The "Human Being" Defense

[Violettine]

Has anyone ever been hit with "mixed bag," "human being," "only human," "ups and downs" type excuses from people who may have seen a glimpse of the BP behavior but not the full monte, if you will?
"They're a mixed bag--a human being" could be code for "get over it" or "what do you expect?" or "it's only natural."
Yes, we're all "human beings" but if my bipolar had been brushed off as just a "human being" thing, I wouldn't have gotten treatment (just an example).

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[Doughboy]

If I am getting the jist of what you are describing then yes I have.  My experience has been that Family and friends of the uBPD exFiance is that they just say 'that is how she is" or "she has always been that way" or "She will make do... .she always does".  My favorite is when her Mother blames the abuse from a 2 yr marriage to an abusive 2nd husband for things that have gone on for 25-30 years... .

I have come to decide, based on others input, that they are all either worn out from, in denial, or it hits to close to home as the reason for it may be something attached to the family past.

It is very frustrating for me and I ma sure you feel that way also.

[Violettine]

Right.
It is a mindf*ck to experience what seems like the most caring partner in the world and the next day to be on the receiving end of their (public and private) yelling and criticisms/humiliation. To hear "they're only human" or "sounds just like love" is minimizing a very serious problem.

If I am getting the jist of what you are describing then yes I have. 

[waverider]

Its not the issue at hand that is the problem when living with BPD relationships. It is the ongoing bigger picture. You have to be on the inside to see that, even more so if your reactions are public. Then it is seen as tit for tat

[talking rose]

My BPD husband (undiagnosed) uses the "but i'm human" defense all the time, including after physical violence.  the implication is that it's my fault for triggering his human-ness.  it is minimizing, invalidating, and blaming.

[Portent]

Thats just the way I am was my exBPD's excuse.

[louisiana77]

I've both used and heard the "only human" explanation, and, in my experience, it's a really broad and almost impossible to categorize. I think it serves well when forgiving one's self or another for dropping the peanut butter jar on the newly mopped floor, but it's cold comfort when it's used as an excuse for abuse. That's the question I usually have to ask myself or others: "Is this being used to justify a mistake, or to justify abuse." In Talking Rose's case, or in any of physical abuse, it's the latter. My partner and I, who've both been guilty of pushing and hitting, are currently being seen by a therapist who's told us, in no uncertain terms, that any physical abuse will be cause for the termination of our work with her, and that there's no way to work on any emotional or psychological issues while physical confrontation or abuse is going on. Without violating the rules of this page, TR, or highjacking the discussion Violettine began, I'd urge you to take whatever steps you need to take in order to secure your physical safety, and not to confuse those steps with ending the relationship. And V, feel free to try my question on for size next time you hear someone say they're "only human." We all are, after all, and we need to forgive ourselves our f-ups, but only if we can also take others' feelings into consideration.

[Violettine]

Yes, it was used to justify abuse in this case, although not physical. No excuse for abuse! Granted, we can't all be cats  but let's not use a line that's tantamount to "I'm just being honest" while proceeding to humiliate. "Only human" doesn't let us rise to fully embody our humanity.

[Portent]

While I'm delving into sexism here the best explanation I have heard for BPD being more prevalent in women is that the same conditions tend to cause anti-social personality disorder to manifest in men rather than BPD. In short women due to being the weaker sex will tend towards being verbally and emotionally abusive (BPD) men being the stronger sex will tend more towards being physically abusive (ASPD)

Men with ASPD tend to be wife beaters and they use the same excuses for the physical abuse that BPDs use for the verbal and emotional abuse. Those excuses do not fly for physical abuse and they shouldn't fly for verbal and emotional abuse either. There is no excuse for abuse.

[Violettine]

Well, individual men and women can be weak or strong, and now experts are finding BPD is about equal gender-wise, but yeah--no excuse.

While I'm delving into sexism here the best explanation I have heard for BPD being more prevalent in women is that the same conditions tend to cause anti-social personality disorder to manifest in men rather than BPD. In short women due to being the weaker sex will tend towards being verbally and emotionally abusive (BPD) men being the stronger sex will tend more towards being physically abusive (ASPD)

Men with ASPD tend to be wife beaters and they use the same excuses for the physical abuse that BPDs use for the verbal and emotional abuse. Those excuses do not fly for physical abuse and they shouldn't fly for verbal and emotional abuse either. There is no excuse for abuse.

[Keepingreal]

For awhile after being diagnosed, my pwBPD tried to use his diagnosis to *not* get treatment; after a ranting or rage episode, after the crying / victimized phase, if I tried to talk about how these incidents were a big reason he needed treatment, he would say, "But this is my *personality.* They can't *cure* it; this is just who I am." Ugh.

[Violettine]

PD is not the whole person. That's like me saying I don't have to treat my depression and I can go ahead and depend on others to attend to my needs because "that's just the way I am."

 was

Thats just the way I am was my exBPD's excuse.

[Violettine]

It takes a lot for me to react in public, but I know what you mean. They can gaslight by letting others believe you're the irrational one.

Its not the issue at hand that is the problem when living with BPD relationships. It is the ongoing bigger picture. You have to be on the inside to see that, even more so if your reactions are public. Then it is seen as tit for tat

[Violettine]

BS. The personality is not the personality pathology--ask Yeomans, Zanarini, Fonagy, almost any expert who counts now. Tell him to look up “the good-prognosis diagnosis.”

For awhile after being diagnosed, my pwBPD tried to use his diagnosis to *not* get treatment; after a ranting or rage episode, after the crying / victimized phase, if I tried to talk about how these incidents were a big reason he needed treatment, he would say, "But this is my *personality.* They can't *cure* it; this is just who I am." Ugh.

[Keepingreal]

Yes, definitely bs. He has spend almost a year pretending this diagnosis isn't real.

[Violettine]

Yes, definitely bs. He has spend almost a year pretending this diagnosis isn't real.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory. LOL. BPD isn't real. :/

[waverider]

It sounds like a conspiracy theory. LOL. BPD isn't real. :/

Unfortunately once they have accepted it they struggle to get others to believe it is real. Constantly being told they are just making up fancy terms to excuse being silly/lazy and they should just make more effort to pull their socks up. Even "its all in your mind"

The only people who seem to appreciate it as being real is the nons who have to with it.

[bananas2]

My BPDh will often give me the "I'm only human & human's make mistakes sometimes." I always counter with "Yes, they do, but the idea is to learn from the mistake, correct it, and then make changes to make sure it doesn't happen again." He'll usually end up agreeing with me at the time, but then go on to make the same "mistake" again - repeatedly, bc he reverts back to the same behavior that caused the "mistake." 
Along these lines, while we were visiting my elderly father this past weekend, I told my father that last year BPDh had totaled my car bc he was texting and driving (also damaged another car - no injuries fortunately). When my father told BPD hub, "At least you learned your lesson & don't text & drive anymore," I explained that he does still text & drive. My father absolutely reamed him - even asked, "How stupid can you be that you haven't learned your lesson & keep doing the same thing?" It was incredibly satisfying to finally witness someone (besides myself) call him out on his behavior.

[waverider]

My father absolutely reamed him - even asked, "How stupid can you be that you haven't learned your lesson & keep doing the same thing?" It was incredibly satisfying to finally witness someone (besides myself) call him out on his behavior.

And it still will make no difference... .

[Grey Kitty]

The idea that nobody is perfect, and he, too, is a flawed human being like the rest of us, yourself included is true.

That truth can be used deceptively and unfairly to get out of responsibility for his actions:

It would be a reasonable / fair defense if you were painting him black and telling him that he's a horrible person. (I'm assuming that you weren't doing this... .)

If instead, you were talking about how his specific behavior was hurtful, abusive, and is unacceptable, then it is a straw man argument, which he uses to get around taking any responsibility for his actions.

That said, calling him on this probably won't help--instead consider it to be a "clue" that he's in a mood where he won't acknowledge what he did to you, or be willing/able to change it. At least not now.

Take the hint and end the conversation.