Emotional incest between EXpwBPD and his 25yr old daughter

[Depression = 72% of members]

The constant contact (first text of every day, last text of every night and numerous throughout the day) and odd emotional support between my ex and his adult daughter never felt right to me, but I could never put my finger on why.  They did not meet each other until she was 18 after her mother passed away.  So, I always assumed there was likely some over compensation going on.  He knew she existed from a one night stand with a friend, but it is his story that her mother refused to let him have a relationship with her and suggested it would cause more harm than good within their family dynamics so he bowed out until it made sense after her passing to reach out to his daughter.

When we met he shared that his ex-wife used to accuse him of treating his daughter like a mistress which he thinks is completely ridiculous and I was conditioned to believe was part of the crazy-making and drama created by his ex-wife.

However, 18 months into our relationship, my EXpwBPD stopped going to therapy with me after our therapist told him that it was completely healthy for us to go on a cell phone free vacation together to get away from our constant work and family demands.  In fact, she encouraged us to do so.  Even after trying to negotiate a compromise that we both could feel comfortable with, he broke up with me for the first time before we concluded our session.  Needless to say we never went on that or any other vacation with just the two of us.  

As the relationship progressed, whenever he was confronted with boundary concerns he used to try tell me that I was jealous of her and had issues with her.  I would attempt to reassure him that I did not feel that way at all, in fact, I adored her and loved her as my own.  His two other children, an adult son (living on his own) and adolescent son (home with us), would often complain of my ex's very obvious pre-occupation with their half sister.  It had become such a touchy subject the boys refused to talk to him about it.

I am starting to realize the pressure I put on myself to be supportive and available to his son at all costs is likely due to the fact that my ex was emotionally neglectful and absent to him.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar to this?  I am experiencing quite a bit of resentment regarding this experience.

[Jillian1231]

The constant contact (first text of every day, last text of every night and numerous throughout the day) and odd emotional support between my ex and his adult daughter never felt right to me, but I could never put my finger on why.  They did not meet each other until she was 18 after her mother passed away.  So, I always assumed there was likely some over compensation going on.  He knew she existed from a one night stand with a friend, but it is his story that her mother refused to let him have a relationship with her and suggested it would cause more harm than good within their family dynamics so he bowed out until it made sense after her passing to reach out to his daughter.

When we met he shared that his ex-wife used to accuse him of treating his daughter like a mistress which he thinks is completely ridiculous and I was conditioned to believe was part of the crazy-making and drama created by his ex-wife.

However, 18 months into our relationship, my EXpwBPD stopped going to therapy with me after our therapist told him that it was completely healthy for us to go on a cell phone free vacation together to get away from our constant work and family demands.  In fact, she encouraged us to do so.  Even after trying to negotiate a compromise that we both could feel comfortable with, he broke up with me for the first time before we concluded our session.  Needless to say we never went on that or any other vacation with just the two of us.  

As the relationship progressed, whenever he was confronted with boundary concerns he used to try tell me that I was jealous of her and had issues with her.  I would attempt to reassure him that I did not feel that way at all, in fact, I adored her and loved her as my own.  His two other children, an adult son (living on his own) and adolescent son (home with us), would often complain of my ex's very obvious pre-occupation with their half sister.  It had become such a touchy subject the boys refused to talk to him about it.

I am starting to realize the pressure I put on myself to be supportive and available to his son at all costs is likely due to the fact that my ex was emotionally neglectful and absent to him.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar to this?  I am experiencing quite a bit of resentment regarding this experience.

[Mutt]

Hi Jillian123,

It sounds like splitting, I think she's split white. You mentioned your expwBPD, how does his D treat him?

[Jillian1231]

His daughter is the one who generally initiates the daily text messages.  Actually, when I moved in I asked if it was possible to have his phone on silent during the overnight hours because her morning message would consistently wake us up at 5:30/6am every morning and we did not have to get up until 7am.  (My Ex obliged and has brought it up as a sacrifice he has made for me on numerous occasions.)  She starts by telling him "good morning", then will check in on him and ask how his day is going.  He will tell her the details of his schedule for the day, where he will be, who he will be with.  She gets upset with him if she does not hear from him for any length of time and will accuse him of ignoring her.  As he gets into bed, every night, he will be sure to text her "good night love ya bunches", if not engage in a longer exchange debriefing about their day while I am cleaning up and closing down the house for the night.

During a business trip to Vegas, our first night there, we ended up being up all night drinking and dancing and he texted her when we returned to our room to tell her what we had done and when we were going to bed.  This happened on every trip we ever took.

We have gone to a family cottage twice (where we don't have good cell phone service, if at all) for a couple of days with his other children and she was unable to join us.  Both times, she became upset and passive aggressive with him upon our return for lack of contact and feeling left out.

In person, she has been very childlike in his presence, jumping on him, wrestling and tickling him.  Although sometimes, the interaction is more age appropriate, especially when she has a boyfriend around.  She has called him while drunk on numerous occasions, he finds this funny, and she proclaims her love for him and tells him he is her best friend and he tells her the same.

In hindsight, I recall him texting her in the middle of our first date.  He took a picture of our meal and sent it to her.  She asked him who he was with and he said a friend.  She asked if it was "a P friend or a V friend?"

Another dynamic that is interesting is that he hides and or misrepresents things with her if it paints him in a negative light.  For example, Child Protective Services was called by the school of his youngest son after he raged at him one morning and I am certain she knows nothing about that investigation... .among other things.  Seems like that would come up in their daily convos.  They have never lived together, not sure that she has ever seen his mask slip.

[Grey Kitty]

Technically, I'm going to say that this doesn't quite qualify as emotional incest... .because there was no contact or connection to her until she was an adult.

What I think of as emotional incest involves forcing a minor child into an adult role with the parent.

He's his formal/familial role with her more like a mentor, or the new spouse of a parent that comes along when the daughter is already an adult--not truly a step-parent.

But that is a minor technicality regarding the phrase emotional incest.

The behavior between the two of them is inappropriate, kinda creepy, and since he's a generation older than she is, he is the one who really ought to know better, and not let himself get pulled into this toxic mess, even if she tries to do it.

So you have every reason to be pissed at him over it. Good thing you're done with him, and it isn't your problem anymore, at least!

If you want to read about a better way of dealing with a similar situation... .one that I'm pretty sure your ex wouldn't be capable of, check out this thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=306273.0;all

[Mutt]

Hi Jillian1231,

She could have had a little more empathy by putting herself in your shoes with sending the text messages early in the morning. It sounds like both have poor boundaries and I don't know what to say about the behavior other than I think that it's inappropriate too.

Something else sticks out for me with having to be in constant contact - lack of object constancy where a person has a difficult time holding a mental image of a loved one, a person that lacks object constancy tends to be clingy and suffocating. It sounds like she could have BPD traits.

[LightnessOfBeing]

It certainly sounds like this could very plausibly qualify clinically as emotional incest. The fact that he didn't raise her doesn't necessarily negate the definition; quite possibly the only difference that makes is that if he had, you'd just have been seeing this creepy dynamic for 18 years, instead of just a few. What makes an interpersonal relating emotional incest is the dynamic combined with familial relation, and the dynamic is there, as is the consanguinity. (So for instance, pwBPD can and - often do - engage in this dynamic with unrelated people, in which case, it's enmeshment/codependence; a different term for essentially the same behavior.) On a personal note, I can only say to all of the behaviors with her that you list here, gross.

There are actually several posts about this squicky paradigm on the boards - pwBPD engaging in emotionally incestuous/enmeshed relationships with their children is apparently pretty common. My BPDh had one with his mother, which he's now recreating with my five year old stepson. Because of the emotional void in herself, his mother enmeshed him as a child, thereby creating an adult with an emotional void that he then seeks to fill through emotional incest; a despairing cycle. Patricia Love's "The Emotional Incest Syndrome" is a decent read on the subject. Resentment is a perfectly natural response to the situation. But you're on the Exing board, so good for you! 

[Jillian1231]

What about the fact that she lost her mother?  His rationale has always been that he feels obligated because he is the only one she has.  However, she happens to be blessed with a wonderful support system.  To be honest if she were engaging in the same behaviors with her mother, I would find it equally unhealthy.

I am on the Exing board per his desire.  I left him after a physical assault, he concluded the relationship, engaged in recycle for a couple of months until I cut him off after I learned he was knowingly and intentionally creating crisis and chaos in our life, while attempting blame me and hold me accountable for his terrorizing behavior.  It has truly been a psychological nightmare.  He completely lacks insight and self-awareness.  Not surprisingly, I have discovered that BPD traits exist in all members throughout both of our families... .some more than others.

[Grey Kitty]

What about the fact that she lost her mother?  His rationale has always been that he feels obligated because he is the only one she has.  However, she happens to be blessed with a wonderful support system.  To be honest if she were engaging in the same behaviors with her mother, I would find it equally unhealthy.

That is the key--this is not a healthy way to relate to an adult child. It is all kinds of messed up. It doesn't matter who he is to her--he shouldn't be participating in it, even if she is behaving that way!

The idea that as the only parent she has left, he has an obligation toward her has some validity. But that obligation is to be a good, healthy parent--not an obligation to do things which enable her, mess her up, and hold her back!

Instead, he's a mess, and he's making things worse for her... .and if you did let him close to you again, would resume making things worse for you too!