Is lying common with BPD?

[kim2017]

Hello,

I'm just wondering if lying is common with BPD? My ex didn't just lie about small things, he lied repeatedly, with a straight face about big things such as marital status (he was married and claimed he was divorced over a year), lied about conversations he claimed to have had with his family, lied about so many things and when confronted, he would continue to lie with a perfect straight face.

Is this common with BPD? And if so, can someone explain why? Some of the lies were so childish and unnecessary.

[hopealways]

Yes VERY common.
Mine lied about everything even about the coffee shop she was at: she would say Starbucks when she was in Coffee Bean.

[jambley]

hi

I don't know, I caught her in one big lie and several small ones. i just didn't trust her because of who she was with/where she had gone... .the following day i would hear things like 'I slept in a hotel last night.'

'Shielding' was a term she used once in conversation... .it all came out that she had been a slut in the past... .it was horrible to hear. I think it was just deceiving to hear emotional baggage.

I witnessed her narcissistic smirk too when lying.

If there is any point to their lying it might be to gain power over you, to pull the wool over your eyes and test your boundaries.

[Roselily]

Yes, my ex bf and friend ( girl) both lied and continues to do so. I believe at times they truly believe themselves... causes a lot of confusion ... until the light bulb goes off!

[40days_in_desert]

In my experience with ex, there were two types of lies. First, the "feelings = facts" which I'm sure most here are aware of. These lies were things she truly believed to be true but were not true. They usually came in the form of some accusation like something I said/did or didn't say/do; opposite of what was really said by me. The second were blatant lies. These were usually in the form of where she was, why she was late (1-2 hours+), how much money she spent, whether she handled something, etc. Two interesting points are 1) these lies were usually easily confirmed but she lied anyway and 2) many were cases where it would have been easier to tell the truth like saying she went to the grocery store, which was innocent or normal, but instead saying that she was somewhere else that was innocent or normal like the post office.
I remember one time where she had admitted to lying in general. She told me that the lies that she told were "little lies" and didn't really mean anything... .? Oh and that it was my fault somehow that she lied.

[ScottishKin]

The lying thing really gets to me.

My estranged wife was, by all accounts, a very honest person. She didn't seem to even tell little white lies (except perhaps deflating the cost of something she had bought - who hasn't), and this was something I greatly admired in her. I, on the other hand, could be little dishonest sometimes. I did hide things from her. Nothing big, nothing major, but through experience I'd spin the truth to avoid the wrath.

The difference between us was not our morality or integrity, but rather, she felt no need to be dishonest or censor herself because she was dealing with me - a - relatively speaking - emotionally healthy, rational adult. I had to deal with strong and persistent BPD traits where sometimes complete honestly would lead to sulking, silent withdrawl or explosive anger and verbal abuse. I still beat myself up about not always being as truthful and honest with her as I should or perhaps wanted to be.

Despite her honesty at a surface level however, as has been pointed out already, there is that 'other' kind of lie, the one we recognise as a complete selfish manipulation of facts or complete pretzel twist of a truth in order to justify their current feeling, aid in the they're-always-the-victim mantra or - in my case, to recruit proxies, normally whichever of her three sisters she was talking to at the time. It was coming to terms with the reality that these are the real lies, lying to herself and others for vindication or to justify the overwhelming hate she felt towards me at THAT MOMENT based on her emotional dysregulation, that was the hardest. It was a subconscious deceit and they will never know it.

The one I always remember is during a conversation with her sister on the phone during a period she had painted me black, she relayed a story from a while back where I "threatened to elbow her in the face".

In fact, the truth of this story is that I'd said words to that effect as I was waking from a dream of someone else poking and prodding at me. I immediately shook myself awake, asked her to clarify if had just said that and profusely apologised, explaining she has roused me from a dream. I apologised again and hugged her as we fell back to sleep.

But that story doesn't have as much jazz when your hating on your husband.

[jinglebells1989]

The one I was with was unemployed for the first 4 months we were dating. Everytime I saw her during the week the first thing I'd ask was "how was work today" and she'd give me a run down of the day's events... .

It was done effortlessly. Can't imagine the other crap she lied about.

[bus boy]

ScottishKin, a lot of what you described was my Xw, she is a hard working woman, very good job of 18 years, has money, doesn't smoke rarley drinks and I could go on but the other side of the coin is very ugly. She will twist words in an unbelievable manner, she will deceive you and you would think she is being so nice, she has something horrible to say about everyone and than have a big fake hi for that person. One time a coworker came up to us in the mall to wish us merry Xmas, when we parted, Xw started in a rant of how ignorant and rude that person was. Xw is on the surface a very honest person but when it comes down to hard truthful facts, like family court she is nothing but a ball of lies and deceitfulness. When she is challenged on her behaviour she turns into a crazy woman.

[A Different Me]

They lie so much they actually believe this distorted reality - when you catch them in the lie, you could have text messages, photos, DNA match and they will defend their version of the truth- that has no truth to it.
Common in people who go to prison- they actually have to manifest a distorted reality that allows them to blame or defer accountability because their ego is cracked- if they admit to wrong doing they suffer immense pain because it takes them back to the moment their ego was fractured, some immense trauma occurrence that lead them on the path to PD.

When I caught the two females I was in relationship with in lies- one I had her text messages, she sat in a chair and looked about 3 degrees to the right and kept saying " No, No, No" - I should have ended the relationship then but I told her early in the relationship I would give it my all - and I sure did - I left the relationship because I was too broken to carry on. The last unhealthy relationship I was with a Narc, she lied about being pregnant to me and with the guy she was cheating on me with- lied about a miscarriage, covered up an abortion- got back with her X husband strange enough, then cheated on him and got pregnant and had a baby- she hasn't admitted to anyone the truth- she is incapable.

[Panda39]

I discovered BPD by Googling "Chronic Lying" in relation to my SO's uBPDxw.

I think in her case that there was some feelings = facts types of behaviors but I it's more about dealing with unadmitted/unrecognized shame.  Her FOO is all about money and appearances so her particular brand of BPD focuses heavily on those two things.

She is being evicted but in the same breath will tell you she's buying a half million dollar house. 

She sent her daughter off to college out east with the promise that her "family trust" (that didn't exist) would pay for tuition... .daughter was kicked out and now owes the college 15k... .daughter returns home and mom starts talking to her about the next college she can get her into.  (D20 is NC at this point)

Can't tell you how many amazing jobs she's had (not!)... .logistics coordinator, works for a petroleum company in the Seychelles, is making international stock sales with people in Hong Kong... .

Then there is buying things you can't afford... .the family trip that she bought one-way tickets for but told everyone was round trip (rent money was used to get home to the home they couldn't pay for), sending D16 out of state to camp on a one-way ticket and not paying for camp, renting the 2 bedroom townhouse on her alimony (got evicted) & then did the same thing again... .

A million magical promises... .trips to Washington DC and beyond, the houses she's gonna buy, the cars she's gonna buy, the camp she's gonna send you to, the college she's gonna send you to, the dance class she's gonna get you in, the clothes she gonna buy you, promises to friends and family and even the Rabi for money/donations (that of course she doesn't have the money for)... .

IMO it's a BPD distortion of her family values and her shame and she is just locked into the same pattern of lies.  I've been with my SO for seven years and up to last week she was telling him about the apartment she was going to move into (she currently lives with a flying monkey friend of hers and has for the last year and a half) she loses her alimony this month and to our knowledge has no job.

Panda39

[Stolen]

I discovered BPD by Googling "Chronic Lying" in relation to my SO's uBPDxw.

I think in her case that there was some feelings = facts types of behaviors but I it's more about dealing with unadmitted/unrecognized shame.  Her FOO is all about money and appearances so her particular brand of BPD focuses heavily on those two things.

She is being evicted but in the same breath will tell you she's buying a half million dollar house. 

She sent her daughter off to college out east with the promise that her "family trust" (that didn't exist) would pay for tuition... .daughter was kicked out and now owes the college 15k... .daughter returns home and mom starts talking to her about the next college she can get her into.  (D20 is NC at this point)

Can't tell you how many amazing jobs she's had (not!)... .logistics coordinator, works for a petroleum company in the Seychelles, is making international stock sales with people in Hong Kong... .

Then there is buying things you can't afford... .the family trip that she bought one-way tickets for but told everyone was round trip (rent money was used to get home to the home they couldn't pay for), sending D16 out of state to camp on a one-way ticket and not paying for camp, renting the 2 bedroom townhouse on her alimony (got evicted) & then did the same thing again... .

A million magical promises... .trips to Washington DC and beyond, the houses she's gonna buy, the cars she's gonna buy, the camp she's gonna send you to, the college she's gonna send you to, the dance class she's gonna get you in, the clothes she gonna buy you, promises to friends and family and even the Rabi for money/donations (that of course she doesn't have the money for)... .

IMO it's a BPD distortion of her family values and her shame and she is just locked into the same pattern of lies.  I've been with my SO for seven years and up to last week she was telling him about the apartment she was going to move into (she currently lives with a flying monkey friend of hers and has for the last year and a half) she loses her alimony this month and to our knowledge has no job.

Panda39

Panda,

So much of this could have been written by me.  Not just xW, who seemingly lied about almost everything for 30 years, but her FOO going back to her grandmother.  Before it became so damaging, it was almost laughable - their twisted stories that were clearly false, that always were painting a picture that didn't exist. I would give them enough rope, then ask a question on a clear inconsistency, that would eventually result in them just retreating in self-righteous  silence. 

The promises of gifts for the children, detailed in such glorious enthusiasm, that you knew would never materialize. It would be a promise that would just vaporize.   

The grand show of SIL (more Histrionic than anything else) creating "Trust Funds" for my daughters. Oh - the grand show of this largesse.  I still chuckle to this day, as the account statements still come to my address.  I think there is $0.84 in one of the accounts, and the other one has a negative balance due to some assessed fees.  That just defines it so well to me.  Trust Funds.  Sounded good, though... .

MIL telling a story of how the (my) wedding had strapped her financially, but was so important to her.  Umm - I paid for it. Everything.  And she had labeled it "awful" because it was not at the Plaza.  I am not sure what world they lived in, but it was certainly a twisted one.

And your comment about bunking with the flying monkey?  xW has now moved with my daughter(s)? back in with her flying mother .  It seems they can never escape the enmeshment that molded them. 

[gjkopriv]

WOW, It's so sad, that the same lies are recycled to all of us. I read through the posts and in  the very long year I dealt with a BPD woman, I almost heard everyone of these lies.  First the marriage, I never even questioned if she was divorced, even though I thought it was weird that the ex spent a ton of time at the house, I just figured he was the one that took care of the kids more often. fast forward a year later when things were real bad and she threatened to marry my replacement who was made up for the most part, even telling me that she went to the courthouse to get a marriage license which is public info in my state and she totally made that up. The other ones about not wanting to go home so she stayed in a hotel, but when she would get to the hotel, she would go quiet... .The most disturbing one was, when I finally had enough and told her this wasn't going to work, she told me her dad passed away. the guy that supposedly abused her, that she hasn't talked to in 10 +years but it bothered her so much to the point that she was hurt and distanced herself from me... .fast forward again to about 1 month no contact this past year and I find out her dad actually died... .8 months after she told me he died... .how could someone lie about that?  that's the part i'll never understand, but they will say anything to make them feel better or cover their lies... .I don't know if they're  good liars or they're just so good at training us that we would believe anything they say for a short time... .oh I got the pregnant thing twice also, and when I told her I'm going for full custody because she's not a fit mother to the 2 she has, she somehow had a miscarriage 3 days later... .and she was rich,successful, and all that... .

[Panda39]

The promises of gifts for the children, detailed in such glorious enthusiasm, that you knew would never materialize. It would be a promise that would just vaporize.   

This might be a whole other topic but, in terms of gifts... .

My SO's ex gave him the window sticker of a car he liked and told him she was getting it for him.  Feelings=Facts... .Desire+Window Sticker=Car!

She got one of her daughters a TV Guide for Christmas (the only gift  )... .Forget about all 9 days of Hanukah.

She went through the motions of buying a multi-million dollar house... .that my SO had to shut down when the realtor called him wanting him to provide paperwork!

Lots of cards with empty promises for Birthdays and Christmas    Those poor girls have been let down so many times... .D16 has PTSD because of her mothers inconsistent behaviors/empty promises.

Then there was the 4 Trillion dollar stock deal she was going to make... .yep that would be more than the entire US Budget   

It's Wack-a-doodle stuff   It never ends but luckily for us it has become way less often and way less damaging... .We all just expect it and don't buy it.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi kim2017,

Is this common with BPD? And if so, can someone explain why? Some of the lies were so childish and unnecessary.

My exBPDbf was also dishonest.  I think if we remember that we are dealing with a person who has the emotional level of a child this puts things into perspective a little. 

Fear of abandonment can be a huge driver for lack of trust and this in turn can possibly create a sort of self preservation tendency - not giving away too much of our true feelings/activities - almost a bit like, 'You're up to something so I'm going to behave that way too' - a very childlike response.  This is how it appeared to be in the case of my ex.  He was convinced that if I hadn't already cheated I would and even said that he would go out and do it just to get me back.  He also said that he would 'get in there first'.  I never knew if he was faithful or cheated repeatedly. 

He would regularly swear he'd only had 3 sexual partners his whole life (suspiciously low for a man in his mid 30's but not impossible) yet once very convincingly 'confessed' that it had actually been more like a hundred.  Later he admitted he'd been lying when he said this.  Whichever was true, there's no doubt that one of these statements was a blatant lie... .I had this happen a lot. 

Then there was the needless secrecy about really minor things of no real consequence.  At the time I believed that stemmed from the feeling that he was 'different' or 'special' and had a need to create intrigue around himself.  It always felt like I was a parent rather than a partner when it came to the sneakiness and dishonesty.

Hope that helps a little. 

How are you doing in yourself?

Love and light x

[Roselily]

Yes, my ex lied about things they didn't have to lie about. It was commonplace I realised in the end. Didn't matter what it was about. I even caught them red handed... with proof right there, they started to rage, calling me the liar... It was mind blowing... .talk abt making me crazy... .till I realised what it was... .yeah... most of those I've known with the characteristics  of both NPD and BPD are notorious for lying ...

[FSTL]

Mine confided in me that she lied and on another occasion admitted she had thought about doing something dishonest to protect her work reputation.

I don't think this of itself is remarkable as a lot of people would do this.

But then I caught her lying all the time about relationship issues. I told her she had a tell, then she used to tense her face when she was telling a lie and looking right at me ("tell avoidance", as I said to her). She cheated and lied about it whilst at the same time falsely accusing me of cheating.

One time when she ended things, she was on all sorts of rants about why she was ending things... .all of them were Wong and all were dishonest projections.

All the lying was probably the main reason I would never let her back in now - how can you ever trust someone who lies so freely and pathologically?

[Stolen]

 - how can you ever trust someone who lies so freely and pathologically?

You can't.