Has being Non-BPD impacted your other relationships?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

As part of my personal journey to gain an understanding of being non-BPD (my mother is an unofficially diagnosed high functioning hermit witch borderline), I have started to look at how I act in relationships, other than the one with my BPD mother.

I have noticed that I tend to put up a lot with being treated badly. I am too easy-going and too quick to forgive others. I have a hard time standing up for myself. I've always made it a priority to be well-liked and to make other people happy. I almost have a fear of making people angry at me. I also get very upset if someone thinks negatively of me in any way. I strive to be good in every aspect of my life. Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for myself, but the problem usually has to rise to an extreme circumstance before I finally will speak up.

Over the years, I had a boyfriend who hit me (I ended that relationship immediately), I've had boyfriends who have been mean and bossy and I endured it, I've had friends who treated me like garbage and I accepted it, and I've had a few bosses who totally crossed the line into harassment and discrimination, which I eventually did something about, but still accepted it for too long.

I seem to have an inability to do the so-called "nip it in the bud" thing. I find myself making excuses for the person's bad behavior, I tell myself it will be too much of a battle to confront, or I tell myself I need the person and I'd better not cause any problems by speaking up. I then find myself ignoring problem after problem.

Over the years, I have found myself upset or angry privately at how I am treated, yet I repeatedly find it very hard to find my find my voice and let the other person know.

The question that I am asking is - None of these relationships have made me happy, yet I have often endured bad treatment by others. Have I put up with being treated badly because I have been conditioned by my BPD mother to be quiet or else?

I am going to start seeing a psychologist this summer, so I know this is one of the things I will try to work on.

Have any of you non-BPD's experienced this behavior in yourself? I am really curious if this is common behavior among non-BPD's.

[Finallyawake]

As part of my personal journey to gain an understanding of being non-BPD (my mother is an unofficially diagnosed high functioning hermit witch borderline), I have started to look at how I act in relationships, other than the one with my BPD mother.

I have noticed that I tend to put up a lot with being treated badly. I am too easy-going and too quick to forgive others. I have a hard time standing up for myself. I've always made it a priority to be well-liked and to make other people happy. I almost have a fear of making people angry at me. I also get very upset if someone thinks negatively of me in any way. I strive to be good in every aspect of my life. Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for myself, but the problem usually has to rise to an extreme circumstance before I finally will speak up.

Over the years, I had a boyfriend who hit me (I ended that relationship immediately), I've had boyfriends who have been mean and bossy and I endured it, I've had friends who treated me like garbage and I accepted it, and I've had a few bosses who totally crossed the line into harassment and discrimination, which I eventually did something about, but still accepted it for too long.

I seem to have an inability to do the so-called "nip it in the bud" thing. I find myself making excuses for the person's bad behavior, I tell myself it will be too much of a battle to confront, or I tell myself I need the person and I'd better not cause any problems by speaking up. I then find myself ignoring problem after problem.

Over the years, I have found myself upset or angry privately at how I am treated, yet I repeatedly find it very hard to find my find my voice and let the other person know.

The question that I am asking is - None of these relationships have made me happy, yet I have often endured bad treatment by others. Have I put up with being treated badly because I have been conditioned by my BPD mother to be quiet or else?

I am going to start seeing a psychologist this summer, so I know this is one of the things I will try to work on.

Have any of you non-BPD's experienced this behavior in yourself? I am really curious if this is common behavior among non-BPD's.

[madeline7]

Hi Finallyawake,
And BTW I feel like finally awake is what I am going thru! I have an unBDB Mom with Narcissistic traits. She is now old and widowed so my Dad, who was a great guy but enabled her, is no longer around and so the dynamic has changed. I am finally in counseling and thought I was going to figure out ways to not only set healthy limits but to sustain them. But what I am now realizing is exactly what you are questioning. I didn't understand how my behavior with others has been influenced by having a disordered Mother and dysfunctional family. I am not surprised and yet somehow floored by this discovery. I just changed counselors this week and hope to continue my journey of healing and taking care of my needs. I check this site frequently as I find it is helpful to hear about other members, as I feel they are truly the only ones who "get it". Wishing you peace.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Finallyawake:  

The question that I am asking is - None of these relationships have made me happy, yet I have often endured bad treatment by others. Have I put up with being treated badly because I have been conditioned by my BPD mother to be quiet or else?

We can't rely on others to make us happy, that is something we have to take responsibility for.  It can take some work to change your mindset, but we all have to make peace with the fact that we can't please everyone all the time.  There may be some people that we won't ever be able to please in any way.  (i.e. perhaps a jealous coworker).

I can empathize with your situation. I think that many members here are codependent and are dealing with what I refer to as "The Disease to Please".  I think our individual temperaments have a bit to do with it, but I think the biggest factor is having a disordered parent.  My situation was minor, compared to yours, but I did have a father that had BPD traits.  He was constantly critical and prone to rages.  He wasn't physically abusive, but a critical and raging parent can have an impact on a shy child.

My parents did their best to treat both my sister and I equally. Interestingly, my sister wasn't shy as a child.  She was always asking my parents for something, usually money.  I, on the other hand, didn't ask for much.  (I'd rather not ask, for fear of getting an angry "no". I was always fearful to bring friends home, as a child, for fear that my dad would embarrass me by raging while company was there.  It never bothered my sister, she could have cared less. My sister took on my father's BPD traits, plus a few additional ones.

We can choose to set boundaries and limit our exposure to those who are unpleasant to be around.  Boundaries and situations will differ, depending on whether your are dealing with family, friends or coworkers. Workplace relationships are unique, with a multitude of situations and relationships.  Healthy boundaries are good for the workplace as well.  

Over the years, I have found myself upset or angry privately at how I am treated, yet I repeatedly find it very hard to find my voice and let the other person know. . .I am too easy-going and too quick to forgive others. I have a hard time standing up for myself. I've always made it a priority to be well-liked and to make other people happy. I almost have a fear of making people angry at me. I also get very upset if someone thinks negatively of me in any way. I strive to be good in every aspect of my life. Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for myself, but the problem usually has to rise to an extreme circumstance before I finally will speak up.

Worplace situations can get tricky.  You need to set healthy boundaries, but you have to, also, decide which battles to take on. Some issues in the workplace, among peers, can be rather straight forward to handle.  Issues with your supervisor, higher management or how Company policies are enforced can get problematic.  After working several years for a very large corporation, I learned that HR is there to protect the Company and that doesn't necessarily promote your best interest. (especially if you are a salaried nonunion person)

The Workshop at the link below might be helpful to read:

EMESHMENT AND CODEPENDENCE

I'm wondering if your unique relationship with your mom restricts your potential to meet new friends?  Could it be that if you have a limited opportunities to meet new friends that you might let friends take advantage of you?   If you have friends that become a burden, you need to decide if you want to try to resolve issues or let the friendship go or minimize your interaction.  

Are you able to share a couple of recent examples of situations with friends?  How about some examples of recent situations from your workplace? (Where you were taken advantage of)  It can be helpful to do a little boundary practice, by reviewing some past situations and think about some alternate actions you could have taken.

This issue sounds like a good one to tackle during your upcoming therapy.  As you work on setting and enforcing more boundaries with your mom, you could simultaneously work on boundaries in other areas of your life.  What do you think?

[Finallyawake]

Hi Naughty Nibbler,

Okay - a recent example of a situation with a friend... .I've got the perfect example. I recently confessed everything to my one remaining friend about my mother having BPD. My friend and I have been friends nearly my whole life. She's the one who promised to drive me to the psychologist starting this summer.

My friend and I were supposed to get together the other day. I had texted her and told her I had a very quick but extremely important question to ask her (I needed advice about something unrelated to the content we discuss on this forum) She replied by saying she had an important work thing that just came up (she has a big important job) and she not only didn't ask what my question was but also cancelled our plans at the last minute. She did promise to call me later. It's been two days. I've called her once and texted her once being totally nice each time, BUT she has not called or texted back. I am afraid to tell her I am angry because she is supposed to drive me. However, at this point, I am not even sure I can rely on her.

It's kind of hard for me to believe she's been too busy since she's already posted three stupid news stories on her Facebook wall, adding her own comments since then.

You are totally correct. It is impossible for me to make new friends. Last year, a woman I knew wanted to get together with me. She didn't invite my mother and it nearly caused World War III. My mother fought with me for hours. The thing that made it even more absurd is that I actually detested the woman and I had no intention of getting together with her, even though it would have been nice to have another friend. However, my mother did not know how I felt and was threatened and furious at me beyond belief.

Yes, I really need to work on setting boundaries. I am fed up with being a doormat. I just feel like I have no idea how to stop.

You know what is kind of funny? My mother has complained countless times that I let people walk all over me. However, she totally does not realize she is the one who made me this way because she walks all over me worse than anyone else ever has!

Understanding my mother's BPD and realizing just how much of an influence this has been on my life still continues shock the heck out of me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Finallyawake:   

I recently confessed everything to my one remaining friend about my mother having BPD. My friend and I have been friends nearly my whole life. . . . I had texted her and told her I had a very quick but extremely important question to ask her . . .She replied by saying she had an important work thing that just came up. It's kind of hard for me to believe she's been too busy since she's already posted three stupid news stories on her Facebook wall, adding her own comments since then

I'm just throwing out some thoughts for consideration.  None of them may apply.  Your friend might have something personal going on right now that you don't know about.  She might have a lot of stress and deadlines at work.  Whatever you asked her for, may have been something she couldn't deal with or take responsibility for right now.  Her Facebook activity was likely a way for her to chill out and destress for a few minutes.

Most healthy people have personal ways to destress, and it can be important for them to take little breaks during the work day. Working some Facebook activity into your friend's day, might be her chosen way to destress a bit during her work day.  What can seem like a waste of time to others, can just be a means for her to chill out. Facebook interaction at work definitely has the potential of becoming a problem.  In moderation, as a mini break, it could serve a purpose for some people within a certain set of circumstances.

I don't know what the nature of your important request was, but is it possible that your friend was uncomfortable with the request in some way?   I believe you indicated that you just recently told your friend about your situation with your mom.  That might be a lot for her to process right now, especially if she has had a very normal situation within her family.  Could she have some trepidation about possibly being placed in the role of a rescuer or caretaker for you? 

Because of your relationship with your mom, could you be viewing your friend's Facebook activity through the eyes of your mom? I'm thinking your mom would criticize you for chilling out for a few minutes on Facebook when she felt you owed her something?

Friends can set their own boundaries in regard to a friendship with us. Those boundaries can change over time.  Perhaps your friend would prefer to not take personal phone calls during her working hours (but she hasn't been honest with you about it).  She could have a tight schedule and when you spoke with her on the phone, she could have had an important work issue to address.

I've called her once and texted her once being totally nice each time, BUT she has not called or texted back. I am afraid to tell her I am angry because she is supposed to drive me. However, at this point, I am not even sure I can rely on her. 

It would be good for you to develop a back-up plan for transportation to your therapist.  What are some alternatives?:  Uber?  Lyft? Public Transp.? Your Boyfriend?

Do you contact your friend at work, because your mom may interfere if you call from home? It might be best to contact your friend outside of work hours (at home). I can understand that you might feel angry and hurt that your friend seemed to not have time for your request, and then not get back with you.

You could have just caught your friend at a bad time and something was going on with her that is totally unrelated to you.  If the issue isn't about something going on with your friend, you might want to do a reality check and determine the following:  Is it a problem for her when you call her a work? (a distraction that is not in the best interest of the employer/company)  Was there something about your request that made her uncomfortable? Did it cross a boundary of hers?

Just offering a brainstorm of possible issues to stimulate some thought.  You need some honest feedback from your friend to help you sort things out.  I suspect you will feel a lot better, once you begin your therapy sessions. 

What are your thoughts?  Let us know how your next conversation goes with your friend.

Take care.   

[RandiDill]

I have noticed that I tend to put up a lot with being treated badly. I am too easy-going and too quick to forgive others. I have a hard time standing up for myself. I've always made it a priority to be well-liked and to make other people happy. I almost have a fear of making people angry at me. I also get very upset if someone thinks negatively of me in any way. I strive to be good in every aspect of my life. Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for myself, but the problem usually has to rise to an extreme circumstance before I finally will speak up.

This is so much like me! I was just telling my therapist the other day that growing up with a mom with BPD has made me an approval addict. I'm always worried that someone is mad at me. Even if I've done nothing wrong. If I miss a day at work and don't get a text or anything from one of my co-workers, I assume that I'm fired or that they're all talking about me. I know that sounds crazy, but it's how I've felt for most of my life and it's just starting to make sense now that I've tied it back to having a parent with BPD.

[Fie]

Hello Finallyawake,

I agree with what NN wrote.
My therapist recently pointed out that sometimes in friendships I get too easily the feeling of 'they don't really want to do as much for me, as I want to do for them'. With the result that sometimes I pull away a bit.

She also said it's normal considering the way my BPD mum treated me. I have learned to take a lot of crap from mum and as a result I still take a lot of crap from others now. But at some point, I feel that enough is enough, and than (I realize my therapist is right) I just don't see things for what they really are, and I get offended by how a friend treats me.

F.e. I sometimes feel bad / angry with a friend when they don't visit me for a long time. Then I think 'how can they not want to do this for me... .I visit them all of the time, they must not like me as much as I like them, etc.'. And then I pull away a bit and I am *convinced* that I have every right to be angry (well angry, not superangry, but still I feel resentfull enough to pull away).

My therapist told me to keep in mind this dynamic I  appear to be having, for when little annoyances with friends pop up. She also told me to examine if I have it with several friends (I did so, and yes, I have it with all of my friends if I am honest with myself  :-P)
She also told me my friend might not visit because she's tired. So I told her : 'ok, but I get tired sometimes too !' Her answer was : well, that might be true, but still, it's an explanation. My friend can also not like to drive. Or to drive far.

See what I mean ? On one hand having had a BPD  upbringing makes us go out of our way for others, and makes us take a lot of crap, too. On the other hand it also makes us expect too much of others, and see things that are not really there. This is normal. Because our childhood was so unbalanced, we started feeling : hey, what about me ? As an adult we project this feeling on the people around us.

I feel superhappy that I have just discovered this tendency in myself. It for sure makes my life a lot easier. Whenever I feel that a friend treats me 'unequal', I tell myself: 'remember what you are inclined to feel like with friends !' And it helps. Of course, abuse is something else. This is something I do not want to take from anyone anymore.
Sometimes for me it is difficult to tell if a friend is crossing a line with me, or not. Than I think back of the words of my therapist : 'Is what your friend is doing really, really bad ? Like, trying repeatedly to steal your boyfriend or so, even after you told them to stop ?'

Does this seem like something that might be going on for you, too ?

[Finallyawake]

Great news! My friend has not given up on me. She had something significant going on in her life that prevented her from replying to me. She apologized to me today. Of course I was panicked. She is one of the two people I have told about my mother and her BPD. (I never told anyone about my mother until this year). I am vulnerable and was afraid my issues being a non-BPD were too much for her to deal with. Thankfully, I worried for nothing.

With that said, I have a new dilemma. Despite my friend's reason, I do not want to rely on my friend to take me to the psychologist (starting this summer). She has a lot going on and while we will still be friends, I cannot rely on her for transportation, at least not regularly. My friend does not know my decision, but I think it is for the best.

I still need to get to the psychologist and my mother does not let me drive. So my options are:

Pay about $40 a week to go on my lunch break by taxi.
-or-
Lie to my mother and say I need her to bring me to a medical building once a week for work. I can lie and say I have a work assignment in this building. She will complain, but she will probably go along with it.
40 bucks a week is a little pricy for me. Besides, that does not include the co-pay for each doctor's visit.

Please share your opinions regarding what I should do. I don't like lying, but my Mom certainly has no problem lying or gaslighting me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Finallyawake:   

Great news! My friend has not given up on me. She had something significant going on in her life that prevented her from replying to me. She apologized to me today. Of course I was panicked.

I'm glad that your friend got back with you and apologized.  I can see how disturbing it must have been for you, to have it appear that she was ignoring you.  I can tell that her friendship means a lot to you.

I still need to get to the psychologist and my mother does not let me drive. So, one option is:
Lie to my mother and say I need her to bring me to a medical building once a week for work. I can lie and say I have a work assignment in this building. She will complain, but she will probably go along with it. . . .

Could this be an opportunity for you to evolve into driving?  If you ask your mom to drive you there, and she complains, bring up the subject of you driving.  If nothing else, it could stop her complaining.  I believe your mother is around 70? As her health and driving skills decline, she won't be a reliable means of transportation for you.  Sometimes, she just might not feel like driving you.  You might express your concern about your need to continue to work and make a living and that your need to be able to drive yourself.

If nothing else, it could just give you the opportunity to bring up the subject of you driving.  Perhaps your mom drives you the first time or two, then perhaps you keep suggesting that you drive the next time. 

What do you think?

[Finallyawake]

Sadly, this is not an opportunity to ease into driving. My mother will not let me have MY car. She insists she needs it and can't be without one (talk about unfair!). If I told her that I will drive next time and stood my ground, it would be World War III.

This is precisely the reason I am going to the psychologist in the first place. I need to find my voice, set boundaries, and take control of my life. I'm 100% no longer in denial, but I am terrified of the confrontation and fallout that will ensue as a result.

What is there for me to be afraid of? I am afraid of the fight. I am afraid of the threats. I will miss time from work. She will suddenly stop doing every single thing that she forces me to depend on her for, which is fine BUT it will require me to have alternate plans set up for everything. If I act on those alternate plans, she will be even angrier. She will fake every illness known to mankind. She probably would legitimately have some real stress related ailments too, all of which I would be blamed for.

It would not shock me if she upped the ante to new heights - calling ambulances, doctors, police, my employer, relatives. Who knows? I do know for a fact that the verbal rage I would encounter would be continuous and would last for weeks or months. She would refuse to leave my home and I would have to endure the verbal hell.

I also would feel bad for the torture she would put herself through. She would not see me taking control of my life as something I am doing for me. Instead, she would see it as something I would do because I hate her (which is the opposite of the truth). She would never forgive me for exerting my independence. I do not want to hurt her, but I cannot go on hurting myself any longer. I hope my psychologist is up for the challenge. I am a woman in her 40's going through what teenagers go through as they try to gain their independence.

All of these things would simply expose to the world that my mother really is a sadly disordered person. I know it is unlikely, but I fear that too for her. As much as I am fed up with her, I do not want my mother treated like a crazy person, locked up in some hospital or not treated with dignity or respect. She is not low-functioning, so I don't foresee her getting suicidal or resorting to physical violence with me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey again Finallyawake:   

What is there for me to be afraid of? I am afraid of the fight. I am afraid of the threats. I will miss time from work. She will suddenly stop doing every single thing that she forces me to depend on her for, which is fine BUT it will require me to have alternate plans set up for everything.     

I know that she has taken possession of your car and makes you rely on her to drive you to work.  What else have you been forced to depend on her for?

My mother will not let me have MY car. She insists she needs it and can't be without one (talk about unfair!). If I told her that I will drive next time and stood my ground, it would be World War III.     

Everyone here wants to cheer you on! This has to be a very difficult situation for you.  Hopefully, when you begin therapy, you will gain sufficient support to start setting boundaries.

You are the legal owner of the car.  A different way to view it is that you have allowed your mother to keep your car and not ever allow you to drive your own car. 

I appreciate your concern and empathy for your mother, but you life is slipping away from you. 

It would not shock me if she upped the ante to new heights - calling ambulances, doctors, police, my employer, relatives. Who knows? I do know for a fact that the verbal rage I would encounter would be continuous and would last for weeks or months. She would refuse to leave my home and I would have to endure the verbal hell.     

Just anticipate the worst possible situation with your mom, and then prepare for it.  Better to have a few uncomfortable months, than to continue as you are for years.  Unless you set boundaries and enforce them, your mom will control you and treat you as a child, until the day she dies.  (you might well be a Sr. Citizen by that time)

It would be strategic for you to advice your employer in advance, if you think your mother may call your employer and try to make trouble for you.  Others here have had to talk to their employer about a partner or family member who might call them.  Generally, employers are understanding and will keep the situation confidential.

You mention relatives.  Is there a relative that you can reach out to for support?  Do any of them have any idea about your situation with your mom?

You mention possibly needing to call police.  Do you fear that your mom might get violent?   

You made reference to "your home".  Do you own the home you live in, or does your mom?

   I do not want to hurt her, but I cannot go on hurting myself any longer. I hope my psychologist is up for the challenge. I am a woman in her 40's going through what teenagers go through as they try to gain their independence.

I admire how much you care for your mom, but no parent has a right to rob their child of a life. 

 

[Finallyawake]

Thank you for all of the responses. I see that I am not the only one who sees the impact of being a non-BPD spilling over into other relationships.

To answer Naughty Nibbler's questions -

My other things my mother mother has me depend on her are minimal, which is why I have not mentioned them. For example, she watches my dog while I am at work. Yes, I know I could get doggy daycare, but she loves watching my dog and it saves me money. She would only threaten to not dogsit. She would never actually make me get doggy daycare. It benefits both her and me to have her watch my dog while I am at work.

I know I am sacrificing my freedom and much happiness because my mother is too enmeshed in my life. That is why I have decided to go on this journey to straighten out my life.

I know that I have to do this. It will not be easy and I admit I am terrified to confront my mother. With help from this forum, therapy, books, and optimism, I will do it eventually. Every day I do feel like I am making a tiny bit of progress.

If all else fails, I know I will have to have a verbal argument with my mother and finally say this is my life and I get to decide everything about my life myself, without needing her approval. That terrifies me and I will try all other communication methods first.

Telling my employer - good advice. Thank you.

Telling relatives - there is no one I can trust. They are VERY gossipy and the news would go right back to my mom.

Telling police - I 100% have NO concerns about my mom getting violent. She is high-functioning. If she got really furious at me, I suppose there is an extremely remote chance she could call them, but even in this circumstance, I highly doubt it. There is no police matter. While it is a BIG issue to me, in a nutshell, I simply don't want her to treat me like a child anymore. I don't think the police would care!

My home - Yes, I own my home and my mother lives in it. Over the years, I have told her to move out three separate times. Each time, it caused a HUGE fight AND she would not leave. I know I could legally evict her, but I can't bring myself to do that. I still love her and when her BPD is not full blast, she and I get along very well.

In fact, it would be really easy if she were a monster 100% of the time. Then I would have no problem going no contact.

Yes, my mom is robbing me of my life. For years, I let her do this, foolishly telling/lying to myself and saying that it was a good thing.

If I were in my teens or early 20's, it would have been much easier to detangle from her. Now that I'm in my 40's and she's in her 70's, I've got to deal with her care. I would not put her into assisted living. It's just not something I would do.

My goal for my relationship with my mother is to still be close to her and care for her. I am even okay with her continuing to live with me. However, I want to drive, make decisions for myself, and be able to openly go out with friends and a boyfriend without a rage response from my mother. She is getting what she wants. Now it is time for me to get what I want.

[Harri]

Hi again Finallyawake. 

I don't see how it would be possible after growing up with a BPD in the family, especially a parent, to have other relationships be impacted in some way.  No one gets out without scars.  Heck, no one gets through childhood without some kind of scar even with 'normal' parents.

Looking back and at my present, every single one of my relationships has been affected. Growing up in and then staying in an abusive environment changes the way I look at the world and at other people.  It changes how I process things, how I respond (or react), it changes what is important to me. 

I am still searching for that elusive healthy relationship though I think I am finally on the right path.

I have a question for you.  I know you are planning on going to therapy to help you set boundaries.  What are your expectations regarding therapy?  How do you see it impacting your ability to set boundaries with your mom?

Be well and keep moving forward!