. I don't know why I did that - maybe it was excapism and knowing I dont have to feel rejection with working girls. It didnt help the pain, just make it worse. I admit I did the wrong thing and have been very regretful and remorseful since... .To this day its something I will always regret.

After she found out, she left for a week and during which she visited her ex, while leaving me to care for the kids. The next 4 months I did everything I could to reconcile and appease her. She told me to jump and I would say how high. She managed to convince the counsellor I was the one with BPD, although what I was going through was actually depression and extreme anxiety, in reaction to her verbal and psychological abuse. She would call me awful things and then 5 minutes later behave like nothing happened. She would yell at me and the accuse me of yelling at her.  She would yell at the children and tell me I made her do it. She made me get a unit and leave the house, then told me to get rid of it. She stayed in the master bedroom while I stayed in a small room downstairs. She accused me of being controlling manipulative and abusive for our entire relationship and would tell me things that I did that I have no recollection of. My life was awful but I couldn't muster up the strength to leave although I wanted to. I was also concerned for the kids and I did as much as I could for them while returning to full time work. The only thing that made me remotely happy during this time was spending time with the children. I would sing with them, play with them, take them out and spend a lot of time with them.

I look back and the only times she was decent to me was when she wanted something in return, like for me to pay for something relatively expensive.

There is a lot more that happened during this period. Maybe in some ways I deserved it. During the times she abused me I really thought I'd be better off dead. It was very painful. I knew I could never because of the children  - I always had my sister and fathers words in my head preventing me from even taking the first steps to do anything like that.

I did a lot of self-reflection during this period to wonder how I got to this point. I realised that my biggest problem was being unable to communicate. I thought if I cannot communicate with my partner I just have to suck it up and take it. Now I realise there is other support out there and I just needed to reach out. I'm very much now an open book and being able to talk about things is the single biggest life changing step that has enabled me to grow.

Unfortunately as time went on my BPD partner got more and more abusive and erratic. She demanded I stop talking to people. She demanded I stop talking to my family and in particular my sister who she called toxic. It made me feel like she was getting me to choose between her and my family and it tore me up inside. I became very scared of her. I was walking on eggshells every day of my life.

One day, after I tried to talk to her to reason and apologise for what I did, she physically abused me. Punching, slapping, kicking etc and then backed the car onto me, driving off. I called an ambulance because I was injured and couldn't look after the children. I was so shaken up in disbelief. I asked her to return because I was physically unable to look after the children but she told me she didnt care and to f*** off . I called my sister for helpe who told me to get an ambulance. Then it got worse - when my sister arrived. She returned and ordered the kids to pack a bag and left with them. I felt powerless to stop her. The ambulance called the police but she left before they arrived.

Two days later I was served with a domestic violence order, with the children named on the order. The order was filled with false allegations but there was nothing I could do. I never knew the system worked that way - it seemed absurd she could write some crap without any evidence and I am then treated like a criminal. I was unable to contact my children or talk to them. I was unable to see them at school. I have taken legal action but its been over 5 weeks since I have seen my little ones. She has refused all access to them and alienated me from their lives.

She is now making allegations I am suicidal and mentally unfit to father. She has also recently told my father that my intentions are to take the kids and kill them before committing suicide. She claims she has evidence to back her claims but I know this cannot be true. She even tells my own family not to trust what I say as I lie about everything. While the domestic violence order stands she maintains full custody and has filed for child support which is going to take almost half my income.  

I have a hell of a lot of evidence against her including abusive text messages, voicemail messages and conversation recordings which I know will back my case, but its a very painful wait before there are actual court proceedings. I am confident I will win in court - all I want is equal custody and her out of my life. It just been a very painful road... .

I still care for her, I still feel bad for her. I wish it was easy just to block her out of my head but a big part of me is still in love with her.

This is my story so far... .

[takingandsending]

Hi Vladdy and welcome to bpdfamily.

A lot of your experiences are shared by the community on this website. It can be very disorienting and bewildering to meet someone who thinks the world of you one day and then strikes out at you the next. And it's natural that you still have feelings for your wife and find her behaviors confusing. People with BPD/NPD are operating from a place that most of us don't experience, which makes it very challenging to communicate or understand them and even harder to makes ourselves understood to them. Those of us in or having just left those relationships are often filled with self-doubts and uncertainty. Basically, being subjected to emotional and verbal abuse on a frequent basis undermines our notion of normal, fair, reasonable, acceptable. It takes some time to step out of the Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) that come in these relationships, but it is definitely possible.

You stated that you are currently prohibited from seeing your kids due to the DV order, and you have filed a legal action ... .to overturn the DV? Have you consulted an attorney? It is really important, for the sake of your children, to understand the types of things that you may encounter in custody or divorce proceedings with your wife. I recommend that you read a copy of Bill Eddy's book, "Splitting" and ":)on't Alienate the Kids" as you go through this process. Selecting a lawyer who is competent and experienced in cases involving a spouse with a personality disorder is best, one who has trial experience.

Be cognizant that courts often want to do what is least perceived as least disruptive in the children's lives, i.e. not change what is already established. It's important that you gain access to your children and establish some residential time. Do you currently have a place of your own that you are living? Is your family helping you out at all? Are you back on your medication for depression? Lastly, are you seeing a counselor or getting any support for yourself?

It sounds as if you have already been doing some research into the BPD and co-dependent behavioral dynamics. There are excellent articles and tools on this website that help to shed some light on the types of behaviors that you have experienced. And learning will help you help your children as they negotiate life with a BPD mom. I do recommend reading and learning some of the tools on the Saving and Improving boards to better understand how and why things are as they are. The communication tools can help, even during the divorce process.

I am sorry for all the turmoil that you have been experiencing. Hang in there and keep posting. You are not alone.

[Vladdy]

Thanks so much for your reply. I wasn't expecting anything so soon.

Currently I am living at the family home alone. I'm working full time and fortunately my job is flexible and I am allowed to work at home most of the time, which is good because in the first few weeks I lived in fear she would show up and try to take more things from the home. When she raised the DVO, she wanted an ouster order to kick me out but the judge did not grant it since I was not present to defend myself. She actually got in touch with me over a friends facebook and tried to blackmail me with the DV, saying if I get out so she and the kids return she would remove the DVO and let me see the kids. She made me feel really guilty and told me the kids were suffering because it was all my fault, even though she was the one that took the extreme actions. I was torn over this as I really did consider it because of the children, but I already had lawyers involved and when I showed my lawyer the text exchange, he said its an obvious misuse of the DV system in order to gain leverage and not to try to negotiate with her, as there would be nothing stopping her from raising another DV once she was back in the home to block my access. Fortunately I have all details of her blackmail attempt which I am sure will will provide strong evidence in my case.

Yes, I have legal proceedings underway. I originally had a lawyer who tried to take a slow 'nice' approach and offer parental plan of equal custody which she rejected flatly and would only offer supervised care once a fortnight. Also saying the courts can work out custody. With the DVO in place it gives her a lot of power. It lets her keep the children in sole custody and alienates me from their lives. Its also a slow process so it takes several months before I am actually able to defend myself in court. I was frustrated with the lawyer so I changed. The change was positive and I raised a cross DVO against her (my DVO is legit and I have a lot of solid evidence to back it). I also raised an application to vary to remove the children from the order and it was heard within a week in court, but it was just a mention, so no evidence or arguments could be heard at this time. She consented to my DVO but opposed the variation to remove the children which was against her own legal advice (I know this because the lawyers talked over the phone). This matter has been ajourned until next month. Fortunately my lawyer was able to obtain video contact with my children twice a week before the court hearing after some fairly aggressive negotiation.

I have had two video calls with my girls so far. The first time my 7yo broke down crying saying she missed me so much and just wanted to hug me. It was so painful to watch. I had to hold back my own emotions and encourage her to be strong. The call ended with her still crying.

The latest on the matter is she is claiming I am mentally unstable and suicidal therefore unfit to parent. She is demanding I go for a psychiatric evaluation, which I have no problem with and agreed to provided she does the same. Her claims are becoming more extreme, with her last telling my father she believes that I will kill the children and take my own life if I have unsupervised care?  Its just crazy!

My own health is quite good. Mentally I am a lot stronger and I have had continuous counselling throughout the ordeal. The distance between us has actually helped me as I no longer suffer extreme anxiety now I am not subjected to her verbal abuse. I am on antidepressants and I do still have bad days where I am very sad, but I assume this is normal given the situation. I just miss my kids so much.

I have definitely found reading about BPD very helpful in understanding my entire relationship. Recently finding articles on BPD/nonBPD codependency relationships was also insightful, as I've been pondering for months what has been wrong with me to contribute to the dysfunctional relationship.

I understand now how her distortion has made it impossible to communicate with her. Projection has also been very clear and I understand her hatred of me is due to her splitting. Its still very hard to understand how the BPD mind works as its very irrational and unpredictable.

[Vladdy]

One thing that has bothered me throughout all of this is how I can help her.

I know inside she is tormented and has extreme irrational thoughts. She was formally diagnosed with Bipolar/BPD 2 years ago, but since I went into depression, she claimed because I have a mental illness, it means her previous diagnosis is null and void, so she believes she is fully functioning and mentally stable.

My interactions as well as my family's interacting with her show she is textbook Acting Out BPD. If you don't agree with her, you are not listening. If you are not listening, you are likely to be accused as being nasty and will be cut off. This is what she did to my sister. Nothing is ever her fault and everything is my fault. Even text exchanges show obvious signs of BPD. I am accused of lying to everyone and she even tells my family not to trust me because I lie. The honest truth is I have never been more open and honest in my communications and I am not afraid or ashamed to talk about my own issues or problems. It gives me a lot of relief.

I am guessing that unless she admits she might have a problem, she is not going to seek help. Unless she seeks help, she cannot change. Would I be right in making that assumption? I think its called BPD denial?

I have conversation recordings that show clear BPD traits. I wonder if she heard herself in these, she might think wow I said that, or would she think her behaviour is normal?

Examples
Her: you don't care about me
Me: yes I do care, I care a lot
Her: No you don't, you only care about yourself

Regarding the car not starting - she asked me for help but I couldn't fix it:
Her: You blamed me for it
Me: I didn't blame you? you asked for my help so I tried to help? How did I blame you for anything?
Her: Yes you did blame me, because I asked for help, you turned it all around on me, therefore its all my fault

[takingandsending]

Hi Vladdy.

Well, I am really glad that you have a proactive attorney, and that you have video contact with your children for the time being. Given the information that you have, you could press for more than 50/50 custody, or at the least 50/50 with you being custodial parent that can make decisions on health care, schools, etc.

The latest on the matter is she is claiming I am mentally unstable and suicidal therefore unfit to parent. She is demanding I go for a psychiatric evaluation, which I have no problem with and agreed to provided she does the same.

So, one common recommendation on this board is that you do agree to get an evaluation to leverage your wife to get an evaluation. However, you and your attorney present three local, reputable psychiatrists that are familiar with personality disorders and stipulate a time that the evaluation must be completed. Odds are, you will complete your evaluation and she will find reasons to delay and avoid hers. Disclosure of results to court upon completion of both.

I am glad that you are getting counseling support. What a hard time! And yes, distance is incredibly helpful and healing.

As far as how you can help your wife ... .ultimately, she needs to help herself. I heard a statistic once that 80% of people with mental illness do not perceive themselves as ill at all - rather, they perceive everyone else as being off. Here are a few helpful tools in communicating with your wife and not making things worse that you can consider:
1. For a person with BPD, feelings=facts. To some extent, this is true for all of us, but the pwBPD experiences this in an intensely heightened way. So in your examples of conversation, "you don't care about me" = fact. You denying, arguing, defending is a lie. The real feeling underneath it is likely, "I feel so worthless, I hate myself, I am afraid", but that never gets close to seeing the light of day. So the feeling is projected out onto you, you hate me, you think I am worthless, you don't care. The more you deny it, the more you invalidate the feelings of the pwBPD, which causes their feelings to become escalated even further. Logic will be defeated every time - so don't bother.
2. Kind of already hinted at in 1., do not Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain (JADE). This is like rocket fuel for the pwBPD - it takes their already volatile feelings and escalates to a level that causes everyone discomfort, causes everyone to lose.

A lot of the communication tools on this website focus on how not to make things worse, because that is what most of us do by having normal, human reactions to our pwBPD's accusations, threats, insults, distortions. In my own experience with my xw, I found conscientiously avoiding JADEing did reduce our conflict. Likewise, trying to provide validation without agreement also reduced our conflict. Ultimately, I was never able to improve our communication enough to make staying in the conflict worthwhile or healthy (for me or my sons).

Right now, you may be feeling grief over the real possibility of your relationship ending, over what you had hoped it to be. But, as far as helping your wife, she needs to want help. If she has a formal diagnosis, stopped taking her meds, and is receiving no other form of treatment, it sounds as if she has made her choice.  I am sorry. And it's true that many pwBPD are tormented and have suffered abuse in their lives. In the end, through brain chemistry or just habitual use of coping mechanisms that most people outgrow, they never grew beyond those unhealthy coping mechanisms.

[Vladdy]

Thank you again for replying. You are obviously very insightful.

Is there any reason you think I would push for more than 50/50 custody? While I just want what is fair for myself and the children, she has always been a great mother. I am concerned on what may  be happening behind closed doors - What she may be telling them etc, but from the communication I have had with them they do appear to be normal and happy, although they are only 9, 7 and 2.

The psychiatric evaluation we are doing exactly that. My lawyer is choosing a panel of 3 psychiatrists in which she can choose one for us both to be assessed by. From what she has told my family, she believes I am suicidal because I suffered from depression and severe anxiety. I know this was reactive to the situation - both from the guilt I felt in hurting her and the regular verbal and psychological abuse. I genuinely did have thoughts of suicide from time to time - but I was very open about it to family members and professionals. I am in no way suicidal now and have not had any thoughts for quite some time. I do believe there is a big difference between having thoughts of suicide (just wanting to make the emotional pain stop), suicide threats (which she accused me of doing - but had previously done herself) and actually carrying out or taking steps towards actually doing it. Her arguments will probably not carry too much weight, considering I was left as their sole carer for days at a time when she had both planned and unplanned absences (one of which I was so worried I called the police and she was a missing person) before she took the children and served me with the DVO.

I believe she is using psych evaluation as an excuse to delay further legal proceedings. She will have comfort while having the children in her sole care as this gives her the feeling of control. After further reading I am cautious that she may take more drastic steps if she doesn't get her way. The accusations of her claiming I would take the children's lives before my own I find both ludicrous and disturbing. Its like saying 1 +2 = 100. I did get to to video chat with the children tonight and in their kitchen while making pizza and I noticed a "trust your instincts" sign on the wall (I find unsettling for BP in denial).   

I do not think this evaluation should postpone legal proceedings regarding custody. Where I am, mediation is a pre-requisite before going to the court if custody cannot be agreed upon. I have organised mediation to occur Wednesday next week which I am looking forward to (any progression I look forward to). I know she is upset with this as she was expecting the psychiatric evaluation to occur first, however organizing this is taking time so I would rather not wait (it was her trying to dictate terms anyway). I have spoke to the mediator and he has said they will not want to listen to unfounded claims and mediation can be conditional (custody granted on the basis of psychiatric results).

I am still happy to partake in the psychiatric assessment as I also want her to undergo one. I do wonder how easy it would be for a psychiatrist to identify BPD, especially if they are in denial? They are very cunning creatures and can be very convincing. I am praying it is diagnosed, as then she may actually get help!

I think the only way we could reconcile is if she did get help. I am not holding onto it however as I  do feel it unlikely unfortunately.

I wish I had paid more attention to her previous diagnosis of Bipolar/BPD. I only focused on Bipolar which didn't seem to match. BPD is an undoubted match and looking back on our entire relationship, I can now see the patterns were obvious. Her twisting what I said, saying I said things I didn't were constant points of arguments in our relationship. I'm continuing to read and learn. Understanding BPD helps with the process.

I will also continue to work on my own issues as being a nonBPD codependent was very difficult and I do want to learn and grow for myself.

[takingandsending]

Vladdy,

The fact that she ran over you (vehicular assault) is one reason that I would strongly consider more than 50% custody. You sound like a decent person. Of course, you want to be fair. But some of that gets conflated with the fear, OBLIGATION, and guilt that accompanies many relationships with pwBPD. You were probably very used to feeling obligated to do this, that or everything to keep your marriage functioning. But that isn't normal. It isn't healthy. And there's no reason to believe that it will be any better for your children when they are in relationship with mom.

I, too, sought only 50% custody, but on the basis that my xw is fairly high functioning and hasn't done anything like running me over with her car, striking me or the kids or threatening any type of violence. If she had ever done any of those things, I would be going for full custody, if only to protect my sons from possibly receiving that same type of treatment. I guess, what I am saying is that, your principal role is to consider what is in your children and your best interest, not your wife's best interest. A parent with BPD often sees their child as an extension of themselves, and they use their child to help define who they are. This doesn't end up well for the child, who needs an attached, emotionally stable adult to help them grow and validate who they are. I can see it with my own wife, how she uses the boys to validate her own self worth and completely blows up when they show any resistance or independence that doesn't go with the program. That's not what a parent is supposed to do. My xw does many wonderful things for the kids, and she surely does love them ... .to the extent that she is capable of. It's just that her capacity is not going to meet their needs. Does that make sense to you?

For example, you fear parental alienation is happening. Why? What exactly would a healthy adult parent expect their 9, 7 and 2 year old child to do with the information that dad is a real creep, bad guy and not to be trusted? Even if it were all true, a healthy parent would recognize that their kids are going to have all sorts of conflicted emotions with that type of information and seek to protect them from it. A pwBPD will use their children to seek validation for their feelings=facts world. Over the long term, that is going to have negative consequences on the kids attachment to and nourishment from the relationship with that parent. All of these are reasons that I would suggest asking for more than 50% custody. No vengeance. No cruelty to your wife. Kindness to your children.

[Vladdy]

Hi Again,

I really appreciate your input. I know I am a decent person. I've always tried to be kind to others but I guess this can be a problem when you give too much of you to others you lose yourself and end up in bad situations. I realise now giving too much is a problem of mine and it probably led to my BPD partner to be dependant on me for so many things and also gave her a sense of self-entitlement.

Fortunately she did not run over me. She hit me reversing out quickly and stopped when the car hit me. I guess I should thank I am lucky she stopped. Still, she knew I was there and backed out, it happened so fast and I was shocked she actually did it.

You are very correct in the way you said they see the children as an extension of themselves. She treats them like they are her property. She talked about her and the kids being a "package" and "me and the kids have rights too". When really the issues were between her and myself.  Ironically weeks before she had this paranoia that my family would take the kids away from her, when I never had any intention and no matter what assurances I gave that I wouldn't, it ends up being what she does! Would that be a good example of projection? 

I guess when I say parental alienation is happening, I only know that she is keeping the children away from me as much as possible. I have no idea what she is telling them, what they are thinking, if they are asking questions etc. I actually get to see them for the first time tomorrow in 5 weeks for a supervised visit for 4 hours. I'm both angry and hurt that she is able to have this level of control over my access to the children by abusing the DV system. I will hopefully be able to have a good open talk with each of them tomorrow.

I must admit I am having real trouble coping with her splitting on me. She now sees me as all bad from talks with my family, her opinion and assumptions of me are very incorrect, cruel and down right far fetched. I gave so much to her over our relationship, but she doesn't see any of it now. I have to try to get this out of my head and focus on the children. I need to try to accept we aren't ever getting back together, but its a difficult pill to swallow... .I still love and care for her very deeply and I'd like to see her get some real help. I wish I knew about BPD years ago.

[takingandsending]

Hi Again,
Ironically weeks before she had this paranoia that my family would take the kids away from her, when I never had any intention and no matter what assurances I gave that I wouldn't, it ends up being what she does! Would that be a good example of projection? 

Yes, Vladdy, that exactly describes projection. I pray your visit with your kids goes well. Try to validate whatever they are feeling, let them know that their feelings are okay - anger, sadness, fear. Don't put them in the middle by asking about your wife or talking about what she has done. Just love them. I am guessing you know all this already.

Let us know how it goes and how you are doing after. Hang in there. This is a season; it will change.

[Vladdy]

Thank you again takingandsending,

I have spoken with my sister about this. She is very intelligent and has read many books on BPD and my wife targeted her calling her toxic, I think because she called her out. My sister warned me it will likely get nasty and advised I get a DVO a month before it was done to me. I should have listened but I always try to see the best in people and thought she would never go there. How wrong was I?

So one thing we discussed is her recent accusation that I would take my own life along with my children. This is very a very extreme and serious accusation that I am concerned about. While I admit depression and anxiety has got the best of me in the past and from time to time you just want the pain to stop, thoughts of suicide do enter your mind. Thinking about it is one thing, but acting on it is something different entirely. Thoughts of harming my children have never entered my life in any way, shape or form. I find it very disturbing she would go there.

My worry is - could this be another projection? 


The day with my children was amazing. It was like we've never been apart. I wrote something about it that I am happy to share - this was my day:


There was magic in the air today,
after six long weeks that felt like six long months,
I was able to hold my babies again,
The first thing I saw was the bright blue sky,
the colour of my eldest child’s blue eyes,
As I held her in my arms like it was yesterday,
my little tiger came in like a ray of sunshine,
her smile filled my world and I felt such joy,
Then the littlest of purities entered the room,
and I could feel my heart beat once again,
Holding all three girls in my arms was like a dream,
my emptiness was suddenly filled with happiness,
overflowing as tears rolled down my chin,
“I missed you”, “I love you” is all that could be heard.
Its true what they say… time goes fast when you’re having fun,
there is comfort in familiarity and I’ve never felt so at ease,
any nerves I had disappeared and it felt so natural,
A father and his three daughters,
like we have never been apart.
the day was like a rainbow,
even more colourful that I could have ever imagined.
The clock ticks and time moves on,
my heart starts skipping beats,
This day like every other must come to an end.
As I see the borderline on my eyes close,
The sunshine slowly fades, as the blue is taken away,
Time to go… the little tiger has to leave,
I hold the smallest fairy before she must fly away.
Joy turns to sorry, as I hold my emotions in,
When darkness finally falls, I cry enough tears to fill all the oceans.
Eventually there is silence, there is still,
I am broken but not beaten, as I rise to my feet,
The lessons I have learned have made me grow,
I can only become stronger even though I feel weak,
As I fight for what is right, for what is true,
I will never give up my little girls, I will never give up on you!
Love and truth will always prevail over hatred,
Time will show this, I promise you….

[ForeverDad]

She is demanding I go for a psychiatric evaluation, which I have no problem with and agreed to provided she does the same.

So, one common recommendation on this board is that you do agree to get an evaluation to leverage your wife to get an evaluation. However, you and your attorney present three local, reputable psychiatrists that are familiar with personality disorders and stipulate a time that the evaluation must be completed. Odds are, you will complete your evaluation and she will find reasons to delay and avoid hers. Disclosure of results to court upon completion of both.

I concur, you agree to a psych eval or other testing only as long as they are orders that apply to both of you.  (Admittedly, if the court makes a one-sided order, that's out of your hands but at least try to get both parties evaluated or tested equally.)  One problem often is that most courts see an allegation and only seek to get the one being alleged sorted.  My experience ... .I somehow managed to get the court to order a psych eval ordered for both of us with results to be shared with lawyers and court.  I promptly took my psych eval, administered by a local college grad student.  Anxiety was the conclusion.  Whoopee.  Crickets from my Ex, so far as I know (over a decade later) she never got that ordered evaluation.  I was so frustrated, I complied but she didn't comply and no consequences for her.

I told myself that if I was ever in a similar situation again where both needed to respond/reveal then I'd add a double check, once I had my results I would not share them, instead I would tell my lawyer to report, "We have the required information.  We are ready to exchange information."  No more "Here, take my data, pretty please let me glimpse your data."

As for wanting to help your spouse, as already noted, she is not responding positively to you.  A dozen years together and it's gone downhill.  She's not listening to you now, rather she's opposing and obstructing you now, viciously.  Now she's making allegations that if believed could put you in jail.  How can you 'help' someone doing that?  In her mind you're no longer Mr Nice Guy, you're Mr Evil Personified.  A dozen years with probably minimal police or legal entanglements and now you're worse than pond scum to be blocked and the key thrown away.  Sadly, your priority can't be her, she's an adult, responsible for herself, besides, you will be surprised how willing the professionals around the court system will jump to support her.  It's you you need to care about, you and your children are the priorities now.

Beware of the 'supervised' trap.  If that's what is ordered for you, you have no choice.  But beware of volunteering for supervised because it could be interpreted by court or the professionals as some sort of admission that there's something 'substantively' wrong with you.  AFAIK, there are only 2 reasons for supervised, (1) it is very temporary until evaluations can be quickly made to determine whether the kids are safe with you or (2) there is risk to the children of 'substantive' child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.

My ex made allegations and an ex parte was issued just on her claims to protect them from me until a hearing could be held where we BOTH got to speak.  It was held less than two weeks later.  Fortunately, CPS showed up at that hearing, stated they had "no concerns" about me and so our son was removed from that protective order.  That's when court set up a "normal" parenting schedule.  Unfortunately, the person who made the unsubstantiated claims got temp custody and temp majority time.

[Vladdy]

None of the testing is ordered by the courts. Its only between lawyers so I don't even really think she is in a position to demand one. I will however be happy to go for one provided she does too. I'm hoping that sms and audio evidence can be given to the psychiatrist before the sessions, as its very clear she has BPD from that. I'd be happy for her to present whatever "evidence" she has on me as well, as I have nothing to hide.

I've suffered anxiety and depression but I accept this and am seeking treatment. It doesn't affect my ability to parent either.

You are right about how she sees me now  Its so upsetting that I am viewed that way. I wasn't perfect, but I tried damn hard to please her and give her everything she wanted.

When I first got a lawyer we put forward a 50/50 parental plan. She rejected it and said only supervised visits. My lawyer said exactly what you mentioned. If I was to accept it I might be admitting I need supervision. So it was rejected.

I am confident in my case. It just takes such a long time.

I will probably need help in getting over my ex - I still love her very much and its been hard to let go... .I know I can't love someone who doesn't love me back. Just not sure how one is supposed to move on after 12 years... .

[Vladdy]

Just thought I should update this.

We had mediation on Wednesday and it went well. I went in expecting the worst but she actually agreed to equal custody to my surprise!

She is still holding my "mental issues" over my head so provided I pass psychiatric assessment which  I will, then equal  custody will start immediately after the report clears. Hopefully thats only 3 weeks away.

Until then I get more contact will my children over messenger and video chat every day and sleepovers on weekend. They are actually here at home with tonight. It must have affected the two older ones. 7 weeks since they have been away from their rooms and beds. They really have missed being home.

[takingandsending]

That's great news. Enjoy them. Keep moving forward  to equal custody. If she has no right to demand eval, sounds like it became a condition of equal custody in mediation. Did you let go of requesting she undergo same? I wouldn't. Just wondering

[ForeverDad]

Equal time is great... .until a decision has to be made and your Ex refuses to agree with you.  Then what?  Does your agreement cover that?

Does your local court utilize the concept of Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?  Courts are reluctant to quickly grant one parent full custody, they worry it can tend to shut out the other parent who 'loses' custody.  DM or TB is an alternative that is very much like full custody except not by name.  When there is a lack of agreement, an impasse, it helps to reduce the risk of waiting months for a court, mediator or parenting coordinator to decide whether to say yay or nay.

For example, imagine this scenario, what if you agreed to pay school expenses? You think, why not?  It's standard, right?  It's only a few hundred dollars a year, right?  Well, some 8-10 years ago one member thought so.  But once it was in writing and filed as a court document, his Ex moved their son to a private school.  Yes, you can imagine the tuition was so much more expensive than public school, making it a hardship for him.  He objected and took it to court.  The judge saw no problem.  In the order mother had Decision Making and in the order Father paid school expenses.  The court stated that mother decided and father paid, didn't matter that mother changed from inexpensive public shcool to expensive private school after the order was made, it was father's agreed responsibility to pay, period.

What that father should have written was a 'reasonability' clause such as many parents here use for college tuition issues... .  "Parent X agrees to pay [half; or all] school expenses but limited to the amount that a local public school (or local public college, as applicable) charges.  Parent X does not agree to pay private tuition or out-of-state tuition that is higher than local, generally less expensive, rates."