Wife's new reading material

[PeteWitsend]

was reminded of this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308538.0 from Formflier the other day... .

Went into our room and saw a new book by my wife's nightstand.  Something about "how to set and enforce boundaries"... .!

I flipped through a couple pages and its all about what to do when another person is too emotionally demanding of you.  I'm thinking of all those times I got a guilt tripped for asking for some alone time, or on the weekends doing yard work, getting screamed at when 5 pm rolled around because I obviously didnt want to spend time with her that day... .  constantly

And I'm the one with boundary issues... .

It is uncanny how they can project.

[formflier]

I dare you to get a copy and offer to read it together. 

Thank her for improving the r/s and that you BOTH should work together to "protect each other" from emotional storms... etc etc.

Don't mention her as having one... .

   


A few years ago my wife was insistent that we take the "Boundaries" class at church (place we lived at before, not current church).  It was based on Townsend and Cloud's work.

I was reluctant only because of time constraints... .not content.

I loved the class and pushed for more... .wife hated it.   

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Don't borrow trouble... .don't bring a subject like that up!

That said, I can totally understand why she would be reaching for that. I've read quite a bit about abusive behavior, and seen some myself, and there's a really interesting thing going on inside the abuser's mind.

It isn't them thinking "How can I be evil and abusive today?"

Instead, it seems to go like this:

They are genuinely hurting. This is 100% real.

They blame you for feeling hurt. 99.9% of the time, you didn't do anything intending to hurt them. Some of the time, they were hurt by your actions. Other times, your actions weren't even involved in their hurt at all. But none of this matters--they honestly believe that you are responsible for their pain.

Then they do something to stop you from causing that pain. This action is the point where things become abusive... .but they don't see it as such; they see it as an appropriate response. They really believe it.

Anyhow, it isn't a particularly fun process for them either, so seeking a 'better' solution makes perfect sense, considering the situation.

... .but you aren't going to be able to explain this to them in any productive way, so don't go there and don't try to start this conversation with them!

[Lucky Jim]

They are genuinely hurting. This is 100% real.

They blame you for feeling hurt. 99.9% of the time, you didn't do anything intending to hurt them. Some of the time, they were hurt by your actions. Other times, your actions weren't even involved in their hurt at all. But none of this matters--they honestly believe that you are responsible for their pain.

Then they do something to stop you from causing that pain. This action is the point where things become abusive... .but they don't see it as such; they see it as an appropriate response. They really believe it.

GK: This summary is really interesting!  Assuming it's true, I have some questions:

Why does the pwBPD believe that the Non is causing his/her pain, when the Non's actions often have nothing to do with it?

How does abusing the Non stop the pain for the pwBPD?  Why does the pwBPD think that abusing the Non is an appropriate response to his/her pain?  Maybe that is the same question in different words.

In this scenario, it seems like the Non gets abused just because the Non is the nearest victim, or something like that?

In other words, the closer the Non gets to the pwBPD, the more the pwBPD blames the Non for causing his/her pain and, therefore, the Non deserves to be abused, at least in the mind of the pwBPD?

It is a paradoxical dynamic, when you look at it in this way.

Thanks,
LuckyJim

[formflier]

Great questions... .like final exam questions.  I'll give it a shot.

Why does the pwBPD believe that the Non is causing his/her pain, when the Non's actions often have nothing to do with it?

Ummm... I think it is better to look at it this way:  They believe the cause of the pain is "external" vice "internal" (and within their control).  Shame, foo influence and lots of other factors have likely trained them to blame others or look outside themselves.  That is their normal

How does abusing the Non stop the pain for the pwBPD?  Why does the pwBPD think that abusing the Non is an appropriate response to his/her pain?  Maybe that is the same question in different words.

Ummm... .I'm going to say it doesn't stop the pain.  However it may provide a temp relief valve or act somewhat as a salve that wears off.  So... .they believe they are fixed... salve wears off... .they now have "totally new pain" and go back to how it was fixed before.  As long as this fix works they will keep going to this  Why change something that works.  Especially when it's not your fault... .all you have to do is "put up" with this schmuck who is causing your pain.

It's appropriate because it works.  Emotion of the moment overshadows or is more powerful (in many cases) than morality.  Ends justifies means.  Plus... ."think" is likely the wrong word.  I don't believe this is a deliberate "I'm going to be abusive"... thoughtful decision.

In this scenario, it seems like the Non gets abused just because the Non is the nearest victim, or something like that?

If you change this to "nearest intimate victim" then I think you may have something.

There has to be intimacy, because then the pwBPD understands how to push buttons.  Think about this... .a pwBPD walks up to a stranger and accuses them of having an out of wedlock baby with someone.  The stranger flips the bird and walks away.  The pwBPD feels like an azz and "gets nothing from it".

A pwBPD walks up to their intimate partner and says "you had an out of wedlock baby with that woman we met today in McDonalds."  The non "reacts" and tries to prove himself innocent.  And the back and forth goes on for hours.

pwBPD gets a "dysfunction need" met from this.

Again... use some RA.  This is their normal.  Being "healthy" is as strange to them as the abusive stuff seems to us.


FF

[Grey Kitty]

Why does the pwBPD believe that the Non is causing his/her pain, when the Non's actions often have nothing to do with it?

Reality (as I understand it) is that my feelings are my own, and I'm responsible for them, and often may not even know exactly what the source of them is. Believing this isn't too hard. Living this is REALLY hard. It is really easy to look for somebody or something external to blame for your feelings. pwBPD don't get this/fail at owning their own feelings, and do this a lot.

Non's do it too, just not as often, and we are more likely to recover, or recover sooner from it. (I learned some of this through Buddhist meditation, reading, and practice)

How does abusing the Non stop the pain for the pwBPD?

The cope with their original feeling (sadness or hurt, perhaps) by blaming somebody, and now they feel anger (directed at somebody else usually). So the anger is 'protecting' them from the hurt.

Humans are VERY good at avoiding feelings we don't like by seeking other things/feelings which will distract them. Drugs/addiction. Losing yourself in work. Losing yourself in world of warcraft. For a few other examples.

Why does the pwBPD think that abusing the Non is an appropriate response to his/her pain?

If you don't think it is your own pain, if you think somebody else caused it, thinking they are responsible isn't a big jump.

I'd also note that most of the time when a person does any or all of these things, they aren't actually "thinking" about it in a way that they are actually aware they are doing it.

[empath]

Why does the pwBPD believe that the Non is causing his/her pain, when the Non's actions often have nothing to do with it?

The other part of this is that pwBPD have black and white thinking (see splitting) which includes their thoughts about themselves. They have to be either all good or all bad. If their actions are causing them pain, they would be bad and feel lots of shame for that. So, in order to avoid being bad, they have to offload the cause of the pain to someone else. Then, they can be all good while the intimate partner can be all bad and the external cause of their pain (or bad feeling).


To the original post: my husband bought the book Boundaries several years ago for a gift to me - for the health of our marriage. He grew to hate it and didn't really understand it - thought it was a way to punish marriage partners and make them act right. I found it helpful.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey PeteWitsend, Sorry to hijack your thread temporarily and hope this discussion will help shed some light on your r/s with your W.  It does tie in with the projection you mention.  Thanks to all, LuckyJim