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Portent
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« on: April 15, 2017, 11:26:00 PM »

I feel my first recycle attempt coming on. My soon to be pwBPDexw has been too damn nice. She has been sending nice texts of our son and being friendly. Now she has invited me out for brunch with our son for Easter.

I know that things with my replacement are not going well. He cheated on her a few months ago and she basically picked every single fight she could with me to convince herself that I'm such an ass that I'm even worse than a cheat. Now I hear through the grapevine that he is spending a lot of time with his kids which means he is not spending it with her and he isn't nearly has happy as he was she was love-bombing him. I believe that he is a introverted narcissist. The reason he cheated on her was because she got a DUI with the kids in her car and she had to keep her distance from him for a short while. Since she wasn't able to offer him supply he immediately went out and found it elsewhere actually he was already working on it. His sudden change now and his focus on only his younger kids who still adore him and not his older kids who hate his guts right now would mean that he is seeking supply because my ex cut him off, and not him simply trying to be a good father.

I'm guessing that they are breaking apart and she is looking to see if there is a chance for a recycle. And honestly I dont know what to do. I'm still trying to keep my promise to save her. Its a bad time for me because her "replacement" and I are taking a little break. So this is probably the worst time. I don't believe in psychic powers but honestly we are pretty much no contact so how the hell does she know. She doesn't even know that I had found someone else. Much less that we are taking a break.

I really dont know how I will react if she tries to recycle me. I tell myself that without a commitment to therapy no way what so ever but deep down I want my son to have his family. That is just my personality type and its always hard to fight.
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2017, 12:18:14 AM »

This is tough,  Portent. I've been dealing with something similar for maybe a year.  I just got a text, she asking me if I wanted to do breakfast before church.  It's her custody weekend,  and I was also invited a week ago to go to the Ex-laws for an Easter BBQ.

These things are painful,  especially when infidelity is involved; with kids even moreso. If there are lingering feelings,  this makes it so much harder. I've dealt with the kids (S7 and D4) telegraphing mommy and daddy being together, despite after 3 years separation and remarriage on her part.  3.5 years since we slept in the same bed,  yet I still sleep on "my side."  

However, I witnessed how she treated her new guy, so I know she's changed little,  even if I've been split white.  

Recycles take two. I did it once before our son when I should have left,  yet here I am.  

Desiring the family unit is normal, yet that is another thing seperate from the r/s between two. What are your feelings here?

I'm not nearly as angry as I was,  yet I still resent that my kids aren't in my home tonight.  However, I'm also glad,  despite the lingering sadness,  that I have my time with them free from disorder and stress.
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Portent
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 12:49:05 AM »

My feelings are a hurricane. My cognitive mind knows that BPD is treatable. But it takes a commitment. I almost had her in treatment once but she was given an excuse for paranoia to set in.
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 01:00:58 AM »

My ex recently through the bait into the water for a potential recycle as well... .and then quickly pulled it back out. I wish I hadn't taken the bait to the extent that I did, and just stayed with the friendly relations part of it and when she asked directly had said something like... ."that was a tough road for us, let's just stick to the road we're on and see if it turns out better."
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 01:01:51 AM »

(but it is so darn hard in the moment, especially when she was saying the things that I'd hoped she say... .e.g. that she thinks of me a lot, etc).
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 02:31:12 AM »

You guys are doing same mistake over and over and then at one moment you will realize that years have gone, but you are still here licking your fresh new wounds next to old scars. I know its hard, but going back again and again will only destroy you. I know that with kids its harder. I dont have my own kids, but my ex-s kids got very dear to me and it hurts me a lot that i cant see them. And who knows what lies have been told to them about me. Whatever i have tried to do has only resulted this that people see me as a psycho.
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 03:26:00 AM »

You guys are doing same mistake over and over and then at one moment you will realize that years have gone, but you are still here licking your fresh new wounds next to old scars. I know its hard, but going back again and again will only destroy you. I know that with kids its harder. I dont have my own kids, but my ex-s kids got very dear to me and it hurts me a lot that i cant see them. And who knows what lies have been told to them about me. Whatever i have tried to do has only resulted this that people see me as a psycho.

You got to understand she me swear that I would save her when she lost her mind. I grew up hearing from others how much my mother amd father loved each other before I was born. I dont want that for my son snd I would sell my soul if it meant giving him the family I didnt have.

I would agree to live in hell for all eternity if the reward was to deny him the memory of a love he never got to see.
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2017, 03:37:11 AM »

You cant save her, only she can save herself. But i think you have already made your mind and maybe you need to do this recycle again. I still see no good coming from that. I did one recycle in my relationship and that time was basically used for searching new "love"
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Portent
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 03:46:22 AM »

You cant save her, only she can save herself. But i think you have already made your mind and maybe you need to do this recycle again. I still see no good coming from that. I did one recycle in my relationship and that time was basically used for searching new "love"

Im well aware but you dont have a kid. You may or may not have grown up in a broken home. Butyou don't know how much you desire youe children to have what you did not. What you are willing to give up or endure for them.
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 03:59:26 AM »

Im well aware but you dont have a kid. You may or may not have grown up in a broken home. But you don't know how much you desire youe children to have what you did not. What you are willing to give up or endure for them.

Portent,

I am so sorry your going through this. I do not have kids with my BPD-ex but I can only imagine how hard this must be for you.

But I would advise you to maybe re-adjust your thinking abit. It seems like your expectations are very high and that you are setting out to "save her". happendtome is right, only she can save herself, you can't make that choice for her. Change is something that people choose on the inside, not the outside, as much as we would like to be able to help others it is not always possible; especially with BPD.

I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family (it still is) with NPD/BPD/kitchen sink. There was no saving the dysfunctional patterns of my parents, no matter how hard I tried as a grew up with my co-dependency issues and rescuer mentality.

Maybe you need more therapy and and to set boundaries to make yourself strong for your son before you can even think about re-engaging with her?

Give yourself time to be able to think clearly before making a decision. I wish my parents had taken the time to think before they acted when I was a kid. The truth is they should have divorced long before they did and all their push/pull patterns merely did was prolong the inevitable and damage their children emotionally. Their impulsivity created scars that me and my siblings have to deal with to this day.

Self-awareness of our patterns as adults is key. Self-reflect on yourself as much as you can before you think about the idealized version of what your family should be. My parents fantasy crumbled into nothing because all the words in the world couldn't help them escape from their actions.
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 04:02:03 AM »

 Im no fool there is no us without therapy. I will not agree to any reconciliation without a proven commitment to her in therapy.
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 05:08:22 AM »

Im no fool there is no us without therapy. I will not agree to any reconciliation without a proven commitment to her in therapy.

That's great. It sounds like she has to come up with a pretty serious change for you to accomplish a reconciliation. Hopefully she does it for your son and for you. You have strong boundaries and that is the most important first step to healing (for you first).

What are you working on to deal with your own baggage? Have you though about what may be flawed about the 'idealized version' of your family you want to have and the path to getting there? Coming to grips with the realities of my own families dysfunctions and lowering my expectations for the type of relationships I would have with family has helped me develop a greater grasp of what I am capable of and the way forward to a better life.
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 05:34:12 AM »

You want to save her? She's not your wife anymore.  I would hope that your son wasn't in that car when she got a DUI. I would do the opposite of save her if that is the case.

You want a family for your son? Find a new woman. One that doesn't need saving or drive drunk putting children's lives on the line. Your ex is with another man that your taking a break fromand who's spending time with his "real" family.  Now she needs a warm body to replace him. He comes back into the picture and you think she'll leave him, go to therapy?

Keep your son safe and healthy and stay away from that non sense. DUI with kids in the car makes me sick.
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 05:55:50 AM »

I remember, i had all the excuses for my ex after she dumped me. I became exactly that white knight, wanting to save my exBPD from my replacement who was/is total BPD/NPD. One of my friends, who had bad experiences with my ex, stopped even talking to me. He got tired and he didnt see any reason why i should protect her. But I totally forgot why we broke up at first place and kept seeing her only as a victim, but the truth is, so sad as it is, she really never cared about me. I was only her supply. That is the saddest part, its not about her, its about me, i have believed and lived in disneyland
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 07:58:47 AM »

I don't believe in psychic powers but honestly we are pretty much no contact so how the hell does she know.

You said that she didn't know you were dating. What makes you think the knows that you broke up ?

This reads like a married women having a fling with a married man and his wife and kids are now fighting to get their father/dad back and she is getting the stink-eye from the family and uncertainty from him. That puts everything in play - it can't be fun for anyone.

The fact that she is sending feelers out to you is more likely about her looking for some support with her current situation and/or some validation of character. This is human nature. When people are in seemingly unsolvable conflict, they reach out to a third person. This is triangulation. It's a perfectly normal response.

Many members have over-reacted to these feelers, gotten too far over their skis (so to speak) and gotten their hands bitten. She is not looking for disapproval form you right now (e.g., you cheated, you're mentally ill) - and won't go down well.

See things for what they are. Work with that.

I really dont know how I will react if she tries to recycle me. I tell myself that without a commitment to therapy no way what so ever but deep down I want my son to have his family. That is just my personality type and its always hard to fight.

You're still married and there has been infidelity in the relationship. Most people in your place would be in the same place you are - mixed emotions - mixed, strong emotions.

Can this situation be recovered? People certainly have recovered from infidelity. Doing so, however is hard. Many of the instinctual things we do aren't helpful. I wouldn't go with your gut... .I'd look at infidelity recovery material and talk to members about that.

What is the biggest initial risk? Reading too much into the situation and/or trying to avenge or litigate the infidelity will push her away.

Another risk is being a rebound or safety net -  and being rejected again when she gets back on her "feet".

What is a measured response? If you really want to reconcile or explore reconciliation, be a friend and listen to her when (if) she reaches out. You will hear some hurtful things, but you will also hear what she is feeling. If you don't push your needs, you will get sense of where she really is. It it progresses over time this will give you the best ability to differentiate a rebound from a desire to resolve the infidelity.

Has a divorce been filed? What stage are you in?

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Portent
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 01:04:37 PM »

You said that she didn't know you were dating. What makes you think the knows that you broke up ?

Its just that I've read so many people on this forum saying that its like thier wpBPDex just knows when you are most likely to recycle even if they are having no contact. I really kind of laughed at it and here we are. I have a talk with my current relationship and we decide to have some space I get home and bam there is the text form my ex.

Excerpt
This reads like a married women having a fling with a married man and his wife and kids are now fighting to get their father/dad back and she is getting the stink-eye from the family and uncertainty from him. That puts everything in play - it can't be fun for anyone.

Its deeper than that. She is seriously disordered. This guy was her plan B. She had another guy on the hook who was the one she really wanted. When she left her last husband for an affair and got dumped the only lesson she seemed to learn is to have two guys on the hook rather than one.

Excerpt
The fact that she is sending feelers out to you is more likely about her looking for some support with her current situation and/or some validation of character. This is human nature. When people are in seemingly unsolvable conflict, they reach out to a third person. This is triangulation. It's a perfectly normal response.

Many members have over-reacted to these feelers, gotten too far over their skis (so to speak) and gotten their hands bitten. She is not looking for disapproval form you right now (e.g., you cheated, you're mentally ill) - and won't go down well.

Well I know she did try and recycle her last husband and he told her no. So I'm expecting it to come.

Excerpt
Has a divorce been filed? What stage are you in?

Papers filed court date in two weeks. We require a one month cooling off period in this state. She has told me in the past, during our separation, that had I not come into her life she couldn't have gone through with her last divorce. If she doesn't have a replacement anymore I would expect her to make some effort to call it off.

She basically was trying to recycle her ex. I came into her life and it took about a month of us together for her to be confident enough that she had me locked up to file papers. She had told me when we started dating that she was just divorced. Then she later admitted that she had filed papers but not had a court date. But as part of our dissolution she had to list the date of her last dissolution. With the one month cooling off period it was clear that she had filed the papers a month after we were dating and intimate.
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 04:22:44 PM »

Hi Portent.  As another adult who grew up in a very messed up family and as a result has some very dysfunctional behaviors of my own to deal with, I want to comment on the following.

Excerpt
I tell myself that without a commitment to therapy no way what so ever but deep down I want my son to have his family. That is just my personality type and its always hard to fight.

I am not BPD but I have been diagnosed with c-PTSD which, in my mind, is not a whole lot different.  It takes commitment, drive and the ability to accept responsibility for myself regardless of how I came to be the way I am.  Do you think your wife is capable of that sort of introspection?  On top of dealing with a drinking problem and very risky behaviors that don't only involve herself but defenseless kids as well?  Are you up to the challenge of standing firm, putting your kids needs and safety first in addition to being a husband and support to a person with very dysfunctional behavior and addiction on top of that... .all on top of supporting your family financially and maintaining your own sanity? 

I do not know you or your story well enough so I have no opinion on these things.  I just want remind you that a commitment to therapy in no way means recovery or even improvement. 

In general, it is my inexpert opinion that it is best to maintain the separation or even continue with divorce and then, after she demonstrates years of not just commitment to T but also solid changes in behavior should  you even consider getting back together (btw, I have a quirk where I know my opinion may mean squat but I express it anyway.  Take what fits and leave the rest!  )

The other thing I want to comment on is where you said that it is important to you that your son has a family.  How much of that desire is based on your needs as a kid?  My parents stayed together for my brother and I and quite honestly I have no respect or gratitude for that decision.  Both were mentally ill (my mother severely so) and neither was in therapy.  That desire to stay together for the kids and provide them with an intact family was based on their needs and wants and had nothing to do with what was best for my brother and I.  They could not even see us... .and yet reminded us that they were staying in a dysfunctional and very difficult situation for us... .they had no clue what was best for us and they never even bothered to try to see beyond their own needs and beliefs about what is best.

Portent, I wish you the very best as you work through this.  I will end this by saying that the promise you made to save her may involve setting her free to deal with things on her own.

 

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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM »

 Portent,

One of our most senior members here (over a decade on the site) likes to quote,  

It's often better for kids to come from broken homes than to live in them

I get what is being said, and have had 3.5 years here to ponder it.  I get it,  though I don't fully accept it.  The kids and the white picket fence with a supportive and stable partner was the ideal.  I didn't pull that trigger until my mid 30s. I had, whom I later found out,  was a BPD mother.  I never had a father except as a baby which I don't remember.  

What gives me strength is realizing that I can be my own version of a parent and a father without walking on eggshells. I was hurt and angry,  very angry,  even more so than by the cheating, when I viewed my kids taken from me half the time.  It was especially triggering since ihad taken up the parenting slack for the better part of a year,  and for the last 5 months while she was leading a double life while living in our home.  :)4 didn't even really attach to her until her second year,  which seemed backwards for a baby.

It took about two years for me to accept the reality of my new situation.  

With you,  this is very recent,  and the kids are older than mine were.  This, to me, seems tougher to deal with.  Letting go of a dream is hard.  :)ealing with kids who still want mommy and daddy back together is also hard.  :)4 asked mommy to do a sleep over two weeks ago when their mom dropped stuff by the house late on a Friday night.  Getting through these stages is very tough.  People told me that when I first came here.  I got it logically,  but emotionally it took my own time to deal with.  Anxiety,  even depression are normal. Seeing my kids' confusion and pain was the worst,  but I sought help.  This isn't anything anyone should have to deal with alone.  

The first rule of first responders is,  "don't become a victim yourself." I focused upon my kids,  and still do.  I can't fail them.
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