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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: BPD ex-wife. Concerns with child's safety  (Read 765 times)
burntout

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« on: June 27, 2017, 01:38:57 PM »

My ex-wife was diagnosed with BPD in 2011, shortly after our divorce.
She initially embraced the diagnosis, but in the years since has disowned it, downright denying it was correct, even though she fits the full spectrum of symptoms.

She ruined 2 marriages by the time she was 35 and lost residential custody of 2 of her 3 children. My daughter remains with her most of the time, which leads me to my question.

I am up nights worrying about the physical well-being of our daughter, who she denies me contact with for all but 2 days a week. Being that ultimate control is her main concern, what is the likelihood that she will harm our daughter, either in a violent outburst, or in an effort to hurt me, as she knows it would?
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 07:39:52 AM »

Really? Nobody?
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 10:13:55 AM »

How old is your daughter ?
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 10:37:10 AM »

She's ten.
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Panda39
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 11:24:35 AM »

Hi burntout,

Is your daughter telling you anything about her time with her mom?  Is she doing well in school?  What are you seeing that is concerning?  Was your ex physically violent with her other kids, or while you were married? 

In terms of the time you see your daughter what does your current custody agreement look like? 

Panda39
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 11:37:07 AM »

Hi Panda39,

My daughter downplays any negativity in regards to time with her mother, either to normalize it for herself or simply because she's just used to it. I'd say maybe she is just protecting her mom, but when she is with me she just says she wants to stay with me and not go back to her mother's house. For instance, she told me her mom was getting her to school on time, and then the school called me later that week to say she'd been late all but one day of the week. Aside from over 50 tardies this school year (thanks to mom), her grades are very good.

Our son's school filed a report with DCF last year, and as a result, he now resides with me.
The report was based in physical abuse. She also lost residential custody of her son from her 2nd failed marriage, because she ran off with all 3 kids to a "safe house", claiming abuse from her then husband, which was unsubstantiated, hence the removal of her other son, age 4.

Our daughter is her last piece of perceived "power", over me. She's even said as much.
This makes me worry that if she feels pushed against a wall, she will harm our daughter if only because she knows it's the only way to hurt me, which has been her ultimate MO for more years than I care to count.
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 11:42:33 AM »

Sorry, forgot to touch on custody.

She currently has legal residential custody of our daughter. She is with me on weekends, but does her best to truncate that at every turn.

Thanks for your reply.
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david
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 12:29:02 PM »

My ex ran away in 2007. To keep this part short I became an EOW dad and one dinner night a week. I filed for a change of circumstances in late 2008. My main concern was school. Our boys did over 95 % of all their homework when with me. I copied every hw. Ex dragged the legal proceedings out until late 2010. The evidence, homework, I had was overwhelming and I got 50/50. Our oldest, 18, just moved in with me.
I used to have a lot of concerns for their safety and well being in the beginning. Eventually they got older and my concerns lessened. It wasn't easy. One thing I did was to teach them how to take care of themselves in non ideal situations. I used whatever was in front of me. If we were out somewhere and something, we saw something on the news or TV in general, topics that came up in conversation, etc. I basically told them to remove themselves from a dangerous situation and call for help. I made them memorize my cell number. I talked to them about 911. I did the things a normal parent would do anyway. I was just more conscious of it. I was careful not to overdo it. Our boys were 4 and 8 back then. I remember not being able to sleep because of concerns.
I learned several things.
In order to "win" in court you need to know the rules of the game in your county. You then need to give your attorney the things he needs to win by those rules.
The less I engaged with my ex the better things got for our boys. Without my reaction ex was not getting what she wanted from me. Sadly, our boys were of no interest to her most of the time and that was the good thing. Ex wanted me to react when she did something she knew would get to me. That was her purpose. Without that purpose she no longer did a lot of the things that upset me. That takes a certain amount of faith to stick to.
Perseverance paid off for me in court. I was selective on why I would go to court and I made sure I had what my attorney needed to accomplish what I was seeking. That takes time.
On the plus side, I learned to listen and validate for our boys better than before. In a way, I credit my ex for that because she forced me to figure that out better than before. My relationship with our boys is stronger because of all that happened. I never put ex down in front of them and I am certain she did the opposite. Eventually it backfired on her.
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2017, 01:06:50 PM »

David, thanks for your input. It's very helpful.

There are a lot of similarities in my case. By all appearances, my ex's interest in our kids is only as tools to hurt me or others in her family, or to receive money from me. It has been explained to me by an attorney that because our son lives with me, I have just as much a right to be asking her for child support, which I will/do not. Pretty sure she knows that, which is why she doesn't pursue it much these days. Though you never know with her. I initially stopped paying when she went off to her last psyche ward stay of 6 weeks. The last of about 6 stays in as many years.

My kids' school records, a flurry of DCF reports against her, and her many hospitalizations for suicide threats, emotional instability and opiate addiction is probably all a halfway decent lawyer would need to make a solid case, so I believe that is my next course of action.

My son is almost 15. He "gets it", and knows it's up to him where he goes. In a few years my daughter will be able to do the same, but I hate the thought of letting it go that long or waiting for mom to spiral to the point where our little girl is in danger.

Thanks again for your story and cheers for persevering for your kids.
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2017, 01:36:07 PM »

Hello burntout.

Can you please tell us a bit more? What happened to your daughter during xw's 6 week stay in psych ward? Do you have documentation of the other stays? Do you have a parent plan in place?

Most parent plans include language about parental restrictions when one parent may have limitations in providing care. Do you have a lawyer, and have you already explored asserting that your xw falls into the category for parental limitations? WA state parent plan contains the following:

b. Other problems that may harm the children’s best interests.  (If a parent has any of these problems, the court may  limit that parent’s contact
    with the children and right to make decisions for the children.)  
   Neither parent has any of these problems.  (Skip to 4.)
   A parent has one or more of these problems as follows (check all that apply):
       Neglect – (Parent’s name):  neglected his/her parental duties towards a child listed in 2.
       Emotional or physical problem – (Parent’s name):  has a long-term emotional or physical problem that gets in the way of his/her ability to
       parent.
       Substance Abuse – (Parent’s name): has a long-term problem with drugs, alcohol, or other substances that gets in the way of his/her
       ability to parent.

If you have records of addiction, hospitalization, etc., have these been presented in court? I am very sorry to hear what you are going through. I am worried about the welfare of my sons with uBPDxw as well, but the behaviors your xw displays are definitely alarming. Do you think you could talk to your D10 about a safety plan?

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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 01:53:45 PM »

Hi Takingandsending, thanks for your reply.

Any time my exw has been hospitalized, I have taken care of both our kids. I was always happy to and felt genuine compassion for her mental state. When she ran off with the kids to the safe house without telling me, it was the beginning of the end of my empathy. It had turned ugly as ever, and turned my way. Even when we were divorced and she was remarried, we had a decent relationship, and my spending time with the kids was rarely an issue. Even more time than our legal agreement stated. It was only when she felt she needed to defend herself against persecution of being a "bad parent" or somehow labeled, that she would deny me access, and to a greater extent, deny her BPD diagnosis.

She matches all the legal criteria you've listed. I do not have the records on hand, but am told that an attorney could subpoena most any record needed when a child's well-being is in question.

Talking to D10 about a safety plan is an excellent idea, and I appreciate the suggestion.

I am no expert on BPD, so I don't know to what extent I should be worried about physical harm to our daughter. This is the worst part for me.

My heart goes out to you as well and I wish you the best with your boys.
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Panda39
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 03:10:17 PM »

Hi burntout,

I would go back to court for more custody (and child support on your son, this may make keeping your daughter less appealing)

My SO used his children's school attendance in his custody case and I suggest you do the same.  In his case both girls had high absenteeism (a stomachache on Monday meant you could stay home all week YAY!  ) and the older daughter was pulled out of school (against the wishes of her dad, school principal and teachers) to be on-line schooled which in reality was no school and a 0.0GPA her first year of High School.  That would be Neglect folks   

When the divorce was final my SO was awarded Education Decision Making, Medical Decision Making and Dental Decision Making because he was able to document her neglect in these areas.

It's a testament to your daughter's hard work that she is doing well in school with 50 Tardies.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) 

I agree with the others your ex's mental health hospitalizations should also be brought up too.

Panda39



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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 03:30:43 PM »

Panda39,

Thanks much for your advice. This is very helpful.
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 03:55:12 PM »

burntout,

I think that  C<|||david's method of talking to D10 about safety are very good, not too overwhelming. Just encourage her to step away (bathroom, bedroom, go for walk around neighborhood) if she is feeling things escalate. Teach her to pay attention to her breathing, heart rate, body awareness if conflict is escalating and to know it's okay to take a break. You sound pretty empathetic to your xw, so you can even help D10 learn to state things like, "I am getting upset (or other feeling as appropriate), mom. I'll be back in 15 minutes to talk more. I just need to cool down." and then separate herself from the situation and return in 15 minutes. Does she have access to a phone, and can you agree to a code she uses when she really needs you to come by and help? These are short term fixes. The long term fix is that D10 should be with the parent that is emotionally stable and safe.

I am sorry for your xw, but she is the only one who can help herself. Really tough but most important is the safety of your daughter.
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2017, 07:27:37 PM »

All of your input has been very helpful.

Thanks, all.
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« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2017, 08:15:18 PM »

My personal experience and observations with my ex. When the s*** hit the fan in 2007 it was all about getting me through our boys. I didn't see it then. As it became visible to me I didn't know what to do. I was seeing a T at the time and she pointed out, and also this site, that the only way for things to change was for me to stop doing the same things in response to what ex was doing. That made sense to me but it did scare me because I felt that doing nothing was not going to help. It took months for me to see any positive change. It was small changes at first but it built on itself.
As things got better I occasionally saw, what I believed, were extinction bursts from ex. She wasn't getting what she was looking for and stepped it up to see if I would bite. I didn't even though it was not easy. This went on for three or four years. Late 2010 I got 50/50 from the courts and by then had several "victories" in court that ex started. She was always "winning" in the beginning and she didn't like not winning. This helped her to stop going to court all the time.
She now threatens me through email by sending an email to her attorney telling the attorney to file a petition  about something. I know because she also cc's it to me. I do nothing and nothing happens. She has done this at least 5 times in the last few years. I believe if I replied she would take me to court. This site always used to say, "negative engagement is still engagement". It rang true for me and that saying has taken a deeper meaning for me.
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2017, 11:51:55 AM »

David,

I'm seeing similar things only in the past several weeks. When she sends me some sprawling, outrageous, accusatory text message, I do not respond. Post that, things seem to settle down a bit. My only conclusion is that she sees this as some sort of victory for herself; tamping down my retaliation in some way. I'm fine with sucking it up as long as our daughter is ok.

In regards to the courts, she'd filed all kinds of things against me last Oct, then never showed up in court. Does she not understand how this makes her look in the eyes of the court system?

She is in some sort of hyper mode right now, filling our daughter's summer days with activities, overselling niceties and glad handing people who are not familiar with her past.
I have read that this sort of manic activity is a sign of an impending crash. Is this accurate?

What is an "extinction burst"? My BPD vernacular is not up to speed.

Thanks again
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Panda39
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2017, 01:12:46 PM »

I'm seeing similar things only in the past several weeks. When she sends me some sprawling, outrageous, accusatory text message, I do not respond. Post that, things seem to settle down a bit.

By not responding to her invalid emails you did not engage in the drama.  You did not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) which is excellent because when we JADE that tends to lead right into a never ending circular argument.  If you had responded you 1) validate her invalid comments and 2)engage in the drama.

More on JADE & Circular Arguments... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0


What is an "extinction burst"? My BPD vernacular is not up to speed.

Because she didn't get the reaction she typically does she may up the drama trying to get you to engage with her again like you have in the past.  You can see extinction bursts around setting boundaries... .think of it like a kid having a tantrum... .

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no... .kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum. What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.


Extinction Burst

The phenomenon of behaviour temporarily getting worse, not better when the reinforcement stops.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0


In regards to the courts, she'd filed all kinds of things against me last Oct, then never showed up in court. Does she not understand how this makes her look in the eyes of the court system?

My SO's uBPDxw (significant other's undiagnosed BPD ex-wife) did this as well.  She made false accusations of child abuse and then called in sick to court.  Was she really sick? That would be a no, she was out getting a mani/pedi with her daughter  .  For someone with BPD Feelings = Facts so in that moment she got her self all worked up emotionally and believed that her feelings where reality so she acted and contacted her attorney and I think later realized her mistake and couldn't figure out how to get out of it without looking foolish so she hid out until the situation went away... .that's my theory at least.  The court determined the charges were unfounded.

Panda39
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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2017, 01:26:17 PM »

This is all very helpful, Panda39. Thank you.
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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2017, 03:33:52 PM »

The other thing to realize is that if you set a new kind of boundary and the extinction burst gets "louder" you have to resist temptation to reply. If you do reply , you just set a new level of acceptance on your part. Changing those dynamics is sometimes not easy. It takes practice.
I used to get accusatory emails and I felt I had to reply to each and every incorrect statement. That led to a back and forth (engagement). When I finally stopped the accusations got wilder and the emails got longer. Sometimes, when I did not reply, I would get another email attacking me. That could extend to three or four over a course of several days.
Over time, a year or two, things got better. It went from 40 to 50 emails a month to about 5 a month now. The 5 are usually not as angry in their tone as before too. I now know, when I receive a negative email, that something is bothering ex and that she is simply venting to a safe person. I would much rather have that than her taking her anger out on one of our boys. 
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2017, 04:29:43 PM »

Thanks David

I'm seeing you're right about non-engagement. She's been uncharacteristically silent. She's a very bright person and I think that at some level there's a realization that I have literally hundreds of texts from her that I could show to someone in an official position, that may not cast her in the best light. However staunch my replies have been, I never swear, insult or accuse her of anything. Hers are of course littered with the like.

Still curious about this manic kind of energy she's been exhibiting. I'm getting texts from mothers of our daughter's school friends who have no previous history with her. They all say she started contacting them out of the blue and comes across as over-familiar and saccharine sweet, and they have felt uncomfortable enough to reach out to me about it. Again, I have read that this kind of manic behavior is a precursor to a crash. Anyone have any insights on this?
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2017, 07:44:04 PM »

My ex had some of the same behaviors when we first separated. As I became less interesting for her ( I stopped engaging) she went to other sources ( I believe).
A few weeks after she ran away her personal care physician (pcp) stopped by the house to see how I was doing. She indicated that people that exhibit my then wife's behavior were usually diagnosed as bipolar.  She explained that some people could be manic for long periods of time, as in years, and then became depressed. I started reading about bi polar and I kind of saw it but it didn't seem just right. I stumbled across BPD and the light bulb went off in my head. A lot of things all started to make sense.
I would say in the last few years she has exhibited depression more than the manic behaviors. She sleeps a lot according to our boys and pretty much stays in her room when they are there. They are on their own most of the time. We actually had a custody eval in 2010 and the evaluator asked both boys separately to describe a typical day with their dad and with their mom. He said that when they described their time with me I was usually included in the description. When they were with their mom their descriptions never mentioned their mom at all from either boy. The boys were saying things like that to me but when he pointed it out it really stood out quite differently. I listened to our boys but I interpreted things from the way I knew her. She is not that person anymore.
Save all the texts and emails including the ones from your daughters friends. I still have every email all the way back to 2007. There are thousands. Courts usually only look at the last 6 months but having years of the same kinds of behaviors would be significant if I ever had to go back to court.
Several of my younger sons friends parents interacted with my ex and would no longer allow their boys to play with him anymore. This happened a few years back and he was very upset about it. He was around 10 at the time. He found new friends at her neighborhood and keeps his mom at a distance from them and their parents. It limits him in some ways. I was concerned but realized informing her about it would not be positive for anyone.
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2017, 04:50:55 AM »

Hi Panda39,

My daughter downplays any negativity in regards to time with her mother, either to normalize it for herself or simply because she's just used to it. I'd say maybe she is just protecting her mom, but when she is with me she just says she wants to stay with me and not go back to her mother's house. For instance, she told me her mom was getting her to school on time, and then the school called me later that week to say she'd been late all but one day of the week. Aside from over 50 tardies this school year (thanks to mom), her grades are very good.

Our son's school filed a report with DCF last year, and as a result, he now resides with me.
The report was based in physical abuse. She also lost residential custody of her son from her 2nd failed marriage, because she ran off with all 3 kids to a "safe house", claiming abuse from her then husband, which was unsubstantiated, hence the removal of her other son, age 4.

Our daughter is her last piece of perceived "power", over me. She's even said as much.
This makes me worry that if she feels pushed against a wall, she will harm our daughter if only because she knows it's the only way to hurt me, which has been her ultimate MO for more years than I care to count.

This is very very similar to my situation and I am father/ex number 3.  The two before me have stated the story was the same with them as it is now with me and I just feel like a link in the toxic chain.  No doubt there will be a number 4 and in some ways there will be a sigh of relief as me and my daughter will no longer be the main focus and the triangulating/stopping contact will cease.  I will be an old toy that she no longer wants to play games with once she starts the whole pattern again with the next victim.
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2017, 07:26:30 PM »

Burntout, I can relate, my uxBPDw went "over the top" many times that got the local police, judges, lawyers and Dept of Child and Family Services (DCFS) involved many times. I have sole decision making authority (sole custody) of my D11, D9 and S7 . I don't worry as much as I did as the x now has moved from supervised visits to unsupervised visits but she has more at stake.  Frankly, she screws up again with the criminal penal code she is going to be behind bars.

I can definitely relate to your worry. I think it is a big deal to be late for school those many times. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to contact the DCFS if you suspect your son is in any danger whatsoever.

It is such a shame your x was diagnosed and took another road on her own. That is real dangerous. I am sure you love your son and he loves you, believe me these children going through this are getting this and understand what is really going on. On the other hand, they love their mothers and they are the only mothers they know.

I am so sorry you are going through this, it is such a shame what carnage occurs with what pwBPD cultivate to all that know them.

Hang in there, keep posting and keep us apprised, we care.
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2017, 07:46:14 PM »

I apologize Burntout, I meant your daughter.  There is something about protecting our daughters that take effect as their father that kick in exactly when they are born.
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 09:24:05 AM »

My ex ran away in 2007 and that is when the s*** hit the fan. Our boys were 4 and 8 at the time. I had all kinds of concerns. Today, our oldest (18) lives with me and that raised a bunch of concerns for our s14. It's been three months now and basically s14 is living in a house with his mom and has no interaction with her. I went to pick him up this last Wednesday since it was my custodial time. I called s14 about 5 minutes before arriving. That call woke him up. It took him about 25 minutes to get all his things and then he came out of her residence. I asked him why mom didn't wake him and he told me she was sleeping. He has indicated he makes most of his meals there, goes to sleep when he is tired, etc, no supervision at all. I can't change any of that and if I emailed ex about it that would produce nothing positive. Soo, I teach him how to cook and be safe, spend time talking to him about going to bed at a reasonable hour because school is starting soon, and anything thing else I can think of. His life will be different because of this but it is what it is and the courts will not help.
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