Pretty devastated...

[publicdefender]

Everything you are going through is perfectly normal in a normal healthy relationship.  Most of the time we understand the reason for a normal relationship falling apart, it's one or both parties and it's relatively apparent what's going on.  And usually after a breakup there are still lines of communication open between the parties because they're both emotionally mature (ish) individuals so closure can be had.  In my past breakups I've always been able to pinpoint the reason for the breakup.

With BPD there is nothing of the sort, yet we try to rationalize the relationship as if it was a healthy one between two emotionally mature individuals.  So when our partner in a normal relationship says "You've done this that hurt me!" we can honestly evaluate it and put some credibility into what they're saying.  Same thing goes for the BPD - we think there is some credibility to what they're saying so we evaluate it as such.  And when they "ghost" you, blaming closeness or something wrong you did, it can't be farther from a normal breakup, and you will want to either steer it back to the relationship or steer it to what you would consider a normal breakup.  And right now you're asking everyone if she'll get back in touch because you so want to hear from the idealization split that you grew so attached to.  Everyone here has had that feeling.  We all minimize or put upon ourselves the bad stuff they do and blow up all the good at the beginning of the relationship.

I've said this before, but they're like a constantly wounded animal, and the thing that hurts them is emotions.  They're so focused on survival, pulling away from the emotions, that whatever is going on with you is far in the distance in their mind.  You are hurting them by their point of view, and they will do whatever it takes to get distance.  Any type of communication will be seen as you trying to emotionally hurt them.

You want closure or you want her back, that's understandable.  But you are also wanting that from the idealization split that you grew attached to, and you're taking everything from the devaluation to heart thinking it's from the same person who idealized you.  My thought is, if they aren't willing to go get treatment for their condition, then the true BPD is the devaluation split - the one who wants to make you feel like an awful human being for caring for her.  The one who stayed a hot minute after you tried to commit suicide.

I honestly think that the only reason why anyone who has dealt with a BPD should break nc is to see if the BPD is in treatment for the condition and how well the treatment is going.  If they're unwilling to make a commitment to get help then they don't really care and are just trying to make themselves feel good for a moment.

And you're wondering if she feels bad about what has happened.  She probably feels it way more than most but she's built in the defense mechanisms to counter those feelings so she projects them almost immediately.  :)eep down she's constantly fighting that battle with the emotions so subconsciously she feels it and it leaves her empty and hating herself in general, but her mind won't allow those things to become a conscious thought without them being put on other people for fear the emotional turbulence will ruin her.

[once removed]

"I love you but I dont trust you" doesn't sound like a proper reason to walk away from me when I gave her nothing to not trust me over... .

it does seem contrary, doesnt it? people with BPD traits are generally distrusting of others. a hallmark of the disorder involves frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, even perceived. those perceptions, real or perceived, validate a distrusting belief system. and in a romantic relationship, these fears are heightened.

she said I made her feel hideous.

im really sorry youre going through that. its not anything that anyone asks for.

people with BPD have a high rejection sensitivity, so it makes sense (from her perspective) that she would take this very personally, and believe that it is all about her. when a person (anyone really) is emotionally dysregulated, feelings are like facts. in other words, from her perspective, she felt hideous, therefore she was hideous. that, of course, is not your fault (and it very likely was not the reason for the breakup or her behavior after it), but i found understanding the way the disorder played out during my relationship gave me a different perspective and helped me to depersonalize. it helps to talk.

[msh28]

I can honestly say that with this break up, the guilt and blame she put on me, lack of money due to losing my jobs and the uncertainty of my hospital appointments (whether permanently damaged or not) this is the lowest I have ever felt in my life.

I suppose all the running after her has pushed her further away, I just wanted to try and get my point across that NOTHING I am going through was anything to do with me finding her hideous.

My head is just going mental over everything that happened before that I am now piecing together and trying to make sense of. I wrote her a letter and gave it to her and it was pretty nasty but I felt like she was just laughing at my misery.

I wish I knew about BPD while I was still with her, maybe I could of understood her better, I don't know. I always thought she was a bit cold but I've never experienced a level of cruelty this bad and if, by some miracle, I am able to get my head sorted out, I never want to feel like this again.

A part of me is wondering whether she found someone else near to the end as she kept accusing me of things I'd never do, I did lie to her a few times and she brought up those things as reasons why she couldn't trust me but those things happened months and months ago and I thought we were past that.

The last time I saw her I begged her to believe me that I was a decent guy and she could trust me and she said she wanted to believe me but her mind wouldn't let her.

I just feel so worthless because she hasn't even asked me if I'm okay. Does that mean she never thinks about me at all?

[publicdefender]

She won't ask if you're okay.  It's not about you, it's about her.  Even in the idealization phase it's about her not scaring you off so she doesn't feel lonely and abandoned.

She probably does think about you, but right now it's nothing good.  You're black to her, totally evil.  She's not thinking about all the good times, she's taking every single minuscule "bad" thing and blowing them out of proportion.  Her mind won't let her think about the good times.

[Mutt]

Hi msh28,

She won't ask if you're okay.  It's not about you, it's about her.  Even in the idealization phase it's about her not scaring you off so she doesn't feel lonely and abandoned.

She probably does think about you, but right now it's nothing good.  You're black to her, totally evil.  She's not thinking about all the good times, she's taking every single minuscule "bad" thing and blowing them out of proportion.  Her mind won't let her think about the good times.

A pwBPD split the people that they care about most.

[msh28]

Is there any chance of this changing or is this usually permanent? Anything I say to her just makes things worse, it's like talking to a brick wall.

[publicdefender]

There's really no permanence with BPD.  The switch can be flipped pretty much any time.  But that's a problem - typically the more it's flipped the easier it is for it to be flipped and the shorter the time between.  She actually probably flipped a couple times when y'all were together by the sound of it.  The problem is you'll be in this same position down the road starting over with healing the wounds she caused.  Without extensive therapy there is absolutely no way to keep her happy, eventually the bottom falls out and she'll ghost again.

Mutt's right - she cares about you, and that's the problem to her.  Caring means loss of independence and self to the emotions.

[msh28]

She's got a weird way of showing it IF she does care about me. She's tried everything she can to avoid me and treat me like the worst piece of sh** on this planet.

Even when I came out of hospital, she never called me and now that I'm blocked from everything she seems to have just forgotten about me.

She said don't turn up at her house or at work but I've been guilty of doing that a few times. Looking back, I know I shouldn't of done that but I couldn't help it, I thought she could give me all the answers or even change her mind about us but I know that will never happen now.

She's made me out to be the villain when all I tried to do was encourage and support her... .and with this ED problem I have had since November, I was worried things would go this way.

Strangely, I think it was sex with her that caused that damage and now I'm dealing with the probability that I could have permanent damage.
Weirdly enough she used it against me claiming I made it all up and I make her feel hideous because of it. Even after she has been coming to my hospital appointments since November.

I'll admit, I did tell a few white lies but I never cheated on her or even thought about being with anyone else. There was no reason for her to even think that, I'd even let her check my phone if she asked to.

Is that likely the reason or could it be her own guilt or maybe she found someone else? Is this typical BPD behaviour?

[publicdefender]

You're still basing your logic on a normal person.  If she is BPD she is interpreting her caring as something scary - either a loss of independence or an opportunity for abandonment.  All she can see is how her emotions could potentially hurt her.  There is no way of logically explaining it to her because then she'll take that as an attack or any number of other negative things.

You can sit there and ruminate all you want to about what could have been the breaking point, but it has nothing to do with you or your treatment of her.  Eventually she would find a reason to push away and flip the switch.  They are so scared that every little thing can set them off, and they will even design traps or tests that are pretty much unwinnable just to prove the point that there is a chance you could abandon her or that there is something wrong with you that would keep you with her despite her abuse.

I don't know you from anyone else, but I can guarantee you that you don't deserve the constant punishment she has put you through.  You deserve a relationship where the other partner is in it and with you and loves you.  You may think she's worth putting up with all this because of her initial behavior with you but until she gets treatment everything she does will be to constantly avoid being alone and being abandoned.

[msh28]

Honestly I could of lived with it if she sat down with me like a normal human being and discussed it like adults do.

"I love you but I dont trust you and without trust it will never work but we can be friends and try to rebuild trust"

That was what she said initially... .Then after the 3 days I met back up with her she disappeared again and it was back to. "I love you but I dont trust you"

Now, she's giving off all the vibes that she hates my guts, like I'm the worst person she's ever known. I don't understand it and I never will.

She could of said any other reason and it would of sounded less made up.

[publicdefender]

It's not necessarily made up, to her.  She doesn't trust you.  She doesn't trust anyone once she's emotionally connected to them.  My BPD said pretty much the same thing the week before ghosting, and she constantly said "I don't think I can handle this relationship, it's just too hard."

[msh28]

So how come her relationship with her ex lasted so much longer than us? that's what I wonder.

He wasn't a better guy than me... .

[roberto516]

So how come her relationship with her ex lasted so much longer than us? that's what I wonder.

He wasn't a better guy than me... .

I know the spot you are in. You want it to make sense. We all did. I obsessed, and ruminated on her and what went wrong, what I lost, what I did, where I messed up, was I a failure, etc etc 24/7 for far too long. Have you tried to go to therapy? It really will help. But the rumination and looking for answers keeps us all as hamsters on a wheel. If you read the replies of people you will see the answers to the questions you are looking for. They probably aren't the answers you want. They weren't the answers I wanted.

I'm not in any way trying to tell you to stop feeling, being sad, etc. But the rumination will lead nowhere but to despair. It's really time to take care of yourself. Find hobbies, talk about your feelings as opposed to details about the relationship, keep busy, etc. It's the only way to heal.

I see me in you. And I know how you are feeling right now. I'm sorry. It does get better. I'm not close to being "better". But I am better than when I was. And that's something. 

[msh28]

What has annoyed me the most is when she dumped me she straight away seemed to forget I existed. Every contact was initiated by me, not her. She never asked are you okay? Just straight ignored me like I mean nothing to her.

Maybe I didn't ever mean sh** to her, that's the hardest thing to take. All those memories I have, she doesn't. She just hates me for no reason at all and she's justified that in her own mind, I am a sh** person not worthy of a text message at least.

Do they ever think about other people at all? Or do they never ever look back? I mean, she said we would be friends maybe that was a lie too, her way of saying 'I know I treated you like ___ but I don't want you to hate me'.

I texted her 12 hours ago and I'm still waiting for a reply, I know she's never off the phone so I know she's just ignoring me again.

Does Karma even happen to sick people like that? Do they ever regret what they did, even a little?

[roberto516]

Do they ever think about other people at all? Or do they never ever look back? I mean, she said we would be friends maybe that was a lie too, her way of saying 'I know I treated you like ___ but I don't want you to hate me'.

I want to be honest, but not harsh by any means. I've noticed you have asked this question many times on this thread. What is the answer you would like for one of us to tell you?

And it seems to me like you are by no means ready to end the relationship with her. The best thing you can do is go no contact. Because two things will happen. One, she will see you stopped and she will come back. Because right now you are giving her exactly what she wants, and it's also turning her off to you to see you pleading. They need strong people to latch onto. Second, by going no contact there is a slight chance you might see the light of why you are better off, and you might tell her no. If you do or if you don't the choice is certainly up to you. I don't want this to seem like I am telling you what to do. I only know all this because of my own all too real, and all too fresh experience that is similar to yours.

[msh28]

The fact is, I don't know if she will come back even if I do ignore her. There was an attraction between us, unless that was just my imagination as well. I'm a good looking guy it was just unfortunate for me to develop sexual problems along the way.

And I guess I blame that in myself as well, what if? What if she actually dumped me because of that and made up a reason to get rid of me? I guess I'll never know... .

Pretty sure she will have moved on by now if these boards are anything to go by. I was the one providing her affection every night and now that I'm not there, I am pretty sure someone else will be in my place and it sickens me that she tried to hide this from me and keep stringing me along.

I hope she realises what she gave up, a guy she could trust and who genuinely loved her but if what I've read is true, there's not much chance in that happening.

[publicdefender]

People look for karma on here all the time.  The karma is essentially that she won't live a life like you or I, having close friendships and relationships that matter.  They will constantly burn bridges their entire life and constantly be scared of being alone and will subconsciously hate themselves, becoming an empty shell.  It's a sad life.  I have been told by one of our court psychologists that they usually burn out of BPD by age 40 just because of the sheer energy needed to run the defense mechanisms they constantly run.

Think of it kind of like this, even though it's not totally accurate.  With your hospital troubles did you ever get to the point that you were just totally focused on the pain and wanting it to go away?  :)idn't matter who or what was going on around you, maybe lashing out at doctor's to f'ing fix the problem?  That's kind of how a BPD person is with emotions - they just want it fixed and can only think of their own survival.  They're so focused on abandonment that they will do almost anything to get a relationship and they're so focused on independence and not losing themselves they'll only focus on escaping the perceived threat, whether it be lying or ghosting or fog to keep control and at a distance.

The emotions you are feeling are completely natural, you're grieving.  Roberto is right - you can't ruminate to try to make the emotions go away, you'll just make them worse by going down the rabbit hole.  be angry and sad and all of that.  The answer to all of your questions down the rabbit hole is that she has a personality disorder, the only way to fix it is through specialized therapy, and you are not a piece of sh**, a bad person, or any other bad thing.  You deserve someone that won't push you to suicide and will stick with you at the hospital when you have issues.  Not a shell of a person.

[msh28]

To be honest I think if the hospital sh** had been sorted out, I might still be with her now, but who knows... .

She never could get her head around it, neither could I really, I just knew there was (and still is) something wrong and I'm no closer to getting it sorted out. It was 50% that and 50% her dumping me and ignoring me that drove me to wanting to commit suicide in the first place... .

And then after all the time we'd spent going to the hospital and talking over it, she came out with "You were making it up, weren't you, you make me feel hideous about myself".

The last few weeks her behaviour was a bit dodgy and I was asking myself if she was cheating or not, or if it was because I was making her 'feel hideous', because of my problems. She'd do things like not let me see her body, or cover herself up really quickly after sex, I always wonder if she overlapped because as soon as she dumped me it was like she instantly didn't give a ___ about me anymore.

Even at the hospital I could see her wanting to get away. If she has done that, I hope karma comes around because there was no need for all of this blame to be put on me and there was no need to treat me like I didn't exist and then, even after all of that, I still wanted her back and she had no intention of it, just strung me along and then discarded me again.

[msh28]

I've even started to wonder now whether I have BPD or not but I was relatively normal until I met this girl and now I just burst into tears randomly throughout the day.

I have never felt so abandoned in my whole f**king life and she's out there enjoying herself and having fun.

What is wrong with me?

[In a bad way]

I've even started to wonder now whether I have BPD or not but I was relatively normal until I met this girl and now I just burst into tears randomly throughout the day.

I have never felt so abandoned in my whole f**king life and she's out there enjoying herself and having fun.

What is wrong with me?

I've read all your posts and I understand 100%, with me it was 48 weeks yesterday the last time I saw her.
She is all I can think about every waking minute, I can barely hold down a conversation with people on the odd time I do see someone.
I can't even write on here properly because my thoughts are too fast for my typing.
I too burst into tears at all times of day no matter where I am, although I spend 98% of my life stuck in a single room on my own.
I like you can't believe the abandonment and how she can just carry on and not even send me a text in all this time.
She knew how bad a state she left me in so to think that the woman who was wearing my engagement ring and who said I was the one and she loved me could do that to me is still killing me.
I'm dead to her and obviously I must have been since the day we split or she would have made contact.

I understand exactly how you feel trust me.
I can't function, I have zero motivation and a single track mind, my brain functions are now damaged and I can't fix it.
Life consists of watching TV and messing about on the PC until I can get back to sleep which then I constantly keep waking up. Then it all starts again like groundhog day.
This has all left me  a nervous wreck also and even going to the shop is a scary trauma.
So yes I know how you feel and I am really sorry for you because the thought of somebody else feeling this way is not nice.

[msh28]

Did she leave you for someone else?

This is what I don't understand, she still says there is nobody else, she isn't seeing anyone. Well who's getting all her phone calls, text messages and giving her the affection that I used to?

How else would she move on so easily if there was nobody else?

[In a bad way]

No she didn't leave for someone else, she left because we had a massive fallout due to me losing the plot after all the abuse she kept giving me.
Also she kept letting me down over something and I always lost out, it's too long a story for me to write at the moment.
Anyway I told her some home truths in not a nice way and that was it. whether the truth hurt or whether she just couldn't see it and thought I was being nasty I don't know.
I'd tried to explain it all to her for months but she only saw her side.
She said I was a nasty scary man, so I think she couldn't forgive me for what I said even though I forgave her for the verbal abuse she gave me on a weekly sometimes daily basis.
Seems like it was OK for her to do it but not me.
She may well have someone else now I don't know, I often wonder if she is back with the guy she was engaged to before me.
Thing is I know he is the only person she has ever recycled (twice) and she treated him badly and I am friends with his brother and he is a nice guy.
Of course she blamed him for their split like she blamed her other previous BF's.

I think she just has the ability to switch off her feelings and move on, delete people from her life as though they never existed without thought for the other person and without feeling hurt herself. Or she can put all the blame on me and to her she is totally innocent and is the aggrieved person who has been wronged.
I know she has done it to other people and never contacted them again.
I envy her ability to do this even though I couldn't do it to someone, I want to hate her in the hope it will make me feel better as that's what seems to work for her, but I can't hate her.

[msh28]

I want to hate my ex for making me beg and plead with her all for nothing. How do they do it? It's like one massive lie and then they dump you on your head and just expect you to be like "ok, fair enough I'll just walk away".

Do they get enjoyment out of making people feel like ___? I mean, I wouldn't wish this sh** on anyone, not even a murderer.

Do they just keep repeating the same patterns with every person they are with? or is it just me?

Someone needs to teach me how to actually destroy a person like that, not because I'd want to do that to someone else, because I'd understand it better.

[msh28]

Once you are devalued and discarded is that it?

Like nothing I say to her has any effect any more it's almost like she enjoys seeing me suffer. She won't answer the phone, takes forever to reply to messages and just ignores me most of the time.

Is there anything I can do or say to make her realise she's made a big mistake or will I always be treated like this now?

[happendtome]

msh28, i know that being dumped is very hard. But, if you would read other posts here where BPD-s do this:
-
She won't answer the phone, takes forever to reply to messages and just ignores me most of the time.
-
then people suggest no contact.

You know, we all have had probably times in our lives where we have been too clingy, done begging and so on. If i think about those episodes in my life i feel embarrassed. So take this advice and dont do it. Stop it. If you feel that you want to text something very needy to her then the best solution would be to change your smartphone to those old buttonphones. And im not kidding, its not as bad idea as it may sound.

[msh28]

She's behaving very oddly i.e texting at 2 in the morning, asking if I can talk, messages not going through on WhatsApp sometimes, won't meet me for a coffee and a chat so I've got it in my head she's seeing someone else but why keep in contact with me then?

She swore on her mum's life she wasn't seeing anyone and I don't see any reason she would have to lie about that since we're not together anymore. But why will she not meet up with me then?

Does she think I might mess up her new relation___ or something?

[Rayban]

Msh28

You are wanting closure from a person who is mentally disordered and not able to. Just admitting she has any fault will make her feel tremendous shame, and her fragile house of cards will come down. Right now, you are the wind to her precious house of cards. She will do what she has to provide shield.

Right now, you are that coworker ex you saw her talking to before you refused to ride with. I'm sure she was giving him the I need some space but we could be friends speach. Probably had sex with him before she dumped him to be with you. That's probably what she was doing when she had sex with you a few weeks after having broken up with you. You were a backup plan in case it didn't work with the next guy.

Word of advice, be careful that she doesn't get a restraing order out on you for harassment. You keep on calling or trying to contact her and her family and thats what will happen. Do you need that in your life at this moment?


This person had you contemplating taking your life, she's caused you to lose your job, you've been estranged from your family because of her ... .when is it going to be enough. You want closure so bad,  you're going to have to get it from yourself.  Take a month to step back, go no contact, and you'll finally realize that getting away from her was a God send.

[Pretty Woman]

Msh,
   I am so glad you found us here. Welcome to the Family. 

I am also sorry you are going through this. As Once Removed mentioned, it would help to read the articles on this site and familiarize yourself with "depersonalization".

My ex told me she loved me with all her heart and we would always be best friends. She said this while crying and holding me in her arms. She then proceeded to tell me she found another (who was a mutual friend of ours) but nothing was changing.

As I left her home a locksmith was pulling up to change the locks on her doors. I never saw our dog again and while she reached out to me twice via email---while I was off on a vacation we booked together a week later... .alone, I chose not to respond. She had left me several times in our relationship and I was not taking this again.

What happened after that? Well I was blocked, slandered and accused of rape. Accused of all sorts of malicious horrible things, when two weeks earlier this woman cried telling me she loved me no matter what.

I like to think of it as "emotional amnesia". There are times you will appear in their minds in a positive light but it seems to be when whomever they are currently with isn't working out. They are hyper focused on the replacement and that is where all their attention goes until they begin to devalue them. After that, all that is left is the discard which is inevitable.

You are trying to rationalize this from a healthy mindset and that is why this is so painful. All the crap your ex did... .THAT is the true person. You need to block out the words "I love you" and realize her ACTIONS were her true identity.

Did she ever love you? In her way, yes. She NEEDED you. It's not the same love as in a healthy, give and take relationship.

She might reach out someday, she might not. There is no way to predict that. But you can't halt life waiting for it to happen. What are you currently doing to try to move out of your current funk? Are you getting sleep and eating? The best thing to do is try to get back on a schedule for yourself, set some goals you can obtain. Take up a hobby you've always wanted to try.

Keep your mind busy.

As Rayban mentioned you are wanting closure from someone who is not capable.

How do you think can you give yourself the closure you need?

[msh28]

The fact is, I know she's likely seeing someone else and has probably already moved him into her house but my thinking is why not tell me that? Why keep contact open with me?

Why lie and say you aren't seeing someone, we said we'd be friends yet she is so busy she can't even come for a coffee for half an hour?

I don't get it. Am I a fall back option or something?

[Pretty Woman]

Let me ask you this:

Could you handle being friends with her? If she decided to confide in you that this new person is "the love of her life" and she has never met someone so deep, so amazing.

How would you react to that? Could you honestly sit there and support her words without a reaction?

Here's the thing. I know three people who stayed friends with our mutual ex. The only time she hung out with them is when she was a)bored or b) wanted to throw her relationship in their face to see if they still "wanted" her and were jealous.

Do you really, really think you could be friends with someone who replaced you so quickly? Someone who moved in the new guy days, weeks later?

I am not trying to be mean, I hope I am not coming off this way... .email/typing sometimes does! I am just playing the devil's advocate here and providing some scenerios to think about.

With any breakup, time and space is needed. BPD breakups are not the norm. Her schluffing you off, not even meeting for coffee is showing you WHO SHE IS. If she were interested she'd meet for coffee. She's not.

This is your ex at her core. Why is it important to you to stay friends with someone who was never really your friend in the first place? Someone who treats you so poorly.

I think you answered your question: "Am I a fall back option or something"?

If she hasn't fully secured your replacement she is very likely leaving the door open a "crack" in case things fail. Mine did that three times until I caught on. It didn't happen a fourth, I took myself out of the equation. Of course I became the evil one because I stopped allowing her to manipulate me and hurt my heart.

You are only a fall back option if you allow yourself to be. If you remove yourself from the chaos she won't be able to rope you back in.

You hold the power, not her. Remember that, Friend.

I watched several of my ex's exes try to maintain friendships with her. Thing is this, friendship was just as one sided as the relationship. She would use them for support when things weren't working out with her current GF. As soon as she found someone else she would dump them on their a's and only contact them when things weren't working for her again.

It was all about HER needs and no one elses. You have to look at it from that perspective to avoid being burned.