She Asked To Come Back Today

[Turkish]

History:

She started cheating the summer of 2013. It took 4 months after I finally got her out of the house while she led a double life and phoned it in as a mom. She was 31, the guy was still in college, 21, I was 41. Not quite a year later, they got engaged,  married in the summer.  But 2 months co-habitating, she lapsed into server depression. Several incidents of DV followed the next spring and summer. She called the cops and he was cuffed,  but let go (this was her scared trying to leave his brother and he jumped on her hood. He was cuffed and body slammed because he wouldn't follow their directions).

The DV came soon after. She punched him hard enough to bruise her hand. I was on the verge of reporting it.  Talked to her, talked to him separately. Gave both good advice, like I would to anyone here.  I was detached.  I pretended they were members of didn't know. Both thanked me,  and both didn't listen.  They both almost got arrested on Christmas eve when they called the cops on each other.  My ex only told me because D5, then 4, awoke to see the cops in the apartment. She moved into a different apartment in the same huge complex a week later.

An opportunity came up two weeks ago to ask her about things.  She said he still texts and calls,  but they hadn't seen him in a month.  The last time he came over (I cautioned about only meeting him in public,  and I think he set her up on Christmas eve to call the cops and punish her for not only the DV, but her verbal and emotional abuse---- so she didn't take my advice and almost got arrested), he reeked of pot. Of course this angered her even more.

She asked to move back in to save money and move out at some indeterminate point later.  I said no (firm, but nice,  I still have to co-parent with her).

Today:

We were both of work. I had planned on taking the kids hiking.  They wanted to invite her.  I had planned on just doing a joint breakfast, but I invited her hiking. That went well.  We went out to brunch and split the bill.  

I asked if she minded if we stopped to get gas.  She said,  "No! I want to go home now!" She was making a joke.  I said,  "for a moment I thought you were serious and I had a flashback. " She said, "was I that much of a [female dog] to you?" I didn't say anything.  

When we returned to my home,  the kids wanted her to stay and watch a movie.  I said that was fine,  though being nervous.  Not due to her, but the kids.  As I said,  she was cool the whole day.  

As she was leaving after the movie,  the kids wanted her to stay and play. It was two hours before the therapy tech was scheduled to arrive to work with S7 and his autism.  If I had given permission,  I think she would have stayed another 4 hours.

The kids were crying, and I could see through her windshield that she was crying.

The kids were mad at me,  combative. I calmed them down because I know how to do that.  Validation first, which only kind of worked,  then SET, kind of,  then distraction.

Half an hour later I got the text, like,  "can I please come back? I can't be without my kids. "
Funny, she had no problem neglecting them while she was playing with a college football jock. I kept my cool,  and at this point,  I'm past the anger,  and responded.  She thanked me for my wisdom,  so I guess I responded correctly  (am I still The Father?).

What bothers me is that part of me entertains the idea.  With her income,  I could sell the house and move into a better neighborhood and school district. I don't even know what she has in mind: an open marriage? A faux marriage like her aunt and uncle (they actually make that work).

I texted a buddy tonight. He said, if you saw the red flags before and proceeded, how many more red flags are there with her now? She's seperated, but still married.  Adultery, or the appearance thereof?

I still miss not sleeping lonely sometimes... .but he's right.  

She humiliated me.  I think most people, certainly not her family,  would say anything.  My decades long friendships would certainly be negatively affected, my supports these past few years.

Still, this intrigues me on the back of my mind... .

So I go back to,  "what's best for the kids?"

What's best for me is what's best for the kids.  A healthy and stable dad.  

[naguma]

 

[GlennT]

Huge respect T! You've really worked hard keeping a stable home for those kids. Did'nt you just advise someone to "back out of the room slowly"?

[Turkish]

Yeah, good advice... .thanks.  Despite crying kids angry at me. Most of the day was cool,  but I'm going to rethink my boundaries. The kids got over it within the hour.  I take what my pediatric dentist told me,  "use distraction." We walked to the 7-11 to get slurpees. Kids are resilient. I told her this in a subsequent message when she asked how they were doing.  Me? I've got to keep centered,  because no one else will do it for me.

[happendtome]

Its good for your self esteem, but anything more? I doubt. But dont listen me, i know that people will do it anyway. More red flags you show them, more definitely they will do it.
So my theory is that you start to think about it and you will get back to her. Keep us updated

[bus boy]

I was emotionally moved while reading your post. You are so right, kids first.

[Rayban]

T

I think the morning out hiking, and then brunch must have brought you back to when things were good.  I say enjoy that, and answer her question to yourself, was she really that much of a bee to you. I think you know the answer.

Has she seeked therapy? What's changes has she made to her life? This is a woman who chose self gratification over her kids ... .she could do it again. You handled things perfectly.  You enjoyed a nice day. Your children are in a nice safe environment.  Bigger home, or better school district could wait. 

She's still married. Do you want to be involved with her unstable ex?

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, that's tough to stay strong and say no. (And you do know it!)

If it helps, I've got a dear friend who is now a year ahead of you on the path you didn't take... .let me summarize the story; you can fill in the details of specific bad behavior your ex would pick... .

Her marriage ended. It was BAD at the end. Physical abuse. Police involved when he left. Just barely avoided him being arrested, because she chose NOT to say to the police things that would have him arrested, and he chose to back down and leave instead of staying (and continuing to threaten).

Over the next ~2 years, she (like you) really worked on good boundaries, and good skills for coping with his mental illness. They (eventually) found a balance where he did a pretty good job of co-parenting, within his limitations (i.e. 1-2 days/week; he couldn't handle more), and their relationship improved a great deal. She liked him, cared for him, and was DONE with any hint of romantic interest in him.

Then life changes gave her an incentive to move back in with him, and she thought she could do a companionate marriage. So she tried.

The abusive behavior started right back up, probably within a week. Her boundaries were much better, so she didn't let it get anywhere near as bad as before... .but it still took maybe 6 months before she got moved out.

After a few more months, things are finally starting to stabilize, getting back to something almost as good as they were before moving back in together.


At risk of beating a dead horse, here's the lesson as it applies to you:

BPD is all about inability to manage feelings, and the closer, more intimate a relationship is, the more intense the feelings are, and the worse her behavior will be, and thus, the better your boundaries and other skills will have to be to compensate.

You have good boundaries today (YAY!) (Like my friend, I might add.) You aren't living with your ex. Those combine to make a workable r/s where you can occasionally spend time together as a family, and have it be good and healthy.

If you let her closer, she will revert toward the behavior she had when you were living together last. Perhaps not quite as bad, but absolutely a strong shift in that direction. (Remember, your boundaries are a lot better than they were then)

[GaGrl]

You have a parental pattern with your ex. I get it... .my DH has always had a parental relationship with his uBPD/NPD ex, and she continues to come to him for advice and respite.

The most recent situation was one in which her current relationship (live-in of almost 15 years) was in danger of imploding due to his misbehavior and her violent reaction. This put her at risk of living alone (she has never lived alone, can't do it), restricting her transportation ( she won't drive in certain situations), and reducing her household income.

So what does she do? Calls DH, who lives 1200 miles away and has been married to me for 11 years, for advice and ends the conversation by proposing that she "comes back to him."

That as an interesting conversation, to say the least. DH says it ended with her acceptance that she had pretty much made her bed and needed to sleep in it.

So, other than the children tugging at her emotions, what other factors are at play?

[RedPill]

Hi Turkish,

Still, this intrigues me on the back of my mind... .

Oh, how I feel you. Despite all the reason you can apply, there it is.

To quote Al Pachino:
https://media.giphy.com/media/B3nATT4FPkb3G/200w.gif

Don't rent space in your head. Listen to your gut instead.
--
RP

[caughtnreleased]

So I go back to,  "what's best for the kids?"

What's best for me is what's best for the kids.  A healthy and stable dad.  

Turkish! I admire your strength and your determination to do the right thing. What's best for the kids is also to see someone be able to put down boundaries when behaviour is unacceptable. You have done that successfully, acted like an adult. I think that is the most important. The other thing, keep looking after yourself, and do things for you. That too is good for the kids. You finding happiness in your life will show them how to find it in their own lives - even under difficult circumstances. Young children will follow examples that are set. They learn by watching you. As a child of a marriage with a parent with BPD, my fathers inability to establish healthy boundaries and allow a horrible marriage has marked me for life - I see most relationships as fake, lies, and loveless. Expressions of kindness and affection seemed like lies to me. How could I see otherwise if this was all I knew. It is only in the last five years of work that I understood that the marriage I grew up in was probably unusual in how loveless it was. I am angry with my father for not having had the strength to stand up to my mother, for having empowered her in her abusive behaviour, as opposed to corrected it, because it shaped me. It shaped me to be cynical and faithless when it comes to love and despite many invitations to receive love I was unable to see them for what they were.

So if you have strength to maintain boundaries and prevent behaviour that is unacceptable, your children will learn this too. If you are able to work towards living a fulfilling life, they will learn this too. Do you want your children to be able to really understand adult love? Then do not go back to a loveless marriage. At least alone you have room for self love, and energy for important things in your life, even room for you to one day find a loving relationship. Going back to a loveless relationship will sap a great deal of your valuable energy. Invest it in places that will give you a good return. There are many such places.

[joeramabeme]

Turkish

I have followed your story for awhile now; this is a big deal. 

"What bothers me is that part of me entertains the idea."

You are  a man with dreams and desires, the appearance that they may be fulfilled should not be something to feel bothered by.  In our marriages/relationships; this is where we got derailed - healthy desires with not so healthy people.  It sounds like you are clear where the red-flags are and where your priorities and boundaries reside.   

I admire the character that you consistently show for yourself which of course is the model that your children will be able to draw upon in their own adult life.

Perhaps I read too deep into your post but it sounded like your ex was paying some respect to your boundaries too, no?

 

[Mutt]

Hi Turk,

I just want to join everyone else and say that you handled that well. A pwBPD don't let you get prepared for major life changes, it happens too quickly for us, I think that that carries it's own traumatic experience. I'm going to image that the kids went through a lot stress and heartbreaking when mom and dad split up. I think that they're thriving because of you, now I just want to propose something to you, i'm not saying that you're going to go through with it, let's say she moves back, you reconcile later, i'm sure that the kids would over the moon that mom and dad are back together, the kids probably had those thoughts, now let's say something similar happens and you split. How do you think that will affect the kids a second time around? I can't do it for that reason, I can't put the kids through that again.

[Pretty Woman]

Turkish, you know I've been on these boards awhile and I've always respected and appreciated your advice. You are in such a good place, a place many of us want to be.

Please don't subject yourself to this again.

I think it's hard when we detach because we tend to forget the bad bad times. She is being extra nice because she wants something.

Don't give her that power. You are doing great and what's in the best interest of your children. You are a wonderful father and they are lucky to have you.

 
PW

[Turkish]

BPD is all about inability to manage feelings, and the closer, more intimate a relationship is, the more intense the feelings are, and the worse her behavior will be, and thus, the better your boundaries and other skills will have to be to compensate.

This is the single, most important thing to remember.  

She's still married,  though seperated. As with me,  she didn't finish one r/s before jumping into another.  It really boils down to the inability to manage emotions. Kids are is distress , so is she, and so was I for a brief moment.  

The kids were mad at me,  but I took them to get Slurpees (an iced drink), walking them around the block. After that,  they were ok. Though I had to go to sleep with them last night,  they were ok, even when I picked them up from the baby sitter. D5 didn't ask to call Mommy. They were happy this morning.  

Still, I was thinking about this all day.  How could it work, if only for financial survival? What if we tried to rekindle? How could it work (it might... .but only for a while).

I think I hold the cards here,  in that it would be easy to pursue this,  given her attachment and desire to be with the kids all of the time.  However, it would be even more messed up in that dynamic. Though she's more aware of her own things,  it doesn't mean that she's changed.

I have.  

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Turkish,

I admire your strength and objectivity with this.  My 3 year old son from a previous ex has been impacted by my r/s and it is my life's work to ensure he only sees 'real love', even if that doesn't mean I ever end up in another r/s.  I can show him how to love himself and it sounds as though that is what you are doing too.  To go back would mean ultimately to subject my gorgeous boy to more of the same behaviours in time and I just can't do that for any reason, financial, emotional or otherwise.  You're an intelligent and experienced man who is clearly a fantastic father figure.  Keep up the great work and continue to be a solid dependable role model to your children.  As they grow up they will thank you for this, even if at times now they can't understand why things are the way they are.  I think all kids with separated parents dream of seeing them back together.  It's not necessarily what's good for them though and they'll appreciate your decisions in their best interests when they are older.

Stay strong.

[Turkish]

She had the kids today and asked me to breakfast before church.  Sure. 

During breakfast, she told me again about wanting to take the kids to Hawaii this summer.  I guess she ran out of options to go with others,  including her brother whom she said she'd take when if he graduated high school. That was 5 years ago.  He has his B.S., but doesn't want to go now.

She asked me if I would go with them.  "I don't want to handle the kids alone." So she doesn't want me,  but rather a nanny.  My BIFF response,  as I dug back into my waffle, "no."

Different than the past year,  I noticed that she wore her engagement and wedding rings.  I read tempted to ask,  but didn't.  As far as I know, she's still proceeding with the divorce. If her H was going to Hawaii,  she would have told me.  I probably should ask how that's going.  She'd tell me. 

I talked to my neighbors this weekend.  The woman's son just moved back on with his ex wife, for the sake of their kids.  They are divorced, but he's made it clear that he'll never remarry her because he doesn't trust her. 

I can't imagine providing such an example to our kids.  That I'm thinking about it,  shoot me now. On the surface,  it would be easier on a lot of ways. However, I don't want our kids growing up with a twisted example of marriage. Ugh. I still feel like Daddy. I also confess that despite it all,  I'm still attracted to her and kind of miss her. 

Fixing my toilet today? I got a spray of water in my face, on the wall, and on the floor.  I found it funny. I fixed it and cleaned everything up.  I told her this morning I need to fix mytoilet. "Are you going to call a plumber?" I can imagine going through that with her here.  In did.  No mercy.  Anger. I can forgive myself for my mistakes. Freedom... .

[Turkish]

So it's been,  what,  2 weeks? She told me last night that she wants to make it work with her husband.

I noticed this past Sunday that she was wearing her wedding ring again. I didn't ask. 

Last night,  we went to a dinner after D5'she ballet recital (thanks for the last minute idea on a school night,  the kids didn't get to bed until after 10, and I had to get them up).

At dinner,  we ended up at the end of the table.  S7 was next to me,  and her relatives were 2 seats down from her,  so I pointed to her ring,  "are you married again?"

She said that she had been thinking about it,  and praying. She said that she made a commitment to him and that she needed to make it work with him.  She is aware of her wrong doings and that she needed to make it work else she'd just carry it forward (into the next r/s). If we didn't have kids, I'd have shined it on,  but I didn't. 

I told her that in my opinion that he set her up to call the cops, consciously or unconsciously,  on Christmas Eve.  They were both grabbing an item out of a box,  he let go, the backside of her first hit his chin. He called 911, then she did. Give me a break.  He should have called when she punched him last summer.  She considered what I said.

To wrap it up,  or told her again that there were no 3 strikes here,  and that the kids absolutely could not witness domestic violence again.  I said that the Christmas Eve incident was a second strike, but that she told me,  and that they moved less than a week later was good. I stopped short of saying "why I didn't report it."

She wasn't mad.  I probably was a little.  I brought up the concept of spousal idolatry (him for sure), a Christian concept. She wanted to hear more.  Then I realized,  "I'm inserting myself where I don't belong, " and I demurred.

After all of this,  she still said, "I still don't understand why you don't want to go with me and the kids to Hawaii." 

I didn't say,  because of all of that,  an hour before,  you jumped down my throat when our son wandered our of the foyer at the recital and you accused me loudly, "why aren't you watching him?" I had said, "it's not only my job to watch him!" He was in the courtyard playing by the fountain.  He's 7, not 3. To her credit,  she did apologize to me at dinner for jumping down my throat. I accepted, and validated. 

So after a few months of calm, the drama is impending.  He told her last summer, "I should call the cops on you,  then the kids will end up with me." That this didn't concern her is concerning. I'm not concerned as it wouldn't play out like he thinks. 

Two days ago,  I was driving the kids to swimming. D5 said,  "S7 and I are going to get married!' Our son said, "no, brothers and sisters can't get married!" I said, "yes,  that's against the law. And it's also against God's moral law." I told them that when they grew up,  they'd find people to marry and that they would find good people.  Our son said, "I don't want to marry someone like Mommy." I asked why, repeating his words back to him to validate. "Because Mommy punched [her husband] and [her husband] didn't call the cops."

I replied, "I know you love Mommy, and I do a little bit too. However.  There are certain behaviours no one should tolerate. And I'm glad that you realize this.  You will understand more when you get older and wet will talk more about these things." He didn't comment more, and D5 didn't say anything.  They were in the back seat.

All in all,  I am confidant on being who I need to be for our kids.  That their mom is so all over the place, truthfully, I sympathize, but her journey is hers. Mine is mine,  and I need to be stable to protect not only myself,  but the innocent.  Back away from her, focus on the kids and myself. Detach.

[Mutt]

Hi Turk,

All in all,  I am confidant on being who I need to be for our kids.  That their mom is so all over the place, truthfully, I sympathize, but her journey is hers. Mine is mine,  and I need to be stable to protect not only myself,  but the innocent.  Back away from her, focus on the kids and myself. Detach.

Well said. What mom's doing is a recipe for disaster, she should know better than this at her age. She doesn't have peripheral vision, she's not seeing the damage or potential damage that she's causing to the kids.

[HopefulDad]

What bothers me is that part of me entertains the idea.  With her income,  I could sell the house and move into a better neighborhood and school district.

Still, this intrigues me on the back of my mind... .

So I go back to,  "what's best for the kids?"

What's best for me is what's best for the kids.  A healthy and stable dad.  

Peace of mind is priceless.  If the cost is lost opportunity to upgrade the home, then so be it.

You made the wise choice.

[caughtnreleased]

Two days ago,  I was driving the kids to swimming. D5 said,  "S7 and I are going to get married!' Our son said, "no, brothers and sisters can't get married!" I said, "yes,  that's against the law. And it's also against God's moral law." I told them that when they grew up,  they'd find people to marry and that they would find good people.  Our son said, "I don't want to marry someone like Mommy." I asked why, repeating his words back to him to validate. "Because Mommy punched [her husband] and [her husband] didn't call the cops."

I replied, "I know you love Mommy, and I do a little bit too. However.  There are certain behaviours no one should tolerate. And I'm glad that you realize this.  You will understand more when you get older and wet will talk more about these things." He didn't comment more, and D5 didn't say anything.  They were in the back seat.

Dear turkish. I want to congratulate you on the extaordinary strength you are showing to your children.  Children intuitively know what is right and what is wrong and naturally gravitate towards healthiness. it is whem they receive message telling them not to trust their judgement and their intuition that things go wrong. When i was little i befriended a neighbour who could not have children. She was the polar opposite of my BPD mother: calm, stable, reliable and repsectful of who i was as a person. I would have been around 7 or 8 when i began to be completely confounded as to why on earth my father would marry and stay witha woman like my mother and not chose a woman like this wonderful neighbour. And for years i was confused until the day my father showed me a picture of my mother in her youth... .She was beautiful. And there i had found my explanation but my opinion of my father sank that day. And while my whole childhood and adolescence he discouraged me from taking on "feminine" behaviours such as wearing makeup etc, his actions said that a woman's appearance is more important than anything else. All that to say is that for a childs well being it is neither looks nor a big house that will give them strength to navigate a world that is filled with messed up people and relationships and be able to move past those people to find those who are capable of love and support. My father denigrated my kind neighbours loving husband because he didnt have a job that my father considered "admirable", (both of them were artists and had jobs that were not considered "careers" essentially telling me that a man who was kind and loving to his wife wasnt good enough. He needed status above all. You are there to validate what your childrens nature and intuition tells them is right and it is one thing to do this through words but so much more powerful to do it through your actions. I would trade social status for a supportive and loving relationship any day. The price you pay in BPD relationship is just not worth it.

[Turkish]

The other night she sent me a text by mistake.  In 2013 this happened,  "hi Love, I'm here on the parking lot,  where are you?" I was at her parent's house with our kids,  visiting her sister who was visiting from out of state.  Needless to say,  I was very angry and hurt.  She was still living with us. 

The other night,  it was,  "Wow! So this is how our marriage is supposed to work?" She was obviously texting with her husband. Unlike the 2013 incident where I played dumb and didn't respond  (I had a chance to bring it up later when she played Waif "I'm sorry like but it's my 'sickness'. This time I did.  ":)id you mean to send this to me?" Here,  I failed. The best response would have been none.  I set this up to be The Parent (persecutor role). At best, "you sent this to me by mistake."

Like forgetting everything I've learned here,  I still played the Parent role. I suggested she get wise counsel about what she was doing and said that she should be honest with her therapist from the beginning (basically accusing her of lying to her T back then which I am sure of given what she was telling me at the time... .and I journaled this). The response: "we need to meet to get our facts straight." I didn't answer.

When she dropped the kids off yesterday,  there was no talk of this. There won't be.  We also lapsed at dinner discussing the past. That was also a mistake. I'm remembering the voice of the navy SEAL who served in Vietnam who told me at 18, "never volunteer information."

I kind of messed up,  but recovered it by asserting boundaries not upon her,  but upon myself.  Nothing good can come off discussing the past, nor of counseling her.  I'm neither her father,  and certainly not her therapist.

I don't see this working between them. As my T said,  "typically,  personalities don't change."  She is in the power position, like the Allies at The Treaty of Versailles. She will punish him.  It's a set up for another war. I need to be Switzerland. 

[Grey Kitty]

Do you think those miss-sent texts were "mistakes on purpose"? or genuine mistakes?

In the first case, I'd agree with no response... .or perhaps one telling her to cut out the crap!

In the second, something like "That wasn't meant for me" or ":)id you intend to sent that to me?" would be appropriate. (And then dropping it if she tries to manufacture drama)

You know how manipulative she is... .what do you think?

[Turkish]

I like to think she's just not paying attention. However, it seems like a hard mistake to make by hitting the wrong text convo. His name and mine don't resemble each other's at all.  Maybe she's just so caught up in the heat of the moment that's she's all thumbs.  Could be that she's just not a good reader, too.

[RedPill]

Could just be a simple slip-up. It doesn't take much to tap the wrong part of a little screen and send something mistakenly, especially when someone is having a disordered episode. It's a jab you didn't need though, whether it was sent on purpose or not.

Love your tagline, Turkish. I need to get that tattooed on my forehead.
-
RP

[Grey Kitty]

I've done it accidentally--multi-tasking, and thinking that the message app is open to the person I'm intending to type at, when it is actually open to reply to a different message. It is completely possible.

Turkish, you lived with her for years. If she would "accidentally" do things like that which were really on purpose when you were together, you would have figured it out sooner or later. Some people do play those sort of manipulative games... .other people don't. That's something that isn't monolithic about pwBPD; you know her style, you know how likely it was a real accident... .act accordingly.

[Turkish]

Saw her twice this past week.  She's not wearing her wedding ring again.  I didn't ask.  Went to an event today with her and the kids.  Kind of a family thing with their sitters. She got a little upset with me at one point,  but I let it slide.  Easy to do not going home to that.  She mentioned wanting to buy a town home because she was sick of moving (3 times since she left 3.5 years ago). She said her lease is up in November. I could move her in.  Charge her $1k/mo, pay off the house in 5 years.  No.  No.  And no. 

[Mutt]

Charge her $1k/mo, pay off the house in 5 years.  No.  No.  And no.  

If she had stayed with you she would have found herself in stability, she had choices and she took risks, you saw this coming from a mile away. I get the impression that you're the most stable person in her life.

[Turkish]

S7 told me Monday night that he (Mommy's H) was moving back in.  

I know it's fantasy, but I wish he'd contacted me.  I'd tell him this old joke:

A man was adrift at sea in a life boat.  He prayed to God for a miracle.  

The second day,  a ship came by.  The captain hailed,  "can we assist you?"

The man on the lifeboat responded, "I'm ok,  The Lord will provide!" The ship moved on.

The third day,  a helicopter flew over,  "can we assist you?" The pilot shouted.

"I'm ok!" The man shouted back, "The Lord will provide!" The pilot flew on and the man kept praying.

A week went by,  and a sailboat pulled astern.  "Hey! You look like you need help,  come aboard!" The man in the raft, weak from thirst and hunger called out,  "I'm ok,  The Lord will provide."

After expiring a few days later,  the man arrived in heaven and met God.  The man asked,  "WI didn't you answer my prayers?" God replied, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more stud you want?"

You'd think an arrest a year ago (I never asked her off he was acquitted of the resisting arrest charge), the times he could have legitimately called the cops on her, Christmas Eve when they called the cops on each other (a miracle one or both weren't taken downtown,  the cops warned them both), if that wasn't enough.  Apparently not.  Nevermind the things in-between of which they both were guilty, misdemeanors if charged, and he taking her phone to keep her from calling for help, a felony.

While their r/s is none of my business,  this won't end well.  They are still the same people. Warnings from the T (D5's T, where she was within an inch of being reported), the cops, and me to both of them (in my BPDF Voice, SET), it's on again.  I felt my anxiety come back,  but it resided yesterday.  Nothing I can do until it hits the fan,  which it will.  Meanwhile,  I'll focus on the kids without alienating.

During the ABA T session Monday,  :)5 was talking about a disturbing nightmare she had.  The T was concerned. I could see the look in her eyes.  :)5's anxiety? 4.5 years... .just when I think I'm free, I realize I have to be ever vigilant. Learning the Tools here is key to dealing with continued contact on order to reduce conflict, but also remain stable.