Can you recover from cheating?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm sharing my most shameful moment. I apologize for being too long. I was married for 15 years and we started talking about something not working in our marriage, well, she did. She had done it in the past in times of stress or bad news. It usually was gone in a few days. But I tried to renew my efforts every time.
But this time I started thinking... .I don't complain, but am I happy? Does she try, or she just blames me and wants me to work for us, while she doesn't? I started talking to people about this, and thinking, and realizing more and more I was in a very unbalanced relationship (Months later my therapist label it as abusive, and said that she never respected me). I knew I focused on giving, and I though It was fine, but I realized I couldn't give more, I couldn't give away more of my space to make room for what she wanted.

I did a last try. I organized a big aniversary surprise party, almost a second wedding... .It backfired, she wasn't ready for that, and she made me cry that day with her comments after months of planning. She was focused on a big trip that she wanted to do, and I didn't. Days later I put all my thinking in writing, I organized my thoughts, and I wrote a long letter, saying what I needed to keep going forward. I cook a meal, I gave her a massage (it was my job), we had a nice time. And I asked her to read that, I told her what it was. She said she read it later... .I had to leave the house for a meeting, and I asked her to please read it, because it was important... .When I came back, she hadn't read it. She kept it for 10 days before reading it.

I had put my last hope there, and she not reading it, killed it. Every day that passed waiting, I felt my marriage dying. I felt she didn't care at all about me.

After the aniversary I started mailing a woman, we knew each other form an online college. We started talking and we clicked, as friends. I didn't want to badmouth my wife with our common friends, so I found on her a sympathetic ear, that lived far. I learned that she was in an abusive marriage, much worse than mine, with kids, I didn't even know her age, I thought she was a middle aged woman, we confided on each other.

After feeling hopeless in my marriage, I started being hooked to this new friendship. I though my wife had been thinking about leaving me for a while, she even told me she wanted my blesing for flirting with other guys to feel atractive. I found myself eager to say good morning to my new friend. We seemed to understand each other.

She had her own history, so it get to a point where she reported her husband for abuse. After that I wanted to be supportive to her, and keep an eye on her everyday, so we started chatting in real time. I knew she had tried to kill herself before. She loved her husband, and lived far. I knew I was having feelings for her, but I thought we would never meet in person.

I didn't know what to do with my wife, we seemed to lead separate lives, she had been my only girlfriend in my life, I had never broken up with anyone. I felt very attached to her, as family, we went through a lot together, good and bad. I felt she was a good friend, my sister, my daughter and my mother, all in one. But couple's stuff, it didn't feel right anymore. I felt guilty about not wanting sex, or going out, or traveling together. I felt worn out. We had this huge trip, and she took me with her so I could carry her luggage, and we barely spoke on that trip. And I was convinced it was our last. That on returning home, she would ask me for a divorce. Me, I didn't know what I needed to have hope again, to want to stay, but It felt really painful to think about leaving her. I was crying, and shaking at random moments, I had anxiety episodes, I seemed to think one thing at one time and 2 hours later I thought the opposite. I was really lost.

My new, platonic friend, seem to be the only good thing. We mostly talked about problems, but one day we discovered that both had feelings for each other. It turned out that she had been atracted to me since before we started mailing, she had been folowing my posts in a literature forum. So as my marriage was falling appart, my conversations with her became increasingly unappropriate. This was already cheating. I give here a lot of excuses, but I know it is. I never thought I would do this to my wife.

Once, she came to my city for a weekend, and we wanted to meet. I thought maybe it was all an illusion, so maybe I meet her, and things would get clear in my caotic mind. I told my wife, I told her I had feelings for this woman, and that the only chance I saw to stay, it was to realice this wasn't real. We met, and... .we kissed. We talk and we hold hands, hugged, and it felt like we knew each other from always. I was hard to not go to find a place to have sex, it was crazy. So, no, I ended up more confused. After that we cut the contact, and picked it up again many times. We talked as lovers, then friends, then said we couldn't be friends, that we should change phone numbers and never talk again... .It was a really convoluted time. But then I was oficially a cheater. This went on for months, I thought "I can't leave right around her birthday" , then Christmas, then her father was dying... ."

With my wife we made a pact of no sex. I had all range of emotions, I wanted to die to stop hurting this two women I loved (in different ways).

My friend ended up living in my city with her kids. I left my home and went to live with a sister. Not yet filing for divorce. I tried to stay appart from her, but eventually we met and we had sex.

I felt terribly guilty, so I stopped contact again. I fell sick, and my wife told me she had a right to take care of me while I was sick. I didn't know what to do, that broke my heart. She was fighting for me through the humilliation of being cheated on... .I felt the most despicable guy on Earth. And I felt I didn't have a home. So I came back. I didn't came back as a husband. I was crying all the time and I avoided her. I knew it wouldn't work. If I was to stay, I had to tell my wife I had sex with my friend. But if I was going to leave, I thought it would only cause more pain.  I thought I owed to my wife to tell her face to face I was leaving.  But of course, this broke my friend's heart.

Some weeks later, I left for good. I told my wife, and it was the most terrible moment of my life. I felt I didn't deserve her sadness. I was hoping to find a quiet place to kill myself.

I met with a lot of friends, I went to therapy, and eventually I started talking to my friend again. I figured better than killing myself, all this pain shouldn't be for nothing. I loved this woman, and maybe I could be good for her and her kids. Maybe some good could come out of all that pain. I missed my wife a lot, everything reminded me of her. So my friend didn't trust me. But I knew I didn't want to come back. I tried to be a friend, but it was impossible to keep things in the friend zone when the kids weren't around. This was still hard. Some months later, I had done my grieving, and I was ready to ask her if she wanted to be my girlfriend, I was hopeful again, and open to happyness.

My ex-wife was in a relationship after a month of my leaving. I thought we could both be happier eventually. I still had her in social media, and I tried to cheer her up, to show there were no hate or hard feelings, that there was nothing wrong with her. If she posted a pic, I said "you look good" "I'm glad you're having a good time". All my friends were common friends. I felt guilty and I wanted to minimize the blow to her self esteem. My gf wasn't in social media, but I left everything public, because I didn't want to hide. My gf knew every thought and every tear I sed about my ex, so I though she would interpret things in context when she read it. She hated social media, she is very private, so I didn't posted about her there.

Then my ex decided to block me from her phone and social media, to move on. She was still more affected that I thought, that made me sad, to still cause pain when I tought she had moved on. And my gf took this as a signal that I must have been stalking my ex. Then her sister came phising in my FB, and I had just anounced that I had been blocked, I was sad, and asked our friends to take care of my ex. The sister asked my gf if she was sure I wasn't in love with my ex. My gf went in my FB and read about all my life with my ex, she saw pictures of my past, and those maybe 5-6 coments that were along 5 months, but she read all in the same day, and felt hugely betrayed. She also felt she had broken a nice life.

She has never trusted me since. I had rented a place with a room for her kids, I had introduced them to my family and friends, they came to my parents golden wedding. They were given a place in my family. I had asked her to live with me. But a comment from someone that didn't know me at all, and everything good weighted nothing. I felt betrayed too, I got that she felt betrayed and that she supected. Not one friend thought I had any desire of coming back to my ex wife, but she that knew me better than anyone, was sure I was lying. I thought it was karma for cheating my ex. But I had told my gf every shameful though, every tough truth, I didn't lie to her, ever. I hadn't been honest to my ex, and that almost killed me. I thought being honest was my one good sure thing. And even if it was ugly, I had told my GF everything, and she didn't believe me. When I tried to explain, she got really mad. She couldn't understand why I hadn't deleted all my past's pictures. I thought that was hiding things from her, what was in the past, was in the past.

From then on, she stoped believing most of what I said. We argued a lot about that. I got that she could felt suspicious, but I think I showed her plenty of evidence against her fears. Any time I used my phone, she asumed I was cheating, whether with my ex, or after, some imaginary new friends. Also, that I would talk about her with everyone. Once I learned that she hated that I could talk about her, I stopped sharing information with friends. When she got sick from anorexia, and then BPD I found anonimous support.

Everytime things were good and I thought she was over it, she came back with new suspicion, that sounded ridiculous to me.

3 years later, and one living together (every minute I'm not at work, I'm with them) And she still doesn't trust me.

Now that she knows about her BPD she things she'll never be over her paranoid thinking. So we must break up. When she split on me, she remembers everything wrong that has happened, and it's like it happened yesterday. She brings back that I'm a cheater, and I'm disgusting, so she can stop feeling sorry about being mean to me. Then she wonders if that's all in her head (she doesn't believe me, but she thinks this is not enough to hate me so much), and she feels too "crazy" to stay in a relationship. Either way, she says she can't be with me.

She has no way to go with the kids, no job, house, and no support. But she keeps saying our days are numbered. I don't know what to do to fight for her. I'm trying to think about a life after she leaves. But It kills me that what's keeping us appart is a number of things that none of them are real. She took any new suspicion as a confirmation (a fact, proof) that I can't be trusted. I'm afraid of looking at the phone to check the time, or to read one of HER texts, because if she sees me, she asumes I'm cheating.

After a while, I didn't answer, I didn't JADE. But she takes that as adknowledging she is right. If I tell her that there is no point saying her acusations are false, then she takes it as I'm calling her irrational and crazy. It makes me sad that she doesn't see I live for them. I spend all my salary and some saving every month to support them, I'm all the time with them, I'm always looking for things to do with them, and ways to help them... .

She has other reasons to split, other times. But this trust issue keeps resurfacing again and again.

Is it possible to be trusted again?

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sharing my most shameful moment. I apologize for being too long. I was married for 15 years and we started talking about something not working in our marriage, well, she did. She had done it in the past in times of stress or bad news. It usually was gone in a few days. But I tried to renew my efforts every time.
But this time I started thinking... .I don't complain, but am I happy? Does she try, or she just blames me and wants me to work for us, while she doesn't? I started talking to people about this, and thinking, and realizing more and more I was in a very unbalanced relationship (Months later my therapist label it as abusive, and said that she never respected me). I knew I focused on giving, and I though It was fine, but I realized I couldn't give more, I couldn't give away more of my space to make room for what she wanted.

I did a last try. I organized a big aniversary surprise party, almost a second wedding... .It backfired, she wasn't ready for that, and she made me cry that day with her comments after months of planning. She was focused on a big trip that she wanted to do, and I didn't. Days later I put all my thinking in writing, I organized my thoughts, and I wrote a long letter, saying what I needed to keep going forward. I cook a meal, I gave her a massage (it was my job), we had a nice time. And I asked her to read that, I told her what it was. She said she read it later... .I had to leave the house for a meeting, and I asked her to please read it, because it was important... .When I came back, she hadn't read it. She kept it for 10 days before reading it.

I had put my last hope there, and she not reading it, killed it. Every day that passed waiting, I felt my marriage dying. I felt she didn't care at all about me.

After the aniversary I started mailing a woman, we knew each other form an online college. We started talking and we clicked, as friends. I didn't want to badmouth my wife with our common friends, so I found on her a sympathetic ear, that lived far. I learned that she was in an abusive marriage, much worse than mine, with kids, I didn't even know her age, I thought she was a middle aged woman, we confided on each other.

After feeling hopeless in my marriage, I started being hooked to this new friendship. I though my wife had been thinking about leaving me for a while, she even told me she wanted my blesing for flirting with other guys to feel atractive. I found myself eager to say good morning to my new friend. We seemed to understand each other.

She had her own history, so it get to a point where she reported her husband for abuse. After that I wanted to be supportive to her, and keep an eye on her everyday, so we started chatting in real time. I knew she had tried to kill herself before. She loved her husband, and lived far. I knew I was having feelings for her, but I thought we would never meet in person.

I didn't know what to do with my wife, we seemed to lead separate lives, she had been my only girlfriend in my life, I had never broken up with anyone. I felt very attached to her, as family, we went through a lot together, good and bad. I felt she was a good friend, my sister, my daughter and my mother, all in one. But couple's stuff, it didn't feel right anymore. I felt guilty about not wanting sex, or going out, or traveling together. I felt worn out. We had this huge trip, and she took me with her so I could carry her luggage, and we barely spoke on that trip. And I was convinced it was our last. That on returning home, she would ask me for a divorce. Me, I didn't know what I needed to have hope again, to want to stay, but It felt really painful to think about leaving her. I was crying, and shaking at random moments, I had anxiety episodes, I seemed to think one thing at one time and 2 hours later I thought the opposite. I was really lost.

My new, platonic friend, seem to be the only good thing. We mostly talked about problems, but one day we discovered that both had feelings for each other. It turned out that she had been atracted to me since before we started mailing, she had been folowing my posts in a literature forum. So as my marriage was falling appart, my conversations with her became increasingly unappropriate. This was already cheating. I give here a lot of excuses, but I know it is. I never thought I would do this to my wife.

Once, she came to my city for a weekend, and we wanted to meet. I thought maybe it was all an illusion, so maybe I meet her, and things would get clear in my caotic mind. I told my wife, I told her I had feelings for this woman, and that the only chance I saw to stay, it was to realice this wasn't real. We met, and... .we kissed. We talk and we hold hands, hugged, and it felt like we knew each other from always. I was hard to not go to find a place to have sex, it was crazy. So, no, I ended up more confused. After that we cut the contact, and picked it up again many times. We talked as lovers, then friends, then said we couldn't be friends, that we should change phone numbers and never talk again... .It was a really convoluted time. But then I was oficially a cheater. This went on for months, I thought "I can't leave right around her birthday" , then Christmas, then her father was dying... ."

With my wife we made a pact of no sex. I had all range of emotions, I wanted to die to stop hurting this two women I loved (in different ways).

My friend ended up living in my city with her kids. I left my home and went to live with a sister. Not yet filing for divorce. I tried to stay appart from her, but eventually we met and we had sex.

I felt terribly guilty, so I stopped contact again. I fell sick, and my wife told me she had a right to take care of me while I was sick. I didn't know what to do, that broke my heart. She was fighting for me through the humilliation of being cheated on... .I felt the most despicable guy on Earth. And I felt I didn't have a home. So I came back. I didn't came back as a husband. I was crying all the time and I avoided her. I knew it wouldn't work. If I was to stay, I had to tell my wife I had sex with my friend. But if I was going to leave, I thought it would only cause more pain.  I thought I owed to my wife to tell her face to face I was leaving.  But of course, this broke my friend's heart.

Some weeks later, I left for good. I told my wife, and it was the most terrible moment of my life. I felt I didn't deserve her sadness. I was hoping to find a quiet place to kill myself.

I met with a lot of friends, I went to therapy, and eventually I started talking to my friend again. I figured better than killing myself, all this pain shouldn't be for nothing. I loved this woman, and maybe I could be good for her and her kids. Maybe some good could come out of all that pain. I missed my wife a lot, everything reminded me of her. So my friend didn't trust me. But I knew I didn't want to come back. I tried to be a friend, but it was impossible to keep things in the friend zone when the kids weren't around. This was still hard. Some months later, I had done my grieving, and I was ready to ask her if she wanted to be my girlfriend, I was hopeful again, and open to happyness.

My ex-wife was in a relationship after a month of my leaving. I thought we could both be happier eventually. I still had her in social media, and I tried to cheer her up, to show there were no hate or hard feelings, that there was nothing wrong with her. If she posted a pic, I said "you look good" "I'm glad you're having a good time". All my friends were common friends. I felt guilty and I wanted to minimize the blow to her self esteem. My gf wasn't in social media, but I left everything public, because I didn't want to hide. My gf knew every thought and every tear I sed about my ex, so I though she would interpret things in context when she read it. She hated social media, she is very private, so I didn't posted about her there.

Then my ex decided to block me from her phone and social media, to move on. She was still more affected that I thought, that made me sad, to still cause pain when I tought she had moved on. And my gf took this as a signal that I must have been stalking my ex. Then her sister came phising in my FB, and I had just anounced that I had been blocked, I was sad, and asked our friends to take care of my ex. The sister asked my gf if she was sure I wasn't in love with my ex. My gf went in my FB and read about all my life with my ex, she saw pictures of my past, and those maybe 5-6 coments that were along 5 months, but she read all in the same day, and felt hugely betrayed. She also felt she had broken a nice life.

She has never trusted me since. I had rented a place with a room for her kids, I had introduced them to my family and friends, they came to my parents golden wedding. They were given a place in my family. I had asked her to live with me. But a comment from someone that didn't know me at all, and everything good weighted nothing. I felt betrayed too, I got that she felt betrayed and that she supected. Not one friend thought I had any desire of coming back to my ex wife, but she that knew me better than anyone, was sure I was lying. I thought it was karma for cheating my ex. But I had told my gf every shameful though, every tough truth, I didn't lie to her, ever. I hadn't been honest to my ex, and that almost killed me. I thought being honest was my one good sure thing. And even if it was ugly, I had told my GF everything, and she didn't believe me. When I tried to explain, she got really mad. She couldn't understand why I hadn't deleted all my past's pictures. I thought that was hiding things from her, what was in the past, was in the past.

From then on, she stoped believing most of what I said. We argued a lot about that. I got that she could felt suspicious, but I think I showed her plenty of evidence against her fears. Any time I used my phone, she asumed I was cheating, whether with my ex, or after, some imaginary new friends. Also, that I would talk about her with everyone. Once I learned that she hated that I could talk about her, I stopped sharing information with friends. When she got sick from anorexia, and then BPD I found anonimous support.

Everytime things were good and I thought she was over it, she came back with new suspicion, that sounded ridiculous to me.

3 years later, and one living together (every minute I'm not at work, I'm with them) And she still doesn't trust me.

Now that she knows about her BPD she things she'll never be over her paranoid thinking. So we must break up. When she split on me, she remembers everything wrong that has happened, and it's like it happened yesterday. She brings back that I'm a cheater, and I'm disgusting, so she can stop feeling sorry about being mean to me. Then she wonders if that's all in her head (she doesn't believe me, but she thinks this is not enough to hate me so much), and she feels too "crazy" to stay in a relationship. Either way, she says she can't be with me.

She has no way to go with the kids, no job, house, and no support. But she keeps saying our days are numbered. I don't know what to do to fight for her. I'm trying to think about a life after she leaves. But It kills me that what's keeping us appart is a number of things that none of them are real. She took any new suspicion as a confirmation (a fact, proof) that I can't be trusted. I'm afraid of looking at the phone to check the time, or to read one of HER texts, because if she sees me, she asumes I'm cheating.

After a while, I didn't answer, I didn't JADE. But she takes that as adknowledging she is right. If I tell her that there is no point saying her acusations are false, then she takes it as I'm calling her irrational and crazy. It makes me sad that she doesn't see I live for them. I spend all my salary and some saving every month to support them, I'm all the time with them, I'm always looking for things to do with them, and ways to help them... .

She has other reasons to split, other times. But this trust issue keeps resurfacing again and again.

Is it possible to be trusted again?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JoeBPD81]

I'll appreciate any comment, because I'm feeling really bad about myself... .

My GF recently brought up that I said years ago that I thought I wouldn't tell my wife(then). I said many things in the hardest time in my life. But one of the reasons that convinced me I had to leave, was that if I stayed I couldn't do it without telling it to my wife, I couldn't stay and keep such a big ugly secret. I said one thing to my friend then, thinking out loud, but I was wrong.

Then I suspected my wife could have cheated, she lead a more social life, and went out without me a lot. Even as I suspected, I didn't want to know for sure. So I guess that's why theoreticaly I thought I wouldn't tell. But then I couldn't.

Thing is, my GF know judges me for what I said and not for what I did. She threw it in my face, and it really hurt. She said "sometimes I begin to feel very sorry for you and then I remember you said this, and I see red, and I don't feel sorry anymore". She said this starting very calm and finishing angry, and she said it in front of a kid, although in a language he doesn't speak. But he got we were angry at each other after that.

Today I watched a tv-show where a girl starts dating a married guy, and it made my stomach twist. I saw myself in the married guy and felt disgusted. Although in the show we are supposed to root for this couple. I thought "how can she like him, how can she trust him?" She even had joked before, with a female friend saying married guys never "act married".

My hope is and was that she, my GF, would forgive me, she knew all the circumstances and she was in love at the same time as me. She was also married when she fell in love with me. I feel I can't be with another woman if this relationship fails. I know people cheat right and left, and they live with themselves. But when you care, how do you forgive yourself and move on? My friends don't give it a second thought, they, the ones who know, don't think I'm a worse person for it, it's in the past.

I do know better now. It is not a theory now. And I know what happens. So I'm sure I wouldn't do it again, at any cost. But I understand that thing they say, "if he cheated his wife with you, what do you expect?". Also, she never knew me while I was married and loyal for all my life before I knew her. So she has this image of me from when I was tormented and very unfocused, and yes, desperate for some afection and validation.

Things had gotten better with my GF, a little. But everytime she says "no touching" when I approach, or she looks at me sideways, I'm thinking she's seeing a cheating ass. I'm losing my perspective here.

[jhkbuzz]

But It kills me that what's keeping us apart is a number of things that none of them are real. She took any new suspicion as a confirmation (a fact, proof) that I can't be trusted. I'm afraid of looking at the phone to check the time, or to read one of HER texts, because if she sees me, she assumes I'm cheating.

Is it possible to be trusted again?

I do believe it's possible - but the person who has been betrayed has to be willing, at some point, to lay down their fears and give it a try.

My hope is and was that she, my GF, would forgive me, she knew all the circumstances and she was in love at the same time as me. She was also married when she fell in love with me.

She also felt she had broken a nice life.

So she feels some shame for what she's done as well? It sounds to me like she might be displacing all of her loathing for herself onto you. And that's pretty common for people with BPD.

Now that she knows about her BPD she things she'll never be over her paranoid thinking. So we must break up. When she split on me, she remembers everything wrong that has happened, and it's like it happened yesterday. She brings back that I'm a cheater, and I'm disgusting, so she can stop feeling sorry about being mean to me. Then she wonders if that's all in her head (she doesn't believe me, but she thinks this is not enough to hate me so much), and she feels too "crazy" to stay in a relationship. Either way, she says she can't be with me.

You are trying very, very hard to redeem yourself in her eyes - but she seems unwilling or unable to make the same effort as you.

Do you consider this to be an abusive situation (like your first marriage)?

[onelittleladybug]

Hi Joe

Im so sorry you are having a hard time. Maybe this is an opportunity to reconcile with the past?

But when you care, how do you forgive yourself and move on? My friends don't give it a second thought, they, the ones who know, don't think I'm a worse person for it, it's in the past.

I think the most important thing is for you to forgive yourself. Once you have she will follow. She is finding this weakness in you and its triggering her.

Be your own best friend. See what your friends see. Borrow their perspective if you need to.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks for your answers.

It's not something we talk about a lot, I don't think it will bring any good. My position is that it was wrong, but we didn't look for it, and it made possible that we could end up together. So maybe it was the only way. We broke some eggs to get the omelette done.

It's hard to say "If I went back I wouldn't do it", because I wouldn't have her. I would do it differently, and I wouldn't cheat. But now, what I know is that I don't want to get close to any woman, I wouldn't allow it to happen again. The 3 parties suffered a lot.

I know if I have had kids with my ex, I would have stayed, and never met the second woman. And now I have kids.

It's not that it is in my nature to cheat. I've felt attracted to other women, and I had opportunities of casual sex, and I wasn't interested. I never thought I would, and I never thought I would fall in love again, or that anyone would fall in love with me, it was completely unexpected. And my marriage was declining on its own. It was a combination of circunstances. I didn't have any experience in ending a RS, or in loving two women. Now I have, and I know better.

The problem is, when she tells this, she gets her vision reinforced. Everyone tells her not to trust me. Even her therapist. Every one that doesn't know me. But she can say that my ex trusted me and she was wrong (well, she was right for 16 years). I think about myself more as my ex did. I don't take it lightly. I never felt OK with it.

I felt a lot of urgency, because this woman was suicidal, and she felt ugly and worthy of nothing, but I was completely in love with her and thought she was extraordinary, and I wanted her to know, and to feel she was worth it. She had told me that that summer she would have killed herself if it wasn't for me. But all I showed her was that she was worth to be "the other woman" of a cheater. So I wouldn't do it again.

If I would have been just horny and wanted sex, I could have found something way less complicated. No kids, no history of abuse... .

Also, I'm super shy, I'm very uncomfortable with new people around. I couldn't anticipate I would feel as if I knew her from all my life, as if we had been together before. I'm not a very touching guy, I keep my distance from people, but I felt drawn to her all the time. I figured if we met we would talk and it would be super awkward and that would be it.

I've told her what I can, but she believes half of it and misinterprets the other half. How much we were in love doesn't matter now, because she feels it was very iresponsible towards the kids. So she feels dirty about it. I think it was the only way, then, for us ending up together and me being a father to her kids. It wasn't pretty, but it was the only way.

That is my rational mind, then the topic comes up again, and I still feel very guilty.

Now it seems that we've come back to good terms. She's not thinking about this, but when it comes as intrusive thoughts, and she splits on me.

[onelittleladybug]

Hi Joe

I just wanted to check in on this. How are you feeling? Whats going on?

Im here and listening.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks onelittleladybug,

I'm better. We are having some trying times in the family, and we have put this aside. There is not much signs that we are a couple. Only the excessive familiarity when she tells me I did something she doesn't like. Then, we talk a lot, and it's like two friends. Sometimes our relationship is mentioned and we get sad and uncomfortale.

We try to be focused on the kids, and what they have to live through this summer (spending some time with their father for the 1st time in 4 years). And we, leaving them with a person we don't trust at all.

She told me pretty awful things that I don't know how to take. She says she wants to leave, but she can't, she has no where to go. It was pretty cold, but I could tell she was very distressed.  I don't get much this issue of jealousy, when she seems to have no interest in me as a man.  It doesn't seem to be contradictory for her. I'm sure it will resurface again.

For now, I'm spending my hollydays driving them to see their dad, and staying with her in case something goes wrong. She hates having to go, but we need to be close. But she doesn't seem to appreciate that I'm helping, and that there is nothing good  for me there. I would be happy just resting at home. I need some rest, bad. Let's see.

[Pedro]

Hi JoeBPD81.

Sorry to hear of your circumstances.  I wish you both lots of luck, good communication, the will of God and listening to each other if it can help facilitate a healthy happy & fulfilling reconciliation.

Pedro.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi there,

this has resurfaced again. Not a huge conflict, but a lot of comments. "Your ex this, your ex that... .This makes me think about you and your ex doing whatever together and I want to puke... .Your ex spoiled this song/food/movie for me forever... ." While I don't have a personal relationship with my ex for the last 3 years, she remains the monster in the closet for my GF. For some months, my GF was following my ex on facebook, and she knew way more about her life than me, so she put a lot of images of my ex in her mind.

I don't know how not to feel bad about this. As I feel guilty about leaving and hurting my ex, talking bad about her now on her back, to cheer up my GF, feels ugly to me. And I also know my ex is a much better person than the image my GF has. My way of forgiving myself, and living with the memory of hurting the person I loved, is thinking it was in another life. That life ended, and a new one started.

I can have times when I remember my ex and I feel sad about how things ended. And I feel a lot of rejection towards myself for making her feel unfit, unworthy. The marriage had to end because we were growing unhappy, and we needed different directions to get happier. But I didn't want to hurt her, nor she wanted to hurt me. I don't miss her as a romantic partner at all, and I miss her as a friend and my family only when I remember, and most days is not a thought in my head. I go months without reflecting on this.

But my GF keeps bringing her up. I'm never prepared for that. I wish I could let go of the guilt completely, and this makes it harder.

I don't know exactly how it works. I feel I was the bad guy, because all the bad my ex did to me doesn't matter now, it is forgiven and it has no place. But my ex has an insecurity about me having a relationship with my ex, or coming back, that is not there and it's impossible. And at the same time an image of a really bad person that is also not true. I can't reconcile with the truth among so many things that are not true.

From the break up, it was always more pressing to ease the suspitions of my GF than to process my grief and thoughts. So maybe there are things that haven't healed. I can't talk to anyone about this.

[JoeBPD81]

Can someone help me?

I don't even know with what. I'm hoping miraculously someone makes sense of my chaos.

I just don't have experience. I was with one woman, and I thought it would be for life, and she was my first girlfriend, didn't had any RS before. I never had an ex, or someone being jealous of what I might do. I never had to forget someone or not mention someone. I didn't have anyone in my life that if I felt like talking or writing or meeting this person, it was something bad. I never hurt a person for wanting to be good to another person before. It was completely maddening at first, and now after almost 4 years it is a tiny piece of my puzzle that doesn't fit. Also, I had never been with someone while having years of romantic memories with another.

Then, I couldn't understand how a person could go from sharing everything to being a stranger. It's like "if we never had been a couple, we could have been friends forever?" I get to be friends forever with people that never interested me 1% of what she did, or shared with me 0.1% of life experiences, but she was gonna be less in my life than, say, hated co-workers? It didn't make any sense. I thought I would die of sadness because I'd never finish missing that great part of my life, I'd never stop crying everyday... .But then I felt like a really bad person the moments I felt I really didn't want to see or know a lot about my ex, just wanted to know she was ok. I still feel guilty because life goes on without her friendship and without sharing anything with her. I also know I have blocked a lot of memories to make sense of the change.

I still don't get it. My GF has to keep some contact with her exH because of the kids. Many times she has told me that she cares about him, and doesn't want to hurt him. I get that, and if I get jealous of him, I think it's my problem. After being in love with me she told me she still loved him a lot, but she would never come back. It hurt, but we barely knew each other, and she had been 10 years with him. So I also thought it was normal.
I know she also gets everything I've told her rationally, but she feels differently. Would I even reflect on this things if my exW wasn't such a recurrent topic for my Gf? Will I ever be free of the confusion and guilt? Am I making the right questions?

[Hisaccount]

Sounds like you are on quite the journey and I am sorry to hear how sad it currently is.

From my own experiences I can only share what I went through.
I was always completely up front and Honest with my BPDex. Even when I never did anything wrong she always thought I did. Accused me of it. Believed it with all of her heart.
After 10 years I never got one step closer to being trusted.

She kept telling me things like "you need to fix this" When I didn't know what I was supposed to fix because I didn't do anything wrong.

The guilt you feel is normal for a good person. You care. You love and you have compassion. As far as the thoughts you have in your head, they are yours and nobody else needs to hear them. They cannot be used against you. They are just thoughts.

To me it really sounds like you should seek some counseling. Possibly some antidepressants if you are really feeling that bad off.
That is what I had to do.

But most importantly you need to step back and take a look at you. Where is your confidence and self esteem?  
One of the reasons BPD are attracted to us is because of our confidence. Like we have it all figured out. As things fall apart we tend to stop sticking up for ourselves and become a door mat and that is not attractive to anyone.
As she went through your marriage break up with you, she saw a good person. She saw your struggles, even before that she had her eye on you. She has devised this long before you thought it was even a possibility.
Now she wants you to still be that strong confident leader and it sounds like instead you are pleading for your life basically.

One of the mistakes I made frequently was I would just agree to whatever to get the rage over with. Every one of those things I agreed to, or admitted too, whether I did them or not was held against me forever. So yes she will pull that stuff up as needed. She may say she forgives you, or that the memory will fade with time, but it won't. It will forever be in her bag of tricks.  
In my case it was just venting frustration is what she called it. She doesn't mean or even realize half of what she is saying and she will deny saying it tomorrow.

Just be honest and consistent. Standing up for yourself is attractive. (just don't get mean)

Once you fix you, then go see what is left of the relationship. You will have a new set of eyes and able to see more clearly what is going on and how you are treated. Then you can decide  if she is really worth it.

I could have written a lot, though our stories are different I think our feelings are the same. I never would have said it when it happened, but for me when my ex filed for divorce, it was actually the best day of my life.

As far as dealing with her, well you got her to fall for you once and you are capable of doing it again. But are you still the same person you were?
After my breakup I thought I was broken and I was. But what I lost sight of, I was a good person before her. But instead of being reminded of that I went into therapy thinking something was wrong with me and I needed to change.
That was so not the case.

Do as much reading on this site as you can. Learning how to deal with her.
For me, I had to look at my ex as a retarded child or teenager because they are ill. The pain and suffering, the hate they have for themselves is immense.
Hate the disease and not the person.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot for the reply, Hisaccount.

I went to therapy right after leaving home. The psycologist only told me everything I felt was normal, and agreed about all my thoughts and plans, very validating, but not really useful. It did help to have an outsider's view to my case and to hear things from an impartial point of view.

Only that I understand therapist only know what we say, so if I painted my ex one way, she thought that was how my ex was. I can't blind myself, it's like those people that see the con from a healer, and then the placebo effect doesn't work. I think it helped to a point to reinforce my decision to leave. She repeated to me facts that I told her, and said : "If she did A, she doesn't respect you, if she did B, she doesn't respect you, C... .D... .E... ."She made me cry because it was painful, but also in relieve that it wasn't just in my head. She said "you would be crazy to want to go back". I never wanted to go back, once I searched for my own place. I missed her company terribly, but I knew how sad I was after taking the blindfold from my eyes. And I knew I couldn't put the blindfold again.

By telling it, I'm reliving some pain, but it might also help. Otherwise, it is maybe once a month that I reflect on this, triggered by some memory, or by my GF bringing it up. So this is not a big deal, compared with the daily struggles of BPD and two (defiant) kids. I reflect because my old troubles seem strawberry ice cream compared with living with 3 people that love you one minute and hate you the next.

I think too much, and I lose track of myself, or who I am. I very much wanted to keep a friendship with my ex at the beginning, anything else felt unbearable. But maybe I thought that because it was what I thought a good person would feel,or did I really feel it? I cried a lot then. But actually the thought of calling her or meeting her wasn't appealing, I thought it would hurt to see each other. And being very cold, I wasn't sure what a friendship would provide for any of us. I was sure it was trouble for our current relationships, that was the only sure thing. So if she texted me or something, I hated it because it would bring so much trouble, and I wished she hadn't texted at all. Then I feel like a bad person, because she doesn't deserve to be hated, or blocked,or ignored. Pretty soon it was clear that any friendship was impossible, humans simply don't work like that.

Many thoughts came trying to JADE with my GF about her accusations of talking everyday to my ex,having a secret relationship,or keeping the door open. We didn't know anything about BPD then.

I have to tell you that things have got better with time. Some comments might hurt and bring back the whole issue. But it is not a constant distrust as it was. I know better than to try and talk it with her again,so I try to get my head straight here.

Thanks a lot. 

[pearlsw]

Can someone help me?

I don't even know with what. I'm hoping miraculously someone makes sense of my chaos.

I just don't have experience. I was with one woman, and I thought it would be for life, and she was my first girlfriend, didn't had any RS before. I never had an ex, or someone being jealous of what I might do. I never had to forget someone or not mention someone. I didn't have anyone in my life that if I felt like talking or writing or meeting this person, it was something bad. I never hurt a person for wanting to be good to another person before. It was completely maddening at first, and now after almost 4 years it is a tiny piece of my puzzle that doesn't fit. Also, I had never been with someone while having years of romantic memories with another.

Then, I couldn't understand how a person could go from sharing everything to being a stranger. It's like "if we never had been a couple, we could have been friends forever?" I get to be friends forever with people that never interested me 1% of what she did, or shared with me 0.1% of life experiences, but she was gonna be less in my life than, say, hated co-workers? It didn't make any sense. I thought I would die of sadness because I'd never finish missing that great part of my life, I'd never stop crying everyday... .But then I felt like a really bad person the moments I felt I really didn't want to see or know a lot about my ex, just wanted to know she was ok. I still feel guilty because life goes on without her friendship and without sharing anything with her. I also know I have blocked a lot of memories to make sense of the change.

I still don't get it. My GF has to keep some contact with her exH because of the kids. Many times she has told me that she cares about him, and doesn't want to hurt him. I get that, and if I get jealous of him, I think it's my problem. After being in love with me she told me she still loved him a lot, but she would never come back. It hurt, but we barely knew each other, and she had been 10 years with him. So I also thought it was normal.
I know she also gets everything I've told her rationally, but she feels differently. Would I even reflect on this things if my exW wasn't such a recurrent topic for my Gf? Will I ever be free of the confusion and guilt? Am I making the right questions?

Hi Joe, I'm here and I'm listening too. I wish I could help in some way! You seem to be suffering a lot. I notice from the icon that you selected that you may have some affinity for buddhism. Is that correct? If so, perhaps that is a point of entry for a conversation about healing?

There are a lot of details here. I am not sure I have absorbed them all. If I had to put it into fewer words I would say that you seem to be suffering from feelings of guilt and confusion about things in your life related to your past major relationship. I can't speak to all of them in one post, but if you like we can start with a few and see how it goes.

I think we can go back to the point that you had very little experience with relationships and with breaking up. Is that correct? That is very understandable and relatable. When I take a step back and take a big picture view of the world I think this is why a lot of "cheating" takes place. People simply don't know how to get out of relationships. And relationships are not necessarily easy to get out of. I know it seems like everyone should know how to do it, but the fact of the matter is people don't, or are overwhelmed, or confused. People sometimes want two things at once. To be with someone, to hold onto something, but they are pulled in a new direction. There ends up being overlap instead of hard breaks until... .there finally is one. Sometimes it is the entrance of another person into a situation that becomes a spark to pull a person out of a relationship. It happens literally everyday.

Also, I think you never expected your relationship to end in this way. You had every intention of being with this person for life, or so it seems, but things changed. This gave you a new situation to deal with - preparing to live a life you neither wanted or expected. Is that correct?

The other issue you are dealing with now is jealousy, jealousy from your new partner. That is a tough issue too, especially because again, you had no previous experience with this either and you may not relate to the feeling. It takes up a lot of your life and seems to be wrecking things. Is that correct? It is part of your new partner's BPD issues? Is that correct?  

You are also coming to terms with having hurt someone. Is that correct?

I am just trying to get a handle on your issues. Perhaps listing them would help bring some order to the chaos you are feeling?

For example:
1) I feel guilt for how I left my past relationship.
2) My partner has contact with an ex husband (because of kids), but I am not "allowed" to have contact with my ex. This feels unfair. (?)
3) I am not trusted because of how my past relationship ended.

What is the list of issues going on here so we can take a look at each one?

I don't want to push you if you are not in a place to sort this all out, if it is overwhelming for you, but if you feel like looking this over a bit together I am happy to try my best to help you sort out your thinking if I can. Once we can see the thoughts that are coming to you perhaps then we can use some other tools to help you release some of the pain you are feeling? Or come up with tools for how you can respond to your current partner?

[Hisaccount]

I think too much, and I lose track of myself, or who I am. I very much wanted to keep a friendship with my ex at the beginning, anything else felt unbearable. But maybe I thought that because it was what I thought a good person would feel,or did I really feel it? I cried a lot then.

I think you are just like me.

Like you, my ex told me she had a crush on me while I was still married and trying to save my previous relationship.

Did you find yourself basically defending her to the therapist?

I gave everything to the relationship. All of me. I lost who I was.
We want to be better people and improve ourselves. We thought we were with someone that felt the same way about things. Even acted the same way. That they wanted to be a good person as well.
Sad part is, maybe they wanted that, but they were just not capable of holding up their end of the deal.

We were naive, but we were also seduced.

My ex wanted to be friends and so did I. As I had often said I looked at her as a retarded child. What kind of person would just walk away from a retarded child, especially one they made a promise to take care of?
I believed a good person would not walk away.
When my ex lawyerd up and went no contact it was the best thing ever for me.

I had made a promise to God to take care of her forever. I prayed every night for God to change her or change me. Her running off and filing for divorce was God's answer. Not one I would have expected or asked for, but it is perfect. Just like her demanding no contact through her lawyer. It left me with no guilt at all over anything that happened.
I did my part. I was a good person. She chose to ran off. She chose to break contact.
Granted I chose to maintain no contact. But still. I believe it is God's answer and it is perfect.

You have posted this on the saving board, are you still wanting this relationship?

[JoeBPD81]

You have posted this on the saving board, are you still wanting this relationship?

I want to save my current relationship. Trust (myself) that I am a good person again, so I can expect that she believes I am one.

[JoeBPD81]

To answer some things:

pearlsw


I didn't have little experience, I had zero with break ups (not even a highschool sweetheart or something), and just one experience with relationship, I married my first Gf (not right away, it took us 5 years). She had had several relationships before, but under 2 years the longest.


I wasn't looking for a way out. I thouhgt having a great friendship, and some atraccion, and a lot of patience made our relationship perfect, as it was in the eyes of the people around us. Periodically, she would ask for more romanticism or passion, and I would felt I had been lazy and went the extra mile. The last time I thought "wait a moment, all the romanticism and ideas always come from me, why doesn't she make an effort?" Everytime she complained, the relationship inclined more to her favor. But I thought I would be with her forever. Until that moment.


I wish I had sorted it out before meeting my current GF. But I'll never know if without that urgency
I would have made any change. It was unexpected and scary, it turned out OK economicaly, but I was scared I couldn't make it alone.


The jealousy of my GF, it's part her BPD, but we have a past when she knew me, and I was cheating, even when she was with me the whole time and understood my position. Even as I had told my wife I was meeting this other woman. Enjoying other female attention was something new and not searched for, by me, but that's how she met me, and she believes I was always like that. I can't say to her "I would never do that, I'm not that person" Because she knows I did once, even if was so unlikely.


The worst part is that of coming to terms with having hurt someone. Someone I loved, and someone that didn't deserve it (no matter how she had hurt me before), someone that did things for me, and was by my side half my life. I hate that I hurt my GF too, but I hope to have all my life to compensate her. I can't compensate someone that it's outside my life.


I don't think in terms of "this is unfair" because she can do things that I'm not allowed. That only leads to frustration. If I thought it was correct to meet or talk to my ex, I would. And then face the consecuences.


The comparison is that it doesn't bother me her talking to her ex, while I know she loves me. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't like him that much now. And it is torture for her just to dream about my ex, which she does often. Is that because BPD? How can she know she is the only woman in my life?


Even if it was OK to have a relationship with my ex, I don't think I could, my life is too busy with her and the kids. I'm always thinking about them, and day to day it is hard to do anything else.


---- Hisaccount


I defended both to the therapist. I guess not so much as the word co-dependent didn't appear.


I thought I have given up most of myself in my marriage. In time I remember things that she picked from me too, and that makes me sad. Not having been grateful to her because she did things I loved.


I almost wanted for her to have another man and for her to leave me. Then it wouldn't be my fault. Then the break up would have been easier.  But all the steps she took, like blocking me on social media, are the ones that my gf resent the most. So it is a good thing that I was the one who broke the marriage.


I also felt like I was taking care of her. She is independet, but very naive at some things, and some practical things, she was helpless. And I was useful for that. I didn't know how she would manage without me, and that gave me a lot of anxiety. I made that promise to God too. But at some point, I knew the best thing I could do for her was to set her free. I knew I wasn't the kind of partner she wanted, and I couldn't be myself anymore.


But doing that, she felt like she wasn't good enough, like she didn't know how to love someone, like she was too selfish to love, or too entitled... .And I didn't want that at all.

[Hisaccount]

I defended both to the therapist. I guess not so much as the word co-dependent didn't appear.

I almost wanted for her to have another man and for her to leave me. Then it wouldn't be my fault.


I also felt like I was taking care of her. She is independet,


But doing that, she felt like she wasn't good enough,

Originally my therapist labeled me co-dependant but later rethought that as I shifted to working on me and being honest about how I was being treated instead of defending her or making excuses for the way she acted and treated me.

I think it is normal for most of us to dream at some point about our partner running off or being in a car crash

I was definitely taking care of her. Even when she didn't think she needed it because I knew she did. It was constant damage control.
That is one place where I did not do so well. I wanted everything to run as smoothly as possible for my own sanity.

It would be better to let them fail from time to time. Then she would keep running to you for help. Then she will be reminded that maybe she needs you, that you are a good person. That you are always there for her.
Without walking away, or if you are always protecting her, then how will she ever know she needs you?

I did all those things for her and when I would point them out she wouldn't believe me that I did them, or that it was necessary. One example was doing the dishes. She would always say I did them last time. Then I would just do them to keep the peace. I finally stood my ground on it one day and we got a calendar out. It had been 3 months since she last did dishes, but in her mind she did them 3 times just this week.
So I promise, protecting them doesn't work.