Anyone struggle with obligations of marriage even though it was broken?

[HopinAndPrayin]

With my STBXHwBPD, I knew something was deeply, deeply wrong.  I put protections in place so we didn't end up in financial ruin (I managed our finances and had access to his emails so I could see when he had obligations due that could impact us financially).  There were strong boundaries and rules throughout to keep me safe and healthy, although I wasn't always strong enough in the chaos of the moment to feel like defending those boundaries.  It has a way of wearing on you.  In the end, I felt very trapped by my beliefs about marriage.

Like so many of us, things were ok (with a handful of red flags before) but then really and drastically changed the day we got married.  I mean no judgment to anyone who doesn't feel this obligation, but for me, there is a real commitment with those vows.  It means until death do us part and in sickness and in health.  It was so obviously clear that he was sick.

By his running out again, I feel like he let me off the hook.  He broke his vows.  How is it I couldn't see he was breaking them before with all the chaos, lying, blamestorming, porn (I look at that as cheating and was clear it was a dealbreaker, but found out after the fact that it was his favorite hobby), smearing, silent treatments... .I married an emotional 3 year old, who was never capable of committment?

Each time I would think, I can't do this anymore, I need to get out, that darn "sickness or in health" would pop up and I would go back and read about how I needed more patience or empathy or to bring the emotionality of the situation down.  No, he needed to get through his denial and get to work on fixing this.  He could never get there and I suppose, I couldn't either.

How have you handled the obligation that comes with those vows with a SO with BPD is so incapable of honoring it?

[roberto516]

Each time I would think, I can't do this anymore, I need to get out, that darn "sickness or in health" would pop up and I would go back and read about how I needed more patience or empathy or to bring the emotionality of the situation down.  No, he needed to get through his denial and get to work on fixing this.  He could never get there and I suppose, I couldn't either.

How have you handled the obligation that comes with those vows with a SO with BPD is so incapable of honoring it?

We weren't married but the minute i knew I loved her I made the same commitment. I was raised by some pretty good people who taught me to be loyal and to help others, and to not give up. So yes. Whenever I wanted to leave I felt like I'd be abandoning someone who I made a promise to, and who I loved. And trust me, I spent hours finding articles on how to be a better communicator, how to develop empathy more, how to re create sparks in a relationship, etc. I began to save my money to put away for an early retirement for her as it was what she wanted. It's what her dad did for her mom. I stopped telling her how to spend her money because I realized I was being controlling so I took matters into my own hands, and did what I could do to help her.

Finally I did leave. But I didn't want to. I truly hoped that she would see I was serious about needing this to be a partnership. My communication of that never made a difference so i thought I needed to show her I was serious with actions. This was before I knew she had BPD traits, and the leaving fulfilled the abandonment and that was all she wrote when she completely cut me off.

But just as you told me on my post. Someone, if we want it, is going to come along and realize that the people like us are a real find in this world. We just kept fighting for someone who couldn't put work in, or see the real love we had for them.

[snowwhite]

Remember that obligation is part of the FOG these people use to try to manipulate us.
Years ago I worked for an investment banking firm in San Francisco. Over time I discovered some of the senior partners were involved in a number of dishonest business dealings. I have felt a strong loyalty and duty to those I work for. But I had to see my real obligation and loyalty had to be to principles of right and wrong, not to people.
People with BPD will pressure you to give up your first obligation, to yourself. You deserve a life of integrity and dignity. If you cannot get them into a mental hospital, you must leave. This is as much for their sake as yours.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey H&P, Did you regard yourself as a prisoner of your marriage vows?  If so, I would question whether your loyalty may have been misplaced.  I took my marital vows seriously, too, yet don't think those vows were a license for abuse.  That's my boundary.  Abuse is unacceptable and one's marriage vows don't make it OK, in my view.

LuckyJim

[AwakenedOne]

How have you handled the obligation that comes with those vows with a SO with BPD is so incapable of honoring it?

I stuck by my wife for 4 years. The last year was hellish. I loved her. But to me even more importantly, I took vows to God in the wedding ceremony. So if she hadn't committed adultery or the other biblical offense against God a person was stuck it seemed. I did not accept any of the hell she brought to the plate which ranged from her destroying property to her luckily not killing me, us, or herself. There were repercussions and expectations of change and promises made and broken in the process. Hours spent in conversations. Those conversations of husband and wife were the biggest waste of time in my entire life. Watching the grass grow would be a more productive thing than anything that came from that "communication". At times there still seemed like a glimmer of hope and with God all things would be possible. I think it maybe boils down to God doesn't help those who don't help themselves. As far as commitments goes with pwBPD, I'd guess most at least don't think out honoring commitments. They understand what commitments are though. But commitments are something that others do or something like that type of disordered logic. There were so many warning signs a lot of us missed. She was more focused on cake decorations and cosmetic things for the wedding than our vows although she professed her undying love to me privately. As far as the marriage commitment goes, we had a very cold and horrible end where she just muttered something and glared and turned her back and walked away. We never shared one word after that.

The main reason I'm taking time out to respond to your post is to offer this suggestion to you -> Do not be ashamed of sticking by your spouse. I am not. I see it sort of like I was in the Superbowl and I poured my heart into the game but still lost. At least I can be proud of the effort even though I fumbled the ball some because I am not a perfect robot player and that's ok. I can sleep at night peacefully. Sometimes I wonder how can she even look at herself in the mirror with all that went down.

[HopinAndPrayin]

Hey H&P, Did you regard yourself as a prisoner of your marriage vows? 

Great question.  I wouldn't say prisoner, but I would say I looked at that vow as a promise from me to God about my partner.  And I'm Catholic, so there's a lot of weirdness around what you should stay, tolerate, and pray to change in the faith.  Many priests believe you should stay married to an active alcoholic and pray for God to turn their hearts.  To me, I looked at it as a lesson learned around being more selective with choosing, but once I had chosen, it was a promise I needed to keep. 

After the break-up I did some reading about the requirements for annulment in the Catholic Church, there are a number of reasons that I could have used based on his psychological state. 

Insufficient use of reason (Canon 1095, 10)
You or your spouse did not know what was happening during the marriage ceremony because of insanity, mental illness, or a lack of consciousness.

Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties (Canon 1095, 20)
You or your spouse was affected by some serious circumstances or factors that made you unable to judge or evaluate either the decision to marry or the ability to create a true marital relationship.

Psychic-natured incapacity to assume marital obligations (Canon 1095, 30)
You or your spouse, at the time of consent, was unable to fulfill the obligations of marriage because of a serious psychological disorder or other condition.

I was so in survival mode during, I couldn't pull myself out enough to get perspective on how bad it was.  So, in truth, not a prisoner, but obligated by myself to keep a promise to my higher power.  Lesson learned: God wants us all to be loved.  You can not make a legitimate vow with someone who is unable to keep it.

[HopinAndPrayin]

... .to me even more importantly, I took vows to God in the wedding ceremony.

Totally agree with where you're coming from.  That's how I looked at it as well.

The main reason I'm taking time out to respond to your post is to offer this suggestion to you -> Do not be ashamed of sticking by your spouse. I am not. I see it sort of like I was in the Superbowl and I poured my heart into the game but still lost. At least I can be proud of the effort even though I fumbled the ball some because I am not a perfect robot player and that's ok. I can sleep at night peacefully. Sometimes I wonder how can she even look at herself in the mirror with all that went down.

Thank you.  This really resonated with me today.  I too left it all on the field.  There truly was nothing more I could do.  At the end of the day, I deserve to be the recipient of the loyalty I gave.  Thank you for the advice.

[RedPill]

I think many of us continued into extra innings because of the sense of obligation in the marriage. I am not a religious man, so God wasn't a factor in my vows. I was also pre-programmed to keep going because of my upbringing and low self-esteem.

I can think of two other incidents that fed the obligation monster. The first was having an unplanned pregnancy and abortion in the first six months of our r/s. That experience set the obligation hooks deeply. The next was attempting to break up about two years later. My gut was telling me to get out, but she managed to reel me back in. Then she used the fact that I tried to break up with her as ammo later on.

As I continued to throw myself at the wall of her unhappiness to no effect, I grew desensitized and closed off. There were eggshells everywhere and eventually I shut down. But so didn't have the information about BPD. As my T says, I didn't know what I didn't know."

[Lucky Jim]

Friends, I'm w/you RedPill, H&P and Awakened One.  I left it all on the field, too, and barely crawled out of the game.  I suspect most of us Nons stay way too long, but that's due to our strength and conviction that we can overcome this terrible disorder.  We are more resilient than our pwBPD, though our loyalty is often misplaced.  My T asked me if I thought I had tried everything?  I replied, Yes.  She said, I think so, too.     That was highly unusual on the part of my T because she rarely if ever shared her personal opinions and it proved a turning point for me.

LuckyJim

[roberto516]

Friends, I'm w/you RedPill, H&P and Awakened One.  I left it all on the field, too, and barely crawled out of the game.  I suspect most of us Nons stay way too long, but that's due to our strength and conviction that we can overcome this terrible disorder.  We are more resilient than our pwBPD, though our loyalty is often misplaced.  My T asked me if I thought I had tried everything?  I replied, Yes.  She said, I think so, too.    That was highly unusual on the part of my T because she rarely if ever shared her personal opinions and it proved a turning point for me.

LuckyJim

This is what I am in a conflict about. There were some areas where I could have done better. But I have to accept the fact that it was far too late. I had already been viewed as someone who had disappointed her and my depression after my grandpop probably didn't help (as she probably mirrored that depression and got depressed herself). I have to come to the actual realization that pending me being happy around her all the time (unless i could tell her it was someone else), never wanting to talk about us, or just doing whatever she wanted at all times without the expectation of any love or care in return then it could have worked. Sometimes it really does help to type.

But I did give this woman my life. I can stand proud knowing that I changed many behaviors from my first destructive relationship. I didn't control her, I wasn't jealous, I actually supported her goals and, most importantly, I tried my best to actually work on relationship issues to improve the situation. She was upset I wasn't more social around her family; so I did. She was upset that I had stopped sleeping in the bed all the time (I changed that). She was upset I didn't show enough attention and love to her dog (I changed that). And I didn't give up. Everytime I wanted to give up I reminded myself that I would be fleeing until I just had too much. All it took was the 2 weeks of separation when she asked me to come over to kick in the object constancy problems and that all she wrote. Deep down I know that was probably my brain actually trying to help me. It's just a real shame that what she always wanted from a partner is what she had with me. But it wouldn't have mattered. She will probably try harder for someone who is rich who can spoil her to no end  

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Roberto, You're human, and so am I, so Give yourself a break!  I doubt anything you could have done better would have changed the outcome, because in my view most BPD relationships are not built to last.  The abuse and stress on the Non becomes too great over time.  At least that's what happened to me. 

LJ

[roberto516]

Hey Roberto, You're human, and so am I, so Give yourself a break!  I doubt anything you could have done better would have changed the outcome, because in my view most BPD relationships are not built to last.  The abuse and stress on the Non becomes too great over time.  At least that's what happened to me. 

LJ

Eh I know that to a part. I really don't want to hijack this thread but I never actually really tried to change communication patterns. At times I did when I told her I was upset. But then she would sulk. I'd hold onto my anger as it had nowhere to go until the time I was actually telling her was when I'd be angry and probably came off as accusatory/blaming. At times I just wanted to look inward and relax when I was angry so I didn't have to tell her. But then she'd pester, "Why are you upset?" I'd say I just needed some quiet time. "Oh alright... .is it about me?" I'd say no and I just needed some time to recharge my batteries/be quiet. "Oh okay" 5 minutes later "Are you angry with me?"

But you know all that I need to know? Before our third couples counseling session she looked at me while she was sitting on the couch and said "I don't want to go. It's too much work." So could it have lasted no matter what I did? No... .it's the truth. She wasn't willing to put the work in that we needed in order to learn better communication. All she wanted was for things to go back to the way they were but it was on me to make that happen. She'd ask me about plans and I'd give ideas but she would always change that plan to something different. Then ask me why I never took the initiative. Then I'd tell her how I felt. She'd say "Well I don't want that. I want you to make plans for us." Until I did again. Then she'd change the plan or refuse to do it. It's crazy. Absolutely the toughest thing I have ever had to go through in my life for sure.

And that's all I'll say. Don't want to take over the thread with a topic that's different. Thanks though Lucky Jim.

[jonmnemonic]

H&P, I want to commend you for your desire to remain faithful to your marriage vows.  When people get married they're excited about the "better, richer, and health" part of the vows but really struggle when faced with "worse, poorer, and sickness."  God does give us grace to go through these trials even when the end result is not what we expect.  The truth is we are completely helpless without God and without Him we couldn't even lift a finger to think that we were doing something.  He does the heavy lifting and gives us only what we're able to handle.  I would encourage you to read what God Himself says about marriage and divorce (Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7).  Culture has crept into the church and added permissible reasons for divorce and some churches are giving counsel that contradicts the Word of God.

For the reasons God permits divorce, we should still seek restoration of the marriage; however, that requires repentance on the part of the offender and forgiveness on the part of the offended.  Where there is persistent unrepentant sin in the marriage, you are only enabling your spouse by not taking drastic action.  It might seem counter intuitive but sometimes the most loving thing you can do is end the marriage.  In cases of other spousal misconduct, separation would sometimes be highly recommended but then we're told to stay single and not divorce.

I'm speaking from a place of personal experience and went through a similar struggle where I couldn't justify divorcing my wife because of my vows and convictions.  It took me a long time but essentially I came to a place where I stopped trying to please/appease my wife and started behaving the way I should have in a "normal" relationship.  I had to stop enabling my wife and her bad behavior.  God has been good and faithful through this whole ordeal and I really consider it to be Him rescuing me because I didn't have the strength to do it on my own.

[purekalm]

How have you handled the obligation that comes with those vows with a SO with BPD is so incapable of honoring it?

Like you and the others, I also struggled with the vows I made. I literally meant to be with him forever. I knew bad things could happen. When I married him he had back issues and growing up with my dad having back issues for a different reason I knew some of how it could go. What I didn't expect, however, was him doing a 180 and treating me so completely awful.

I do have legitimate grounds for divorce as he has cheated on me and has found someone else currently. Still, instead of destroying our marriage and his fatherhood, I was willing to make it work with some stipulations like him getting help for issues he had never properly addressed. He half hearted it and one day told me, honestly for once, that marriage and a child was what he always wanted, but he didn't realize how much work it would be. I could tell then how it would end, but I stubbornly held on trying everything I could to figure it out.

In the end he left to 'get his head on straight' but asked for a divorce one month before our eight year anniversary. It was difficult for me to accept at first for my faith and so many other reasons but I knew it wasn't my problem. It could work if he put in his share, but if he refused, like he did, then what am I supposed to do?

  This isn't easy.

[StayStrongNow]

Great post, thank you everyone. I really relate to a lot of you. I only want to state that I stayed in as long as I could that I could honestly say to myself that I tried the best I could. But the truth is once you fall from the pwBPD graces and that idealization stage to devaluation then to being discarded, you reached the point of no return to the idealization stage. You will always be the trigger and the blame for all that has gone wrong to the pwBPD.

Once the splitting from white to black there is no way back to white. It's over and you just have to pick up the pieces, stand back up and slowly walk on.

The silver lining is today the replacement "made a wish" to marry my uxBPDw in front of my kids today as they met him for the first time. Silver lining you ask? First I am at the point I don't care about her and her new bf but I do care if the x and the new bf hurt my kids. Two, the x and bf are living their life right out of the BPD playbook. Obviously as the 3rd replacement in a year, this bf is in the idealization phase but there is no doubt she'll do a repeat as soon as it gets hot in the kitchen or until he or the uxBPDmil run out of money to support her other addictions such as shopping.

[lovenature]

It was so obviously clear that he was sick.

I could also clearly see that my ex. needed help with her mental health, but unless we know enough about BPD we can't realize the true extent of the illness. Marriage vows are based on at least some understanding of the possible things you will experience together, and of course BOTH partners need to honour their vows for it to work. Without a PWBPD committing to YEARS of therapy, and their partner committing to "managing" the relationship, the most compassionate thing to do is detach.

[Stolen]

I don't think I ever would have moved to divorce her. I took the "in sickness or health" seriously, I knew she was sick.  But she filed divorce, so that was the end of the story.

I (Catholic) went through the annulment process last year, it took a long time and a lot of work, and was final last December.  In a perverse way, it was a real healing process for me - not pleasant, but healing.