Unhappy wife (fiance), unhappy life...

[cbheels]

Hello! I don't know if I am in the right place or if I'm premature to even post in this forum. But thank you in advance for accepting me into this forum and any feedback/advice you provide.

I am currently engaged to be married to a wonderful woman, who I love very much! We are currently going through a rough patch, which involves my youngest daughter (14yrs old).

My youngest daughter has exhibited behaviors in the last year that coincide with BPD. She had not been officially diagnosed, but she has had 2 hospital visits for anxiety induced vomiting, 1 inpatient stay at a mental health facility because she threatened to kill herself, She has been in DBT for 3 months and she has lied about my fiance to my ex-wife, who may also be BPD or NPD. My daughter has always had attention seeking behaviors. She constantly has something that hurts or gets very angry when she doesn't get her way.

There have been a lot of stressors in my daughter's life, especially in the last year. My ex-wife got remarried  to a man who was sentenced last year for 9 years for child pornography. My daughter still thinks he is a wonderful man who has done nothing wrong. I am still not convinced she was not abused, exploited or groomed by this man. Also, she was sexually abused by her grandfather (on her mother's side) when she was 3 yrs old. He was acquitted, but had been out of her life since then. My ex has recently brought him back into her life (not sure how much he is around my daughter or how much she is aware of).

In addition to this, my ex-wife has done a good job of alienating my kids against me as much as she can. My ex and I share joint legal custody (50/50 week on/week off). My ex does everything she can to be my kid's best friend rather than a parent. She constantly undermines my parenting and decisions and makes me look like the bad guy to my kids. Because of this, I had to modify our court ordered custody agreement to include a parenting coordinator and mandatory therapy for my kids in order to help with making decisions in the best interest of the kids.

I'll be honest, I was a bit of a permissive parent during my first marriage, mainly because it was easier to let my ex-wife make the decisions than be confrontational. I became more permissive after the separation and divorce, mostly because of guilt. Since, I have met my current fiance and see how great of a parent she is to her own children, my eyes have opened up to being a better parent. Within the last year, I have set up expectations and boundaries for my kids. I have gotten a lot of pushback, but they seem to be catching on that this isn't going to change. Our relationship is still not great, but we are working on it.

So, back to my fiance and I. My fiance was previously married to a BPD. Because of this, she is very sensitive to the way my daughter acts and behaves. It triggers her and reminds her of her ex. My fiance is struggling with whether or not she can cope with this or not. We have not been able to move in or blend families due to this stress. We have just recently started going to a family therapist. My fiance is very concerned that my youngest daughter when she doesn't get her way or attention, could lie about something that could put my fiance or her children (2 boys, 10yrs old and 8 yrs old) in danger. I completely understand her concern. I feel like I am in the middle and I need to choose between my daughter/s and my fiance.

We have homework from our family therapist to journal about 3 options for our future:
Option one: Me living week on/week off with my fiance and her kids, while the other week I live with my kids without my fiance and her kids until my youngest daughter is out of the house ~4-5yrs. I think I could live with this option, as long as it wasn't completely segregated. I'd like to be able to have occasional family dinners, activities, vacations or holidays together.
Option two: Living together in the same house (my kids would only be there every other week). This would be the hardest on my fiance, as she would always be scared my daughter would do or say something to jeopardize the safety of her kids.
Option three: Breaking up (obviously, not what I want).

What I'm wondering or hoping to get from this forum is feedback if anyone has had similar experience/s? What boundaries have you put in place? Is this doable? Are there other options I may not be thinking of? If Option 2 is viable, how do we explain this arrangement to my kids or her kids?

Thank you for listening and I look forward to any feedback.

Cbheels

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear cbheels-
Hi there and welcome to the BPD family.  I'm sorry that you're dealing with so much. I'm very new to this site and I'm sure you'll receive more experienced responses than mine; however first, let me say that it's great you're in therapy with your fiancé to assist with these issues.

Without making or "breaking" any promises, could there be a subsection of Option one?  Living apart, working toward blending your families through United activities, periodic pajama parties, starting off slowly maybe, etc.  Then down the road, if your daughter perhaps does therapy and your fiancé is ready, maybe you can move in together before 4 or 5 years.  And no rules say you have to wait those 4-5 years to be married, right?  I guess The bottom line is to look at the big picture, what you and your fiancé want your NOW and your future together to look like.  That, combined with making sure your daughter feels she and her health are a priority to you (and to her HEALTHY future stepmom), who can be a wonderful positive influence on her.  And taking care of your fiancé 's children as well.  It's complicated, but the two of you sound like two very open, willing and loving partners.

Just my two cents... .all my best to you.

Gemsforeyes

[cbheels]

Thank you for the response, Gemsforeyes! I think your option is definitely something I could work with. I am not sure if my fiance is ready to accept that, but maybe if we don't put a specific timeline and we take it slow, she would be able to accept it.

My fiance's concern is what to tell her boys about getting married before we are living together. Should they know the true concerns we have about my daughter? Would that put them on high alert? Would they not feel safe around my daughter then? If not, what do we tell them the reason for not living together or why we aren't married yet?

I think both of us had a different picture of how our NOW and FUTURE looked.

Thank you again!

Cbheels

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear cbheels-
This is so so difficult for all of you.  I'm not a therapist, so my knowledge is limited.  And I sometimes look at things differently than other people.  Nothing says your marriage picture has to mirror anyone else's.  I happen to know married people who don't live together full-time (by choice!).  It just works better for them.  With the assistance and guidance of a qualified therapist (who understands BPD), maybe one way to present it is the age difference of the kids, their different school, homework, activity levels at this point, just make things more smooth to maintain separate households for a while?  You're right, you don't want to create fear or distrust between the children.  You do want them to get to know one another with open hearts.  Your daughter will eventually have two new little brothers she can help and protect.  What's inside each family's picture  frame doesn't necessarily have to look identical, but can still be happy... . 

Since you admire some of the ways in which your fiancé parents, you can still strengthen your modeling of that style - and see how your daughter continues to responds.  Your girl seems to be at a fragile point right now, and probably needs to feel that you ARE there for her as a loving dad. How does her mother respond when your daughter faces these difficult times?  Does her mom work with you then?

You do have so much going on right now.  I'm so sorry for your pain.

You don't say how long you and your fiancé have been together. 

One more thing.  What category did you post under?  Look and see if you should consider reposting with a new heading under help with a child with BPD.  You may receive more experienced responses there.

All my best to you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Loveson]

CB, I'm also very, very new to this site  - but wanted to give you my opinion.

My 2nd son has had BPD his whole life, although I had no idea he did... .I just thought he was difficult. His dad had BPD, which is why I had to divorce him. I think the disorder has strong genetic components.

I remarried, and it was very stormy and difficult due to my new husband not being able to empathize with my son.

If I had it to do over again, I would have definitely chosen option #1 from your list.  It was so traumatic for all of us, but I had nowhere to go, my kids had nowhere to go, and same for my husband. My ex left the state, and neither my sons or I wanted to be around him.

It could be too stressful for your daughter to be too close or enmeshed with your new blended family, also - they're not strong emotionally as we know, and need as much structure and kindness as is humanly possible.

Just a thought.  Best of luck. You're doing an amazing job of being a dad!

[Panda39]

I might have missed it but how long have you and your fiance been together?  How well do your fiance and kids know each other?  I would (and did) focus on your fiance getting integrated with your kids and you with hers before putting everyone together... .then let the kids get to know each other gradually.

I've been living the take it slow plan for the last 7 years.  My situation is different because the pwBPD (person with BPD) is my SO's (significant other's) uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife). 

When I met my SO there were a lot of lies being told to the girls by their mother (like dad and I had an affair before they separated  ) and there was parental alienation going on too so the girls were hostile to their dad.

I didn't even meet his daughters until he and I had been together a year.  After many of those meetings I could be found in tears... .they could be truly mean to me.  They made false accusations of abuse against their dad, they would refuse to see him at times and I avoided seeing them.  They had a lot of loyalty to their mom, but with a BPD person you get so much more... .Enmeshment, Parentification, co-dependence... .so there was a lot of dysfunction tied to their relationship with their mom.  There was always a lot of drama surrounding the girls and their relationship with there mom too.

Like your fiance I had some difficulty navigating all of this stuff I didn't understand (we didn't discover BPD until about a year into the relationship), I was furious at these daughters I hardly knew because of the way they hurt their dad, I couldn't understand how these girls didn't see how screwed up everything was, how they could spy on him and report back to their mom    I also felt sometimes my SO wasn't showing any backbone in terms of standing up to his uBPDxw and  his daughters.  I also felt sorry for everyone that they had this crazy person in their lives that made everything such a mess, and then I read about BPD and felt empathy for the ex too. Like a ping pong ball I was bouncing between caring and anger.

I had so many conflicting feelings about all of them and the situation... .I had more than a few meltdowns.  Should I stay or should I go?  I loved my SO he and I were great together but I didn't know if I'd ever be able to have a relationship with his kids, was the relationship worth it, was this a good situation for me? I had a lot of things to work through.  I decided I didn't want to throw the baby (my SO) out with the bath water (the drama), so my first step was to just stop trying with his kids just put the focus back on us.  I backed off and did nice things for the kids from a distance, eventually I would occasionally go do things with all of them, I used board games as a way to have a fun relaxing time together, and gradually things began to improve, not always smooth but better, we were all getting more used to each other. 

It's funny but I use Christmas as kind of a measure, the first year they barely spent time with their dad, year two was a little better, year 3 first post divorce Christmas, was okay, at some point I began getting the girls presents, one year I asked to do Christmas together my son & me and all of them and got shut down by his older daughter, I was hurt and angry and held a grudge for a few years about spending the day together, last year I finally spent the afternoon of Christmas day with them (my son had to work).

I would say that we, my SO's daughters and I are friends now. Neither my SO or I have the desire to marry... .been there done that, but we do plan on "living in sin"   together for a long time.  We live about 20 miles apart right now and the only thing keeping us apart these days is kid's school and geography.  (His younger daughter has PTSD so we don't want to up-root her if we don't have to and my son goes to community college near our home)

Taking it slow worked for me... .for us, it gave everyone a chance to gradually work through everything.  There was a lot of pain, anger, drama, confusion and conflicted feelings to work through.  I gradually began adding my son to the mix, he's a young adult and I invite him and he comes along if he wants to.

I think you came up with some good ideas.  I think you have to look at your relationship, what do you value, what do you want, what can you live without, and not what society says is the way you must do things.  Take your time and think it through, try different things or take a break from thinking about it at all an do nothing.  There is no right or wrong way to do things only your families way of doing things.

Panda39

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Cbheels-

I agree with everything that both Loveson and Panda39 have said.  The people on this site do give some amazing and heartfelt responses.

In many ways, I wish I had been aware of my ex-boyfriend's BPD before I had to let go of him, but it is what it is now.

You are a wonderful and loving dad.

Gemsforeyes

[cbheels]

Thank you all for the insightful feedback.  To answer your questions, we've been engaged since Nov 2016. We started dating a year earlier. The kids have been around each other on a number of occasions. We have previously gone on a week's vacation together. They get along very well. My youngest daughter has never had any outbursts in front of her boys or in front of my fiance.

I am leaning toward the slow approach too. However, what I am struggling with is what that means for vacations/holidays/family dinners. I'd still like to do those types of things as a family, but I don't want to force my fiance into an uncomfortable situation. I'm really hoping between the DBT, family therapy and my daughter's individual therapy, we can work through those uncomfortable situations before they occur.

Also, I'm curious if anyone put any boundaries in place that could prevent the outbursts or lying. Panda39, how did you deal with the lies from the girls? My fiance is afraid that I will not be on her side or that I will revert back to being a permissive parent.

I love my fiance very much and part of me feels guilty for putting her through this excess drama. Sometimes, I wonder if I should be a bigger person and just end our relationship to make it easier on her.

Thank you again for the advice.

cbheels

[Panda39]

cbheels,

Okay, so you've been together about 2 years... .nice 

In terms of parenting our kids we each parent our own but we give each other input and use it or not based on what we know about our kids and what we think is best for our kids.

Dealing with the lies... .my SO would have long rational, logical conversations with his kids, and this drove me nuts!  Everyone ignoring the big BPD elephant in the room.  I have a more direct style with my son... .but I can also be more of a black and white thinker than my SO. We as a couple have brought each other closer to each of our ways of doing things.  He is better at setting boundaries now and I can be more flexible (win/win).  His approach back then was probably better than mine, but I'm not sure how much of an impact it made at the time.  His kids were really angry with him for leaving, they spent majority of time with their mom who played the victim to the hilt, they were already enmeshed and their mom used that.  They weren't really open to hearing much their dad had to say.

The time during the divorce they all call the "dark time" and it really was, everyone hurt and behaving badly or at least not their best.

About believing the affair lie, I think that finally got resolved in their mind once they met me and one of the first questions I got was "when did I meet their dad" and I told them truthfully several months after their parents separated... .I corroborated what my SO told them.

Things improved post divorce (took 2 years) dad was awarded majority custody, the adversarial divorce fight was over and things started to go back to normal.  This was a period of adjustment for all of us, because the kids were now in the picture a lot more.  The girls had to adjust to spending more time with their dad, in his house, and his rules.  Our relationship got pushed to the weekends with no over nights at his house. We saw each other less because I was avoiding too much interaction with his kids back then, and honestly they had a lot to adjust to without figuring out what to do with me.   During the next 3 years their mom spiraled down... .evictions, couch surfing, unemployment, didn't drive, just general instability.  Then in 2015 she screwed her kids over each in a way that would hurt them most.  In 2015 the kids voted with their feet an moved in with dad full-time.  Another period of adjustment for all of us.

I think open communication is key to being successful at blending to households and even more important if someone in the mix has BPD.  My SO was really patient with me, and let me vent my anger at his kids, he was able to do this without getting defensive (he knew I wouldn't be that mad if I didn't care), we each were able to ask for things we needed, there were steps forward and steps backward, there were tears, there was frustration, there was anger... .but behind it all was love and the desire to be together in whatever form that had to take to meet the needs of our kids. 

I think you and your fiance are doing all the right things, communicating, reaching out for more help, and thinking in a flexible way.  You clearly love each other and are doing the work it takes to make all of this come together. 

How much does your fiance know about BPD?  Once I found out about it I hit my library with a vengeance and read everything I could.  Understanding BPD really helped me understand my SO's ex, what is marriage must have been like, and the kinds of things his kids might be dealing with. 

Would your fiance be interested in joining us here?  My SO and I are both members it really helped in terms of dealing with things we had to deal with surrounding his ex. We learned a lot of strategies, found out about some helpful tools, got support from others that "get it", were able to vent and learned to speak the same language.  It might help you and your fiance act as a team/be on the same page when it comes to your daughter.  There is a step-parenting board that she might find helpful.

Panda39

[cbheels]

Well, its been a few weeks and a lot has happened. Unfortunately, my fiance and I are no longer together. We broke up 2 weeks ago. It really has been a tough break up on me considering we both loved each other, but she could not get past the fear of my daughter causing problems in our relationship. I don't hate her for making this decision. I hate the situation itself. I keep wondering if there was something I could have done to keep us together. My kids didn't even respond when I told them we broke up.

Now, how do I keep from resenting my daughter? Or even better, how do I get her the help she needs? We are scheduled to see a family therapist next week. Her individual therapist is not helping or addressing any of the issues.

I am having a really hard time picking up the pieces and moving on.

-broken 

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear cbheels-
I'm really really sorry to hear that you and your fiancé broke up.  i guess we have to look at everyone's side here, but of course, I'm on yours.

From the sound of things, you really tried to mold this relationship in a way that would maintain as much comfort and safety as possible for her and her sons.  You did your best.  None of us can predict the behavior of others.  Even in the BEST of circumstances, when families are blended, there is going to be drama!  Unfortunately it seems to be unavoidable. 

Here's a bit of anecdotal evidence - I had no children when I met my ex-husband.  He had been married twice and had three kids.  He had been separated from his second wife for THREE YEARS when I met him; and for almost 3 years he and I NEVER spent a night together when he had the kids (they were 5 and 9 when we met).   We started spending nights together because he moved into my new home.  His ex had always complained about the place he lived in, and I was decorating two special rooms for the kids.  It was then that I begged the mother to meet me!  She had refused to meet me during all this time.  Does that make sense when I am caring for her young children?   She was a nightmare.  And Here's a "ha ha" - she is a therapist.  So you see?  No matter the situation... .people just NEED to create drama.  I don't know why... .

It's so difficult to meet a warm, loving and thoughtful man; down the road your ex-fiancé  may discover she's made a mistake in letting you go.  In addition, not everyone is open to taking on two boys (you never mentioned the level of involvement of her ex-husband).  And she may find herself dealing with some BPD traits in her sons as they enter their teens.  But who knows.  Her experience with her husband's BPD may have been so traumatizing that no matter what you did, she may have resisted any relationship with your daughter.

Regardless, you cannot resent your poor daughter.  She never asked to be like this.  She's only 14 years old and she needs your support.  From the sound of things, she's been a target, or a potential target already in her young life.  You've been a support to her and you don't want her to know that your ex-fiancé ended the relationship because of her.  I feel that Your daughter should be shielded from that blame and I'm sure you're protecting her.

As far as helping your daughter, you'll get there.  Continue learning what you can about BPD, and move to the area on this forum geared toward parents trying to help their children.  You'll find friends who are facing situations similar to yours.

Right now, you're hurting, too.  You're allowed to go through a grieving process- you've lost your love.  So please be kind to yourself and try not to blame yourself for the loss of this relationship.  It's just the situation.  I know... .Easy to say, hard to feel.  You have a great big beautiful heart.  And a very special woman is going to feel the beat of that heart.

Chin up, my friend.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hello cbheels and welcome to the parents board 

I'm so sorry to hear you and your fiancé broke up, you're having a hard time picking up the pieces and moving on is understandable, you loved each other, it's early days and it's painful and your heart is hurting. I'm sorry your ex-fiancé was unable to move past her fears, with your young daughter who needs support.

Now, how do I keep from resenting my daughter? Or even better, how do I get her the help she needs? We are scheduled to see a family therapist next week. Her individual therapist is not helping or addressing any of the issues.

Your feelings for your DD, your DD did not ask for her disorder and from what you say she's had more than her share of upsetting stressors, experiences in her young life and she needs her Dad. Your ex-f was unable to move past her own fears, that is not your DD's fault, does that make sense, can you accept that?

Getting the help your DD needs? What's the treatment plan, you mention DBT? What's happening with the individual therapist, in what way is it not helping or addressing the issues?

WDx

[Panda39]

Hi cbheels,

So sorry to hear about your break up     it will take some time to grieve this loss and you will most likely feel all kinds of emotions as you process things.

There is no one to blame here... .it isn't about blame... .it's about a relationship that can work for everyone.  This one didn't work for everyone involved and when we have kids it's a "package deal" and they are part of the decision.

Your fiance made her decision based on what was right for her and her children and I would also argue what is right for you and your daughter.  If she had continued down a path that didn't work for her it eventually would have led to something that didn't work for everyone.  Instead of dragging everyone through years of something she couldn't handle, or wouldn't handle well and possibly hurting people that she cares about, she decided to bow out.  I think she did this for her and her kids but also because she loves you and cares about your daughter, she recognized that she would not be her best in this situation and could make things worse. I would have done the same.

Instead of resenting your daughter... .love her.

Panda39