Fighting with everyone.

[WishIKnew82]

Did your BPD ex fight with everyone at one point or another?
He would always be pissed at someone for small reasons. Get into arguments with anyone and I really mean ANYONE! He was so thin skinned. It was exhausting! Incapable of letting anything slide. Forcing me to read something a million times to see where I was wrong. If I answered incorrectly, he would get pissed some more.
The reason why I bring this up cause I was cleaning out my email and I went into the black hole that are his emails. I can not for the life of me believe that that was my life.

This question is particularly to people who have been NC for quite some time now and had time to reflect.

[balletomane]

I've had no contact with my ex for two years now. He had a pattern of very volatile relationships, and while his behaviour was at its worst with romantic partners, his friendships were often unstable for the reasons you give - the slightest disagreement or upset, real or perceived, and he would be eaten up by rage at the other person. The other person was always in the wrong. Always. I have never heard my ex take responsibility for anything himself. I saw him drop so many people from his life, and he was always adamant that it was their fault. He didn't seem to know how to resolve even a simple disagreement, and his paranoia made it worse - he would accuse people of the most bizarre things. Once he was convinced that two strangers he'd seen in the laundromat wanted to murder him, because he could "see it in their faces", and he got furious with me when I gently tried to persuade him that his anxiety was stirring up thoughts that probably weren't grounded in reality. He was so savage in the things he said that I apologised for suggesting he was irrational. This was a common pattern with us - it got to the point where I would apologise to him even if I thought I hadn't done anything wrong, just to make the shouting stop. At first I was aware that this was a very dodgy and unhealthy game to be playing, but as time passed I actually doubted my own sanity and perceptions, and thought that maybe I was this terrible person who kept doing hurtful things.

But it was never enough. He always wanted people to tell him exactly what they'd done that was so wrong, and if you didn't satisfy him with your explanation, the rage mounted further. He would decide that you were being manipulative and had some sinister ulterior motive for behaving as you had, and that your apology was insincere. He would drag it out for days, weeks, months. It was frightening and exhausting. Exhausting, because he was always moving the goalposts - nothing I ever said to him was right when he was in this mood. Frightening, because he could be extremely cruel and I never knew what might happen next. The only thing that kept me halfway sane was that I could see he behaved this way with other people too, which suggested to me that the pattern was with him. Before we became a couple, he introduced me to someone whom he said was his best friend. A few short months later, and that friend was apparently evil incarnate. There is a whole long list of people whom he was friends with once but now views as the devil.

[cbm419]

Boy does this thread sing to me- esp ballets reply. Mine had less a tendency to get into arguments or open fights w his friends, it was often more him taking advantage of their money, alcohol or weed, constantly say he would make it up to them then disappointing people to the point of snapping at him. When the camels back broke he could not see where he was wrong and would only then openly fight and character assasinate these people to me on the side. By the 3rd or 4th cycle of this, I attempted to gently guide him to see where they were coming from (not even coming to close to suggesting he was wrong) and that made me the enemy too. I just stopped trying and began to validate even the craziest of his suggestions.

One time he was overreacting to accidentally breaking a glass object that was worth a hundred dollars. I compared his reaction to one of these former, now painted black friends, who was a bit of a drama queen. *that* was a huge mistake. I meant it almost as a joke- but it set him on a rage that lasted 12 hours, ruined the next day, and he ultimately went full on psychotic for hours until lack of sleep tuckered us both out.

As for the constant apologies just to avoid escalation - yep. That became my life. It only worked for a short period until he began to ask "WELL, what EXACTLY are you sorry for?" If my answer was not specific enough, or too specific, or whatever- im pretty sure looking back there was never going to be a right answer- it would turn the rage up and add hours to the episode. Eventually I found myself disassociating into silence and just taking the abuse until he was exhausted. If I left the room or asked him to leave for a little while, that triggered abandonment wound stuff and just made it all worse.

Moving goalposts was a constant. I'd point this out and it would confound and confuse him. In fact pointing out any of the crazy in the crazy making behaviors was just such a lose lose.

I the end I found myself suggesting really bad things - I'd offer to take him to a nice dinner (he was less prone to Rage in public, tho it wasn't a fool proof) and then keep ordering him cocktails until he was drunk enough to forget it all - and then it was like nothing ever happened. Yea... .little old me, the recovering alcoholic who goes to AA every day, plying the rages away with booze.  Really really unhealthy.

But indeed- the pop quiz of "what exactly are you sorry for?" Was a constant crap shoot. Looking back i don't know how I did it. I'm glad I found this because I'm having a hard night with him love bombing me with pictures and old letters, he refuses to replace me 8 months since we broke up. Kinda just wish he would. Grateful this fellowship exists here to keep me honest w myself.

Have a great night all!

[Crushedbyac]

yes to the pop quizzes, ugh!  I never thought of that interchange that way, but thats what it was.  My pop-quizzes were always begun with some very cryptic text or comment that was essentially, "I know what you did and you better fess up" followed by "you know what you did" and "im not going to tell you, you can just tell me when you are ready to apologize".

And the "I just know... ." or the "I can just tell... ." or "Im putting it all together now... ." about others, stranger, friends, family... .  also often and endless lists of those doing awful things to him. 

Once I made the mistake of telling him that 'guess what?  you arent that important that everyone wants to spend their time and energy screwing with you for pretty much no reason at all!' (Yes I was over frustrated and shouldnt have said that) but you can guess how that was received!

Ive been NC for 2 months (my demand) and I come here to remind myself why because Im still in the FOG and our brains like to forget the abuse.  This is one of the many reasons.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi crushed,

Reading your last post I feel like we were with the same guy!  That sixth sense he thought he had, the way he put things together and suddenly 'he saw now what was going on... .' etc.  I remember getting a text one night saying 'now you've really f'cked up - it was a long walk for me to see it with my own eyes but worth it'.  I'd not been anywhere or seen anyone other than nipping out for ten minutes to drop my son off at his father's!  He was so suspicious and paranoid, so SURE I was up to something that he was lying to see if he would catch me out and get a confession!  I asked what on earth he was on about the next day and he just said 'oh nothing, forget about it' and carried on like it had never happened... .Deranged.

Regards others I pretty much had exactly the same conversation you did, saying I'm fairly sure he's not top of everyone's priority list to upset for no gain    I can laugh now but it wasn't pretty at the time.  

3 months NC here and the fog is lifting.  Hold your head up.  You're doing great.

Love and light x

[Harley Quinn]

Oh my goodness, I also just remembered that he borrowed my travel mug to take a coffee out one day and go to the local shopping centre.  He took a list of things to pick up and instead came back minus the travel mug, saying 'you're going to be mad at me but I broke it on someone's face'.  

Apparently a guy from the street he'd previously lived on who had been 'trying to cause trouble with him for ages' by threatening him 'for no reason' had crossed paths with him inside the centre.  My ex was convinced he was about to pull something out from his pocket so 'got in there first' and hit him in the face with the travel mug, breaking the handle off in the process.  'I'll buy you a new one... .'  Never did, of course.  Luckily for myself (and the face he hit) it wasn't solid gold or anything. He was asked by the police to attend the station to answer to a public order charge but the other guy didn't press any charges.  Probably too afraid of what he'd be hit with next I'd imagine.  This was someone he'd previously gotten on with great and considered a friend and one of many he turned on or cut out of his life in a heartbeat.  Geez I can't believe I'd forgotten this.

Love and light x

[Crushedbyac]

HQ, yes! But i have never been sure if he was willfully lying to get something "to stick" or if he really believed he saw or knew something based on insignificant real detail that he spun up into a story he really did believe.  I have always felt it was the latter, with me and also what I saw with others.  There were always some real very unconnected details that were true, that he connected and evolved into the delusion but the real details were the "proof".

One example (of too many) was, he knew I had a cousin that lived in a very large state in the midwest (Ive never beento visit or to that state).  He also knew one of his relatives (that Ive never met) went to that state for a "funeral".  Therefore, I was having an affair with his relative, of course!  "Cant you see how it obviously connects!"  , ugh! Infuriating and beyond frustrating to try to have these conversations (if you can call them that, mostly just being called names and yelled at).

Sometimes the things he said he "knew"  and of course werent true (once I finally got some idea of what the issue was (hours, days... .)), were terrifying.  Things he swore that happened, people he said had told about the "truth about me (I didnt know anyone he knew) were so blatantly lies, but that would mean it was malicious, not just the BPD or delusions.  To make up meetings with people and "proof" the PI had (of course could never show me the "proof" from the PI).  Its unfathomable to me that he was so willfully deceitful.  Its hard to believe and painful anyone would purposely do that knowing how hurtful it was.

[Harley Quinn]

I suspect that with friends, family (whom he disowned - even decided he plans to change his name to disconnect from them completely - and if we married declared he would take my surname) and partners, his fear of abandonment was so severe that he would be readying himself for the proof all the time that it was coming - because he KNEW it was.  Sad thing is he would create a self fulfilling prophecy.  Either he'd push people to the point where they'd walk or else would 'get in there first' by running from the relationship to try to maintain some control.  Very sad.  How awful it must be to live like that - in such terror of something happening that you're always seeking the evidence of it and either coming up with a wild tale that (as you say) whilst being made of cobbled together random facts is total nonsense, or you end up forcing the inevitable to happen because you're so sure it's always going to.  

The only way to prevent the cycle is to get the help and engage with long term treatment but for my ex that would mean admitting he doesn't actually know everything that's going to happen, wouldn't it?  Of course he knows everyone is really against him and will let him down eventually.  That's all he's ever known in his world because that's his view of how things have panned out in all his life experiences.  He did try to pursue treatment yet the same thing just happened with the mental health professionals.  Once they lost his trust all bets were off.  One was pinned up against a wall by his shirt collar... .A female therapist was told if she were a man he'd have knocked her out.  This because she explained something to him which he'd asked to have explained and he didn't like the rationale.  Not a recipe for success.   

Love and light x  

[Crushedbyac]

yes, my ex also started to get some help (not necessarily for BPD, just in general) but as soon as the T hit too close to home or suggested he may be disordered or hold the responsibility, he was quickly turned on.  Of course at that point I was also linked into the conspiracy (since it all happened at same time I was detaching) although I have no connection at all to the T (although he claim to have "proof" I was "working with the T... .".  Now its even escalated with the T that ex claims to be mounting a lawsuit for malpractice against him because of all the stuff he "knows" and has "found out".  I have no idea about his T or what went on, so maybe it is or isnt true that he was a bad T, but from experience, Im willing to go on a limb and bet its just more of his paranioa (100% true to him) or its just blatant lies to get me upset.  And since Ive not done any of what he says he has "proof" of, it either doesnt exist or he physically has fabricated something, which is more disturbing than I would like to consider. But at this point, where he is so hurt and angry, Im not sure how far he will go to "get even with anyone (me)".

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Wish,

Just wondering if your ex worked?  I found that the theme continued in employment too.  My ex worked in retail and bounced around from one job to another after being fired for kicking off with managers, colleagues and customers.  His choice of profession surprised me to say the least!  But then again for someone so volatile and paranoid there aren't many ideal jobs... .

Crushed, as you know the truth the likelihood is any mud wouldn't stick.  I was told that money he'd had paid into my account (and we'd agreed would go towards the repairs on my mobile he'd smashed) he was claiming back from my bank and filing charges against me for defrauding him.  I did checks and security on my account was increased but I was assured that nobody would be able to get any information in branch to even confirm I held an account there, let alone anything else.  Needless to say the police haven't been banging my door down... .

Love and light x

[balletomane]

yes to the pop quizzes, ugh!  I never thought of that interchange that way, but thats what it was.  My pop-quizzes were always begun with some very cryptic text or comment that was essentially, "I know what you did and you better fess up" followed by "you know what you did" and "im not going to tell you, you can just tell me when you are ready to apologize".

And the "I just know... ." or the "I can just tell... ." or "Im putting it all together now... ." about others, stranger, friends, family... .  also often and endless lists of those doing awful things to him. 

I read those quotations from your ex in my ex's voice. "You know damn well why I'm angry," was his usual starter (after he'd turned monosyllabic and palpably hostile, which led me to start asking what was wrong). If I didn't agree that I knew the reason, and give the reason, he would declare that I was lying and become even angrier with me for lying. He would start to see sinister purpose in my supposed lies. If I played along and tried to guess the reason and apologise for it, my guesses were never right and my apologies were never enough, and he would see sinister and manipulative intent in this too. It reminded me of a twisted version of Rumpelstiltskin. Cbm's description of the "What EXACTLY are you sorry for?" is spot on. My heart still speeds up when I see that phrase.

One example (of too many) was, he knew I had a cousin that lived in a very large state in the midwest (Ive never beento visit or to that state).  He also knew one of his relatives (that Ive never met) went to that state for a "funeral".  Therefore, I was having an affair with his relative, of course!  "Cant you see how it obviously connects!"  , ugh! Infuriating and beyond frustrating to try to have these conversations (if you can call them that, mostly just being called names and yelled at).

This was how my ex broke up with the woman before me. They moved in similar social circles, connected to the LGBT community, and one day she went to a bar with a large group of friends and was introduced to an ex of his there. She had never met this ex before, only heard him tell horrible stories about her. After the night out, she told him, "Your idiot ex was there." He exploded at her. As she's bisexual, he immediately decided that she had something to hide and she'd been flirting with his ex (he could "just tell". Then he jumped to thinking that she'd cheated on him with the ex or was at least planning to cheat. The proof? It was obviously deceitful of his current girlfriend to call his ex an idiot after she'd spent the night flirting with her, which just goes to show how manipulative and unsafe she must be! Of course this isn't proof at all, just circular reasoning, but it was rock-solid evidence in his mind. Now I suspect he was panicked that she might get his ex's side of the story, so he hit the self-destruct button.

I'm not bisexual myself, but he insisted I was and got very angry at me for not "admitting" it - he was so vicious and venomous over this issue that I was actually reduced to tears and started to compulsively apologise. I later found out that he routinely insists that every straight women he dates is really bi, presumably so he can give free range to his paranoia and accuse us of cheating on him with everyone, not just men. He was convinced I was cheating on him with a close female friend. I didn't cave and start apologising for this imaginary affair, because the idea was too ludicrous even for his relentless malice and verbal aggression to dislodge, so he got right up in my face like a doctor doing a glaucoma test and told me to look in his eyes because he would be able to tell from those if I was lying or not. I remember sitting there feeling emotionally bruised and so anxious I was shaking. Luckily he decided I was telling the truth, and that night he was very kind and loving to me. I was so relieved and I felt lucky to have such a great guy. Now I see him as someone who constantly inflicted third-degree burns and then applied the soothing cream, in a sick but addictive pattern.

[Stolen]

xW did not just fight with everyone - she absolutely hated them.  Her black and white painting was what led me to finally discover BPD.  And this was clearly a family trait - the people at work, the family that owned the deli, the neighbors, the teachers and administrators,  everyone at one time or another.  I was sucked right into the swirl - I remember being baffled about who I was supposed to hate, and for what... .

And when I finally gave up my policy of appeasement, and refused to hate people who I loved, then it was my turn. 

[RedPill]

Did your BPD ex fight with everyone at one point or another?

Yes. Everyone. A thousand times yes.

Father: estranged. Sister 1: estranged. Sister 2: estranged. Father-in-law (who gives her endless financial support and will give her his estate when he passes): painted black then white when convenient. My parents: don't like her. Best friend: doesn't give her enough attention. Supervisors, bosses, and coworkers: don't respect her and treat her badly. Other drivers on the road: object of road rage. Hobo at 7-11: screamed at when he approached her car. Finally me: all of the above.
--
RP

[WishIKnew82]

This is so insane. I feel like every single one of your stories is mine. I wasn't detailed cause I wanted to hear from you but my God. Every one of you wrote some part of my story, some of you in details! This is some scary stuff. Their coping and pop quiz methods and fight marathons to make you see what you did wrong. Ofcourse it was exhausting. I remember especially one absurd moment where he was mad at me for some reason and telling me how wrong I was and he was going on and on and on. When I would tell him how he would go on and on and on he would get EXTREMELY mad about that as well and go on on some more to make me see why it was wrong for me to say that was going on and on, crazy bananas. Anyway it was night time and I was just listening to him for hours on end until 3 in the morning or so and then I just started to fall asleep. Because the room was dark he didn't notice I was asleep so when I woke up, HE WAS STILL GOING AT IT! I slept for a hour or so!... I find it hilarious now but it was so painful at the moment.

Thank you all for responding! I really appreciate it. I will react to each and everyone of you later when I have more time! Thank you.