Driving myself crazy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I need help.

2 years ago I was a married man, not happily but walking the straight and narrow and doing everything right.  Three kids, boy scout leader, Sunday school teacher.  I have two businesses.  One in the south and one up north where I live.  I go back and forth between the two businesses every other week.  I met a woman down south and fell in love with her.  And she fell in love with me.  She told me I was the only man she ever loved.  Which was odd because she was married three times.  But I believed her.  She literally built a shrine to me in her bedroom.  Every card, note, flower, picture I gave her was on this table in her room.  It was exhilarating.  She tattooed my name on her side.  I thought it was too soon.  I thought it was impulsive.  She got mad at me for thinking that.

It was a hidden relationship for about a year and a half.  I was so in love.  My wife found out and naturally, rightly, asked me to make a choice.  I foolishly followed my heart and said I choose this new southern one.  The minute I did, my southern love said OK I'll fly up there and stay with you.  Naturally I was a little messed up -- I was leaving my wife of 22 years, my three kids, my home, my garden, my life -- and she wanted to be by my side.  I told her -- "but I don't know where I'm even going to live, I need to figure some things out"  She got mad.  So I flew her up.

This started a cycle of us flying together back and forth every other week.  I hardly saw my kids because I couldn't explain her to them.  I could see them at the house when my wife let me.  There were times when my life didn't follow the every other week scenario we set up.  I had a boy scout trip with my son, or an important meeting with my business.  I suggested she stayed behind, that I would miss her terribly, but I'll be in contact with her constantly.

She accused me of abandoning her.

This happened often, along with a ton of other fights, all based around me being a bad person, unfaithful, looking at other women, talking to other women in a too friendly manner, etc.  I won't bore with the details.

She had property down there and we built a house together.  I put 20K into the house. I also flew her back and forth.  I also fixed her car.  I also paid her credit card debt.  I also fed her.  I also fed her horses.  I also fixed her fence.  I also cut her lawn.  I also moved her and stored her stuff.

She was grateful for none of this.

Long story short -- I had a one day meeting.  I had to fly back north.  At great expense I made sure I flew back and forth in a day so she wouldn't be upset.  But she was upset.  She said I had ulterior motives. 

She left me -- and this is my own personal weakness.  Whenever she was mad at me -- she would leave me.  Uber out, fly home, not answer my calls, disappear.  This hurt so much.  I panicked when she was gone -- felt abandoned -- almost like I had BPD.  Why couldn't we just discuss, why did she shut me out, I never would do that to her -- let's fix it.

This last time she left me, I started a conversation with a friend (girl -- I wasn't allowed to have female friends) about the situation -- who recommended I have yoga lessons with her and sort it out.  I resisted for a while until the next fight -- then I went for the lesson.  And a few more.  Nothing came of it. No romance.  She was just helping me with my head.

Long story short -- my girlfriend found out.  She was accusing me of not supporting her.  She was texting her brother to uber her out again.  She said she never gets to see my phone.  So I gave it to her with the code, knowing the converstations with yoga teacher were there -- all innocent, but unknown to her.   Of course she freaked.  She left me.  Completely.  After breaking every bulb, dish, and glass in my house.  And throwing my phone into a wall. 

I am seriously having very real problems going on.  I DID THE EXACT THING SHE ALWAYS FEARED (well not exactly, I didn't cheat -- but I did lie and hid something from her) AND SHE'S GONE.  I get an occasional text about her awful aberrant behavior at this point.  And how I'm responsible.  How its all my fault.  How evil I am. 

I am so messed up from this.  Two and a half months without her but I think about her every minute.  What can I do?  I'm in therapy but its not helping. 

I hope someone here --

1) confirms that she had BPD
2) recognizes I lost my mind in the process
3) has some helpful words that can give me hope

Me

We started getting into fights over nothing. 

So I flew her up

[Seenowayout]

I need help.

2 years ago I was a married man, not happily but walking the straight and narrow and doing everything right.  Three kids, boy scout leader, Sunday school teacher.  I have two businesses.  One in the south and one up north where I live.  I go back and forth between the two businesses every other week.  I met a woman down south and fell in love with her.  And she fell in love with me.  She told me I was the only man she ever loved.  Which was odd because she was married three times.  But I believed her.  She literally built a shrine to me in her bedroom.  Every card, note, flower, picture I gave her was on this table in her room.  It was exhilarating.  She tattooed my name on her side.  I thought it was too soon.  I thought it was impulsive.  She got mad at me for thinking that.

It was a hidden relationship for about a year and a half.  I was so in love.  My wife found out and naturally, rightly, asked me to make a choice.  I foolishly followed my heart and said I choose this new southern one.  The minute I did, my southern love said OK I'll fly up there and stay with you.  Naturally I was a little messed up -- I was leaving my wife of 22 years, my three kids, my home, my garden, my life -- and she wanted to be by my side.  I told her -- "but I don't know where I'm even going to live, I need to figure some things out"  She got mad.  So I flew her up.

This started a cycle of us flying together back and forth every other week.  I hardly saw my kids because I couldn't explain her to them.  I could see them at the house when my wife let me.  There were times when my life didn't follow the every other week scenario we set up.  I had a boy scout trip with my son, or an important meeting with my business.  I suggested she stayed behind, that I would miss her terribly, but I'll be in contact with her constantly.

She accused me of abandoning her.

This happened often, along with a ton of other fights, all based around me being a bad person, unfaithful, looking at other women, talking to other women in a too friendly manner, etc.  I won't bore with the details.

She had property down there and we built a house together.  I put 20K into the house. I also flew her back and forth.  I also fixed her car.  I also paid her credit card debt.  I also fed her.  I also fed her horses.  I also fixed her fence.  I also cut her lawn.  I also moved her and stored her stuff.

She was grateful for none of this.

Long story short -- I had a one day meeting.  I had to fly back north.  At great expense I made sure I flew back and forth in a day so she wouldn't be upset.  But she was upset.  She said I had ulterior motives. 

She left me -- and this is my own personal weakness.  Whenever she was mad at me -- she would leave me.  Uber out, fly home, not answer my calls, disappear.  This hurt so much.  I panicked when she was gone -- felt abandoned -- almost like I had BPD.  Why couldn't we just discuss, why did she shut me out, I never would do that to her -- let's fix it.

This last time she left me, I started a conversation with a friend (girl -- I wasn't allowed to have female friends) about the situation -- who recommended I have yoga lessons with her and sort it out.  I resisted for a while until the next fight -- then I went for the lesson.  And a few more.  Nothing came of it. No romance.  She was just helping me with my head.

Long story short -- my girlfriend found out.  She was accusing me of not supporting her.  She was texting her brother to uber her out again.  She said she never gets to see my phone.  So I gave it to her with the code, knowing the converstations with yoga teacher were there -- all innocent, but unknown to her.   Of course she freaked.  She left me.  Completely.  After breaking every bulb, dish, and glass in my house.  And throwing my phone into a wall. 

I am seriously having very real problems going on.  I DID THE EXACT THING SHE ALWAYS FEARED (well not exactly, I didn't cheat -- but I did lie and hid something from her) AND SHE'S GONE.  I get an occasional text about her awful aberrant behavior at this point.  And how I'm responsible.  How its all my fault.  How evil I am. 

I am so messed up from this.  Two and a half months without her but I think about her every minute.  What can I do?  I'm in therapy but its not helping. 

I hope someone here --

1) confirms that she had BPD
2) recognizes I lost my mind in the process
3) has some helpful words that can give me hope

Me

We started getting into fights over nothing. 

So I flew her up

[Mutt]

Hi Seenowayout,



I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear that you're going through a difficult time. We can't give diagnose her, only a professional can do that, what can do is look at BPD traits. I can read a couple of themes that would be BPD traits, a pwBPD fear rejection, they're hyper vigilant with rejection, they're always looking for cues that they're going to be rejected, perceived or real. Another criterion for BPD is the fear of abandonment that would have developed in early childhood, 's possible that she didn't have a caregiver that was present, or she went through abandonment, or even both.

I can see how spending time with the opposite sex would look bad, didn't she leave you though before that?

Members can relate with your pain, I completely understand how it feels like it's a pain that you might not recover from, i've never experienced a more painful experience than when my exuBPDw jumped into a r/s with another man and left me. The good news is, it's good that you're going to see a T, Maybe if it's not working for you, you could try looking for a new one? It also helps to talk to a support group concurrently, many of us here are going through or have been through what you're experience.

It helps to talk about your story, it also helps to have a r/s post mortem. I'd suggest to work on detaching from your uBPDex, the lessons are on the right side of the board. If you haven't heard from her in a couple, I suggest to self protect with no contact or minimal contact if you financial responsibilities to sort out. NC is a tool that helps us detach, it gives us the space and time that we need to recovery from the break-up, if you keep talking to her and you're struggling now, it's going to take longer to recover.

Lastly read as much as you can about the disorder, separate from all of the blame and negativity from your ex, there's a reason why she acts the way that she does, become familiar with it, what your ex is going through is not personal to you.

As I said earlier, we can offer you guidance and support, you're not alone. Hang in there.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear seenowayout-

I am so very sorry you're dealing with this devastating pain and confusion.  From the series of events and behavior you've described, it does sound as if she has some BPD traits.

Many of us here do feel that we've lost ourselves, our own minds within these relationships, so you're in very good company and most definitely among friends. 

What I can tell you is that with time, self-care, and learning about yourself and about BPD,  you will heal and recover from this experience.  You will begin to feel better.  Most of us on these boards have felt exactly or very similar to the way  you do now.  Some of our members are very experienced and you'll receive wonderful heartfelt support without judgement.

This recovery can be a painful process, but very enlightening.  I encourage you to look at the top and on the side of the board and begin reading some of the articles.  If your goal is to truly break yourself free from the relationship, then focus on yourself.   Please try to remember - You are NOT the bad names she is calling you.  And you are NOT responsible for her behavior.  People with BPD just don't have the emotional maturity to take responsibility for any of their actions.

We all make mistakes... .lesson learned.

Chin up, my friend.  You ARE going to be alright.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Zemmma]

Yes. A lot of your story sounds familiar.

Of course, when I went through it, I'd never seen anything like it. I didn't know what was going on. I was so tied into my man that I just kept defending myself from his attacks instead of stepping back and going, "Wait a minute... why am I being called EVIL?" Did she actually say evil? Because I got called that so many times. And no one else has ever suggested I am evil. Not ever. There is no evil in me. I eventually had to tell him to stop using the word. It came up so often, sometimes non-chalently... like it was just a fact, a facet of who I was. What the heck?

The jealoiusy was a big one too. He thought I was sleeping with anyone who looked my way. He thought I was flirting with the waiter, his brother, his best friend, my intern, my gay male friend. I've never been accused of being so active! And all the while, this BPD ex and I had an insanely active sex life. How much energy does he think I have?

This guy also went through my phone and computer constantly even after I caught him and freaked, even after I caught him again, and again. Even after he promised he never would do it again. He thought it was unromantic if he wasn't allowed. He thought I was hiding things if I didn't let him have access to everything. He was a Master Spy. He would eavesdrop and follow and stalk and the whole nine yards.

I am sorry for your story. Those are the points of similarity. We would all recognize this kind of behaviour if we saw it again. But when you are tied into an intoxicating love, it is hard to be objective and mind the red flags.

I am sorry you are having trouble.

[hopealways]

The married 3X + impulsivity + too quick too soon would be enough for me to get the heck out of dodge but you have to dive deep into yourself to see why you were attracted to that despite the obvious warning signs.  Don't blame yourself for her actions, no matter what you did right or wrong she would have found a reason to leave.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Seenowayout and welcome to the board  

Sorry to hear of your distressing experience.  So many of us can relate to your pain and confusion right now and you are asking some good questions to try to help yourself understand the situation better, which is wise.  You've had great responses so I won't repeat what's been said, however I'll add that for me, to understand how a BPD relationship plays out was such a light bulb moment for me.  That is when it fully dawned on me that whatever I had done we would have come to the same demise in the end, one way or another.  Unfortunately, it does sound to me like she has some BPD traits, so I thought I'd share the link with you to the article on this.  It's a tough read, in that you'll probably see a lot of what you've experienced, which can be emotional, but I hope it can also bring you some understanding and clarity of what you've been through.  For me, it brought me some peace, reduced my feelings of isolation and was the very beginning of moving on.  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

There are many great articles where this came from (Insights at the top of the page) including another of my most read ones, Surviving a Breakup with a person with BPD (direct link to this at the top of the board).

I hope that these can bring you some of the answers you crave.  Meanwhile, remember to take good care of yourself.  You've been through a lot of turmoil and need to put your well being first right now so that you can heal from that.

Love and light x

[Seenowayout]

Oh my goodness.  You people are so great!  I feel so less alone!  A few things --

1)  The friend who had experience of boyfriend calling her evil -- exactly like me.  No one in my life ever called me evil.  Ever.  Most people think I'm a generous, warm hearted giving guy.  But I obviously feel guilt over what I did to my wife, and my kids, and my life, and her over this -- so she's hitting me in a sore spot.  But it was a wake up call for me.  I know I am not evil and everything I did was to help her -- how can she see me as evil.

2.)  I am so tired of myself.  I want her and don't at the same time.  My brain knew I needed out.  She was killing me, my business, my family.  One time I told her, in an honest moment where I let my guard down "I feel like I'm losing my friends and my people", because I was -- I hadn't seen any of my buddies since I was with her.  This of course started a huge fight "how can you say that to me" and I heard about it every week since then.  But if she to me that she was losing her friends and her family, I would have said "Really?  That's sad.  Let's talk about it.  Why do you feel that way?  How can I help?"  I am right, right?  I don't even know anymore what's right or wrong.   Her famous line, everytime I had to leave, and her ending justification was "I just wanted to be with you, is that so bad".  And no!  It's wonderful.  And I just wanted to be with her, but I want to drink all day and eat chocolate all the time -- you can't always have what you want.  But it makes me feel so guilty.  Sounds so simple.  So pure.  How life should be.   How can I know she's not good for me, that I needed to end it, but still miss her soo bad.  It was the best time of my life.  And the worst. 

3.)  I recognize the source of all of this.  She had some traumatic experiences growing up.  And I had distant parents.  She is exactly like my mom.  And when girlfriend shut down I would  try to cheer her up, do anything I could, promise anything, just like I did for my mom.  We were codependent.  I want to fix everything, including her.  She needs someone who will tell her how great she is all the time.  A perfect match made in Hell.  But why am I dealing with this now, at this stage in my life?  How can I know the source but still have difficulty dealing with it?

Thank you again for listening and understanding.  Maybe you won't have answers to these points, but just the fact I have someone to say them to is so healing for me.

And you give me hope.  Eventually I may get my best self back.

Me

[roberto516]

1)  The friend who had experience of boyfriend calling her evil -- exactly like me.  No one in my life ever called me evil.  Ever.  Most people think I'm a generous, warm hearted giving guy.  But I obviously feel guilt over what I did to my wife, and my kids, and my life, and her over this -- so she's hitting me in a sore spot.  But it was a wake up call for me.  I know I am not evil and everything I did was to help her -- how can she see me as evil.

Maybe the guilt I have for some things finally has something positive to come from it. I called my ex evil, mean, a fraud, etc. after she used me for help the last time and then began to push away. I had called her mean things before that as well after the first recycle and discard. But I digress.

The reason I said those things to her was because of my own internal feelings about myself which I projected outward. I was mad at myself for being in this situation. Mad at myself for knowing it was a recycle and nothing of any substance but I still did it. I was also mad at feeling rejected by her. After all I did for her? How could she? But it wasn't her. It was my reaction to it. She didn't deserve it, and I did send apologies after each rage (but she probably saw it as the boy who cried wolf).

I'm telling you all this because if she is saying those things to you there is a good chance it's her own internal anger at herself being projected out. I guess the only difference is that I felt so absolutely terrible after saying those things that I would message her and tell her all about the internal projection etc. It doesn't seem like your ex has apologized for any of those words?

So don't beat yourself up. She's not me naturally but it's easier to direct anger outward to others (blame them) than it is to look inside as to why we are angry at ourselves. Which it seems is what many people with BPD traits (and 99% of people on this earth) do.

[Mutt]

Hi Seenowayout,

I'm telling you all this because if she is saying those things to you there is a good chance it's her own internal anger at herself being projected out.

She has an internal script that she's not aware of that she's playing out, you're cast as persecutor and the source of all of her issues. BPD is a persecution complex where the person truly believes that their problems are caused not by their own choices and actions, they think that it's caused externally by others. BPD is a serious mental illness.

You know yourself that you made some mistakes, I think that it's a good question to ask yourself, why now? I'm just drawing from my personal experience and you don't have to take it, maybe someone else can use it, I had abandonment and trauma that I hadn't dealt with, I just buried it and I tried to run from it, it's like that saying wherever you go there you are.

Also, we tend to pick partners that are emotionally equivalent, maybe this role that you played out in the past was familiar and comfortable, codependency are skills learned at a stage in our lives where we were trying to survive in dysfunctional families, it doesn't serve a useful purpose now.

Maybe you reached a point where you didn't feel fulfilled and felt like you were missing out on something, maybe your exuBPDgf felt like the missing piece of the puzzle, maybe you felt like you had to chase it because you might regret if you hadn't.

Again you don't have to take from my experience, maybe you'll find it useful or not. When I met my exuBPDw it felt like she soothed old emotional wounds from my past, everything just felt perfect and calm, for a little while anyways. I was yearning for that woman that idealized me in the beginning to resurface, I wanted that validation.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear seenowayout-

We are all a reflection of you... .you said above, "it was the best time of my life".  "And the worst".   I too thought the first part was true.  But after some time, the horrible words, actions,and isolation associated with the worst time of your life can have a way of canceling out that "best time".  I waited a long time for that amazing man I first met to return.  I would see hints of him here and there, but he never truly came back to me.  And when I let him leave for the last time, I finally felt I could breathe.

You have some incredible insights into and awareness of yourself; your place in the relationship, ways in which you were becoming isolated (and would become more so), and the methods she used to flip your words to suit her purposes. 

The "why now" question... .I asked myself that question too.  I buried my traumas and forgave everything in order to avoid conflict at all costs.  Until I couldn't anymore.  Maybe that's where you landed when she left for the last time.  Maybe because it simply had not come up as painfully for you before. 

If you're asking the question how can you know she's so bad for you, but still miss her so much... .some people have addictive traits (sorry, but I can no longer call it a "quality" to them.  They HAVE to, or with some of their behaviors, no one would venture anywhere near them.  In the beginning of the relationship, my BPD ex-boyfriend was the most amazing, wonderful, loving, helpful, giving, handsome man I'd ever known.  And then BOOM!  And after he begged my forgiveness for his first unprovoked rage, and I forgave that , he started to see what else I would forgive.  So as I said above, I was "waiting" for that original man to return.

It is likely similar for you.  She was close to perfect during your courtship.  You would not have sacrificed what you did for anything less than your ideal woman.  And she knew that.

Forgive me,  it's very late and I may not be making any sense.

Please try to be kind to yourself.  You followed for heart.  You believed in someone.  We all did.  Please believe in yourself now.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Seenowayout]

It's maddening.  It's like the death of my best friend.  We talked and texted every hour of every day for the last two years.  We lived together.  We shared everything.  How she can completely cut me off like this?  It's a real death but there's no one to mourn with.  My friends think I'm crazy (maybe I am).  My family is getting sick of hearing about it.  And of course she's in fact very much alive.  Thank God for you folk.  Are there actual groups that meet in person?

I get an occasional text from her -- telling me "she's in Satan's den", "she's back to her wayward ways", "she's a lost little waif" and it's all my fault!  Funny, I'm supposed to be the evil one but in this time of intense pain I'm on my knees begging God for forgiveness and deliverance -- I shudder to think what she's doing in Satan's den.  And she's hitting me right where I'm always weakest, what she always did -- I am bad, I don't treat her right, she's lost because of me -- and I want to save her, and I fall right back into it.  So maddening.  My head knows one thing, but my heart does something else.  I'm a self made man.  Put myself through college.  Raised three beautiful kids.  Successful in business.  But this -- I'm so weak!  I feel crazy.

As mentioned in the initial piece -- I put 20K into her house.  I could really use the money.  I'm in debt.  And it irks me that she's living in that house doing God knows what -- I'm sleeping alone on an air mattress.  Should I try to get the money back?  Or am I just using it as an excuse for contact again.

Sorry -- this thing has ups and downs.  I can be quite resolute and strong during the day -- then something hits me -- especially at night -- and I'm almost anxious about it.  Gonna read the side bar hear that says detachment leads to freedom.  Hope that helps.

You folks have been very helpful.  Anything you got to say, I appreciate. 

With sincere gratitude,
Me

[Seenowayout]

I screwed up.  I didn't wait for advice regarding whether I should try to ask her for the money back I invested in her house.

I left her a voice mail asking for the money I put into our home, since it appears there's no resolution possible, and I don't think its fair she walks off with that much when I'm sleeping on an air mattress.

Later that night her brother and apparently her boyfriend text bombed me all night long.  Threatening me with physical violence.  Calling me all kinds of names.  Her brother and I used to be so friendly.  I understand him siding with his sister, but its like all common sense went out the window.  And her boyfriend -- ugh. 

This  boyfriend was sending me pictures of them together, insulting me sexually, and sent a pic of his private part with some girls hand on him -- sure looked like hers.

That was enough for me!  Reality check.  Done and done.

But then she texts late that night, saying "Hey Help Me!".  I didn't see it until the morning.  I told her I would always be there to help her.  What could I do?  She said she loved me.  She said this was turning her into someone she didn't even know.  She said I was the only real love she ever had in her life, her first real love, and she still has my name inked on her skin.  Then a bunch of mumbo jumbo.  then she said I had to stop contacting her and she blocked me again.

And here I am stuck staring at her pictures, thinking maybe there's a chance to get back together.  KNOWING that would be the worse thing for me.

God -- I am so weak!  What the heck is going on here?  I really think I am crazy.

HELP!

[Mutt]

Hi Seenowayout,

Wow what a terrible experience to go through. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with her brother. Do you think that it warrants to call the police if he's physically threatening you?

But then she texts late that night, saying "Hey Help Me!".  I didn't see it until the morning.  I told her I would always be there to help her.

I can see that you're a compassionate guy, you can have compassion with boundaries, don't rescue. Rescue animals don't rescue people.

What could I do?  She said she loved me.  She said this was turning her into someone she didn't even know.  She said I was the only real love she ever had in her life, her first real love, and she still has my name inked on her skin.

BPD is emotional arrested development, the emotional maturity is equivalent to a 2 or 3 year old, she's exaggerating like a small child would. Also a pwBPD have black and white thinking, I bet you were split white when she said that and now as far as her telling you not to call her you're split black, she sees you as either all good or all bad, we're really somewhere in the middle.

And here I am stuck staring at her pictures, thinking maybe there's a chance to get back together.  KNOWING that would be the worse thing for me.

Don't be hard on yourself. I'd decide with what you want to do with the 20K, if you intend to get it back from her or not, if you do choose to get it back from her, I would go through a third party and not deal with her directly, a lawyer for example. If you do get an L, have everything go through him,  tell her that she can go through your L.

I'd also suggest controlled contact, if you choose to get your money back, then just focus on that, only deal with the legal stuff to eventually wrap things up. Put the boundary on yourself to not respond to anything outside of that, don't give her personal information, don't JADE ( Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain ), don't talk about the r/s that you had. If you need to say something to her, just say it once and let your words stand, that way you make yourself a small target for potential conflict.

[Helplessly]

I screwed up.  I didn't wait for advice regarding whether I should try to ask her for the money back I invested in her house.

I left her a voice mail asking for the money I put into our home, since it appears there's no resolution possible, and I don't think its fair she walks off with that much when I'm sleeping on an air mattress.

Later that night her brother and apparently her boyfriend text bombed me all night long.  Threatening me with physical violence.  Calling me all kinds of names.  Her brother and I used to be so friendly.  I understand him siding with his sister, but its like all common sense went out the window.  And her boyfriend -- ugh. 

This  boyfriend was sending me pictures of them together, insulting me sexually, and sent a pic of his private part with some girls hand on him -- sure looked like hers.

That was enough for me!  Reality check.  Done and done.

But then she texts late that night, saying "Hey Help Me!".  I didn't see it until the morning.  I told her I would always be there to help her.  What could I do?  She said she loved me.  She said this was turning her into someone she didn't even know.  She said I was the only real love she ever had in her life, her first real love, and she still has my name inked on her skin.  Then a bunch of mumbo jumbo.  then she said I had to stop contacting her and she blocked me again.

And here I am stuck staring at her pictures, thinking maybe there's a chance to get back together.  KNOWING that would be the worse thing for me.

God -- I am so weak!  What the heck is going on here?  I really think I am crazy.

HELP!

Whoa brother... . Read your entire last post to yourself.  You have kids.  Ask yourself how you would respond if it were one of your grown children typing that last post.  I'm trying to give you perspective.

I made the mistake of getting together with my recent ex gf over drinks this past Friday.  Looking back, it was just to get a dose, or supply.  A scrap.  I learned from foolishly looking at her instagram last week that she moved on pretty quickly with a new guy.  Total stud.  By the time we had one drink at my house she was showing me a bracelet that her "friends" mother gave her.  I saw a tear well up in her eye from joy.  It was the same way she reacted when my family gave her some Christmas gifts 18 months ago.  I was ALLOWING myself to watch her new honeymoon period and it's only been weeks since I was last with her.  I saw a glimmer in her eye that looked like satisfaction.  Thank god I didn't react.

What I'm trying to say is that the entire exchange with her, her brother, and her boyfriend, was self torture.  Please do not look at any more images from the new boyfriend.  That was simple assault.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I'm in tears right now because I can feel your pain.  I think I was on my way to a masochistic episode on Friday.  You were bombarded with the exploitation of the worst fears we all have when leaving a partner.  All I think about is her with the new guy in bed, lounging about.

We all are asking ourselves who are we and who did we become?  Regardless of any BPD diagnosis I'm convinced that at the very least, I was with a chameleon who has deep rooted issues stemming from her past.  

It's hard to connect with our own children after these things.  My daughter got pissed at me a few weeks ago and sent me a text saying, "while you're there pitying yourself, you have two kids who should mean more to you."  I responded with a well worded apology and clarification.  But in truth it was hollow.  I'm consumed.

[Seenowayout]

Mutt -- Black and white completely.  Before I knew about BPD I would say -- you are like the Old Testament God, unforgiving, vengeful, everything is Black and White -- I'm more New Testament -- compassion, compromise, mercy, forgiveness, understanding.  She would just look at me with a blank expression. 

And she would define me.  Tell me what I was when I wasn't.  Made me crazy.

In that vein -- she can have the money.  Expensive lesson learned.  I don't want to hurt her anymore.  I really just wanted to talk to her.

Helplessly -- yes, if my son said to me the things I'm saying I would shake him and say wake the heck up.  If any of my buddies did I would do the same.  I want to shake myself!  Nothing is working.

I just keep picking at the wound.  Insanity.  I feel your hollowness.  Walking dead.  Actually numb wouldn't be so bad.  So sick of myself

[Mutt]

Hi Seenowayout,

Nothing is working.

Have you tried no contact? Did your T suggest no contact?

[Seenowayout]

Thanks Mutt.  There essentially is NC.  She has me blocked on her phone and social media.  But she will occasionally get through and send me a text or I will find a way to do same.  And all the ghosts come rushing back.  She wants me to block her so she can't possibly message me.  I don't know why I want her so strongly, and don't want her, at the same time.

I was going to ask about T and might make a separate post about it.  His whole angle is my whole life I have been suppressing emotion and I overly intellectualize everything.  So I sit there for 90 minutes and he makes me "feel" stuff.  The problem I'm having with it is all I've been doing all day long is feeling!  I'm sick of feeling! 

Is this really a cure?  He's right on many levels, I have self destructive tendencies, self loathing, arrogance to think I can change someone, codependency traits -- I wouldn't be in this mess if I were any other way, I get it.  And I know it comes from my childhood.  But I'm not seeing how to cure it!  I'm not seeing how feeling sad about things I did or mad about things that were done to me is going to get me out of this mess.  It hasn't for the last 2 months anyway.

I guess it's like that for the other side, for the poor BPD, who knows what they have and how they are but don't know how to stop it.

Stinks

[roberto516]

I was going to ask about T and might make a separate post about it.  His whole angle is my whole life I have been suppressing emotion and I overly intellectualize everything.  So I sit there for 90 minutes and he makes me "feel" stuff.  The problem I'm having with it is all I've been doing all day long is feeling!  I'm sick of feeling! 

There is a difference between "feeling" and rumination. Not saying you are doing it but I only know this so well because I do it. When I am thinking about her, our situation, where I went wrong, what I wish would happen, etc I'm not really feeling. I'm thinking. The trick is to bring yourself back to the feeling that is happening. And then you can do a couple things with that feeling. Figure out why it's a feeling being projected outward and why it really is effecting you. For example, sadness might be because you lost something special to you. Which is okay. YOu don't have to go into what you did lose. Or you can embrace the feeling and figure out why there is love behind it. Sadness, for example. The love behind it is that you care about things in your life that are important to you. It's you brain and heart telling you that you are a caring human being. Hope this makes sense and can help in anyway. I struggle all day with this but I know it's the path to healing.

[Mutt]

Hi Seenowayout,

You're doing talk therapy. Have you heard of CBT? Maybe ask for a T experienced in CBT? CBT is part talk talk therapy and part finding new methods for coping. For example I have anxiety and depression, I take medication and I had a T experienced with CBT, we came up with new ways to cope and exercising was something that she suggested, I exercise to keep the anxiety and depression at levels that are manageable.

[Seenowayout]

Hi Roberto -- I'll have to ruminate on that.    I hear what you're saying, and I kinda grasp it ... .there is a difference between feeling and thinking about the feeling.  I like the idea of having the feeling and then letting it go.  Maybe I'll get there.

Hi Mutt -- as a matter of fact I asked the T about CBT.  I even bought a book on it!  He said "No -- that's the opposite of what we are trying to do here.  If you go down that road we are wasting time in my office."  But I know I have anxiety and depression too.  I'm dealing with it by too much running, too much exercising, too much drinking and now I'll try too much feeling.  I might throw some meditation in the mix.

I just need to man up.

Thanks for the feedback guys.  This message board has honestly been the most helpful thing I've done in this whole process.  Thank you thank you. 

[roberto516]

Hi Mutt -- as a matter of fact I asked the T about CBT.  I even bought a book on it!  He said "No -- that's the opposite of what we are trying to do here.  If you go down that road we are wasting time in my office."  But I know I have anxiety and depression too.  I'm dealing with it by too much running, too much exercising, too much drinking and now I'll try too much feeling.  I might throw some meditation in the mix.

Not saying I agree wholeheartedly with you T's views but I fully understand where he is coming from. I will still harp back to what someone said on someone else's post maybe a few days (if only I could remember who!). She said her T told her that when life hands you lemons you don't have to immediately make lemonade. Which I agree with. I feel like your T is trying to have you instead focus on "Why do I feel this way because life has given me lemons? What can I do to accept this feeling and be more aware of why I do the next time life gives me lemons. It's much more painful than merely disproving faulty/irrational thoughts and such. But, to me and only my opinion, this approach will really help us grow by leaps and bounds. We may get to a day where certain emotions are embraced by us and not just rationalized or talked away. Just my two cents but it really made me think. I think your T might be onto something.

The way I look at it for my own recovery is that if I find things to do which will keep the feelings at bay then I am just trying to shut the door in the feelings face. Well guess what? They are feelings. They will always break down doors and barriers we throw up to stop them. The trick for me, which I am trying to learn through meditation and self-awareness, is to open the door for the emotion. Invite it in for some coffee and a nice chat. Honestly, if I can keeping work on it then I will be unstoppable in my overall mental well being. Which will be really cool to achieve as 99% of people on this earth seem to run from their feelings or try to make them go away at all costs.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Seenowayout,

Feelings are like visitors.  Let them come and go. This is something my ex counsellor had on the front of her notebook and I remember all the time.  Moral is, pushing them down they go nowhere but instead stay inside us and fester.  In time if you pile enough of them in there they must find a way out.  Trust me, I'm living proof.  I've done it my whole life and now it is ALL coming back to haunt me in one go.  Not a pleasant experience I tell you. 

So very much as roberto says, invite them in for a coffee and a chat and learn what you must from them. 

I only wish I'd done my two mindfulness courses soo many years sooner!  Both have taught me different principles and the underlying simple message is the same.  Acceptance, compassion and kindness.  Accept the feeling, allow it to just be, in that moment.  Don't judge it, or try to get it to move.  Treating it like a guest in your own home rather than fighting with it will allow it to pass more quickly and it will leave more readily. 

You mentioned possibly throwing in some meditation, so here's a link to some decent free downloads if you decide to give them a spin:

https://chrisgermer.com/meditations/ 

I hope you find these helpful if you try them out.  Just cherry pick anything that sounds interesting or valid to you.

Love and light x

[Emotions]

I have yet to reply to your post because I don't want to give my honest opinion... .but here goes, and obviously I know nothing about you or your ex, so take this with a grain of salt... .she sounds extremely hideous, and outright evil... .I can't imagine going through what you are going through, and if I got some of the replies from her or your replacement that you got I think it would be clear to me not only to move on, but go as emotionally far away from her as I could and not look back... .just reading about the picture you got was enough to gross me out, and I'm lucky I never got one of these with my ex (yet)... .that doesn't mean you aren't going through the difficulties and chemical bonds that these relationships create, but she seems like WAY TOO MUCH trouble, even for a bad boy, which it sounds like you are not (which is a good thing)... .I suggest you go back to the road of virtue and walk towards the light, every day will get brighter, and you will count your lucky stars you don't have to think of her anymore... .just my two cents, sorry if I sound ignorant... .peace love and virtue be with you brothers and sisters... .

[Seenowayout]

Woundhealer -- everytime I try to reply to your private message I get a reply back that you are not receiving messages at this time.  I tried several times.

Emotions -- thank you.  I told my sister the story today and she wanted to smack me.  She's like what's wrong with you?  And all I could say is I don't know.  I appreciate you using the word evil, since she used that on me so often.  All I wanted was my money back.  The response was completely out of proportion.  I would never ever do that to her.  And then for her to come back and say "save me" -- its maddening.

Harley Quinn -- I'm beginning to understand the suppressed emotion thing.  It's going to take a while for me to feel it   but I know its the way out.  Thank you for the tips on the meditation. 

You guys are great. 

[KnightWithoutArmour]

You cheated on your wife and family. How is everyone ignoring this?

This kind of deception was what hurt the most for me, and here we're just ignoring that part?

You made an huge error of judgement. How hypocrite to write on these boards about how you've felt left behind - how does your ex-wife through 22 year feel?

You say to man up - yes, do that - towards your ex-wife and family.

[Seenowayout]

You are right Knight.  Absolutely right.  Part of my problem. 

[roberto516]

You cheated on your wife and family. How is everyone ignoring this?

This kind of deception was what hurt the most for me, and here we're just ignoring that part?

You made an huge error of judgement. How hypocrite to write on these boards about how you've felt left behind - how does your ex-wife through 22 year feel?

You say to man up - yes, do that - towards your ex-wife and family.

This is a support group. In time, each of us might come to the realization that we played a part and did things we are not proud of. If someone comes to an AA meeting, for example, and talks about infidelity, lying or cheating as a result of their addiction the person isn't going to find support to work on themselves if the room stands up and hurls insults at him for being a human.

I understand what you mean. But we, like our exe's, are human. Sometimes it's okay to be angry at them, ourselves, or others. Sometimes it's okay to be sad or anxious or grief stricken. We are all here because in some way we are/were damaged individuals ourselves with our own faults. The trick is, after we grieve and go through the absolute heartache and dread of losing someone we care about, to then look to ourselves to figure out why we were in that situation in the first place and what role we played based on our own worldview.

Seenowayout, it's okay to grieve right now and seek support. I did things I was not proud of in my relationship. And by seeing that other people have their own faults it actually allows me to have more sympathy for my ex (sometimes... .usually it's still anger ). In time you will really gain insight into it as it seems like you are already starting to.

[Seenowayout]

Thank you so much Roberto

So many facets to all of this, so many truths.

There are reasons she's my ex, reasons outside of my affair.  Not getting into it.

But manning up is probably part of the problem.  I was all stiff upper lip, nose to the grind stone, do the right thing, swallow the emotion, take the crap, be invisible to my wife -- and like it.  If I said I wanted more sex or more attention or more anything I was a selfish jerk.  So I manned up.

Until I was taken away by an all consuming love -- I wasn't looking for it.  I didn't believe it existed.  But it was real and it was impossible to hold on to  -- because I had to surrender EVERYTHING -- all my time, all my pride, myself.  This time I had to man up and take the scoldings, take the insecurities, take her defining me and thinking I was a bad person -- stiff upper lip, nose to the grindstone, grin and bear it, man up.  because as she said over and over "I only want to be with you, is that so bad".  No, I guess that was beautiful.  Man up.  Take it.

Until I couldn't anymore.

And now I don't know what end is up.

[Emotions]

I have a hard time with the phrase, man up... .or be a man, or whatever that means... .I probably cried three times as much as my ex... .I am a vegetarian, I have long hair (although the top part Is thinning at an alarming rate)  I have as much courage as anyone I have ever met, however, and one can only show true courage in times of strife and in the face of fear... .so I have many so called "feminine" qualities, but my suggestion to anyone reading this is to be GENUINE, regardless of whatever social stigma comes with it... .that way we can look ourselves in the mirror and like what we see, and be thankful we were true to ourselves... .

[Harley Quinn]

I dislike the phrase 'man up'.  It suggests to me that a man shouldn't feel emotions, or should put up with something unreasonable.  I believe that either notion is ridiculous and in this day and age where I paint my 3 year old's nails if he wants me to and buy him a 'Shine' doll (from Shimmer and Shine) if he loves it, I really do think we ought to be past sexual definitions that divide us.  Why should anyone be expected to tolerate the intolerable?  Follow your heart.  We all hurt people, make mistakes, have regrets, dream, fall in love - we are all fallible and I never hear anyone say 'woman up' so can we maybe scrap that idea?  Just a thought.

Love and light x