BPD Sibling and potentially former boss-- opinions

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi Everyone,

**Warning-- long post ahead. I promise, there's a point**

My sis has BPD and schizotypal traits along with several drug addictions, an eating disorder, and ODD. It has been a difficult situation for my family to navigate. My mom suffers from clinical depression. I believe that living with the situation has also caused my father to suffer from depression. As I got older (in high school) and started becoming more independent/ spending time with friends I noticed that the family dynamic in my household was not the average and began to realize that it is not normal for my mom to behave as she did (irrationally angry, often sleepy, and sometimes just sad- the depression), and also not normal for my sister to behave in the ways she did (constant need of attention, fear of abandonment, manipulative, and often self-serving).

Therefore, when my now-husband proposed to me, I said yes on the condition of a long engagement and at that time, I entered therapy. My husband had a nearly picture-perfect upbringing in a stable home environment with a sibling who is his best friend and parents who had a solid and happy marriage. I am glad that I entered therapy when I did because it really helped me to navigate the scary waters of being engaged and living with a BPD family member (this totally incensed my sister and she made several efforts to sabotage the wedding process).

Flash forward to this year. It had been nearly 6 years since I got married and moved out. I had finally reached a point in therapy when I felt ok to move on for a year or so without contact with my therapist. After a couple of minor health scares, I got checked out and was given a clean bill of health. I had been working for years toward multiple graduate degrees and eventually got a job in a new school district as a supervisor. Everything was looking up.

I had a really progressive female boss who seemed to be happy to have me on-board. I was completely up front with her that I had no experience in this type of role (came out of the classroom) and she seemed eager to mentor me. The first sign of trouble with the boss was some nasty comments she made about mentally ill people- joking that people needed to go to the funny farm or that if the work were too hard we'd have to check into the carrier clinic. I did not respond to these jokes because I find it insensitive as I have several relatives who suffer from mental health issues.

My boss had moved up to her role after being a principal at another school. Long story short, a teacher at the school was in charge of literacy for each building. The teacher from her former school became gradually more and more demanding of me (I was supposed to be her direct superior). She continually made demands of me in terms of giving her financial priority (for extra pay for herself) above others of equal rank and status, and giving her more supplies than the other schools. To be fair, this can be ok in situations where there is a genuine need or a new initiative, but in many cases, she just felt she was entitled to more money than others and should be able to have carte blanche.

I went to my boss with the initial situation and explained that I would like to help her out but I have xyz budget. I asked if the budget could be increased. My boss said no immediately, it was out of the question. Then, I explained the situation (including how this person had been falsely reporting her hours and getting overpaid for years). After asking me several times, the teacher brought it up in front of all of her peers and my colleagues at a meeting and my boss backed me up- that they were asking for too much, there wasn't money in the budget, etc.

After that, my relationship with the teacher was strained. She continued to push for the items that she was told no on. My boss gave her some new parameters/ a budget and she came back to me with a proposal that included neither of these things. At this point, this must have been the 10th time she had asked for this, even with the boss saying no. I became a bit short with her and explained that there was not money to fund it in that way and she should follow the boss' parameters. She suddenly began to complain that I wasn't doing my job the right way and that she wanted to go above me to my boss.

At this point, I said go ahead. I spoke with my boss about it afterward. She told me that I had to repair the relationship with the woman. I explained the situation and that the woman was asking me to show financial favoritism with public money. My boss effectively told me this was the correct action. While she did not expressly say this, basically, this woman was in her pocket from having worked with her and while she had to take a firm stance in front of the others, she essentially wanted me to take money and funnel it to her, and reject all the others in other schools. This is misappropriation of public funds and is a serious issue.

I had my first review with her in November. After we had this talk, she had told me we were 'ok.' My boss is relatively new to her job as well and was constantly confused, giving me conflicting answers and never sure of what was right, so I assumed that she would be somewhat lenient in her review given that I was just a few months into a brand new position. Boy, was I wrong.

This is where it gets bad. She began by telling me that I am dirty and that I have dirty hair. I disagreed with her and told her I shower on a regular basis. She said no, some days my hair is clean and sometimes it is dirty. I told her that it may be a bit damp in the morning and give the appearance of shiny-ness, but it is regularly cleaned. I also explained (at this time) that I had recently received an autoimmune disease diagnosis and that my medication (side effect) has caused a bit of dandruff. However, I wash it on a regular basis using a medicated shampoo and that takes care of the majority of the problem, and I told her I also see a dermatologist for it who confirmed this (as she was starting to imply that I have a bigger hygeine issue like lice).

She then told me that she noticed I scratch my head in meetings. I said to her, well, that is a subconscious behavior if it happens, and that I see many people scratch their heads. She then corrects me and says that she thinks I have a tic and that I need to explain myself. She explains that she has seen me pick at my head and bring my hand to my mouth. I explain to her that I have no knowledge of this behavior if it is even transpiring, but that if it were (and I think she is mistaken), it would be subconscious. At this point I am shaking as she is demanding that I explain myself and heavily implying a mental health condition. She also begins to imply that I should rethink my career path if I have a mental health disorder, which is bizarre, because we work in a school environment where we nurture children with disabilities and teach acceptance.

I then explain to her that perhaps she has seen me scratching my head due to the dandruff from my medical condition. She says well, if this is medical, I may need to think of it differently-- but correct me if I am wrong-- even if it were a mental health issue, that would be considered medical, right?

In any event, she basically told me that my job depended on me never repeating a behavior that she admitted I was unaware of.

The next several months, I had several uncomfortable meetings with her. She told me that I made her uncomfortable and that I should feel uncomfortable being there. She also told me that I was not smart and not a multi-level thinker but had difficulty giving me any constructive feedback. She had trouble finding anything wrong with my work itself because I consistently completed tasks on-time and to and above her specifications.

She gave me a list of things to do after the November meeting. I did every single one. In December, I had cut my hair and donated it (I do this every year or two to help cancer patients). Keep in mind-- I wash my hair on a regular basis. It is clean. Yes, at the end of a very long evening it can look a little crazy, or if I have been very active I can sweat. However, I shower and bathe on a regular basis and even have a note from my doctor stating that my condition has nothing to do with hygiene.

At a meeting in February, she told me that nobody likes me and that teachers are unhappy when I enter a room, whereas my coworker does not have that effect on them. I asked her for constructive feedback and she refused. She then told me there was nothing I could do between now and June to keep my job. Keep in mind I was meeting and exceeding all essential duties of my job and she had trouble even giving me feedback as to what she wanted me to do-- to the point that her write-ups of these meetings took weeks to come.

In education, if I was non-renewed it would effectively end my career. Most districts use an online hiring system and I would have had to check a box saying as much, which automatically filters me out of the hiring process. I had a 10-year career with excellent evaluations- not one bad observation or summative. I held a 4.0 GPA all throughout school while working multiple jobs. I had been selected for committee after committee and held an excellent reputation in my county meetings.

I was looking for a job since November, but with the election, people in my field are scared to move on. I was in the public school sector and privitization is the new Ed secretary's agenda. There were very few jobs to apply for and on the few interviews I got, they were either confused by why I was moving on so quickly or my boss new someone and badmouthed me (I don't have written proof or a willing witness, but I did get it by word of mouth that this happened). She was out for my career.

Best I can tell, this all goes back to her being insulted by my not just giving carte blanche to her pet a the former school (potentially violating ethics rules and possibly the law depending on the judge). She seemed obsessed with what I looked like (after I cut my hair she complimented it and I told her I donated it to cancer patients- she very nearly threw up and ran away because she was convinced it was dirty, even with my washing it, and I can say in 10 years of a career and my personal life nobody has ever called me dirty).

She repeatedly threw nasty, general insults at me with no specific feedback. Then, I quit, and I am literally leaving my field after multiple advanced degrees to go manage a grocery store (so that she doesn't non-renew me and I don't lose my career forever). When I handed in my notice, she called me in to 'wish me well' (har-de-har) and then began grilling me. What was I going to tell everyone? What story was I going to make up? (Correct me if I am wrong but I have nothing to be ashamed of here). I told her that her confidential legal secretary went around telling the whole office earlier that day. And being that everyone is related in this nepotistic district, they all knew anyway. Next, she told me to make her a list of all the ways that she failed me. She knew that she had failed me and that if she did a better job, it would have had a different outcome and possibly changed my entire career trajectory. After this, at another meeting, she started to try to dictate what I was to write to staff and I told her that while I would take it under advisement I would absolutely not lie about what was going on.

Questions:
-Does it sound like this woman has a personality disorder to you? I am thinking she does because this behavior of blaming and shaming without actually having any rationale reminds me of my relative with it.
-If you or your relatives have a mental health issue, have you experienced this at work? I am not going to say I never scratch or pick at my head, however, the only disorder I have ever had that I know of is mild depression (after my grandma died for a few months). If anything I have experienced my first bouts of anxiety the last few months as she systematically humiliated me and pushed me out despite my best efforts.
-Do you find that you tend to attract (or not notice the warning signs) of people with personality disorders? I have actually had a friend who was like this (several years back- I had to cut her out of my life). I am beginning to think that people 'find' me and I am somewhat blind to the warning signs.
-In your opinion, should I do something differently in my future career to avoid being pushed out?

[sisbpd]

Hi Everyone,

**Warning-- long post ahead. I promise, there's a point**

My sis has BPD and schizotypal traits along with several drug addictions, an eating disorder, and ODD. It has been a difficult situation for my family to navigate. My mom suffers from clinical depression. I believe that living with the situation has also caused my father to suffer from depression. As I got older (in high school) and started becoming more independent/ spending time with friends I noticed that the family dynamic in my household was not the average and began to realize that it is not normal for my mom to behave as she did (irrationally angry, often sleepy, and sometimes just sad- the depression), and also not normal for my sister to behave in the ways she did (constant need of attention, fear of abandonment, manipulative, and often self-serving).

Therefore, when my now-husband proposed to me, I said yes on the condition of a long engagement and at that time, I entered therapy. My husband had a nearly picture-perfect upbringing in a stable home environment with a sibling who is his best friend and parents who had a solid and happy marriage. I am glad that I entered therapy when I did because it really helped me to navigate the scary waters of being engaged and living with a BPD family member (this totally incensed my sister and she made several efforts to sabotage the wedding process).

Flash forward to this year. It had been nearly 6 years since I got married and moved out. I had finally reached a point in therapy when I felt ok to move on for a year or so without contact with my therapist. After a couple of minor health scares, I got checked out and was given a clean bill of health. I had been working for years toward multiple graduate degrees and eventually got a job in a new school district as a supervisor. Everything was looking up.

I had a really progressive female boss who seemed to be happy to have me on-board. I was completely up front with her that I had no experience in this type of role (came out of the classroom) and she seemed eager to mentor me. The first sign of trouble with the boss was some nasty comments she made about mentally ill people- joking that people needed to go to the funny farm or that if the work were too hard we'd have to check into the carrier clinic. I did not respond to these jokes because I find it insensitive as I have several relatives who suffer from mental health issues.

My boss had moved up to her role after being a principal at another school. Long story short, a teacher at the school was in charge of literacy for each building. The teacher from her former school became gradually more and more demanding of me (I was supposed to be her direct superior). She continually made demands of me in terms of giving her financial priority (for extra pay for herself) above others of equal rank and status, and giving her more supplies than the other schools. To be fair, this can be ok in situations where there is a genuine need or a new initiative, but in many cases, she just felt she was entitled to more money than others and should be able to have carte blanche.

I went to my boss with the initial situation and explained that I would like to help her out but I have xyz budget. I asked if the budget could be increased. My boss said no immediately, it was out of the question. Then, I explained the situation (including how this person had been falsely reporting her hours and getting overpaid for years). After asking me several times, the teacher brought it up in front of all of her peers and my colleagues at a meeting and my boss backed me up- that they were asking for too much, there wasn't money in the budget, etc.

After that, my relationship with the teacher was strained. She continued to push for the items that she was told no on. My boss gave her some new parameters/ a budget and she came back to me with a proposal that included neither of these things. At this point, this must have been the 10th time she had asked for this, even with the boss saying no. I became a bit short with her and explained that there was not money to fund it in that way and she should follow the boss' parameters. She suddenly began to complain that I wasn't doing my job the right way and that she wanted to go above me to my boss.

At this point, I said go ahead. I spoke with my boss about it afterward. She told me that I had to repair the relationship with the woman. I explained the situation and that the woman was asking me to show financial favoritism with public money. My boss effectively told me this was the correct action. While she did not expressly say this, basically, this woman was in her pocket from having worked with her and while she had to take a firm stance in front of the others, she essentially wanted me to take money and funnel it to her, and reject all the others in other schools. This is misappropriation of public funds and is a serious issue.

I had my first review with her in November. After we had this talk, she had told me we were 'ok.' My boss is relatively new to her job as well and was constantly confused, giving me conflicting answers and never sure of what was right, so I assumed that she would be somewhat lenient in her review given that I was just a few months into a brand new position. Boy, was I wrong.

This is where it gets bad. She began by telling me that I am dirty and that I have dirty hair. I disagreed with her and told her I shower on a regular basis. She said no, some days my hair is clean and sometimes it is dirty. I told her that it may be a bit damp in the morning and give the appearance of shiny-ness, but it is regularly cleaned. I also explained (at this time) that I had recently received an autoimmune disease diagnosis and that my medication (side effect) has caused a bit of dandruff. However, I wash it on a regular basis using a medicated shampoo and that takes care of the majority of the problem, and I told her I also see a dermatologist for it who confirmed this (as she was starting to imply that I have a bigger hygeine issue like lice).

She then told me that she noticed I scratch my head in meetings. I said to her, well, that is a subconscious behavior if it happens, and that I see many people scratch their heads. She then corrects me and says that she thinks I have a tic and that I need to explain myself. She explains that she has seen me pick at my head and bring my hand to my mouth. I explain to her that I have no knowledge of this behavior if it is even transpiring, but that if it were (and I think she is mistaken), it would be subconscious. At this point I am shaking as she is demanding that I explain myself and heavily implying a mental health condition. She also begins to imply that I should rethink my career path if I have a mental health disorder, which is bizarre, because we work in a school environment where we nurture children with disabilities and teach acceptance.

I then explain to her that perhaps she has seen me scratching my head due to the dandruff from my medical condition. She says well, if this is medical, I may need to think of it differently-- but correct me if I am wrong-- even if it were a mental health issue, that would be considered medical, right?

In any event, she basically told me that my job depended on me never repeating a behavior that she admitted I was unaware of.

The next several months, I had several uncomfortable meetings with her. She told me that I made her uncomfortable and that I should feel uncomfortable being there. She also told me that I was not smart and not a multi-level thinker but had difficulty giving me any constructive feedback. She had trouble finding anything wrong with my work itself because I consistently completed tasks on-time and to and above her specifications.

She gave me a list of things to do after the November meeting. I did every single one. In December, I had cut my hair and donated it (I do this every year or two to help cancer patients). Keep in mind-- I wash my hair on a regular basis. It is clean. Yes, at the end of a very long evening it can look a little crazy, or if I have been very active I can sweat. However, I shower and bathe on a regular basis and even have a note from my doctor stating that my condition has nothing to do with hygiene.

At a meeting in February, she told me that nobody likes me and that teachers are unhappy when I enter a room, whereas my coworker does not have that effect on them. I asked her for constructive feedback and she refused. She then told me there was nothing I could do between now and June to keep my job. Keep in mind I was meeting and exceeding all essential duties of my job and she had trouble even giving me feedback as to what she wanted me to do-- to the point that her write-ups of these meetings took weeks to come.

In education, if I was non-renewed it would effectively end my career. Most districts use an online hiring system and I would have had to check a box saying as much, which automatically filters me out of the hiring process. I had a 10-year career with excellent evaluations- not one bad observation or summative. I held a 4.0 GPA all throughout school while working multiple jobs. I had been selected for committee after committee and held an excellent reputation in my county meetings.

I was looking for a job since November, but with the election, people in my field are scared to move on. I was in the public school sector and privitization is the new Ed secretary's agenda. There were very few jobs to apply for and on the few interviews I got, they were either confused by why I was moving on so quickly or my boss new someone and badmouthed me (I don't have written proof or a willing witness, but I did get it by word of mouth that this happened). She was out for my career.

Best I can tell, this all goes back to her being insulted by my not just giving carte blanche to her pet a the former school (potentially violating ethics rules and possibly the law depending on the judge). She seemed obsessed with what I looked like (after I cut my hair she complimented it and I told her I donated it to cancer patients- she very nearly threw up and ran away because she was convinced it was dirty, even with my washing it, and I can say in 10 years of a career and my personal life nobody has ever called me dirty).

She repeatedly threw nasty, general insults at me with no specific feedback. Then, I quit, and I am literally leaving my field after multiple advanced degrees to go manage a grocery store (so that she doesn't non-renew me and I don't lose my career forever). When I handed in my notice, she called me in to 'wish me well' (har-de-har) and then began grilling me. What was I going to tell everyone? What story was I going to make up? (Correct me if I am wrong but I have nothing to be ashamed of here). I told her that her confidential legal secretary went around telling the whole office earlier that day. And being that everyone is related in this nepotistic district, they all knew anyway. Next, she told me to make her a list of all the ways that she failed me. She knew that she had failed me and that if she did a better job, it would have had a different outcome and possibly changed my entire career trajectory. After this, at another meeting, she started to try to dictate what I was to write to staff and I told her that while I would take it under advisement I would absolutely not lie about what was going on.

Questions:
-Does it sound like this woman has a personality disorder to you? I am thinking she does because this behavior of blaming and shaming without actually having any rationale reminds me of my relative with it.
-If you or your relatives have a mental health issue, have you experienced this at work? I am not going to say I never scratch or pick at my head, however, the only disorder I have ever had that I know of is mild depression (after my grandma died for a few months). If anything I have experienced my first bouts of anxiety the last few months as she systematically humiliated me and pushed me out despite my best efforts.
-Do you find that you tend to attract (or not notice the warning signs) of people with personality disorders? I have actually had a friend who was like this (several years back- I had to cut her out of my life). I am beginning to think that people 'find' me and I am somewhat blind to the warning signs.
-In your opinion, should I do something differently in my future career to avoid being pushed out?

[Panda39]

Hi sisBPD,

I'm actually in a similar situation with my boss.  I have been struggling for over 2 years to make a connection with her, never have been able to and like usual have spent a lot of time taking on responsibility for this... .I have the unfortunate habit of taking responsibility for my stuff and if you let me I'll take responsibility for your stuff too 

But I had a weekend of clarity last weekend.  I realized that I am seeing a lot of the dysfunctional behaviors that we talk about here... .angry outbursts, projection... .literally telling me what I'm feeling while I'm standing there telling my boss I feel something completely different, there have been veiled and not so veiled threats (of being fired), there have been double binds and there has been gaslighting. 

Our old staff meetings used to be an hour and collaborative, now they are a 2 hours boss power point presentation either of all the fantastic things she is doing or it's a way to pump us for ideas that she takes and as far as we know she presents as her own.  My job duties were evaluated by the compensation manager and it was determined that I was working at a higher level than my title at the time so I received a promotion and a raise.  My came to tell me sat down and proceeded to tell me she "has my back" like I owe her something for my promotion (I owe her nothing).  Myself and some other co-workers all have our birthdays in the same month so rather than do all 3 we decided to celebrate all together.  We picked a day that worked for all the birthday girls and everyone else but our boss would be on vacation.  The boss made us reschedule the party for a day that she chose, at a staff meeting, made one of the birthday girls come in on her day off, and then she proceeded to arrive 10 minutes late to the meeting!  She made our birthdays all about her! Needless to say I have no interest in celebrating my birthday at the office this year.

I believe I'm dealing with someone with narcissistic traits and because of this and some other factors, I've decided to look for another job.

What I can see from your story is Gaslighting... .the dirty hair scenario (don't JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) she saw that this got to you so continued to bring it up.  She was bullying you. She seemed to like the role of Rescuer and Persecutor on the drama triangle (my boss likes those rolls too) The confusion and inability to convey clear instructions seems to be an issue too.

I don't know if she's BPD just like I don't know if my boss is NPD but we both experienced some things that are "off".  I've found that these "off" behaviors can be subtle and not always easy for others to see or understand when they do see them.

We also need to look at ourselves what role have we played in these relationships, what role do we play that satisfies something in that other person.  Like I said at the top of my post I need to be careful not to take responsibility for things that aren't mine, I need to step back and not take some things personally (let her play on my insecurities),  I need to do what is best for me, I can stand up for myself to a certain extent but she is in the power position and I understand this... .so I'm looking for another job that is a better fit.

Questions:
-Does it sound like this woman has a personality disorder to you? I am thinking she does because this behavior of blaming and shaming without actually having any rationale reminds me of my relative with it.
-If you or your relatives have a mental health issue, have you experienced this at work? I am not going to say I never scratch or pick at my head, however, the only disorder I have ever had that I know of is mild depression (after my grandma died for a few months). If anything I have experienced my first bouts of anxiety the last few months as she systematically humiliated me and pushed me out despite my best efforts.
-Do you find that you tend to attract (or not notice the warning signs) of people with personality disorders? I have actually had a friend who was like this (several years back- I had to cut her out of my life). I am beginning to think that people 'find' me and I am somewhat blind to the warning signs.
-In your opinion, should I do something differently in my future career to avoid being pushed out?

Like I said above I don't know if your boss was BPD but at the very least she was IMO a bully

I'm on this site because of my SO's (significant other's) uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife) so am in a different role in terms of the BPD person in my life but I can tell you that my SO's older daughter has experience the feeling that she is a magnet for people that are "off" too.  It's tough because she has been raised in a dysfunctional family has learned some of that dysfunction herself so maybe doesn't always make the best choices and at the same time doesn't realize why she made a particular choice. Having boundaries is difficult for her and her sister, so some people with issues that have no problem mowing down weak boundaries have entered their lives that they discover they have to push back out. We wish D20 would attend therapy both to deal with anger she has around her mom and to learn some better coping skills but she's over 18 so we can't force it. Therapy around what has happened with you might be a good idea too, you can't change your old boss but you can change you and what you do, or get some help looking at things in a new way that might be helpful and you can really talk it out with someone professional that can help.

The one thing I did see that you could have done differently would have been to not JADE when she was telling you something about your hair that wasn't true.  When you JADE in that situation you make something that is invalid into something valid and she played on that.  JADING is a natural reaction but often times is not productive.

I'm sorry you had to quit and I'm in the same boat, but you walked away from an unhealthy situation and I think that was a good move on your part.  What are your options for going back into education?  Could you go to another school district?  Do you have other professional references that you could use?  I know you're feeling disappointed right now but a job out of education for right now might not be horrible... .taking a break, getting some distance and taking the time to plan your next move.

Just wanted you to know your not alone in this type of situation, and yes it does really suck!

Take Care,
Panda39

[sisbpd]

Hi there,

Thanks so much for your helpful reply. I would love to read more about the whole JADE thing you mentioned and about gaslighting. I really do believe that a lot of this was gaslighting. My hair is not dirty.

While I will not say that I have never scratched and/or picked at my head, it is not a frequent thing. The only thing I can think is that shortly after I started my medication, I got more dandruff and it was itchier/ more broken out than normal. However, it was not unhygenic. Dandruff does not have anything to do with hygiene.

More to the point, even if I did have a skin-picking disorder, that is a medical diagnosis. I thought people were not supposed to be able to discriminate against/ fire a person for a medical issue? I guess I am so mixed up about it all.

It's definitely not an all or nothing situation, but this year there have been very few job openings due to the change in national leadership. Educators are afraid to move on as there is a very anti-public school sentiment going on at a national and even at a local level. Therefore, I have applied, I have had interviews, but it hasn't gone anywhere. A lot of this had to do with either her badmouthing me behind my back or the interviewers being spooked by the fact that I was only there a little over a year.

I think that if I do ever want to go back, there will be some opportunities. I have my degrees/ certifications, and in a better market, it's possible. I have some feelers out about a few opportunities (fingers crossed) but I have had these types of things slip away in the last several months, so I am cautiously optimistic.

For the time being, I am in a job I don't hate with a company that has amazing benefits and treats its workers exceptionally well. I actually feel spoiled, because as a public worker, I am used to being told that we were out of money for toilet paper (haha!). Being at a corporation that gives me excellent benefits, 401k, pension, amazing training, regular breaks, and free lunch and snacks makes me feel spoiled. 

Again, thank you for your advice and kind words. I truly want to grow as a person from this awful awful experience.