Housecleaning woes

[Depression = 72% of members]

Yesterday when I got home, the house was trashed.  In fact, I had a hard time opening the door because I had to push stuff out of the way that was in front of it to get inside. When I got in, he was on the couch watching Tv with the baby, he and the baby both said hi, and our oldest was asleep in the chair.  I went over and sat down next to them and tried to stay optimistic despite the fact that the living room was a wreck, with things all over the floor and counters.   He told me after getting back from the doctor they all passed out and nothing got done for the day.  Of note, he had said he was going to wet vac the floor on Friday which didn't happen.  That in itself while a disappointment, was not as bad as the condition of the house.  The kitchen was not much better, it was better than some days but it was messy as well. It looked like all plates and dishes from the day were just piled up on the counter. I picked up the baby and went back to the master bedroom because at least I had picked up my side of the room and it was in relatively orderly shape.  The mess was really bothering me, and I felt very stressed out from it.  He did get up and make me dinner which was very nice, some grilled romaine.  He was in a decent mood, but did say that the kids were overwhelming especially the baby.  I very quickly gathered she was sick, she was warm, and he said she would not take any medicine.  I found some and gave it to her despite a lot of crying, and then gave her some chocolate which she seemed to really like.  I eventually got her to sleep though it was not easy, and she woke up multiple times throughout the night unhappy.

I got up early to get ready for work, and again was stepping over things laying all over the floor and clutter and it really stressed me out.  I'm at work now, and I've felt very upset and depressed all day.  It feels like I am stuck always living in a pigsty if I stay with him.  Part of me also wonders, why can't he get stuff done when he's not working?  It's been nearly 3 months hes been unemployed, why are there still so many basic tasks he hasn't done, like put away his beer making supplies, cleaning up the laundry room, picking up all the mess outside and organizing.  There is always an excuse like his back hurts, he's sick, the kids were really needy, he was really busy, he was really tired, and so on.  There have been a few days where he has been productive but they seem really few and far between. 

When I try and bring this kind of thing up he usually tells me that it's as much my mess as his, and that it's not fair for me to expect him to pick it up during the day while I'm gone.  And I'm not getting upset over a jacket on a chair and a few socks on the floor, I have to carefully step around things on the floor to leave the house to get to work. 

I find myself feeling really depressed and down, not wanting to do anything.  Things I usually enjoy I have a hard time motivating to do at all.  I'm not doing well.  Is it fair for me to blame it on him?  Would everything be better if I just moved out?  Cause that option wouldn't be easy either.  How do I get a clean and peaceful space to come home from work to or wake up in the morning to?  How do I make that an enforceable boundary? 

And I havn't even gotten started on the typical borderline stuff, .  Do any of you have this chronic issue with your spouse trashing the house?  I need some advice.

[Cheetah1]

Yesterday when I got home, the house was trashed.  In fact, I had a hard time opening the door because I had to push stuff out of the way that was in front of it to get inside. When I got in, he was on the couch watching Tv with the baby, he and the baby both said hi, and our oldest was asleep in the chair.  I went over and sat down next to them and tried to stay optimistic despite the fact that the living room was a wreck, with things all over the floor and counters.   He told me after getting back from the doctor they all passed out and nothing got done for the day.  Of note, he had said he was going to wet vac the floor on Friday which didn't happen.  That in itself while a disappointment, was not as bad as the condition of the house.  The kitchen was not much better, it was better than some days but it was messy as well. It looked like all plates and dishes from the day were just piled up on the counter. I picked up the baby and went back to the master bedroom because at least I had picked up my side of the room and it was in relatively orderly shape.  The mess was really bothering me, and I felt very stressed out from it.  He did get up and make me dinner which was very nice, some grilled romaine.  He was in a decent mood, but did say that the kids were overwhelming especially the baby.  I very quickly gathered she was sick, she was warm, and he said she would not take any medicine.  I found some and gave it to her despite a lot of crying, and then gave her some chocolate which she seemed to really like.  I eventually got her to sleep though it was not easy, and she woke up multiple times throughout the night unhappy.

I got up early to get ready for work, and again was stepping over things laying all over the floor and clutter and it really stressed me out.  I'm at work now, and I've felt very upset and depressed all day.  It feels like I am stuck always living in a pigsty if I stay with him.  Part of me also wonders, why can't he get stuff done when he's not working?  It's been nearly 3 months hes been unemployed, why are there still so many basic tasks he hasn't done, like put away his beer making supplies, cleaning up the laundry room, picking up all the mess outside and organizing.  There is always an excuse like his back hurts, he's sick, the kids were really needy, he was really busy, he was really tired, and so on.  There have been a few days where he has been productive but they seem really few and far between. 

When I try and bring this kind of thing up he usually tells me that it's as much my mess as his, and that it's not fair for me to expect him to pick it up during the day while I'm gone.  And I'm not getting upset over a jacket on a chair and a few socks on the floor, I have to carefully step around things on the floor to leave the house to get to work. 

I find myself feeling really depressed and down, not wanting to do anything.  Things I usually enjoy I have a hard time motivating to do at all.  I'm not doing well.  Is it fair for me to blame it on him?  Would everything be better if I just moved out?  Cause that option wouldn't be easy either.  How do I get a clean and peaceful space to come home from work to or wake up in the morning to?  How do I make that an enforceable boundary? 

And I havn't even gotten started on the typical borderline stuff, .  Do any of you have this chronic issue with your spouse trashing the house?  I need some advice.

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[once removed]

hi Cheetah1,

i can really hear your frustration, and it sounds like this environment is having a detrimental effect on you, and its piling up. i think thats natural, a reasonably clean environment is good for the body and the mind.

it must get overwhelming. im wondering what you are doing for self care when you are able. are you seeing a therapist yourself?

[leggomyeggshell]

Without knowing the other issues, having kids and being a stay at home caregiver is really hard and it's not 100% his fault that the place isn't immaculate when you come in.  If you are gone all day that's one less person there is to clean and if he's not naturally a clean person then what do you expect... .  one kid can make a huge mess in 5 minutes that one parent cannot even keep up with.  Just yesterday I was still cleaning up a puzzle she hadn't put away and my toddler was already two messes ahead of me and asking for the next activity... . 

[Tattered Heart]

I'm sorry you are so stressed by what is going on in the home. One of thing with people with BPD is that they have poor executive control. This means they often have the ability to plan out cleaning schedules. To them, they may not even see the mess. He may see the mess and then get overwhelmed by the enormity of it so he doesn't try. For men having work in an important part of feeling important and worthy. Could he also be depressed from being unemployed?

It may be time to have a conversation with him about the condition of the house. The important thing is to validate him, but also to express how the mess is affecting you.

You could start by validating that you see him taking care of the kids and trying to help with the house. Validate that some of the mess is yours and that you will be pick up your things around the house. Then share with him that when you come home from work and see a mess around the house that it causes you to feel stressed because you want to be able to come home and relax with him and the family, but you feel like you have to clean up instead. Start small. Ask him if he could at least pick up the items on the floor or straighten up clutter  (or whatever mess is causing you the most stress). Maybe ask if there is anything you can do to help him in this area.

Another thing my H and I do when I get overwhelmed by his messes and clutter is initiate a fun 5 minute hot spot or a 15 min cleaning spree. I set a timer for 5 or 15 min and we each choose a messy area clean it. If he hem haws about it, I emphasize that it's only 5 min. By doing this he sees me working also AND since he cleans only one area the amount of cleaning is more focused so he doesn't get overwhelmed by the whole mess, just a little pile of mess. When the time is up he is able to physically see what a difference of only a very short amount of cleaning time can get done. Often, he continues cleaning after the timer goes off because he is now motivated to clean.

[isilme]

He may see the mess and then get overwhelmed by the enormity of it so he doesn't try

This is H.  He hates messes, his mom is a hoarder and he has cleaned up after her in multiple homes - she feels that as long as there is a one-foot path not obscured by piles of stuff, the house if fine.  He DOES have poor executive control and cannot manage time well many days.  His cleaning have never been a day-to-day small cleaning to prevent a big huge effort being needed - his model, learned from his mom, was you let it go until something gets ruined or broken or a repairman is coming, and then you spend hours and hours making up for lost time.

But left alone to clean, he shuts down and can't do it.  He finally admitted this in March - we had a day off work, and he wanted to get rid of clothes too big for him from losing weight.  He has so many clothes that are too big, that fit, and are too small, because in his mind you hold on to them "just in case" your weight changes.  He thinks he's saving money by not buying new clothes when his body changes, but we buy them anyway because he can't find anything that fits under all the clothes that don't.

So he agreed to clean out his closet, and I was going to go outside and take care of some stuff since the weather was good.  He got quiet, and almost got frustrated, so I stopped, and asked, "do you want me to stay in here?  I'm not sure how I can help, and I prefer to be alone when I am seeing if clothes fit - I figured you would like privacy."  He admitted he cannot clean things away without me being in the room - it was too hard to do.  So I stayed, and he filled up to laundry baskets of clothes he could bear to part with.  Progress.  It's taken us 21 years to get here, though.

H used to be at home all day.  I worked.  He'd not start cleaning until I got home, in which case, THEN he'd take out the trash, wipes some stuff, and even vacuum fur (we have cats) off the sofas.  It was a big source of frustration for me for a long time and caused fights until I made peace with a few things myself.

1.  My needs for cleanliness are different than his.  I want it relatively clean all the time - he mostly worries about company coming or if things are in his way.  He's fine washing a dish as he needs them.  I want them washed and put away for when I need them.  All couples have degrees of one being tidier than the other.  I think you know how this stands in your relationship.    I accepted I have a higher need for clean than H does, and with that comes a higher share of the work.  If I want dishes done, and it makes me calm for themt o be done, I do them.  If I need trash taken out, I do it. 

2. If I lived alone - I'd do the same number of chores.  There would be fewer dishes, towels, and the trash may fill up less often, but that's it.  I'd do laundry, sweep and mop, dishes, grocery shopping, mow the lawn, weed eat, trash, pet care, home maintenance, with or without him.  It's nice when he DOES take some initiative and do at least one chore.  Honestly, when I am in my "mode" cleaning, he can get in my way trying to help, so I encourage him to do other things if I am cleaning for guests (prep for entertainment, stay in living room and "clean" in there by putting movies in order, etc.)

3.  It's okay for things to be messy to a point.  My bedroom gets the least amount of attention as a non-public space.  It's clean - but my laundry is not folded.  It's sitting on top of the basket, waiting to be put away.  Dishes can sit by the sink for a day or two if I am tired, sick, or just plain busy.  Things can pile up on the dining table for a few days, as long as I (and sometimes he) clear them off periodically to avoid having a huge pile of junk mail and odds and ends.

How old are the kids?  Can they learn to be responsible for things like toys and their own trash?  Can you make a "chore chart" for them (put your H ont here, too), to help them manage better?  I know hainvg a messy home is stressful - it makes me feel anxious whent things hit a certain level of mess.  But you would need baby steps to get your whole household to help out.  It's not impossible, but it will take time to rewire everyone, including you, about wha'ts okay and what's not.