Circular emails and conversations

[Breathe066]

Awful day.
Awful.
The ex wBPD contacts me saying we can't possibly reconcile. I don't know what to say. I love him and I am heartbroken, so I reply in that vein. He replies that I invalidated him in the first sentence and that I should have just said I can't wait to get ourselves sorted and work things out. He says he can't believe I didn't just say I can't wait to work things out. Fortunately, I don't have the energy to go find a bridge and throw myself off it right now.
It actually appears that, in fact, no matter what I say, it is wrong. Is there ever a right way? The thing I said that invalidated him was "I feel exactly the same way."
Just hit me in the head with a hammer already.

[OptimusRhyme]

That sounds like a pretty rough day/convo. The immediate "you're invalidating me" response really hit home with my memories.

I'm not sure if this will be any help to you right now, but I struggled a lot with trying to find "the right way" to express how much I cared about this person in the hopes of fixing the relationship. All of the things I was used to associating with proper care - empathy, patience, kindness, calmness, offering vulnerability and being emotionally available  - all produced reactions that were the opposite of what I was going for.

It took me a long time, but I realized (I had many moments where I vocalized this thought to friends before I really internally understood it) that cutting her out of the rest of my life is truly the most (and probably only) kind and loving course of action I have. I've had the best year of my life since then, and if she actually did ever care for/love me, then living my life proudly and happily is the best gift I can give her.

Trying to accommodate someone who can't actually define the problem (let alone possible solutions) is an exhausting, futile effort, but he really is doing you a favor by saying you can't reconcile. For once, take him at his word, and focus on you and your own healing, and doing the right thing FOR YOU.

Besides, blunt force cranial trauma is a terrible death.  

[marti644]

Optimus, you're spot on! I came to the conclusion the same way you did. In the weeks running up to my discard she kept saying "I wish you all the best" whenever I talked about my future plans with her.

 I thought it was so weird but was too confused by the chaos of the  devaluation stage to notice what she meant properly. She was already on her way out.

I do take her at her word. And am now building a happy life for myself. The part of her I loved and knew would have wanted me to be happy. I choose to hold onto that memory of her and make myself whole for the first time in my life. She did me a favour by letting me go. It's taken awhile to realize that, and I have alot of processing to do still, but it gets easier every week, even through the waves of despair, unworthiness, and anger.

[Inneedofhelp]

I totally understand the circular talk and high conflict conversations. I am at a point like you that the first sentence out of my mouth, no matter how mundane topic, is instantly met with an angry reaction like you commented, "how insensitive of you/how rude/why couldn't you just say... .". I have taken steps to start our divorce, but we have 2 children and he is being hostile with me so just blocking calls/emails, etc is not an option.

[Breathe066]

OR, Marti, INOH,
Yeah it is confusionland here right now. I feel tired in a way that really transcends any physical fatigue. I was doing okay. Yesterday, I told him, when he asked why the conversation in our marriage dried up accsuing me of being cold and withholding, that it was because I was afraid of his reaction to anything I might say. He responded in angry denigrating terms and for probably the 50th time in a week, I thought "Thank God this guy is gone! Please, please let the divorce be quick!" But today, something weird happened. I thought I was just offering consolation about the end of our relationship, I thought--here's a classic mistake with BPD--we were "on the same page," and so offering support and compassion couldn't go wrong, right? WRONG. As Marti has said, even the most empathetic terms get twisted. (My estranged husband, you know, I think I should give him a fake name for this site. I am going to call him Thad. It's like thuggish, bad and sad all rolled into one and bears no resemblance to his name.) The fact is, I love him. The fact is, there are many things about him that are worthy of love. His abuse of me and basic denial that I even have a soul are not worthy of love and they are not acceptable.
Looking back at our conversation--via email, mind you, so it's all there--I can't figure out how he interpreted my pain and missing him as rejection, then claimed he had made an offer of reconciliation. Looking back, the only offer of reconciliation was in the rejection of my compassion: "I can't believe you wouldn't just say 'I want you back, let's work on ourselves and work on getting back together.' Here I am, my life in ruins, just needing some kind of lifeline and you won't even consider reconciliation." That was his offer of reconciliation.
I am actually crystal clear that I don't want him back. I mean, I suppose that if there were some transformative miracle, I would reconsider, but my life with him has been hell. Yet, he somehow managed with the guilt trip to get me to actually say "I agree that we should work on ourselves and work toward reconciliation." Now I feel both weak and deceptive.
I gave in and said what he wanted because doing so seemed to be what would "save" his life and in doing so I said something of which I am not at all sure. I have huge, terrifying doubts about the prudence of reconciliation. He needs to go to rehab and confront his BPD and I have to come to terms with my codependence. There's a lot of work ahead before even being in the same room together is doable.
I probably shouldn't have caved. From your experience, how much damage have I done to him emotionally? Should I just leave it alone or say I screwed up? I am leaning toward benevolent neglect-just saying nothing. He's usually back on the hate train within 48 hours and in that condition won't be game for getting back together anyway.

[Inneedofhelp]

Don't be so hard on yourself, you are just trying to survive. I realized that I am spending so much time preparing/anticipating for the conflict, trying to figure out my next move, and recovering from abusive interactions. I had something similar happen a few years back when I agreed to try marriage counseling. I know it was discussed with the therapist many times that I was just willing to try but would not agree that it would repair our marriage. After over a year of sessions I realized that it was not helping-his anger and denial was even present there-and he has brought that back so many times. That I should have just left long ago (not really what he means) and not promised to work through and stay married... .but I didn't even say that at all! What we all need to remind ourselves is that this is not our fault, we deserve to be loved in a way that feels good (not abusive) and that this is attachment and a need to control and not be rejected on their side. It's easy to get drawn in (and sometimes it feels like it will help to say those things to avoid the angry irrational statements), but we know from experience that it is always there. We are not alone, but we deserve better.

[OptimusRhyme]

From your experience, how much damage have I done to him emotionally? Should I just leave it alone or say I screwed up? I am leaning toward benevolent neglect-just saying nothing. He's usually back on the hate train within 48 hours and in that condition won't be game for getting back together anyway.

Well, I count my lucky stars that my enmeshment was brief (I guess I'm happy that I don't tolerate bad behavior for long, but man has it skewed me harder than any experience before), so my heart goes out to you for having to deal with a marriage/divorce.

So here's my experience - I can totally commiserate with your concern for him, his wellbeing,  and his emotional fragility. I spent a lot of time in that line of thinking -  confused, neglecting my own emotional state and exhausting myself with concern for hers.

It's like playing chess with someone who's only knowledge of chess is "smash the pieces off the board". As terrifying as it is to accept this, in my experience, you have ZERO agency when it comes to modifying, encouraging, controlling, manipulating, etc his actions. It's one of the most alien and painful things I've ever had to train myself to realize and remember, but there is literally no course of action, thought, or plotting that I could employ to change or help the situation. Walking away, cold turkey, forever, was the only option that gave either of us a chance at happiness. I have no idea if she's made good on that chance (and I never will, my closure is that I have made good on that).

Which brings up another other powerful component of my experience - once I let go of all of my efforts and concerns for and to help her, I discovered just how large my own well of pain and anger was. I slowly realized how badly I had been treated, and that my rationalizations and forgiving of trespasses were self serving. For the first month or two, I'd tell friends the story and still be mainly preoccupied with concern for her and sadness. It took monolithically hearing "Jesus, she treated you like dirt" or "yeah I'm pretty sure she's a compulsive liar, and she has the responsibility of a 12 year old" or "yeah she sounds like a horrendous partner, you dodged a bullet" from everyone I confided in for awhile before I awoke to the depth of my own injuries.

And from there, I now find myself slowly attempting to replace that anger with compassion, acceptance, and I'll be honest, a little pity. I know in my heart of hearts that nobody who's happy treats someone the way I was treated, and it's got to be an unimaginable burden to travel through life the way she does, with the behavioral patterns she repeats. That clashes with my firm sense of personal responsibility, so i vacilate between offended judgment and detached compassion, but it gets easier every day, and the strength I've come out of this with has helped me build one of the best years of my life since.

Be kind to the both of you, and start that process for yourself now. Don't pick up the chess pieces, don't even sit back down at the board. It seems callous and cold, but it's the best chance either of you have.

[earlyL]

 It took monolithically hearing "Jesus, she treated you like dirt" or "yeah I'm pretty sure she's a compulsive liar, and she has the responsibility of a 12 year old" or "yeah she sounds like a horrendous partner, you dodged a bullet" from everyone I confided in for awhile before I awoke to the depth of my own injuries.

 so i vacilate between offended judgment and detached compassion,

I am exactly the same as this. All that time of justifying it and friends were telling me how it really was. It is good to hear that it takes time for others too, I think I have beat myself up about it.

@Breath066 - this is tough, I can really see why you are struggling. When I found out my exBPD had an affair and I begged her to leave so we could get some space (the discard at started) she cried and wept at me, saying she would miss me, and left for New York. When she came back she announced that she had only cried when she left because it was natural to be emotional as she was leaving rather than reflecting her true feelings and apparently I agreed with her. She brought it up later on in an argument, and it was so cold and bizarre. I actually don't remember saying it, I just remember being so confused because she was so distant in her actions and yet she kept telling me she loved me and wanted to be with me. Now I see it was the push and pull and I was mentally going mad with trying to work out what was going on - but to her, i agreed with her. So I agreed the relationship was over. It is so sad to think about, but I do know, and accept that it wouldn't have mattered what I said, I don't think any one line would have saved the relationship and that was what my gut was telling me. It suited her to think that I had ended the relationship to ease her guilt.

[bus boy]

Hi Breathe066, sorry to hear you are in so much pain today. Recovering from a BPD r/s is painful but rewarding in the end, it takes time. My Xw discarded me for good 2 years ago and the pain was horrific, now I can say it's much better but I still have painful moments just not as long or as bad. Last week was pretty rough but I kept plowing. As for talking in circles, that's what they do, or at least, one of the things they do and they do it very well. "Whose on first" is a much less confusing conversation than one with a BPD. My Xw could talk or text circles around circles. I have learned, and it took a long time and many going nowhere conversations, that it is a monumental waste of time and precious energy to try and make sence or talk sence to someone with a personality disorder. Direct your energy back to you.