Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 11:41:07 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Knowing what to do doesn't make it any easier  (Read 1462 times)
BeagleGirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 570



« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2017, 08:35:21 AM »

Does that make sense? Am I missing something?

DaddyBear,

There is one thing that I think you are missing in your most recent post.  :)3 and the way BPDw pulled her into the drama and used her.  I'll get to that in a moment.

First, I want to say how proud I am to see you "walking a different road", as FF said.  It's inspiring, especially because I feel a bit "stalled out" at the moment.

You did an excellent job staying firm, offering empathy, and demonstrating that your convictions can withstand extreme pressure.  Your wife may not admit it, but I feel that's exactly the kind of man that most women WANT their husbands to be.  Heck, that's "close friend" criteria for me.  {We'll politely ignore the fact that BG's BPDh doesn't currently meet the criteria she just stated was her "close friend" minimum and move on}.

I don't know if your wife responds well to plans.  If she does, FF's suggestion to present the plan to her and ask for her feedback is great.  It would TOTALLY work for me, but I suspect that DB's wife is more of what Dave Ramsey calls a "free spirit".  My BPDh is one.  Budgeting has always been a challenge because he does not find the same comfort/joy I do in the numbers all working out (even if the debt pay off date is could be a "Star Date" given on the original Star Trek series -oops my nerd is showing again-I find a working out a plan tremendously rewarding).  If DB's wife is not a "plan person", maybe the goal is to get her to understand that you have a plan.  You are an excellent planner.  That's your strength.  You are happy to explain the plan to her, and would welcome feedback, but unless she can find money you are not aware of, you would rather use HER strength.  She is creative.  She thinks outside the box.  Can she help you find an "outside the box" way to get her the ring she wants without putting the family (not your plan, focus on THE FAMILY) at risk?  Are there items that can be sold/exchanged?  Is there anything that she would enjoy doing that could be leveraged to help free up some of THE FAMILY finances so that the ring could be purchased sooner?

Can you expand a bit on what she means when she says she "compromised" on the previous engagement ring?

Okay.  Now to tackle the "missing" component.  As important as the ring boundary is (and I think you've made great progress there), I think another boundary needs to be set ASAP.  :)3 is NOT to be subjected to emotional turmoil.  The parent who is in a highly emotional state (raised voice, inability to take a break from an emotionally loaded subject, crying, obvious distress) needs to be the one to step away from D3.  If that parent is not willing/able to take that step away, the calmer parent will take D3 to a calmer place to give the emotionally distressed parent some time to calm down.  

If the scenario you described were to start to repeat itself, at the point where D3 wakes up you could express to BPDw that "our focus needs to shift to D3 now.  We can continue this conversation later."  

If BPDw doesn't let it go: ":)3 needs a calm environment while we go through her morning routine.  I can handle it while you go in the other room and refocus on joining our morning routine without this tension or wait for me to be free to continue our discussion."

If BPDw STILL doesn't let it go/leave the room:  "I can see that you need the space to work through this, but D3 still needs a calmer environment.  I will be taking her to x location.  Please text me when you are ready to focus on her or continue our discussion in a calmer manner."

I would have a travel bag with clothes for D3 in the trunk at all times.  If you need to get her ready for preschool, you can drive to McDonald's and have a fun "pajama breakfast" then get her dressed and ready either there or at the daycare if BPDw is not able to calm down sufficiently for you to go back home and get her ready.

Does that sound like it would work?  Are there complications that you are pretty sure BPDw would throw in the mix that would make that boundary and those actions difficult?
Logged
flourdust
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: In the process of divorce after 12 year marriage
Posts: 1663



« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2017, 10:41:18 AM »

Here's the thing - I listened to her tonight, again, explain why the original engagement ring I got her is something she can't stand to look at any more. She says she compromised when she asked for that 16 years ago. I feel for her. I can see that this is really genuinely hard. I'm NOT opposed to buying a new one. I think it would be a great thing. But ONLY under better more affordable circumstances. Doing it now taints the new one as much as the old.

Why do you feel for her? Why do you see this is "genuinely hard" for her? Why do you think buying the ring would be a great thing?

Let me flip this for you: Why doesn't SHE feel for you and the family with your finances in such dire straits that you may end up with your house foreclosed on? Why is it "genuinely hard" for her to have a ring she doesn't like instead of a roof over her and her kid's head? Why does she think it would be a "great thing" to buy a ring and not a "great thing" to afford the mortgage and get your family out of horrific debt?

She has incredibly selfish messed-up priorities. Your empathy for her is validating the invalid.
Logged

Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2017, 11:05:09 AM »

Hey DB, My BPDxW was often looking to the next big thing -- a car, a house, a vacation -- to fill the emptiness inside herself.  I used to say that, no matter what I did, it was "never enough," which was an accurate description of what I came to see as an emotional black hole that could never be filled for long.  I guess what I'm saying is that your W's need for the ring may be a symptom of a larger issue: the state of your marriage to a pwBPD.

LuckyJim
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2017, 11:45:43 AM »

What you are missing is the gap between your wife's feelings and what she says about you.

She really does feel unwanted, unloved, unappreciated, that she's not a priority, that she waited too long for this ring already, etc., etc., etc.

That said, her conclusions based on her very real feelings are not real. She's accusing you of not caring, etc., etc., etc.

That isn't the case. You actually understand the financial situation your household is in, from a logical, accountant's point of view. That doesn't match her feelings, and she blames you.

Bluntly, you have two choices: Either drive yourself further into financial ruin, or accept that she will blame you for what you aren't buying for her, and make up all kinds of accusations against you.

And yes, this is an extinction burst. The WORST thing you can do is give in now to one. That would be teaching her that turning up the volume on the verbal/emotional abuse of you works perfectly to get you to do what she wants. Trust me, that is a lesson you've reinforced too much already!
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2017, 01:15:39 PM »

Your empathy for her is validating the invalid.

For future "listening"... .listen for a minute or two, then set a time later... next day... whenver, that you can devote your attention to this.

Be friendly, empathetic, interested... .and NOT able to do this right now.

The big picture is to stop "reacting" to her reality and let her deal with it.

She will deal badly with with and will keep trying to "hand this" to you to "handle".

You are on the right path... .

Hang in there.

FF


Logged

DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2017, 01:17:45 PM »

Does that sound like it would work?  Are there complications that you are pretty sure BPDw would throw in the mix that would make that boundary and those actions difficult?
Ok, lots of good stuff, but let me focus on this very important, forgotten topic - D3

Your plan sounds wonderful, BeagleGirl. I really mean that. But there are some serious complications that make this even more dangerous to implement than just leaving the room when uBPDw comes in to "take over" (which breaks my heart because I know how much D3 will suffer in the long run from such exposure, but there are far worse scenarios, which I'm about to describe)

Many mornings start out exactly as you describe. D3 needs attention. uBPDw already has my attention and is asking for more. uBPDw ignores, and in fact is annoyed and upset, that D3 is requiring attention. I say "We need to stop this conversation now and take care of D3." uBPDw resists.

Here's where the ugly part happens. I go through the process of "Why don't you take a break and I'll go handle her", etc, but every step she says "NO! I NEED YOU NOW! SHE CAN WAIT A MINUTE!" If uBPDw screams this, as she often does, this upsets D3 even more. Even if uBPDw doesn't scream, D3 is getting more and more agitated. Finally, I say, "I need to go now and take care of D3."

Ok, so far so good.

At this point, uBPDw leaps out of bed and comes running behind me to grab D3 out of my arms (the situation we had yesterday). Lets say I physically stand between uBPDw and D3: *BUZZER SOUND* Game lost - physical "abuse" - not going there. Lets say I've somehow managed to grab D3 in time and headed for the door, which I've done. uBPDw SCREAMS at me "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THIS IS KIDNAPPING! I'M CALLING THE POLICE!" - *BUZZER SOUND* Do I really want to test her? Do I want to call her bluff? Do I want to take the chance of being followed by a police car after being accused of kidnapping my own daughter? Holy SH*#!

So, on many previous threads I've brought this up and it's somewhat of a sidetrack to this discussion, but the point at which it all intersects is that THIS is another VERY POWERFUL tool that uBPDw has to try and control my behavior.

I just made an appointment with a T I had seen when D3 was first born. She shares an office with a former T that my uBPDw used to see. Of all the Ts I've seen, she is the one who really gets the whole picture I think. I've also been considering making an appointment with uBPDw's old therapist, not to discuss uBPDw, but to discuss D3. uBPDw's old T is also a certified child advocate for the state, and I can still remember one time where uBPDw's old T took me aside and said "You have to be there for D3 - if you're worried that uBPDw will carry through on threats to take D3 away from you, trust me. Don't worry about that. I will step in if I have to"

So, yeah, that's what's what with D3.

BTW, just came back from soothing D3 out of a 30 minute tantrum with MIL, where D3 stomped around, screamed, cried, yelled, all the things that she sees uBPDw do. She hugged me, I held her, she finally calmed down, and I realized, all the stuff I was afraid would happen? It's happening.
Logged
flourdust
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: In the process of divorce after 12 year marriage
Posts: 1663



« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2017, 02:54:33 PM »

I have also been in a similar situation with my exBPDw and a young daughter.

Is your BPDw a physical threat to D3?

If she is, there is a different set of rules you have to follow.

If she is not a threat -- then you need to break out of the pattern of letting your wife hold you "hostage" with D3. I think you are placing a little too much weight on what your T said. Yes, you need to be there for D3 -- as in, participating in her upbringing. Not there for her every second to guard her.

If there is no physical threat, then if BPDw snatches up D3, then BPDw is now responsible for taking care of her needs. And let her succeed or fail on her own.
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2017, 03:28:14 PM »

Your D3 emotionally is a good example of what your wife is emotionally. They are both about 3. D3's behavior- tantruming- isn't because she sees your wife doing it. It is what 3 year olds do.

3 year olds don't have the skills to manage their emotions yet. They feel ovewhelmed and then have a giant tantrum. Our job as adults is to be the adults here- to see that this is a normal behavior for a 3 year old- and model to them how to better manage bad feelings. We help them with things like time out- as it teaches them to self soothe. If a 3 year old is upset, sad, then a big hug from a loving parent is exactly what they need. Trying to control the raging tantrum of a 3 year old is about as effective as trying to control a raging person with BPD. Time out- or you walking away, ignoring the tantrum- letting the child learn to self soothe is also the thing to to with a raging, needy, pwBPD.  After the toddler ( pwBPD) calms down is the time for hugs and kisses.

Probably the difference between a 3 year old and an adult BPD meltdown is that it is normal for the 3 year old and the 3 year old won't be 3 forever.

What would happen if you had another 3 year old (DD3) and said to your D3 " I love both of you ".  Then D3 needs you but you say ":)3, I need take care of DD3 now, you will have to wait". I am pretty sure you know what will happen next. D3 is already upset and needs you, and you tell her to wait while you attend to DD3. You are in for a tantrum- because that is what 3 year olds do. This may be how your wife sees this emotionally.



Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2017, 04:19:58 PM »

a few thoughts:

1. Talk to the therapist about this. (as you are doing)

2. Post on the legal board / talk to lawyers / talk to domestic violence groups / talk to police (about a hypothetical situation)... ./ keep looking for SOMEBODY who can help you with this, because here's the situation as I see it: BPDw uses EMOTIONAL ABUSE OF D3 as a tool to control you.

It is clearly having an impact on D3 already.

And what is worst is that she knows it works, and you know it works. She's not at all likely to choose to stop doing this and "be a good parent" instead.

You may not be able to break this pattern without involving law enforcement of some kind... .but don't do that without a game plan first.

3. Flourdust's suggestion has some real potential--since you can't/won't stop her from snatching up D3 and upsetting D3, leave the house when she does it, leaving her to deal with the mess she is creating.

Not sure it is the best thing for D3, but the other choices are pretty bad too.
Logged
DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2017, 04:31:06 PM »

If there is no physical threat, then if BPDw snatches up D3, then BPDw is now responsible for taking care of her needs. And let her succeed or fail on her own.
No. There is no physical threat. I agree completely with what you're saying. The next time this pattern repeats, I will make reasonable attempts as BeagleGirl described, and if uBPDw won't go to D3 with me, I will still go myself. This will likely lead to uBPDw following after me to snatch up D3, at which point I will disengage and leave the room or house as needed.

Why do you feel for her? Why do you see this is "genuinely hard" for her? Why do you think buying the ring would be a great thing?
Another great question. It's "genuinely hard" for her because of her messed up belief system. The more time I spend listening to her, the more I start to believe it. It becomes MY messed up belief system. Sorry about that.



Here's a great example of what's going on currently - the following is a text message uBPDw JUST sent me:
Excerpt


I'm tired of trying to force you to give me an engagement ring and the commitment that goes with it: it will always be something you made sure I knew you didn't *want* to give.

If you're still "on the fence" about doing the right thing, proposing, meaning it, making the original commitment into something real, if you're still "on the fence", there's nothing I can do but walk away, emotionally if not physically. Love is not a one-person job.

It hurts. A lot.


I feel a lot of FOG after reading this. I feel guilty and very defensive. It drags up a LOT of memories.

When we first got engaged, we were in our early 20s. I couldn't afford a ring that cost as much as she wanted, so we had a custom ring made, on the spot, in the best diamond district there is, using the best stones we could find, on a budget I could afford. Maybe I should have waited to propose to her until I could save more? We had just taken two trips to Europe over the past year, all on credit cards. Rent was expensive. We both had student loans. I'm not sure I could have done it, but maybe I'm just letting myself off the hook too easily?

She's also referring to my "proposal" as something I didn't mean. I had picked our trip to Paris to propose, but I wasn't sure when we would be able to afford a wedding, or how long our engagement would / should last, and so I wasn't really pushing hard to set a date. She continues to see this as me "dragging my feet" or having second thoughts or even as me not being serious about the proposal in the first place. She also often applies this to our vows and our wedding day.

There's a lot of detail to this story which I'll leave out for now. And trying to share these stories with uBPDw is useless and inflammatory JADEing. She says "You're lying! You're making things up to make yourself look better!" I just wish we could see these from even a remotely similar perspective. I understand that I'm feeling a little sorry for myself. I understand that everyone sees things from a different perspective, and that I could have done things differently and I brought on a lot of the stress myself. But still, to say flat out that I don't care and that I didn't mean my proposal or my vows? MAN that hurts.


Anyway, these quotes (and many others) from all of you immediately come to mind:
And yes, this is an extinction burst. The WORST thing you can do is give in now to one. That would be teaching her that turning up the volume on the verbal/emotional abuse of you works perfectly to get you to do what she wants. Trust me, that is a lesson you've reinforced too much already!
Be friendly, empathetic, interested... .and NOT able to do this right now.

I really believe you guys and I think this is a great way (the ONLY way) to go about it. I'm just not sure how to process my own feelings? And is there anything else to be said to uBPDw other than using SET?

Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2017, 04:47:30 PM »

The most validating thing you can say to something like this... .
Excerpt
If you're still "on the fence" about doing the right thing, proposing, meaning it, making the original commitment into something real, if you're still "on the fence", there's nothing I can do but walk away, emotionally if not physically. Love is not a one-person job.

Is something along the lines of:

"I love you. I cannot buy you the ring you want this month. If you need to walk away, that is your choice. I really don't want you to go, but I can't and won't make you stay if you choose to leave."

Putting the choice she has back in her lap is actually more validating than trying to control her actions by promising to do what she wants, especially when you know you can't live up to it.

Have you ever tried anything like this with her before?
Logged
DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2017, 05:03:02 PM »

"I love you. I cannot buy you the ring you want this month. If you need to walk away, that is your choice. I really don't want you to go, but I can't and won't make you stay if you choose to leave."
uBPDw: "You're FORCING me to leave! It's not what I would chose, but what other choice do I have? I can't stay with someone who thinks so little of me that they wouldn't even buy me a real engagement ring. I may seem dumb to you, but I'm not an idiot. I know I'm worth a he!# of a lot more than you seem to think I'm worth. PLEASE give me another option here! Don't degrade me even further by making me beg for you to do the right thing."
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2017, 05:28:34 PM »

uBPDw: "You're FORCING me to leave! It's not what I would chose, but what other choice do I have? I can't stay with someone who thinks so little of me that they wouldn't even buy me a real engagement ring. I may seem dumb to you, but I'm not an idiot. I know I'm worth a he!# of a lot more than you seem to think I'm worth. PLEASE give me another option here! Don't degrade me even further by making me beg for you to do the right thing."

There's nothing valid in that to validate. Time to end the conversation when she says something like that.

She has the choice to stay with you while you won't buy her the ring.
She has the choice to leave you because you won't buy her the ring.

You aren't forcing her to do anything.

She may be worth it, but the money to spend on her isn't there and isn't available to you. As they say, you can't get blood from a stone.

And if she decides to beg you for it further, you aren't "making her" "degrade herself" that way. Again, the choice is hers.


BTW, I completely believe that she would say these things... .I just don't see anything valid in it that is worth responding to.
Logged
BeagleGirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 570



« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2017, 12:50:30 AM »

I'm just not sure how to process my own feelings? And is there anything else to be said to uBPDw other than using SET?

DaddyBear,
Let's start with processing your own feelings.  Not that I have a whole lot of advice because I spent 2 hours talking to my BPDh and WOMAN am I in the F.O.G. right now.  Actually, I feel more like I'm sitting in a hot tub of anger that is blanketed in F.O.G.  So please pardon me if this post is a bit stream of consciousness because I'm trying to figure out how to process my feelings as well.

I think that the first step is acknowledging that you have feelings and what they are.  At least that's key for me, because my "safety" mode is to move to reason and try to work things out like it's some giant puzzle.  And it's so giant that if I get overwhelmed with one corner, there are plenty other sections to tackle.  Okay.  So you have feelings.  What are they.  Name them.  Hang out with them and get to know them a bit.  Where did they come from?  How do you want to handle them?  How do you wish you wanted to handle them? 

Find someone to validate the feelings you are having.  I can help you here.  I have a friend that I will occasionally text "the latest drama" to and I can usually count on the response being "What the Eff?"  So that's what I have to say about your wife's text.  WHAT THE EFF?  If you weren't serious about your proposal, why did you follow through and get married?  If you weren't serious about your vows, why are you still there putting a roof over her head and putting up with her constant whining and nagging?  And I'm pretty sure that your vows did not include the words "And I will buy you whatever you want, whenever you want it, plucking the money off of the secret money tree that I have growing in a location to be disclosed upon our 50th wedding anniversary just in case I die before you and you need to tell your next husband where to find the money to keep providing for your every desire."  And I'm pretty sure that she may have said something about loving you "For richer or for poorer".  So if you didn't mean your vows, you're in good company.  And what is this "love is not a one person job" nonsense?  Does she really think that what she is doing is loving?  If what she is doing is loving, then you definitely aren't loving, because you are not subjecting her to the nagging and personal attacks and manipulation that she's subjecting you to.

Okay.  I'll hold back some vitriol for later, just in case you run out of indignation over what your wife is doing to you and D3.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Now start to imagine how you might respond (not react-I see response as an intentional behavior, while I define reaction as more "knee jerk" to the situations that are bringing up these feelings.  You are already pretty good at this, but I think you sometimes take it to the point where you have to face a fear and sound the buzzer and decide to not travel that road.  Please know that I am struggling with that exact thing (it's why I still haven't talked to my dad).

I'm going to hazard a guess that you may not need additional tools for dealing with BPDw as much as you need tools for dealing with your own fears.  In fact, you may want to try some SET on yourself.  Want to give it a try?  Maybe to address your fears around the "Buzzer points" in the scenarios where BPDw is using D3 to control your behavior?


I think I might try some SET on myself after a good night's sleep.  Smiling (click to insert in post) 

BeagleGirl

Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »

Hey DB77, I would encourage you to stay firm in your resolve.  The goal, I suggest, is to hold your position, without retreating or attacking.  In the past, I suspect you retreated when she attacked.  Now I'm suggesting something different, that you remain steadfast in your position that you can't afford the ring.  Period.  It's non-negotiable.  Got it?  You've come a long way and will be OK no matter what the outcome.

LuckyJim
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2017, 11:40:57 PM »

Just a quick update on where I am with this... .

I paid most of the mortgage payment but still gave her what amounted to about 2% of the money toward a ring. I could have really used that money to pay for lots of other overdue items, like the car payment, the equity loan, or even more of the mortgage payment. But like everything else, it was a compromise. And I'm looking back and thinking holy crap, how screwed would we be if I had given her the WHOLE mortgage payment?

I also spoke to a former therapist who basically said "well, you'd better start looking at downsizing. You probably won't stop until they foreclose so you'll need to put your family somewhere." Tough love. Still processing it.

And finally, I backed off the hard "no" but wish I hadn't.

Time to regroup my thoughts on this. Just thought I'd share a quick update.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2017, 07:41:36 AM »


What does "gave her" mean?

Is it in an account where you can both see it?

Did you give her cash?


Just to be clear, my idea of the "ring account" is so that you can both see progress each month and you both can see "reality".

You don't need to explain reality to her... .she can see it... .that's hers to deal with.

FF
Logged

GaGrl
Ambassador
********
Online Online

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 5722



« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2017, 07:42:41 AM »

What emotions are you having around what you did?
Logged


"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2017, 08:00:17 AM »


How did paying "most" of the mortgage payment help?

Did you still get a late fee?  Is the account still going to go a month late?

FF
Logged

BeagleGirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 570



« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2017, 10:55:53 AM »

DaddyBear,
Not exactly what you were hoping you could do, but still a far cry from what you believed you were capable of just a week ago.  Take time to celebrate that.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

At 2%/month it will take about 4 years for you to purchase the ring she wants.  I doubt that is an acceptable pace for her.  I'm horrible with amortization numbers, but I suspect that putting that 2% on debt could get you to a much better place in 4 years.  I'm a big fan of the Dave Ramsey "debt snowball" approach and was amazed at how quickly that pay-off snowball grew.  If you haven't heard of "debt snowball" and want details, let me know.

I think your therapist's "tough love" is something you should spend some time dwelling on.  It's a hard truth, but it is truth.  And maybe it's not just a "threat" of what is to come, but a hint at how you can find another way out of your situation.

What would "downsizing" look like?  Have you seriously looked at this, or stopped when you think about how much BPDw would flip out?  As your therapist said, downsizing may be something that is imposed on you if you don't face it on your own.  Better to have some choice (even if it's hard choices) in the matter by doing it yourself before creditors do it for you.

If you want tips on downsizing, let me know.  I've had to do it in years past and am looking at it as something that may be necessary with the separation.
Logged
DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2017, 03:30:57 PM »

FF- I gave her cash. Also, the mortgage company accepts partial payment and we are avoiding late fees by meeting the terms of the repayment plan. The thing it helps most is that it's no longer sitting in our account and no longer available to us.

Gagrl - I feel a sense of temporary relief, but a continued sense of dread and impending doom. The clock is ticking. All I did was buy another few minutes.

BG - DBwife wants the ring immediately. If not immediately then tomorrow would be acceptable I guess.

Downsizing is an interesting concept. It's obviously not going to be something that DBwife would ever go along with. I mean, she wants a 2 karat diamond ring, and I want at least a few bucks left in the account after all the bills are paid. We're so far apart on this that there's absolutely no hope of a joint agreement. That's also the truth.

Would I be willing to downsize? You bet your rear end I would! I'll call for the dumpster this afternoon, clear out 80% of the crap, and move my family to a 2 bedroom. I'll pay every bill every month, like I did for 16 years straight (perfect credit report until late 2015). Then, I'll set up a solid plan to pay back creditors. Then I'll pay for the best schooling, all the extra curriculars, summer camp, and whatever else D3 would need. Then, I'll take what's left and start saving for a new ring or whatever else we deem a family priority.

It's an impossible dream for as long as DBwife gets to have a say.

Still thinking about what T said. I'll post more about that later.

Edit: to clarify on the "perfect credit report" - for 15 years, I had at least one and usually 5 or more credit cards, mortgage, and a car payment. In 15 years, I never had a single late payment on my report. I was overextended and that lowered my rating significantly, but to make literally thousands of payments on time says a lot about my ability to make things work I think. It also emphasizes the tipping point a year or two ago.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2017, 03:57:07 PM »

FF- I gave her cash. Also, the mortgage company accepts partial payment and we are avoiding late fees by meeting the terms of the repayment plan. The thing it helps most is that it's no longer sitting in our account and no longer available to us.
 

And what has she done with it?  

I'm baffled by this choice, can you elaborate on your thinking?

When given cash, does she have a history of being a good saver, when saving for a particular goal?

FF
Logged

DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2017, 04:03:27 PM »

And what has she done with it?  

I'm baffled by this choice, can you elaborate on your thinking?
She has put it "under the mattress" so to speak.

It is not locked away in any account or encumbered in any way other than my wife's determination to chose a ring vs, say, a car payment or a home equity loan payment. I am putting the choice in her hands. What better way to learn, except that's stupid because I just said she will never go along with a better choice.

But can you please elaborate as to why you're baffled?
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2017, 04:34:09 PM »

But can you please elaborate as to why you're baffled?

How can you check on the balance, other than trusting your wife to give you the accurate accounting?

Have you ever done this before, let your wife hold cash and build it up (without spending it on other things), and then get what the funds were set aside for?

So... .I just never considered handing her a wad of cash.  If there is history here and this has reliably worked in the past, then it makes sense to me.  Go with what works.

If this is something new... .well... .from what I have seen of her personality and money management, is there a chance she will let this cash survive for 50 months (assuming 2% per month) and get a ring.

In the meantime, is she now happy with you?

I hope this works... .lots of questions.

FF

Logged

DaddyBear77
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 625



« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2017, 12:50:44 AM »

How can you check on the balance, other than trusting your wife to give you the accurate accounting?
I have no trouble trusting my wife with the cash - this is an area we have very few problems - I can trust her to tell me what happens with the money, and if she doesn't want me to know she'll tell me she doesn't want me to know. In this way, she's modeling much better behavior to me than I do to her. Besides, if she spends the money, she doesn't get a ring. The ring is REALLY important to her.

Have you ever done this before, let your wife hold cash and build it up
Yes.

is there a chance she will let this cash survive for 50 months (assuming 2% per month) and get a ring.
Yes.

In the meantime, is she now happy with you?
No. Not a bit.

 She's extremely unhappy with me. In fact, I am absolutely certain that even if I miraculously but this ring with no financial impact (e.g., win the lottery), she will never be happy with me.

We have big, big issues. With these threads I've been focusing on one or two really prominent ones, but there are many others.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2017, 07:08:27 AM »


So... .how has this decision moved the relationship towards a healthier place?  I can see some options, especially given your answers. 

I'm less interested in your answers matching mine and I'm more interested in you thinking through how your actions affect the r/s... .the dynamic between you guys.  And that you are the one making healthy decisions and your wife is reacting to you, vice the other way around.

There is a less important tactical consideration... .how did she seem when you gave her the 2%.  Did you approach her or did she badger you until you handed it over?


FF
Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2017, 07:11:06 AM »


 She's extremely unhappy with me. 

Please understand this question was a bit of a setup from me. 

Yes, she "presents" as being unhappy with you... .however we know that most of that is projection and blame shifting.

Are you ready to stop owning your wife's unhappiness?  This is "working" for her... .she hands it to you and you take it, likely as an act of compassion or love.  I'm certain this comes from a good place, it did when I did this kind of thing.

With the knowledge that you have now, is owning her unhappiness compassionate or loving?

FF
Logged

Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2017, 07:45:30 PM »

She's extremely unhappy with me. In fact, I am absolutely certain that even if I miraculously but this ring with no financial impact (e.g., win the lottery), she will never be happy with me.

Actually I'd say she's extremely unhappy... .and is blaming you / taking it out on you.

And you are correct--nothing you do will change it significantly. Might put the unhappiness aside for a little while, 'tho you are years away from meeting any of the demands which she claims will make her "happy".

Remember--the unhappiness is inside her. It is her emotional black hole. You can't fill it with diamonds or anything else.
Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2017, 10:02:25 AM »

Right, no matter what you pull off, it's doubtful that she will be happy with you, because she is unhappy with herself.  LJ
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!