so, she's pregnant

[MomMae]

Our BPD dd20, came home for a three day weekend and... .well, she's now pregnant.  With a loser boyfriend.  They live in his mother's garage in a filthy hovel in the middle of nowhere.  She claims she didn't do it on purpose.  I did not accuse her of this, but WE KNOW she did it on purpose.  We have been dreading this moment - we figured the only hope was that she is now so dreadfully skinny that she couldn't get pregnant.  Apparently not so. Over the past year, we have found at least 6 used (negative) pregnancy tests mixed in with the garbage in her room as well as mixed in with the garbage bags full of trash, etc. my husband pulled out of her totalled car a couple of months ago.  And these are just the ones we know of - she has barely lived here in the last year.  If you are on birth control (as she claims, I don't believe her for a second) you do not take a pregnancy tests repeatedly.

I was very rationale about it.  Told her that I would like to see her put her life first, pointed out how she has told us many times what a terrible father her bf is to the toddler her already has... .When he has her for visits, he smokes up in front of her and basically ignores her.  I only know this because my daughter, who loves kids, told us... .and I believe her.  Her BF is a totally horrible person - I have despicable texts he has sent me saved on my phone in case anyone doubts his character (unlikely... .all you have to do is meet him... .)  She needs to get her life in order, not bring another human being into this life of chaos.

She says she hasn't decided what to do.  I doubt that is true, but we are acting like we believe her.  I want her to end the pregnancy.  She is in no position to be a parent.  I think she will keep it; I hope I am wrong.  All of her friends are having or have already had babies (at age 20!), so of course she wants to join the club.  So, going out to buy prenatal vitamins this morning... .just for the sake of the innocent life inside her.
 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Oh my MomMae, I'm so very sorry and understand how you feel.   When you say she has not decided what to do has she been able to explain why she is saying to you she's undecided? While you may not believe her, asking her, listening may help her think through the responsibility she's taking on and what help if any the father will bring? 

WDx

[MomMae]

Thank you, WendyDarling, I will do that.  We are going to sit down and talk this afternoon, and I will definitely try asking her why she "doesn't know" or is undecided about what she wants to do.  She did open up to her sister a bit while they were washing the cars (good to talk while busy doing something else) and she told her that she gets sad when she thinks of the life the child would have, but she also gets sad thinking about not having the child. She also apparently got emotional when her sis said how sad she was that they have not got to do any sister stuff - that sis wants her to come visit her at university next year and she won't have the freedom to do these things if she has a child.

Thank you for replying, WD, and appreciate the empathy and advice. 

MM 

[Huat]

Dear MomMae

You need and deserve the biggest of hugs and here is one from me.   

So many of us have looked forward to having a grandchild to bring us joy in our older years but none of us wanting those innocents to come under a cloud.

It will be your daughter's decision as to whether or not she will have this child.  You have to be so, so careful when it comes to influencing her.  Either way there could be consequences with her pointing the finger at you in the future.  (Mind you, somehow they can still find a way to point fingers, right?)

My heart goes out to you, MomMae.  Right now you need to vent... .and posting on this forum is a wonderful way to do it.  Just knowing you are being heard will give some degree of comfort.  Keep writing!

[Yepanotherone]

Oh gosh MomMae my worst nightmare ! I feel for you  I managed to persuade my DD last year to get an IUD fitted because she was being so irresponsible with the birth control pill . There is no doubt in my mind she'd be pregnant by now if not for that IUD . My DD is a strange one in that she'll see how crazy it would be to get pregnant right now and indeed she has often said she doesn't want to have birth children as she doesn't want to risk handing down her mental health issues . She's said that she would adopt rather than having her own . That said , she literally doesn't give a hoot about being responsible with birth control . And I certainly wouldn't put it past her to get pregnant on purpose particularly when in a relationship , in efforts to " keep the guy "! Her IUD is due to be replaced when she's 19 . I only hope I can persuade her to get another one in at that point !
I've no words of wisdom for you lovely , just know we are all here xxxx 

[Lollypop]

Hi mommae

I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear your news. Great advice from WD and Huat. I'm thinking about you and hope your talk goes ok with your daughter.

Hugs

LP

[atmywitsendtoo]

Hi MomMae,

Well, if you remember my previous posts, you know that I know exactly how you feel and what you are going through.
My very difficult daughter is due Sept 11th and I just spent the day knitting a baby blanket. I have come to terms with it more than my husband who just keeps heaving deep sighs.

Life with my daughter and her baby and her estranged boyfriend not to mention his rough around the edges family is going to be a struggle.

I hope with all my heart that for everybody's sake your daughter does not make the same starry eyed & misguided decision that my daughter made and you do not find yourself knitting a baby blanket too several months from now. I hope the similarities in our stories end with your daughter's announcement of her pregnancy and it does not go further than that.

Best wishes,

atmywitsendtoo

[MomMae]

Thank you everybody for reaching out so that I know I'm understood and not alone.  Oh boy, am I glad that I found this board before we were faced with this news.

The talk with my daughter went well - there was no anger, accusations, etc.  It was very emotional and there were a lot of tears, especially from daughter.  While I do believe she got pregnant on purpose (don't worry, did not say this to her, what is the point... .?), she now realizes the weight of the decision she has to make.  She knows that she had a very secure, happy childhood and cries when she thinks of how she would not be able to provide the same environment for a child at this point.  So we definitely gently focused on that... .I stress gently... .all the while saying that if she does decide to have the baby, we would of course love it, and be there to help.  She listened.  She actually talked, instead of the usual clamming up that can be so frustrating.  She said that she will be fine for a bit, thinking about making a decision one way and then flip flop back to thinking about the other option and then get very upset... .sounds like a fairly normal reaction to being in that situation, I think.  She did say that she has "nothing else" in her life right now and "nothing going for her", both statements so UNTRUE.  So there was a gentle pep talk on my part. (Something I have had to do for her entire life and I DO worry about how she is coping without someone there to do this for her now... .I had been helping her learn to pep talk herself before she abruptly left home last summer)  That girl has so much going for her - she graduated as a Registered Practical Nurse at age 19.  Pointed out that even if that turns out to not be the career she pursues, no one can take that away from her! It is actually very easy to find many, many positives about her.  Then we also gently pointed out that it is a very unfair burden to place on a child to expect them to fulfill some void that is missing within yourself, to imagine being born into that pressure... .That led to talking about the importance of being as mentally healthy as possible when having a child, what it would be like to have a depressed mother. 

So, she listened, she cried, we hugged... .  But I still have no idea what decision she will make.  If she doesn't decide to terminate, we will be in a difficult position almost immediately due to her present living conditions.  She knows that she is not in a healthy environment for growing a baby - her BF is a constant marijuana user, there are about 5 smokers living there and they DO smoke in the house with children, so daughter is constantly exposed to second hand MJ and cig smoke.  She no longer does either herself (YAY!), but her clothes reek of it.  And then there is the food.  Daughter is actually an extremely healthy eater when good food is available (better than me!) but there is zero healthy food where she is now.  So, when we take her back tomorrow, I will load her up with healthy food (no fear anyone else in that home will eat it) and I have already started her on prenatal vitamins.  Obviously I want her to end the pregnancy, but if not, we need to help her have as healthy of a child as possible.  The dilemma is, what do we do if she definitely decides to have the baby.  She knows she should not be living in that environment while pregnant or with a child, but having her live here again is not something we will just jump into.  So my husband and I are brainstorming options... .

As Huat said, we are trying to be as careful as possible not to be seen as pressuring her one way or the other.  She knows that our preference for her well-being would be to not have a child right now so she can focus on herself, but we have definitely not condemned the idea of having the child.  I think we are doing a decent job of being there for her (she hasn't stormed out, so there's that   ) 

So much for a nice, normal weekend together that we had planned! Today we are carrying on with plans for a fun family beach day with our two daughters, just like old times.  What else is there to do... .?

Again, thanks to all for your thoughts.  Atmywitsend, you are a great mother and you will be an equally great grandma!  I am so sorry that things are so difficult for you right now.   I was reading some of your posts again yesterday... .my, we do have a lot of similarities in our stories.   MM

[Yepanotherone]

Well it sounds like you and hubby are doing the very best that you can with this very difficult situation MomMae . Wishing you a lovely , " normal " beach day today xxxx
For what it's worth , my 20 year old " step" niece just had a baby . She definitley got pregnant on purpose to " keep the guy " ... .which has backfired because she recently found out he's still doing drugs and cheats on her regularly ! Her parents tell us though that somehow or other , this baby has been the making of her . Interestingly  , my niece did go through 6 or 7 years of being a very difficult teen from the age of 12/13, with promiscuity , drinking , self harm , sexuality issues, stealing , lying  and legal trouble with assaulting her girlfriend at that time . Her parents couldn't cope with her , she was shipped out to live with her grandparents and there was talk of a BPD diagnosis in there at the time . She does seem to have grown up though and has her life and head screwed on these days. She seems to be doing a good job with being a new mum , despite the issues with the boyfriend . I can't imagine it's easy for her  parents at all as this wasn't what they wanted for her , but I do know that regardless , they adore their new grandson .
I just wanted to put that out there, just in case your DD does decide to keep the baby . It might not be the most horrific thing to happen for your family x

[mggt]

g you nothing but the best.  My d has two children 5 and 1  she has been using them both as pawns since day one , we are currently nc with her and gc because we said no to her  it .doesnt really matter why its always something with our d .  Our hearts are broken because the five year old lived with us off and on for years and we adore her and the 1 year old we cant see because boyfriend does not like us   .  By the way two different fathers and she is not with either one now   Sorry to be honest but bringing a baby into a BPD life is he## our d just uses us when she can I will say special prayer for you and your family  

[MomMae]

My BPD dd20 is leaning toward terminating the pregnancy, but having a very difficult time with the thought emotionally.  She is going for an ultrasound today to determine the exact age and she is very upset by the thought of this.  I am going with her.  I am worried, too, as I don't know if they will be offering an image of the baby to her as they did way back when, when I was pregnant. I don't know what to expect... .I feel I want to tell them that she may be terminating, so this doesn't happen, but don't want to take too much control either.  It is likely very close to the time limit that they even offer abortions in our small town (about 12 weeks) ... .which would mean a 2 hour trip to the city for a more invasive and traumatic procedure. 

I am actually getting very worried what terminating the pregnancy could do to her mental health.  She starts crying uncontrollably whenever she stops and thinks about it.  She says that she thinks logically that she should terminate when she considers the circumstances (unsupportive father and his family, no money, no place to live, the state of her own life, thought of being a single parent, losing out on her own opportunities) but then she starts to think things such as what if her father and I had decided to terminate my first pregnancy - then her brother wouldn't exist.  I am not good at responding to such things on the fly - I explained how it was totally different circumstances (we were married, been together for years), but it all came out jumbled - finally just said I understood how she felt... .  I did tell her that neither choice is a "life-ruiner" - that there is no such thing (in my opinion) as something that will ruin your life... .it is what you do with the choices you make or the hand you are dealt. 

On the plus side, we have had a good relationship with her since we learned this news.  She has spent quite a bit of time here (overnight visits).  She's been here now since Sunday so I can take her to appointments, etc.  Loser boyfriend just hides out when we pick her up.

I think what she really wants is a magic wand to just make it all go away.  She wants it over, but doesn't want to deal with the inevitable reality of the procedure and the emotions.  As I said, I am quite worried about the long-term effect this could have on her mental health.  Reading up on abortion, it says that studies show that there appears to be no correlation between depression or mental health issues and abortion.  But what if you already have mental health issues?  Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi MM
I've thought about you often and wondered how you were getting on. Can she access some counselling that would come as part of the termination service? It seems she could do with somebody independent to talk to to help her work out her feelings and maybe get herself in a more clear thinking pattern. I totally understand if  this isn't possible. I feel for you I really do. Your doing a fantastic job.

LP

[MomMae]

Hi Lollypop,

Thank you so much for your reply.  Yes, I definitely think she should talk to someone besides just us before she goes ahead.  I don't want her to perceive us as pressuring her, but it is necessary for her to look at her circumstances realistically and she knows this.  I just asked the doctor about this yesterday, as I read some clinics in Ontario have mandatory counselling before the procedure.  He was unsure if ours does.  I did find an out-of-town service that she can call or instant online message so she will be doing that this morning (I hope).

I left her some online reading yesterday before I went to work that offers advice on what to consider when deciding whether or not to continue a pregnancy.  It basically repeated the same concerns that we have been bringing up (finances, unsupportive father, stage of life, whether you are emotionally ready to have a child, etc) so it was good for her to see that we were not just being judgemental by raising these valid concerns, that there are thousands of women who have to weigh these concerns before making a decision. 

Thanks for the support, LP!    MM 

[MomMae]

There's been a very unfortunate development.  The decision was taken out of my BPD dd20's hands.  The ultrasound showed that the baby had died and my daughter is taking it very hard. 

I am too exhausted go into too much detail, but there are three options she can follow.  Let nature take it's course and she should pass the products of pregnancy naturally within two weeks, take three pills over three days and force the miscarriage to pass quickly, or have a d and c, which is the most invasive but also it is over and done with.  With the first two options, there is a higher risk of a dangerous hemorrhage and doctor says she should be with people who could quickly get her medical access which is highly unlikely to to happen if she returns to BF place out in the middle of nowhere, with people who didn't even care to get her prenatal care despite the fact that she was wasting away in front of their eyes.  She is terribly underweight.  She was adamant about returning to BF place, stating no reason not to now, nothing matters.  She had a meltdown in front of gyn. when I expressed my concerns for her safety out there.  She doesn't like any of the options (like the doctor said, they are all s---tty) but begrudgingly decided on surgery so she can get away from us faster - she completely turned on me last night when she found out I had contacted the BF mother with my concerns that she should be with us right now. Trying to control? - maybe, but my husband and I both had the horrible vision of her bleeding out with no one to help - unlikely, but these things do happen.  So, it was a horrible night with dd behaviour reverting right back to the worst.

She is going for the surgery today.  The BF has taken her and I am glad. I am worn out.  Ironically, I have had a couple decent interactions with him... .  I had texted him yesterday about please encouraging her to stay here while she recovered and said he could visit her here - no response.  Then late last night when she was blowing up at us, she was holding her cell phone and apparently he was on the other end and could hear the conversation. I can't remember what we were saying to her rant, but I guess it was reasonable, because he texted me that he heard some of it, and that he thinks there was a misunderstanding, and he's sorry.  I guess he sees we are not so horrible after all.  I know I did not lose my cool despite being blamed for everything, and did validate when I could.  My husband says he was impressed.  So at least it has squeaked open a little communication with the BF, we can now communicate where there was none (but don't get me wrong, he is no prince charming!)

This is probably a garbled mess to read.  I am a garbled mess today! Thanks for reading.  MM

[mggt]

Dear mommae, So sorry to hear about her miscarriage   

[MomMae]

Thank you mggt.  It is difficult as we were all starting accept that she was probably not going to be able to go ahead with an abortion and that there would be a baby in our future.  Nature knows best. My daughter is quite underweight so it is not surprising that her body could not sustain a pregnancy, especially with no prenatal care until we found out and got on it.

Surgery went well and she is doing surprising well at this point, mentally and physically.  A doctor at the hospital told her some hogwash about her chances of a miscarriage next time being 30 percent and then 50 percent after that.  Total BS that is not validated by what other doctors, nurses or studies say - why would a doctor say this to an underweight 20 year old? So as usual, I spent considerable time pep talking her out of that BS, as she always latches on to the worst case scenario and holds tight.  This is how she has been since she was born and I guess I have always used CBT with her, just didn't know that it had a name! 

Communication between us has been open since yesterday morning (it is like the previous night's rant and tantrum never happened) but I won't let myself get sucked into thinking that she won't turn on a dime again in a second.  She has no self-reflection and never apologizes or owns up to her behaviour.

We actually sat down for about half an hour with her and the BF last night and chatted.  We don't trust him, he has done some despicable things, but we will work on accepting him as much as we can for our daughter's sake.

I have been thankful every day since finding this forum.  It feels like a safety net.  MM

[wendydarling]

Hi MomMae

I'm so very sorry and hope your DD is staying safe with you and you're able to rest up.   For the decision to be taken away from your DD is hard.

She has no self-reflection and never apologizes or owns up to her behaviour.

Will she receive, or be open to counselling to help her through her loss, reflect, go through the what ifs may be an opportunity, a step to help herself forwards? 

I hope the BF keeps in touch, open to communication, you did well to reach out at such a difficult time.
 
You are right a safety net, and a good old reality check, learning together is helpful for us.

Phew, small steps MM, 2 years ago my DD was in hospital, today she is smiling and hopeful, yes she's a way to go - she's on her path, challenge is to help them find it, it can be done.

WDx

[MomMae]

Thank you, WD.  No, she will not be receiving any counselling.  There are very limited resources where we are; a very rural area.  However, once it was done, she seemed to rebound from the miscarriage almost immediately.  The sorrow and crying were done by the time she was home from the hospital after the d and c.  Her behaviour and reactions can be truly baffling.  Perhaps she is just glad that she did not have to decide to have a termination.  I know that I am relieved that we don't have to worry about the possible fallout of a mental set back as well as blame and guilt that an abortion could have stirred up.

Now what to do about birth control.  I have broached the idea of an IUD, which she totally balks at.  She was talking about a monthly injection, which I know nothing about, except that after the first one, she probably would never go again.  Now, today, two weeks after the miscarriage, I just broached the topic again.  She is saying that she will start taking the pill again.  I don't believe that she was taking it, period.  When she lived under our roof, she could not remember to take it, no matter what we tried.  So she agreed to let me dole it out to her... .even then I sometimes found them on the floor! (and she is a nurse who has been responsible for meds for an entire senior's home!)  It is impossible for me to believe that she was responsibly taking her BC pills when she became pregnant as she claims (I did mention the half dozen used pregnancy tests we have found in her room/car... .not including the ones that showed she finally WAS pregnant).  Truthfully, I do not think she even has a prescription. 

What to do?  I realize that no one can force her to use birth control, but do we just sit back and wait for her to get pregnant again?  She is 100lb at 5'6".  I am considering texting her social worker to see if she can broach the subject as any advice from me to DD is met with disdain.  Perhaps coming from this worker it would go over better.  Apparently DD did give social worker permission to speak with me. 

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated.  MM

[wendydarling]

Hi MomMae

Perhaps she is just glad that she did not have to decide to have a termination.  I know that I am relieved that we don't have to worry about the possible fallout of a mental set back as well as blame and guilt that an abortion could have stirred up.

Yes, your DD bouncing back almost immediately, she did not have to decide, that solved the pressure of her making a decision where the responsibility either way was hers, not yours, this is an important point you raise. I use the Adopt a Problem Solving Model (tool to the  |---> and afterwards reflect how well I did, for a better outcome next time, and the next ... .it works. Is there a specific skill, lesson that has been helpful, top of your list?

The skills we learn here feel counter-intuitive, they help prevent things from getting worse, and some are about learning to coach (instead of enable or rescue or save, for example). It takes a while to get the hang of things and small changes in our behaviour can make a difference in theirs, we get to a better place. It's the investment I have made for my DD, I can only change me 

I'm glad your DD has a social worker to meet with, oversight and responsibility for her care, your DD has given you permission to be in touch is good, though be mindful not to expect feedback and that's ok, their business and responsibility to work with.

Small gentle steps help as we walk with our loved ones and we personally grow and heal.

WDx