Not sure I like changing to accommodate pwBPD.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Don't get me wrong, doing all of the techniques to minimize conflict and set boundaries has made things a lot more bearable. Having the pwBPD soothe themselves works. But... .

I feel like I don't care anymore. There isn't the closeness. I'm less personally invested in how they feel. They blow up, I walk away. I'm so used to trying to help that I feel a bit selfish and self-centered. (I mean even more than I used too.  )

How do you stay healthy without turning into a jerk?

[DearHusband]

Don't get me wrong, doing all of the techniques to minimize conflict and set boundaries has made things a lot more bearable. Having the pwBPD soothe themselves works. But... .

I feel like I don't care anymore. There isn't the closeness. I'm less personally invested in how they feel. They blow up, I walk away. I'm so used to trying to help that I feel a bit selfish and self-centered. (I mean even more than I used too.  )

How do you stay healthy without turning into a jerk?

[Red5]

@DearHusband, I am where you are now, and I have been here many times already. I had decided several times, in the last few years to finally call it, and file for divorce, but each time, something brought me back into the cycle... .the last time, she was right there with me, she even said, I cannot live like this anymore... .and I thought to myself, why do you feel this way, you are the one who keeps pushing me away, keeps assailing me, keeps imposing your "dysregulation" upon me... .boy I tell you, she has really drug me through the broken glass, for quite a few years now... .but somehow, someway, I find that last bit of energy to try and stay with it... .I remember many nights, just sitting on the back porch, and she has a snoot or two full of wine, and she just goes on and on and on at me... .and there was a time that I would have had enough, and I would blow up at her, .the wrong thing to do, as this only escalated the conflagration... .nowadays, I say nothing, or I just leave.

What else that is helpful, and this has been mentioned by others here, @Notwendy  and @BeagleGirl... is to have a place you can go that is "yours"... .whatever that may be, a friends home, the back yard shed, the garage, .a space you can go and escape to... .to get away, .and you are correct, you have to stay healthy, and you have to not give over to her anger, if you do, it will only make you a bigger target, and that is going nowhere fast... .this is a long hard row to hoe, as they say, .you have to have a release somewhere, someplace... .and most times you will find that your s/o, either dw/BPD, or else udw/BPD, is not going to be there for you... .this is the bad part, the "catch-22"... .most times "we" become caretakers, more than husbands, best friends, even lovers to these women... .it ain't easy, and I guess we all have our thresholds, and once this is breached, it may decided that you have to leave, for your own good, and having many years together, and a home, kids, and so forth and so on, will make you think twice about leaving, so then you at that point find some strength to stick it out, until the next time you reach that "threshold'... .coping mechanisms, very important, and seems just when you get one behavior figured out, she will come up (exhibit) with a whole new one... .its tiring beyond belief, believe me I know !, .and very taxing on your own "psychology" for sure... .you are in good company here, hang in there, and find your way through... .

[Notwendy]

I don't see the purpose of change as being to accommodate the pwBPD. In fact, WOE, appeasing, accommodating is what we have been doing in order to avoid conflict and to not be a jerk. The problem with that is that we are being jerks- to ourselves by doing so.

Changing was to accommodate me- the authentic me- have enough courage to not be so appeasing and accommodating to others and not considering myself.

The communication skills to deal with conflict are skills. Skill are good tools to have in many situations. The person who learns the skills benefits- as then we have better relationship skills.

What I needed to do was to take the focus off pleasing other people and more on my own personal growth. I think if we look at it this way, it makes the effort worth it. If we gain skills that help our relationship- they help in all relationships ( romantic or otherwise). If the relationship does end--- we still have the skills.

I don't deliberately act like a jerk, but sometimes if someone else isn't happy with my not being appeasing and thinks I am a jerk, then I need to be OK with the fact that others can think what they want. To not be a jerk, I need to be aware of my own values.  The idea- treat others the way you wish to be treated is a good guide. I would want others to be honest with me- say what they mean, even if it is no sometimes and sometimes yes. I can determine if I am being a jerk or not.

[DearHusband]

BPD Wife is sad. She's telling me how sad she is and how it's all my fault. I threw here into this state and I don't do enough to help her when she's struggling. Also, I'm not working enough on improving myself. She's also stressed about all that she has to do, but doesn't want any help from me if she has to suggest it. She wants me to come up with ways on my own and proactively do them. It's not enough that I ask how I can help.

She's tromping around the house, sighing deeply. I'm pretty sure she's looking for a reaction. And like always, I don't give her one. Because she links her feelings to me, I have a hard time validating them. Doing so would be tantamount to admitting that I'm the cause of everything. And I know that's not true.

But, if I were in a relationship with someone else, I would want to comfort them when they were feeling down. That I don't want to comfort her makes me feel like a bit of a jerk. I know part of it is that she's being melodramatic and critical of me but I worry about getting to the point where I don't care about anyone else's feelings. Because, I've pretty much stopped caring about hers as they are always about how bad a person I am. And I'm tired of hearing it.

[ortac77]

Whilst I agree with notwendy that any change is about us and for us - it is actually a long and difficult process. This process does require detaching, emotionally and sometimes physically, from the hurtful and critical comments and a recognition that our people pleasing does us much harm and doesn't ultimately help our pwBPD.

I don't feel a 'jerk' when I detach, but I do feel sad - however as time goes on I realise it is never my place to make somebody else happy and all I have ever done by rescuing is 'paper over the cracks'. I find now that it is actually difficult to know who is the authentic me but I am willing to make the journey to find out.

Recovery takes timed it is certainly not always comfortable, part of me wants to to sooth my partners distress but of course that will not work and saying yes when I need to say no (for me) will only cause more damage to both of us.

[Notwendy]

Yes, it is a long process and it takes a lot of work. It isn't easy to not feel responsible for someone else's feelings, but allowing someone to learn to self soothe is an act of kindness. If we constantly do this for them, we are actually not helping them because as long as we do this, they may not learn.

This is a concept used in parenting. Children need to learn to self soothe. The idea of letting a child cry themselves to sleep is just that. It is hard on parents- they want to go pick up the child, but in the long run, if they do, the child doesn't learn to go to sleep on their own. It's also the concept used in not giving in to a temper tantrum. If we do- the child will continue to tantrum instead of learning that tantrums don't work.

It is not about being cruel and not comforting. If a child comes home from school crying because another child said something mean on the playground, of course, we hug and comfort the child. Then help him process the situation. We don't say " yes that kid is a jerk" but we say " I see that this person hurt your feelings, do you want to talk about it?"

We certainly protect people we care about from serious consequences, but if a child does something like forget to bring homework or a lunch to school, the best lesson is to let that child face the teacher, figure out how to get lunch- borrow money from a friend and pay the friend back, or ask to share a snack, not run to school with the homework or lunch. If someone we loved were in danger, we would call 911, but if they did something like reckless spending, we should not fix that for them.

We aren't our partners' parents and neither should we be. But constantly fixing their feelings and problems can rob them of learning to do this themselves. That's not being nice to them, or to us. If your partner came home after a bad day at work, or was concerned about something- yes, we would be comforting , empathetic, but still consider letting them come up with a solution- how to speak to the boss, or the friend. If the partner blames us for their feelings, and we don't have something to apologize for, we can not take on the task of fixing that.

[Grey Kitty]

But, if I were in a relationship with someone else, I would want to comfort them when they were feeling down. That I don't want to comfort her makes me feel like a bit of a jerk.

You aren't being a jerk. You are avoiding an impossible or unhealthy situation.

Comforting somebody when they are lashing out at you (even if it is with sullen silence; that is a weapon too!) isn't something you should do, and certainly not often or regularly!

As you said, if you were in a r/s with somebody else, you would be able to safely comfort them, and you would do it. This isn't on you.

[BeagleGirl]

One mantra I have found helpful when I feel like a total jerk (yep, I have the same guilt over not trying hard enough, which pales in comparison to the guilt I feel for not WANTING to try harder) is "Put only our own oxygen mask before assisting others".

I think all of us have been where you are numerous times.  We've found various ways to come back from the brink, only to find ourselves there again.  I also think that we have internal tapes (some of them sound eerily similar to our pwBPD's voice) saying that the inability to make this relationship work is proof that there is something wrong with us.  We live in a FOG that keeps us from clearly seeing our situation.  I also sometimes feel like I've become trapped in a cage of fun house mirrors, where everything about myself is reflected back in a distorted way.  

I had to intentionally separate from my BPD husband to get out of the "fun house".  I tried in-house separation, I took advantage of the ability to travel for business every week, I sought support and coping techniques from books and a counselor.  In those days, I agonized over the fact that all I really wanted was to be away from my husband.  I didn't WANT to fix things anymore.  I just wanted to escape.  Then I'd try to find strength to go on in the idea that IF I love my children, I will stay with their father and do everything in my power to set the example of a loving wife.  IF I am really a Christian, I will love as Christ loved.  IF I am a strong woman, I will be able to carry the extra load.  IF I am a compassionate person, I will care enough for my husband's suffering to put aside my own. IF, IF, IF.

For me, the anti-FOG secret is to find a way to see clearly.  I DO love my children, so I will be the best mother for them that I can be.  Right now, that means not living with their father.  I AM a Christian, and there were times when Christ reprimanded and allowed hard-hearted people to walk away.  He didn't pull his attention away from those who were willing to be in relationship with him so he could go chase after those who weren't.  I AM a strong woman, and standing firm in a storm can take just as much strength as running a marathon.  I AM a compassionate person, and know that it hurts to see anyone suffer, but without "triage" my compassion will be poured into the "dead" at the expense of the wounded.

Boy, I'm on a rambling kick this week.  I hope you find something of use.  If nothing else, know that you are not alone in doubting yourself.  

[Lucky Jim]

Hey DearHusband, I pretended a lot in my marriage to my BPDxW.  Perhaps you have done the same.  In some ways, you sort of have to pretend in a BPD r/s in order to act as if things are OK when you know deep down that they are not.  After my divorce, I resolved that I would strive to be authentic, which is a lot less exhausting!  I would suggest that it may also be a way to stay healthy without becoming a jerk, as Notwendy suggests.  As Nietzsche wrote, "Become who you are."  I like that quote, because it's liberating to be myself.

LuckyJim

[DearHusband]

Thanks All. 

Sometimes I feel like I'm writing an alternative to SWOE called "Just don't give a sh*t  - a guide for dealing with BPD persons."

This morning I was driving my wife an daughter to a school field trip. She took 7 digs at me in 12 minutes. Just looked at her and shrugged it off. Also helped that she started in other people that didn't meet her approval.

Yesterday, my wife asked, "Why have you stayed?" That's a really good question. I don't have a really good answer.

DH

[Notwendy]

I think it is important to be true to ourselves which means we feel what we feel.

Any advice for how to deal with a pwBPD is still voluntary. Each relationship is different even if there are similar dynamics. There isn't a correct way to "feel" and nobody can tell you what you should feel.

If you don't give a ----that is how you are feeling.

Although nobody can tell someone else to stay or leave a relationship, I think that by listening to how we feel over the long run will help with that decision. This, in addition to advice from objective and knowledgeable people- lawyers, counselors, therapists- as needed.

[BrianTx]

@Dearhusband, I can soo relate to what you have been saying.  At times when you feel so beat down and think to yourself that there is no way you can make it through the night or when you feel like there is no way to win, I have been there countless times. 

To everyone that responded, thank you for your suggestions.  Those are really good ideas and I will definitely be making changes in my life to try implement them.

[Grey Kitty]

This morning I was driving my wife an daughter to a school field trip. She took 7 digs at me in 12 minutes. Just looked at her and shrugged it off.

My definition of, making things better doesn't usually include validating her when she attacks you.

Validation is easier and more effective at times when A) she is somewhat receptive, not attacking you, and B) you are not feeling so much resentment.

When you are being attacked, your best tools are to avoid JADEing or other invalidation (what you did), and to remove yourself from the situation.

If she is driving, and you are in the car, you are stuck. Suffer through it... .and see how you can make sure that you aren't in this position in the future.

If you are driving, you have a stronger option. Say "I won't be spoken to that way while I'm driving." and pull over and stop. If she dysregulates at this point, you can get out of the car and start walking... .perhaps to find a bus, subway, cab, uber, or something.

[DearHusband]

  Grey Kitty.

Wasn't sure if you meant that I avoided (JADEing  or other invalidation) or if you meant that I avoided JADEing but that I had invalidated her.

I do feel like sometimes I do invalidate by not going one step further to recognize the pain behind the comments. She's attacking because she's hurting about something.

Today she texted a comment that was really saying, "Hey, I'm feeling insecure and I want you to go out of your way to tell me how much I mean to you." It was masked in the FOG so I ignored it.

Yes, I might train her to stop doing that. But, I feel like the interpretation she's really going to latch onto is that I don't care and she shouldn't count on me for sympathy because I'm heartless. That's a lot easier than changing her behavior.

[Grey Kitty]

I do feel like sometimes I do invalidate by not going one step further to recognize the pain behind the comments. She's attacking because she's hurting about something.

Not JADEing, not invalidating her... .or maybe it happens once in a while, but at least not doing it reactively on autopilot is a huge change, and I think you've got it.

You are correct--validating/addressing the pain beneath her attacks is doing more, and I encourage you to do more for your relationship if you can. Still, failing to do so isn't the same as being invalidating.

What I've found is that I could manage 99.9% of the time to zip my mouth shut before something invalidating came out of it. OTOH, I found that being deeply caring and validating wasn't something I could do all the time. When I'm feeling angry, hurt, or resentful, or perhaps just tired and frustrated, I didn't have what it took to be validating. Other times I was "on my game" and was fantastic at it. Yeah, practice helped, but even with practice, I didn't always have the capacity.

But, I feel like the interpretation she's really going to latch onto is that I don't care and she shouldn't count on me for sympathy because I'm heartless. That's a lot easier than changing her behavior.

Part of having good boundaries to protect yourself is knowing that it will happen occasionally, and you cannot stop it, and shouldn't even try that hard. She will think you are heartless sometimes. She will tell you you are heartless sometimes. Especially when you enforce a boundary to protect yourself from her abuse.

It sometimes helps to remember that those feelings will pass, and with BPD and black and white thinking, when they have passed, it will be as if they never existed. 

[ortac77]

Had a bit of this myself this weekend. As you say Grey Kitty when angry, hurt, resentful or just plain exhausted it is hard to get it right. Yesterday at 5am I was awoken by a cacophony of noise - I knew it was deliberate but did my best to ignore it until I could no longer.

No I didn't have what it took to be validating! So I eventually got embroiled in the BPD world and of course I am now exactly in the "I don't care, I don't love, I am cruel and heartless" crap.

It upset me yesterday because yet again I allowed myself to be caught up in the insanity - but was his behaviour abusive - yes and I cannot validate abuse, nor should I.

Actually I honestly do feel a bit cruel and heartless at the moment and need to take time out to validate my feelings.

[Grey Kitty]

ortac77, you aren't the only person who thinks he or she is being cruel, mean, unkind, ___y, or unreasonable, etc. when you stand up for yourself and take care of yourself.

Sometimes you have to do it anyway, despite that feeling. It can get better.