Hi, so glad to be here

[MaxwellH]

OK, gosh; where do I start? 

Short version:  based on feedback from people who know these things, it became apparent that the woman my son is engaged to (and who is the mother of my first and only grandchild) very probably has BPD.  Before I even knew what this was, things escalated at our home to the point where we felt the need to tell them they needed to leave (the events leading up to that moment could fill a short novel, but let's just suffice it to say that the last straw was her threatening to kill me).

So now, after having read "I Hate You; Don't Leave Me", Rachel Reiland's "Get Me Out of Here" memoir, and just recently "Stop Walking on Eggshells", everything is so much clearer.  If I would have known back then what I know now, I SO would have handled things differently (although sometimes I'm not sure I'm strong enough to have done it well).  But now, 8 months have passed and it appears that my son has also been turned against me and we have been unable to communicate with them or to see our grandchild in all that time.

So here I am, desperate for someone to give me direction as to what to do to bring them back into our lives.  Right now they live in another state and my son's only influence appears to be her family, whose mother also has strong BPD traits and seems to be very happy to have these other grandparents clearly out of their lives.

Exacerbating the issues, the wedding has been scheduled and I'm not even sure they plan to invite us.

I guess it's difficult to really create a "short version" regarding these things, isn't it?  At any rate; here I am.  Happy to have people to talk to about these things, because these problems are consuming me, and while my family and friends tell me to "let it go" and move on, I just can't.

Thanks for listening.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome MaxwellH:   
I'm very sorry to hear about your DIL.  You say she said she wanted to kill you.  That is disturbing.  Was there an argument just before that, or something that made her feel unvalidated?  It's important with someone with BPD to NOT INVALIDATE.   Have you had a conversation with your son, since the day they were asked to leave your home?

Others here have situations very much like yours.  It seems like the DIL's brainwash the sons.  Quite often, the sons lean towards being codependent.  Do you think your son has codependent tendencies? 

So here I am, desperate for someone to give me direction as to what to do to bring them back into our lives.  Right now they live in another state and my son's only influence appears to be her family, whose mother also has strong BPD traits and seems to be very happy to have these other grandparents clearly out of their lives.

Exacerbating the issues, the wedding has been scheduled and I'm not even sure they plan to invite us. 

The harsh reality is that you have to avoid having an opinion that differs from any of their's.  Definitely never argue about anything.  Don't say anything negative to your son about his fiance or his soon-to-be MIL (it might be shared with them).  Be very cautious of Facebook.  If you can't compliment something, just remain silent.  Don't ever have something different to say about anything. 

This lesson on AVOIDING CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS (Don't JADE (Justify, Argue Defend or Explain) should be helpful.

You might want to browse through this collection of  LESSONS.  Something there should draw your interest.

If I would have known back then what I know now, I SO would have handled things differently (although sometimes I'm not sure I'm strong enough to have done it well).

  The various communication skills can take practice, but many times conflict can be avoided or de-escalated by just not saying something that is invalidating or taking the bait and arguing about something.

[Notwendy]

This is a heartbreaking topic. I faced the same dynamics as an adult when my BPD mother was angry at me, and she intervened in my relationship with my father. I was shocked to see that a grown man could be convinced to do this with his own daughter. It was then that I learned from one of his relatives that he did this with his own FOO.

My mother didn't like my father's family and it was mutual. I learned that my grandparents hardly saw us kids when we were little. I felt so sad for them.

I have written this before- and a search of the posts will help you see that this is common, unfortunately. In the moment, your son is in a relatively new relationship, being idealized, and I don't need to mention the physical side. These relationships have an addictive quality. Right now he is on the high. However, in time, the nature of the relationship evolves. How he responds is unknown.

I think middle ground, neutral, non reactive is a good place to be. Push too much, or withdraw, and you are the "bad guy". I would stay in touch from a neutral place- a card, a message- on his phone and to his office if possible- not the home.  For instance a "thinking of you on your birthday" card. Not too much. Enough to let him know you care about him and keep the door open.

As to the grandkids, the long term perspective may help here. Little kids are cute and compliant. Older kids and teens, not so much. As we got older, our mother couldn't really deal with us. We didn't listen, we talked back. She managed when we were in school, but holidays, vacations, something had to be done. That is when my father's family opened their doors to us. These times were wonderful- we got to stay with our cousins, spend time with his family- and we did have a relationship with our grandparents.

Even farther out- the next generation. We are alienated from our mother's FOO. They didn't show much interest in us. However, my own kids are close to their cousins on my father's side.

I hope that there is a chance for you to be more involved in the future. I think the tools here will help. Staying non reactive, and leaving the door open to your son, but not pushing - as the wife will have her say, may make it possible for a relationship with your son and grandkids later.

[DaddyBear77]

Hi MaxwellH, I'm really glad you found this place.

I am writing this as someone who is the son in a very similar dynamic to the one you and your family are in. My wife, my pwBPD, has never been formally diagnosed but exhibits most of the traits associated with BPD and NPD. She has very strong feelings against my parents and brothers. I was able to force the issue of being around my parents even through our wedding, but afterwards things became too strained. There was hope right before my daughter was born, but right before the baby shower something snapped. I was forced to chose and for over 3 years now, including being banned from the baby shower, my parents have seen their granddaughter in person exactly once.

I don't know if your son has siblings, but some of the most powerful things have come from my brother who is 2 years younger than me. He's not afraid to let his feelings be known, and he's called out many things I wouldn't have paid attention to otherwise.

I think Notwendy's and Naughty Nibbler have some great advice, and they have been extremely helpful to me.

I am really sorry for the position you're in, and please keep posting - I think you can find some great help here.

DB