Mother with NPD/histrionic personality disorder

[Junebugg]

Hello!

I'm a daughter of a mother with diagnosed narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders. Very quick background information: My parents divorced when I was six years old, and my mother was required to be psychologically evaluated during the divorce proceedings (not sure why, although I can only guess). She was diagnosed with NPD/HPD (Narcissistic personality disorder/Histrionic personality disorder).  Over twenty years later, I am now a practicing physician. I politely, yet strongly, disagree with that health professional's evaluation. I believe she has Borderline. There is substantial overlap in all three of those personality disorders, and borderline wasn't as understood back then as it is today. So I can easily see why they would have diagnosed her with those disorders at that time in history.  

She is prone to severe outbursts of rage that are the result of seemingly innocuous events. Three in particular in the past few months have led me to reach out and seek help. In addition to purchasing 'Surviving a Borderline Parent' and 'Understanding the Borderline Mother' off Amazon, I am mostly here to get support.  I often feel as though I have no one to talk to, as one of my siblings has developed similar personality traits as my mother, and the other sibling, albeit supportive and understanding, has her own family now and has limited time to talk about these things. I don't burden my dad with these issues because 1)it's not fair to bad mouth one parent to the other parent, and 2)he obviously divorced her to get away from her.

Let me tell you about the three most recent incidents.  Please be aware that I, as a medical professional, am not OFFICIALLY diagnosing my mother with BPD, these are just my strong opinions as her daughter and I have the fortune of studying these diseases extensively.

1. In February of this year we had a traumatic family event occur. Understandably so, everyone was mourning and the whole family came together for a funeral, including distant relatives.  I was able to witness each individual in their stages of grief and immediately recognized that my mother was exhibiting unhealthy signs of grief. She was repeatedly saying how she 'wanted to kill herself and there was no use living any more, she had absolutely no reason to live'.  She said these phrases loudly, in front of our whole family, including myself.  She then proceeded to come and give me a hug and said, "I have zero reasons to live."  Thanks, mom. As a medical professional, I recognize that suicidal thoughts are NOT a healthy stage of grieving, and a few weeks after the family gathering I very gently recommended to my mom when we were in a private setting that I thought counseling could benefit her because I was concerned for her well-being.  She immediately proceeded to tell me to "go eff yourself" and that I was "an insensitive ___" and that she never loved me and never will love me. I simply responded by saying I was sorry she felt that way and that I loved her.  She said, "I don't give a eff I don't love you."  That was the end of that conversation, because I simply walked away after saying one more time, "I'm sorry you feel that way".  Less than 24 hours later she apologized profusely and said she didn't mean anything she said.

2. Another, more happy family event occurred in the end of May, and the family gathered again, this time in celebration. The details are too specific to go into here without giving away my identity, but the celebration was for an accomplishment I had worked hard for through the past 8 years or so. There was a brunch on Sunday in a nice hotel buffet to close up the weekend celebrations, and my mom got separated from the caravan of our family's cars on the way to the brunch place.  She called me absolutely irate, saying that I was a "___" and that "how dare you plan this effing brunch at a goddamn place that no one can effing find. I'm driving the eff home right now" (her home was 17 hours away at this point). Then when she arrived by GPS at the address that I had given everyone, she was somehow on the SIDE of the correct building, not the front, and didn't see the main entrance around the corner.  She called me and berated me for giving her a false address and "what is this goddamn industrial park you sent me to, you b**ch." She hung up on me before I could even respond to guide her to the correct side of the building.  Then she turned off her phone. About fifteen minutes later I was walking to the front of the building to check-in and see if security had maybe found her and was able to help.  She comes around the corner of a hallway (I hear her yelling at someone before I see her coming) with a hotel security guard in tow. She is yelling at him that his hotel is too effing big and confusing.  Anyway, I see her and I say "glad you found the place!" and reach out to give her a hug.  She slaps my hand down and screams, in front of about 100 people in this massive hotel lobby, ":)ON'T YOU EFFING TOUCH ME!" Then she proceeds to verbally abuse me, LOUDLY, in front of everyone in the lobby. Calling me a "rich b**ch" over and over again, and blaming everything in my life on her not getting to the brunch on time.  Including my in-laws, somehow. I can see people are awkwardly looking away.  Of course I don't yell back, I simply keep repeating, "I'm sorry you feel that way", and "I understand you're upset right now". I tell her that the brunch is down a hallway and we start heading that way.  This is actually taking us further from the brunch, and I am doing this on purpose because I know she just needs time to calm down.  She eventually decides she just won't talk to anyone at the brunch, to show how angry she is, and I decide to take her back to the brunch room. At this point I have missed over half of the brunch that was planned to celebrate my accomplishments.  

This is not even close to the first time something like this has happened.  It appears that when she's not the center of attention, she makes sure she becomes the center.

The third incident happened yesterday:

3. My mom called me (and apparently my older sister) at exactly 1:55pm and 1:56pm, respectively. I was at a music festival and did not hear my phone ring. At 3:00pm she texts my older sister and me in a group text and said, "there is no need to call me back. You both missed my call, and I already found out the answer to my question." I saw both the text and the missed call at exactly 3:06pm (one hour and 11 minutes after the call, and SIX minutes after the text) and was just leaving the music festival so I texted the group message back (due to the loud noise I didn't feel calling back at the moment was a good idea) and said, "Ok. At a festival." She said, "Nbd. Idc". (No Big Deal. I Don't Care).  My sister texted me in a private conversation and said, "mom's mad at us." and I said, "I can tell."  When she gets mad she uses text abbreviations.  Later that evening I text my mom and say, "love you sleep well". She responds this morning with, "TY" (Thank You) and hasn't said anything since.

I just don't know what to do anymore. It seems that her outbursts have been increasing in frequency lately and I never know how to handle them. I never argue back because I haven't found benefit from that in the past, I always simply appease her by saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I understand you're upset right now".  That doesn't seem appropriate either though.

Have people on this forum cut ties with parents that suffer from BPD? I'm an adult now and while I love my mom very much and will always be grateful for her for giving me life, I just can't deal with this type of instability in my life anymore. I work 80+ hours a week and the little free time I have can't be spent staring at my phone to ensure that I don't miss her phone call. I also can't spend my entire life getting verbally abused by her in front of hundreds of strangers.  I just can't do it.  But she's my mom and I feel cutting ties with her is not a solution. I don't know. I need help. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thank you for taking your time to read this.

[Peacefromwithin]

Hi Junebug,

Welcome!   I am sorry for what you're going through. I am a newbie by myself, but hopefully I can be of some help.

Here are my thoughts and opinions, for what they're worth, after reading your message.

(1) It does sound like BPD with NPD to me. I sometimes wonder, too, of BPD was not diagnosed enough years ago. One time, I drove three hours in traffic to visit with a friend I hadn't seen in about a year. As soon as I rang the doorbell, she answers it saying, "My mom is just taking a nap in here so she'll be with us." I spent the next hour in the living room with my friend and mother, listening to the mother complain about her medical problems. Then out of nowhere, my friend and mother went upstairs so she could help her mother with the computer. It was bizarre. I was told her mother had "bi-polar" but I swear it felt very BPD/NPD to me. I wonder if doctors are afraid to diagnose someone with BPD for fear of being sued. I could completely seeing my parents do that.

(2) Congratulations on all your hard work and dedication to become a doctor! I wish you all the best in your career. I am sorry that your mother made your brunch celebration for your accomplishments about her. I am sorry she hit you and humiliated you in public. To me that's grounds for going No Contact, but the decision of course is yours. However I think we children of BPD put up with a lot more than normal children do.

(3) Your mother sounds like she is completely full of self-hate but instead of facing it and the root cause of it, she projects it onto you. Getting angry at you because she got lost, for example. She was embarrassed and the fear of being embarrassed made her take it out on you. That is so unfair to you.

(4) Understanding the Borderline Mother and Surviving the Borderline Parent (if I have those titles right) were two books I found to be the most helpful.

(5) From what I know, it seems for those who stay in contact with their BPD/NPD parent, the key is setting boundaries. There are different levels of contact.

(6) My concern for you right now is that the parent with NPD/BPD will suck the life energy out of the child if allowed. I hope you will read through the Lessons and Survivors Guide here ----> for help to avoid that. I do not want her illness to ruin your career that you worked so hard for.

(7) Another thing that struck me, was how you would say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and she would call you a cold-hearted ___. (Grounds for going NC in my opinion!) Again this is purely my opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt. I know Al-anon teaches people to use that statement (Al-anon isn't just for children with alcoholic parents, but for children with dysfunctional families, etc). I once used that expression with my uBPD/NPD mother and she hit the roof! She raged and called me a ___ about 10 times a row. She looked like she wanted to kill me. She probably would have if she could have gotten away with it. It is a very detached answer, and I know that sort of statement is the "detach with love" thing to say, but maybe something else might work instead? But then you'd have to be careful not to use something too nice, because then she'd think she got you hooked. People with BPD/NPD are extremely manipulative. They WANT us to cater to their every little need and every little feeling and will ruin our lives, our careers, our families, and our sanity if we let them. But if you choose to stay in contact with her, see what other statements people use. It's been a long time since I read those two books, so if that's what they say to say, then continue to do so and just know that she's going to react like an angry pouty little 2 year old.

(8) Please do not let her push your buttons. Make a life for yourself. Be happy. Do not feel guilty. Do not let her take you down with her.

(9) No child ever deserves to be called a ___. EVER. She's probably projecting but there's NO EXCUSE for verbal abuse like that. Again I'd say that's clear grounds for going NC. If you do that, be ready for the smear campaign. Stay strong.

(10) I'd also suggest you not people please her or try to help her feel better or do what she wants. You will never win and you will die trying. I'm not sure how to do this without her noticing and getting her more enraged but I'm sure the links to the right have info on how to do so. (That being said, we also have to learn to let go of the BPD/NPD's reactions but that takes practice.)

I hope that helps a little bit, from one newbie to another.  

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Junebugg:    
I'd like to join Peacefromwithin in welcoming you to the Community!  She gave you some great advice and hopefully I and add to that.

I'm so sorry about your mom's disturbing behavior.  That's a lot to deal with.  I commend you for not putting your father in the middle of a drama triangle.  You are likely right in thinking your mom has BPD, versus her earlier diagnosis.  I've read many post, where members indicate the person with BPD in their life has had multiple diagnoses.  I think what matters most, is to learn strategies to deal with the specific behaviors.

I never argue back because I haven't found benefit from that in the past, I always simply appease her by saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I understand you're upset right now".  That doesn't seem appropriate either though.

Actually, you are using two good strategies.  One advised communication tactic is to NOT JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain), so you are using that tactic by not arguing.  Your two example statements are using a 2nd strategy of "validation".  

One way to look at things is that if you invalidated (as opposed to validating or just NOT invalidating) or argued, you have the chance of making things worse (either for your mom, you or both of you).  Strategies don't always work, or work the same for everyone.  Sometimes the do, sometimes they don't and sometimes behavior may get worse before it gets better (i.e. extinction bursts can appear, before reeping benefits from consistently using some boundaries and skills)

The information at the links below about boundaries might be helpful.

BOUNDARIES:
Boundaries are for your benefit, and it is up to you to enforce them. Whether you need to set a boundary now or later, best to be prepared:  

BOUNDARIES WORKSHOP

BOUNDARIES ARTICLE

EXAMPLES

FIVE SIGNS OF UNHEALTHY BOUNDARIES

"I" Statement can be another tool to use.  The 19-minute video at the link below, is a helpful tutorial for using "I" Statements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDExNRJCUp0

The template and sample below could be helpful as well.

How To Use I-Statements:

Start by identifying how you feel: mad, sad, frustrated, etc.
I feel __________

State the reason you feel this way or what happened that led you to those feelings.
when __________

Try to identify the reason the person’s actions led to those feelings for you.
because __________

Let the person know what you want instead.
I would like __________ .

Example:
Your spouse snaps at you during dinner and it really hurt your feelings. Here’s an I-statement to use with this scenario:

I feel hurt when you snap at me like that because I worked hard to cook this nice dinner for us. I would like you to use nicer words and tone with me, and to know if something happened today that has led you to be in a bad mood.

Check out the video and the template above. Additionally, a couple of samples appear below.  They might give you an idea about a type of statement that might apply to a future situation.

Sample 1
I love you and I want our conversations to be respectful and supportive.  I can see that you are having a bad day.  Therefore, I'm going to end this conversation.  I look forward to speaking to you when we can both enjoy a respectful conversation.

Sample 2
I want to have a mutually respectful conversation with you, but that isn't possible right now.  I'm going to end this conversation.  I look forward to (talking, texting, exchanging emails), with you when you are having a better day.

As you begin to set boundaries to protect yourself from various behaviors, it is common to experience EXTINCTION BURSTS.  Click on the green link to read some information about it.  Sometimes, when you seem to be following all the suggested logic and communication skills, things can get worse for a period of time, before it gets better.  If you stick with boundaries and various communication skills, it will usually get better for you and your sanity.

[Junebugg]

RE: Peacefromwithin

Thank you for your kind reply, and for congratulating me on becoming a doctor! It's an exciting but busy time.

I agree with you that my mother is full of self-hate, and No Contact is incredibly tempting, however she goes No Contact with me or my sisters regularly (over small incidences) and it just doesn't feel right to me to do the same for her.  In other words, her No Contacts generally only last a day or two, even though she says shes not going to contact us "ever again". So I just don't want her to have it in her mind that my No Contact is also only going to last a day.  I would love for it to last about 100,000 times longer than a day (a girl can dream).


I am interested in learning more about the Boundaries.  :)o you happen to have a good link with how to set up boundaries and the levels of boundaries?

"(6) My concern for you right now is that the parent with NPD/BPD will suck the life energy out of the child if allowed. I hope you will read through the Lessons and Survivors Guide here ----> for help to avoid that. I do not want her illness to ruin your career that you worked so hard for."

^^ can you link the Survivors Guide again, it didn't seem to go through. Thank you!

I am so sorry to hear that you used the phrase "I'm sorry you feel that way" with your mom, and she called you a ___.  In your own words, no child EVER deserves to be called that by their parents, and I can truly say that I know exactly how you feel and I wouldn't wish that feeling upon anyone.  My heart breaks for you. The experiences I've had should not have to happen to anyone and it's equally comforting and disheartening to know I'm not the only victim of a BPD/NPD mother.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and I appreciate your helpful and detailed response! I am going to continue to work on setting boundaries with her and also continue to live my own life.  I moved far far away from home (on purpose) for medical school and now am equally as far away, but in the opposite direction, for residency. The distance really helps, too bad I like the rest of my family and they all stuck around my mom!

Best and hugs back,
Junebugg

[Junebugg]

RE: Naughty Nibbler

Thank you for all the information on Boundaries! I am going to read them this morning and attempt to integrate them into our relationship, carefully and tacfully. I also appreciate you for teaching me the JADE acronym, and that I am correct in NOT doing JADE... .I have been employing that method for a while and it's comforting to know that I was handling it appropriately. I'll also look at the I statement video when I get a chance. The I statement samples are incredibly beneficial as well.

I also learned about extinction bursts from you, and yes my mom has done some of those things in the past when I have attempted to set boundaries.  Amazing!

Your advice and the fact that you took the time to respond in the first place is greatly appreciated.  This forum seems as though it will benefit me greatly and I look forward to reading other peoples' experiences and learning coping strategies from them/hopefully helping other people when I have more experience dealing with my mom!

[Peacefromwithin]

Hi JB,

My apologies I missed the updates to your post. I should've written more clearly. It wasn't a link I provided, I was trying to type an arrow to point to the right side of the screen where the lessons and survival guide are. I think NN provided better links. Sorry I'm not very technical. :-)

I'm just getting to sleep so I'll have to reply more tomorrow.  

PFW

[Peacefromwithin]

I agree with you that my mother is full of self-hate, and No Contact is incredibly tempting, however she goes No Contact with me or my sisters regularly (over small incidences) and it just doesn't feel right to me to do the same for her.  In other words, her No Contacts generally only last a day or two, even though she says shes not going to contact us "ever again". So I just don't want her to have it in her mind that my No Contact is also only going to last a day.  I would love for it to last about 100,000 times longer than a day (a girl can dream).

I think many pwBPD are full of self-hate and that is why they hate on the scapegoated child. That is very childish of your mother to go "no contact" with you or your sisters over little things but then talk to you again after a day or so. There are people on the board who have decided to go "no contact", "very low contact" or "low contact". If you do stay in contact, using the Boundaries tool can be helpful. Nibbler posted very helpful links for that. Also I'm told there is a book called "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud that is very helpful. I haven't read it, though.

^^ can you link the Survivors Guide again, it didn't seem to go through. Thank you!

Sorry about that. It wasn't a link, I was trying to make an arrow. To the right of the screen you're on should be a column-type of menu listing "Healing when a Family Member Has BPD" including the subgroup "Lessons" and "Survivors Guide".

I am so sorry to hear that you used the phrase "I'm sorry you feel that way" with your mom, and she called you a ___.  In your own words, no child EVER deserves to be called that by their parents, and I can truly say that I know exactly how you feel and I wouldn't wish that feeling upon anyone.  My heart breaks for you. The experiences I've had should not have to happen to anyone and it's equally comforting and disheartening to know I'm not the only victim of a BPD/NPD mother.

Yeah, that day was horrible. It seemed the more mature I got, the worse her rage. That happened when I was in college. I was working 9-5 and taking summer school at night and living at home. My mother could not deal with me growing up because (1)She needed me to be dependent on her always, even though she would make fun of me that I'd probably need to be dependent on her and (2)Her rages seemed to get worse the more I tried to grow up. I think she needed me to be around to be her punching bag, and although she hated me and couldn't wait till I left the house, at the same time she needed me to be a source of her rages. I have a feeling my dad or people in public got the backlash of her rages once I was out of the house but I don't know. She also has grandchildren so maybe they did.  

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and I appreciate your helpful and detailed response! I am going to continue to work on setting boundaries with her and also continue to live my own life.  I moved far far away from home (on purpose) for medical school and now am equally as far away, but in the opposite direction, for residency. The distance really helps, too bad I like the rest of my family and they all stuck around my mom!

I'm glad I could help! I do agree that the geographical distance does help. That was my first step years ago.

Take good care and let us know if the tools on the board help you.