Is there a genetic component to BPD?

[Lucky Jim]

Friends, One time when I was utterly frustrated I gave a detailed account of my BPDxW's erratic and abusive behavior to my F-I-L, with whom I was fairly close at the time.  Instead of expressing shock or disbelief, he said that he was quite familiar with the behaviors I described, because they resembled those of his mother (my Ex's grandmother).  I appreciated his candor because it validated what had been going on in our marriage.  Plus, he didn't take her side and assume that I was exaggerating or making things up.

A few days later, after speaking with my F-I-L, my B-I-L called to say that my Ex had denied the incidents I had reported. I replied, "Well, it would be pretty hard to make this s**t up!"  He said, I know, which is why I believe you.

Anyway, those conversations got me thinking about whether BPD has a genetic component, like alcoholism, that runs in families?  Of course I recognize that childhood trauma and other factors play a role, too.

Perhaps this is a subject that has already been covered in the literature; if so, I'm unaware of it.

Thanks to all for your thoughts,

LuckyJim

[heartandwhole]

Hi LuckyJim 

Anyway, those conversations got me thinking about whether BPD has a genetic component, like alcoholism, that runs in families?  Of course I recognize that childhood trauma and other factors play a role, too.

Some studies say that there is. The cause of BPD is not clear-cut—there appear to be a variety of factors that contribute—and genetics playing a role appears to be an accepted piece of the puzzle.

We have some information here:

DSM Definition: BPD

Risk and Prognostic Factors
Genetic and physiological. Borderline personality disorder is about five times more common among first-degree biological relatives of those with the disorder than in the general population. There is also an increased familial risk for substance use disorders, antisocial personality disorder, and depressive or bipolar disorders.


Here's a study result that indicated familial factors in BPD:

Family Study of Borderline Personality Disorder and Its Sectors of Psychopathology


Those were some very interesting conversations you had with your in-laws! I'm glad that they were able to validate your feelings and thoughts on what you had experienced. That is worth a lot.

heartandwhole

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks for your thoughts, H&W.  Presumably there is also a biological component in terms of how the brain of a pwBPD reacts to certain stimuli.  I assume that triggering involves a release of chemicals or neurotransmitters in the pwBPD's brain (obviously, I'm not a scientist!).  LJ

[Shane87]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there are genetic predispositions in some families.  Noting important tidbits I am now learning about my wife's mother's side, and traits I am observing in my children, I would be shocked if there wasn't a genetic link.

[flourdust]

Researchers have provided various estimates of how much genetic influence (heritability) there is on personality disorders. There haven't been any really great controlled studies for something as fuzzily defined and diagnosed as BPD, but there is enough evidence to show that there's some genetic component.

[foggydew]

My uBPD friend's father killed himself age 23, his mother was apparently very difficult, aggressive, had many unstable relationships and committed suicide aged 72.

[Pedro]

My exgf BPD, her father has depression/mood swings according to his daughter. I have seen it at close quarters whilst staying with him on previous vacations. Her Father's Mother has a mental health condition but i do not know the exact diagnosis?  Her brother has some sort of depressive illness or personality disorder again i am not sure of his diagnosis? Her family from what she told me do not like to discuss their respective conditions which when have been active whilst i have stayed with them have been intense, uncomfortable in atmosphere, & quite intimidating to be around. Is there any connection between her & her family's respective mental health condition, i reckon so but i am not medically qualified to give an accurate answer here?

[foggydew]

Seems like you can inherit a sensitivity, or tendency, but the environment may be the deciding factor. I think it is pretty obvious that some of the really difficult FOO contribute to the development - but I also think that many families are not toxic, and yet the children don't get what they need for their particular sensitivity. I think this is true for many mental conditions ... .my stepchildren (who I first met after they reached the age of 16) both developed different conditions - schizophrenia and bipolar.Their story is similar to that of my uBPD friend. There is a line of mental problems in both families.

[Meili]

It's hard to know for sure, but there are plenty of great, loving, well-meaning parents that have raised a child with BPD; and they are all over the Parenting board.

One example is that of a highly sensitive child, with sensitive needs, that doesn't necessarily react/adapt the same way another child would to the same style of parenting - the child may perceive it as invalidating, for example.

[enlighten me]

Hi Meli

you ask who decides how another persons brain should behave well theres a DSM written by so called experts that is a template of what is considered abnormal behaviour.

With PTSD (and yes I finished my relationship with a form of this) there has been research into a genetic predisposition.

I am not here to bash PDs as the world would be a lot different if they didn't exist. Artists such as van gough wouldn't have created their great works. Musicians such as kurt cobain would never have shown their talent. Scientists such as Einstein would never have come up with what they did. These differences in the brain are what have lead to different perspectives on the world.

You missed my point or I worded it poorly. I'm not saying that a brain that functions differently is wrong what I am saying is that there has to be a physicality for it to behave that way. Whether its the wiring in the brain or a part of the brain that differs. If there wasn't a physical difference then the differing behaviour would not happen.

[Meili]

You do make a good point about those that write the DSM. I would argue that they are not saying that the person's brain "shouldn't work that way," but rather that the person's brain performs abnormally. But, like you said, perhaps we are actually discussing the same thing but using different wording. That does happen.

I think that your last statement is true by default. Each human's brain is different and neurons follow different pathways within each individual, and sometimes different pathways within the individual if I understand it all correctly.

But, that does not have any nexus between whether or not the pathways were formed as a result of genetics of life circumstances.

I think that it has been said several times over in this thread, there is just no way of knowing. To debate the subject, with the information currently available is futile.

For the record, I'm not saying that you are debating with me EM, and I appreciate your clarification of the previous post.

[beady]

I am by no means an expert, but I am aware that there are other ways of 'passing on' various physical and mental abnormalities besides the well know paths of DNA and RNA, and it used be thought only DNA was the source of genetic anomalies. Exciting research is being done in with regards to epigenetics, the ability of genes to switch on and off in response to certain influences, chemical/hormonal, etc. I truly believe there is a whole new world of discoveries to made, and it will help with so many mental and physical problems, addictions, etc. The question is whether we can all hang in long enough to see this happen. If not us, then hopefully others in the future will have some hope of living a more peaceful, happy life. I have an undiagnosed BPD daughter, 34, and a schizophrenic son, 31. I have nothing but hope left. 

[Turkish]

For some reason,  I'm thinking back to the original Star Trek series, where everything could be cured with a hypo-spray. I also think that there is a "ghost in the machine" argument being made here, which leans philosophical: materialism vs... .metaphysics (ontology)?

Aside from that,  I find Bowen's Eight Concepts regarding differentiation to be useful; specifically, multi-generational transmission.

The combination of parents actively shaping the development of their offspring, offspring innately responding to their parents’ moods, attitudes, and actions, and the long dependency period of human offspring results in people developing levels of differentiation of self similar to their parents’ levels.

I see this in my ex and her family (she still points to this to explain both her abandonment of me as well as her criminal violence towards her husband), and I see it in myself,  even though I was cut off from my birth family as a baby,  and only saw my adoptive family twice in four decades, but my adoptive mother is BPD, PTSD, and Depressive. My birth mother met the tragic stereotype of the alcoholic and drug addicted "Indian" (Native American,  she was born on the reservation,  adopted out to middle class white folk,  and died of an OD in her early 20s).

The next step in the multigenerational transmission process is people predictably selecting mates with levels of differentiation of self that match their own.

This is what is controversial here for a lot of members,  and I struggle with it myself.  However,  I encourage everyone to read the whole article in the link.  It's short (and the other seven concepts are useful as well).


Level of differentiation of self can affect longevity, marital stability, reproduction, health, educational accomplishments, and occupational successes. This impact of differentiation on overall life functioning explains the marked variation that typically exists in the lives of the members of a multigenerational family. The highly differentiated people have unusually stable nuclear families and contribute much to society; the poorly differentiated people have chaotic personal lives and depend heavily on others to sustain them. A key implication of the multigenerational concept is that the roots of the most severe human problems as well as of the highest levels of human adaptation are generations deep. The multigenerational transmission process not only programs the levels of “self” people develop, but it also programs how people interact with others.

Do we see this always? No,  exceptions are on the Parenting Board. So this throws it back into the "ghost in the machine" view.  Or does it?

I see the marked differences been my two kids,  evident at one year of age.  I used to call S7 "Baby Rainman." Yes,  I'm not politically correct. Last December just before he turned 7, he was diagnosed as ASD1 (what they used to call Asperger's). D5 we knew was a steadfast princess at 1, different than our son.  Inherent personality traits. Both are at risk from a mother who suffers from clinical anxiety and depression and by my view,  BPD traits.

Are their personalities hard-wired to an extent (the machine), sure.  :)o their parents influence that brain plasticity and differentiation? Definitely.  Ghost. Machine.  Human.  

We can "proof text" each other all day long (and BPD is curable, we had a member mention her husband being cured just today), but in the end,  it isn't so simple as "nature or nurture" but rather a complex interaction with both.  

[enlighten me]

Hi Turkish

The point you make on people selecting others based on levels of differentiation I believe is valid. Where most of us here came unstuck is that we believed the person was at the same level but they where mirroring what we wanted.

The hard wired brain intrigues me. How much is actually hard wired I don't know (if any). It has been shown that brain plasticity in stroke victims can utilise unused parts of the brain to take over motor and speech control. This however is a long process. If BPD is a physical difference then re writing the affected part of the brain could be possible if it is in a plastic area (for want of a better phrase). This could be why DBT is affective but like a stroke victim its not an over night treatment and has to be worked at.

The hard bit about this topic is that there is some evidence but we are still in the dark about how the brain truly functions. Its hard to base this topic on facts when there are so few out there. Even the 1-2% of the population that suffer from BPD is only an estimate and not a hard fact. The MRIs showing physical differences are a fact but only for those that have been scanned. My point is that although this topic should be kept factual it is hard not to cross into supposition as so little is truly known. 

[OptimusRhyme]

We can "proof text" each other all day long (and BPD is curable, we had a member mention her husband being cured just today), but in the end,  it isn't so simple as "nature or nurture" but rather a complex interaction with both.  

I did a quick search of the forums, but couldn't find it - was this in a thread, and if so, can you share the link? I'd like to read about her experience. Thanks!

[Lucky Jim]

If we are in a high conflict or hurtful relationship for a period of time and haven't found a pathway to a fulfilling and enriching relationship, that is reason enough to move on and look for another partner. This is the lesson we all should learn.

Further, if your partner has a contributing chronic disorder (pwBPD traits, depression, substance abuse, emotional immaturity, gambling, etc.), this is a serious weight that will always weigh on the relationship. It your (or my) case, that weigh may be insurmountable on the specific situation and relationship we were in.

Like what you're saying there, Skip.  I concur.  Thanks to all, LJ

[SuperJew82]

What Meili said.

It's easy to paint something black or white.

Nobody is purely defined by genetics or by brain stucture.

Stroke/brain injury survivors start activating other areas of their brain to pick up the work, identical twins can have different disorders, the list goes on.

It is a fact that recent studies have shown BPD sufferers have abnormalities in their brain structure compared to controls and there are suggestive genetic components. My ex's mom had it too... She was married 4 times.

I often wonder about the nature/nuture idea . Does the fact that someone's parents have it cause the parent to build a toxic environment around it and then the child is developed in this detrimental atmosphere? Would the child have BPD if they were taken out of the toxic enviornment and placed into a nuturing one? Who knows? I would think the child might be more prone to BPD but as the highly malleable kid brain can easily adapt to the environment, it might be not even pronounced later in life. These are just guesses.

It's a serious issue. No doubt about that.

I think this makes this disease a very significant disease and I'm choosing to avoid someone who is suffering from this disorder - but that is my personal decision.

What if you were born set out to develop BPD? These BPD sufferers are stronger than probably any of us. Just getting out of bed and functioning takes tremendous strength sometimes. I'm not sure I could deal with the type of emotional pain that they experiance - but they keep on trucking. They want the same things we want. They want to feel safe, loved, and accepted.

Sometimes the best thing we can do as "nons" is to suggest direction and step as we are making their pain worse along with hurting ourselves.

Often times the reason why you got into this type of relationship has nothing to do with the BPD sufferer. It has to do with yourself.

I know you are hurt, mad, and upset. I was too. It get's better with time.

[Lucky Jim]

Often times the reason why you got into this type of relationship has nothing to do with the BPD sufferer. It has to do with yourself.

Right, SuperJew82.  Figuring out that reason is the key to moving on from a BPD r/s and, in a sense, is the gift we get after going through all that suffering.

LJ

[Meili]

LJ, the gift part is so true! I have learned so much about myself and grown in ways that I never knew since my last relationship. I know that I'm at a different stage in my healing than others, but, for me, the benefits that have surfaced from that relationship far outweigh the pain that I endured when it was happening and ended.

Ultimately, it seems to come down to what we actually want for ourselves. I wanted to know why I stayed in the situation and why I was willing to endure what I experienced. It became very important to me.

The direction that I approached the situation from was to look at what she provided to me that I craved so much, and why I put up with the rest. It was a two part equation.

Going through it, I discovered so much about who I am and why I do the things that I do. It has empowered me to change the things that I don't like about myself and the reasons that I make so many bad choices.

This is the very reason why, earlier in this thread, I commented about it being far less important to figure out why they are the way that they are than it is to figure out why we are the way that we are.

I won't dispute that, in the beginning, it can be soothing to learn about BPD and its possible causes. It helps us know that we aren't crazy. But, if we get stuck in the why's about BPD, we never look at ourselves. At that point, we are denying ourselves the gift.

[Lucky Jim]

Agree, Meili.  One saying I like these days is: "Put your energy where your power is."  To me, this means working on the things within my control, i.e., mainly myself, which leads me to your statement which I find true, that it's more important to figure out why we are the way we are than it is about trying to figure out why they are they way they are.  The latter is something that I doubt one ever really figures out, anyway!

LJ