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Author Topic: DD25 was arrested early Monday morning  (Read 439 times)
qcarolr
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« on: March 01, 2012, 11:25:42 AM »

DD25 was arrested early Monday morning after careless driving traffic stop - was fumbling with getting registration etc - failed roadside test - refused blood testing for drugs at jail (automatic driving license revoked for a year). I bailed her out of jail Monday afternoon and her arraignment hearing is on April 10th. Her bail terms - no driving, no alcohol or drugs, substance monitoring (daily breathilizers, random UA's - 4 per month).

Last night she was in a panic - chain smoking cigarettes. Asked to let bf drive car for beer as cigs "were not helping". I said no. House rule - 'no illegal activity'. So a couple hours later she calls me and says she is walking to nearby city (where her friends live - about 10 miles) and she was freaking out to go back to jail because she just could not do it right - remember to sign the food sheet, sign up for clean clothes, etc based on her last jail stay. And she could not stay clean and sober - asked me to not call police. Sounded very suicidal. She was crying and in such distress. Her friend G was with her - he had come over yesterday afternoon. So I knew she was not alone and chose not to call police.

I was able to breath, talk calmly with dh about the situation. We agreed not to call police and not to let her come back to the house unless she was able to comply with the bond terms. I know after she misses her appt. with community justice services (with her monitoring case manager) and misses her breathelizer today there may be a warrant out for her arrest.

She texted this morning that she needs me and wants to come home and to tell gd6 she loves her. My response was:

"Then i need for u to find the courage to ask for help with ur drug n alcohol problem. This is the way to show u care by taking care of yourself. Check into ARC"   (Alcohol Recovery Center)


As expected I have not heard back from her today. I am at peace with myself with this reply. Last night whenever I woke up and worried I just said a little prayer for God to send an angel DD's way to keep her safe. That is my prayer for her today as well.

I realize more strongly than ever how powerless I am over DD's choices. And that she has to follow the rules to be in our home.

Also, she is in a heightened state - her emotional baseline is very high and she has little tolerance for frustration. She is ready to blow at the slightest trigger. This is not a safe situation for us or gd. It was actually a prayer answered for her to walk away last night so I did not have to turn her out. THis also helps limit her access to blaming me for the choice to blow her bond terms and risk being put back in jail without bond. Wonder if I get my $500 back? Dh and I were prepared to lose this money when we bonded her out.

Gd is so much more relaxed when her mom and friendG are not in the house. She is also more relaxed with our little puppy gone, even though we are still sad. I am no longer hearing him whining around the house - know that was just some kind of auditory memory but it was creepy for those first few days after he died from injuries being hit by car last Friday.

God answers prayers in such unexpected ways - and filled with so much sorrow for me along the way. The puppy was not normal - maybe oxygen deprived at birth or something - and had bitten a little friend of gd's last week even as dh was holding his harness. He was needing so much energy from me to manage. DD was struggling to manage her self-control in our house and I became convinced she was doing harder drugs - pot mellowed her and she has been energized. I was confounded about how to deal with getting her out of our house. So her arrest and now her walking away at least temporarily gives us some space to figure out the next step.

I am trying really really hard to take things one day at a time. Things are so unpredictable all the worry about anything beyond that is a waste of my scarce personal resources. I am so dizzy and have waves of fatigue that wash over me during the day. If I sit quiet for a few moments i find myself falling asleep. Need to take care of myself now. Need to be here for gd now. DD has made her choice - I have to let her live with it.

Thanks for listening, for your prayers for guidance and courage.

qcr  Being cool (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 11:30:36 AM »

The best thing for her is a treatment program or jail.  At jail she'll be contained and safe.  Maybe she needs to attend the school of hard knocks.  She's not pulling herself together any other way. 
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qcarolr
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 11:38:50 AM »

Jail has not provided her any help in the past. Probably because she doesn't ask for help, doesn't want anyone to know she doesn't get it, or doesn't believe she has a problem.  So far she has refused to be involved in any treatment program - ie. strong denial that she does not have 'control' of her substance use.

So maybe things are on a different path now. I knew if she stayed in jail it would be the same as before. She blamed me. As it is now, she was unable to stay in our house and suffer the withdrawal or whatever she is going through. She is the one who has chosen to walk away from our house. Before we were the ones to make her leave.

This is the first time I have been able myself to accept that she has more than the underlying mental health and cognitive deficit issues. I have been coming to this place of accepting the drug addiction over the past couple of months. Now I have confronted her with this acceptance on my part, and let her know she has to be in a recovery program to return home. And she will have to comply with whatever the courts ask - even if she believes "I did nothing wrong".

She is 25, and adult, and she has to choose to her life. I just pray she survives this process for now. I cannot save her or protect her from herself.

qcr
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 03:24:00 PM »

qcarolr,

Im so so sorry to hear what you are going through, my thoughts are with you, its a very hard time, I got no good advice, I only wish i did

my thoughts are with you.

One thing i did hear and this may not be helpful but I did have to think of the worse case sinario for my dd. Ending up in jail would be terrible but I have heard from proffesionals that when a pwBPD ends up in jail they often get the best therapy and more intense, it can help a whole lot more. I hope it wont ever come to this for any of us.  I know you say jail has never helped in the past so maybe it still wouldnt but it wont always be the same.

I always feel dd would have to get to rock bottom before she asks for help.
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 04:10:50 PM »

Oh my goodness I just asked the doc that same question. The answer was: no. It is a very effective treatment for depression that does not respond to other therapies. But it has shown no effect on BPD.

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 05:15:55 PM »

q,

Making boundaries (boundaries you can stick with) is hard.

And sticking to them and enforcing them is very, very overwhelmingly hard. We second guess, we kid ourselves into thinking that things might go worse if we quit bending to their will.

But the thing is, without the boundaries, things might go worse if you keep bending to her will... .

Find that tiny kernal of resolve within yourself and be STRONG. The things you wish for your daughter are not possible in the situation you have had her in. She wasn't compliant. She is struggling.  You have been struggling these months since she has been living in your house again.

If she has to go to jail, she will figure it out, maybe with some detatched guidance from you. If she doesn't get help this way, how is she going to get this help? You've seemed pretty sure that there was a long waiting list standing in her way to get treatment and no money etc.

It is hard to stand these boundaries when she is so disregulated and especially since she is going to blame and blame and blame. She is sick and needs your boundaries to be able to get well. She doesn't know what she is doing to herself. LET ALONE  You, GD, and your DH.

Sticking to the house rules game plan is your BEST shot. It's the best way you have to help her.

I don't think it matters what is causing her disregulation right now (BPD. addiction, panic). It is when she is in this state that you have to let go of the status quo cause it hasn't really served anyone very well at all.

Excerpt
Gd is so much more relaxed when her mom and friendG are not in the house.



Be strong for your GD. She is depending on you to provide a stress free living environment.

12 step programs have a way of getting the "I didn't do anything wrong" dialog out of their heads. BPD, cognitive issues, whatever, if she is using she needs to accept her powerlessness. Praying this will happen someday soon. Meanwhile, you have to keep your eye on the sobriety prize until it clicks for her.

I'm so sorry it's so hard right now. We are listening!


Thursday
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 06:29:08 PM »

"Then i need for u to find the courage to ask for help with ur drug n alcohol problem. This is the way to show u care by taking care of yourself. Check into ARC"   (Alcohol Recovery Center)

And that should be your only response.  She is an addict and BPD.  She must get help.  Your family is not safe with her in your home.

I had a BPD whom I never thought would hurt me throw a little cigarette and hit me in the head from the top of the stairs while I was walking down the stairs with an INFANT in my arms this week.  She was on Crack.  That drug makes people very dangerous due to what is does to the brain.  Meth is worse.

You are doing the right thing.  I know how hard it is when they are remorseful and full of promises and I know that there are probably many really great things about your daughter that you love very much.  But crack and BPD can make a person very unpredictable and dangerous and they can flip to rage in seconds.  I am sure that you are all sleeping better with her gone and that is not her fault either.  It is the fault of two lousy diseases that steal the souls of people and feed off of each other.
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 08:01:57 PM »

qcr,

I am so sorry that you are going through this.  Perhaps, rehab will be an option offered for your dd.  Perhaps, it may seem more appealing than jail.  But, if not, then she may get her treatment in jail.  Hard for a mom to know her dd is in jail.  I know that it would be hard, but she would be alive.  She will have time, and maybe time will help her realize what she needs to do. 

It was time for your dd to leave your house.  Drugs exacerbated her mood swings.  It is dangerous to be around someone under the influence of crack or meth. 

I will pray for your dd to have angels watching over her.   

xoxo

peaceplease
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 10:29:38 AM »

Well, DD did not leave our home for more than a day. Dh and I are not willing to put her out on the street. Tried this. Only made things worse. She does not want to be in jail - she cannot manage the system there. I do believe her that she panics and gets put in isolation. This has been how she looks since toddlerhood - stress reaction looks like defiance. It is her survival reaction.

So I am putting lots of pressure on her to get with her casemanager/counselor at mental health. I do believe the fear of jail and the random substance monitoring may limit her choices to do drugs. We will see what she chooses to do.

She does know that I will call the police if she loses control in any way when GD is in the house. She goes to her room and hides under the covers - and does regain her self-control.

Not the ideal situation. Staying vigilant, dh and I are working together on this. It is hard to come here knowing that many believe we can put in place stronger boundaries. Hard to hear. But I will keep coming anyway. Must get something I need from being here.

qcr

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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 10:56:43 AM »

qcr,

Am not at your point yet is DD is 19, has no children, etc.  But if I were in your place, I can easily picture myself coming to the solution you have.  Ultimately, the boundaries you set and the consequences for going over them are ones you have to be comfortable with and know you can stick to.  You clearly aren't with stricter boundaries, which is why you are wise to slack up a bit to a place you know you can enforce.  In the end all of this is a very personal decision.  It is great that you and your DH are together on this and I wish you the best of luck.
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 04:16:10 PM »

qcaroir

I think there are general principles and then there is the application of those principles to one's own situation.  Of course, it is easy for anyone to present the principles, but as my dh and I have discovered the actual personal choices and even variables can be another matter. 

I am not a big fan of the street, contrary to common mental health advice.  My dh and I and my fil have all agreed that it just isn't the best option for our very ill son, so we practise harm reduction, against all advice, with much judgment from my foo, to the point that we have lost contact.  We all agree that my BPDs23 would be dead now, if we had acted differently.  He isn't too great, but this way I can provide good nutrition, company and I have a dx.  If he was on the street as everyone  advised, he wouldn't have dx or DBT treatment and he wouldn't be spending hours a day talking to me and fil.  Or eating good food or drinking protein drinks. 

I did have him removed from house with RO in January because he was unbearably verbally abusive, after 3 weeks when his health was very seriously jeopardized, he was allowed to come home, under much stricter conditions.

I am sure most people would judge my take to be insane, but the reality is that my BPDs23 is sloowly improving.  It's like losing weight, I think.  There is a self -destructive tendency in all of us.

Reality


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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 05:09:23 PM »

Dear qcarolr,  All good thoughts to you and your husband as you move into this phase of active acknowledgment of the addiction by all.  Despite it being SOO difficult, it is a positive for her and one for you.  For you, you were stuck in never never land unable to take any action.  Now the road is clearer despite not knowing the future.  For her, it can be a lifesaver.  You and your husband are amazing and strong to look so directly at a such pain and sadness from this situation and still be organizing your actions for best effect.  Never think that anyone here disapproves of your handling of your situation. I certainly do not.  I look to your posts for your amazing compassion.  No one here has any answers -- only guesses, wishes, hopes, and hugs... .
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 07:02:07 PM »

Not the ideal situation. Staying vigilant, dh and I are working together on this. It is hard to come here knowing that many believe we can put in place stronger boundaries. Hard to hear. But I will keep coming anyway. Must get something I need from being here.

qcr

It is your decision.  But you are making a choice.  You can do whatever you want.  Your daughter is doing whatever she pleases.  Has that occurred to you?  It is hard to read the things your GD says to be honest.  I know how painful this is to you, but have you decided in your mind how far this will all go before your daughter does have to deal with consequences?  She took your car.  She got a DUI and was doing drugs in it.  Your GD has expressed her discomfort about her and her BF being in the house.  She has been verbally abusive.  She has acted with disregard to her child and to you.  

Like I said, I have a BPD of the same age who does crack in my life and I NEVER thought that she would hurt me.  And yet, after telling her that I would not buy her another flat screen TV to cover up for the fact that she sold the one her father gave her for crack, she hit me in the head with a lit cigarette while I was carrying HER infant daughter down the stairs after a supervised visit that I moved heaven and earth to arrange.  If I had fallen with that child we both could have been hurt seriously.  Her baby could have been hit with a lit cigarette.  Then, the CPS worker is there with me discussing the incident with her and she flips a coffee table at us.  Then, not 30 minutes after taking her to her psychiatrist and therapist who spend two hours talking things over with her, she goes across the river to get crack.  I get a panicked call from her mother.  This time it was different.  We didn't call a cab.  We called her probation officer and she is now sitting in jail in New Jersey awaiting a violation hearing in PA.  She is going to jail.  It is over.  And I am glad.  Enough is enough.  The baby's father is willing to sign over custody, she is losing custody and the baby is being adopted by her sister.  I have come to the sad conclusion that the only thing that would have happened if she had been allowed to return home is that she would have really hurt someone when she did not get her own way.  This is very sad for us all, but at some point you have to let go and do what is best for the family.   Keeping a dangerous addict around was not best for any of us, including the addict.  She will be forced to get treatment in prison and I pray that it wakes her up.  I don't feel sorry for her any more.  That was our mistake all along.  Too many excuses and rationalizations made for too long.

I feel a great sense of peace knowing that there will be no more desparate phone calls, trips to the hospital because she has hurt herself, having to watch my stuff so she won't steal it when she comes over, lie upon lie upon lie, lack of remorse, blame shifting, manipulation, rage in front of my children, rage in front of my elderly Mom (her grandmother), rehab after rehab, all of the BS that goes along with BPD.  My sister, her mother, has told her that she is done with her.  No visits this time.  No care packages.  No rent being paid when she gets out.  No running to the pawn shop to get back the stuff she just sold.  It took her a long time to get to this point, but she realizes that she has not been doing her a favor by cleaning up her messes.  And she knows that baby Lily will be better off with my other neice and her husband, who are great parents.  Karen made her own destiny in the end.  She wanted crack more than she wanted help.  I pray for her and I hope that this time in prison gives her structure, mental health help and perspective.  One thing the doctor said to us that has really struck me is this "Sometimes you can love an addict to death."  I think that is what we al were doing.  Now she has to do her own work.  There is lots of help available in prison.  It is up to her.

And just so you know - I loved this girl with all my heart.  I loved her from the day she was born.  But the drugs and her father's abuse of her and her mother damaged her very deeply.  I understand all of that.  I understand where her disease comes from.  But that doesn't change how I have come to feel about the choices she is making and the reality of the situation.  It was not a matter of if, but when she seriously hurt someone.  Sad but true.
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 07:20:50 PM »

There comes a time where you have to save yourselves. And your granddaughter.  I keep reading everywhere that we need to step away from the BPD and let them fall on their ___es.  That we're doing them a disservice by always saving them, solving their problems, cleaning up their messes.  That they don't learn consequences or how to make retributions.  It's hard for me too to leave my ex alone.  I want to rush in, save him, make everything right,etc.  But after speaking to a few BPD experts, I've been told to leave him alone.  Some people need to hit bottom before they'll seek help.  So I'm trying the very little contact action.  He knows where I am--  we live 3 miles from each other.  He knows that I want him to go to a counselor.  He needs to be compliant with his anti-depressants.  He knows he can't be involved with me and my kids if he's actively drinking.  I'm terrible with boundaries, but I'm working hard with maintaining them with the ex.  I can't lower my standards.  He has to improve himself and rise to meet my standards or we can't share a life.  Maybe he'll wake up and realize that we're worth the effort.  It's hard because it's all so clear to me, but it's not my problem to solve.  And I just love being Miss Fix It.
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 10:05:31 PM »

It is so easy to say - well just until ****. Like now, just until the preliminary hearing April 10th. But what then. The public defender will not take her case until the day of the preliminary hearing. That seems so crazy to me. A private lawyer is there from the bond hearing on.

DD's SSI lawyer called today and told her the new lawyer would not take her case for appeal at the district court level. Not enough medical evidence because DD has 'not tried hard enough'.  My reply is 'you need to be seeing someone every week at mental health and be honest with them about your struggles'. She says 'i am too busy'. ":)oing what?' I ask.

THen I realize this is going nowhere as it has always gone nowhere. DD is just not willing to do what is needed. So dh and I have to figure out how to disengage from her financial need. She has to solve this her own way. Just am too tired to think about it more tonight.

Gamegirl - thank you for sharing this. It is so hard. It is such a good thing for this baby to have a loving home to go to. I hope it all works for good over time. I often wish dh and I had accepted 'interference' from social services when gd was 9 months old. Dh did not want his privacy invaded by the certification process - we followed a private custody route and were lucky that it worked. Or maybe not. It would be better now if we had been in the place to choose to try to adopt gd. But I would have had to sever entirely my r/s with DD for that to happen. And I have not been willing to do that -am still not willing. How do I come to that place? I know there are supports around me in my community that would help me with this - why do I avoid them? Maybe I fear dh will walk away and then I would be alone to care for gd. Or I could not care for her and she would be taken away from me. I hear from DD every day what a bad mom I am - how I stole her child - and I know DD neglected (and still neglects) and abandons her child. Why do I still question my worth as a mom and grandma?

I feel like all I get from my T is a pat on the head for what I have endured - I need a shove in the right direction. So maybe I come here to get the shove I know I need. It is coming to me. I am calling my al anon sponsor now - called 3 times this week. Never did this before. I am reaching out to the child T that is working with gd and I. dh refuses to go with me to meet with her. maybe I need to just schedule the appt. and then take him. he would probably go. She is the one closest to our situation - and with gd's best interest clearly in mind. Maybe she can give us the shove that we need.

qcr
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 10:13:08 PM »

Dear qcarol:  I just finished reading through today's posts on this thread, and wanted to add an AlAnon thought about all our advice:  "Take what you like and leave the rest."  Thank you for sharing your journey with us.  You help all of us more than you will ever know.  Peace and blessings to you and your family.   Swampped   
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 08:40:25 AM »

qcr,  I have been reading this thread for a few days and wanted to respond, but I couldn't think of what to say.  In terms of offering helpful advice, this is beyond me. But know that I'm praying for your family and thinking of all of you.  It is evident from your posts that you are all very strong in your own ways.  Even your DD has inner strengths; they just seem to be channeled in the wrong direction.  But if she could put them to good use, who knows what she could accomplish?  Trust your instincts when it comes to how you should respond. You know her better than anyone else in the world. What is best for other families is not necessarily best for yours.  Use what is helpful from this site and leave the rest.  Take care of yourself ad have faith in yourself, and the rest will fall into place.  xoxo
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 01:39:08 PM »

It is so easy to say - well just until ****. .

Gamegirl - thank you for sharing this. It is so hard. It is such a good thing for this baby to have a loving home to go to. I hope it all works for good over time. I often wish dh and I had accepted 'interference' from social services when gd was 9 months old. Dh did not want his privacy invaded by the certification process - we followed a private custody route and were lucky that it worked.

It is so easy to keep extending the boundaries.  But what amazed my sister and I was how heavy the phone was when we picked it up to call the authorities and how much it got lighter and lighter second by second as we just told the plain truth about what was going on with Karen.  After I did, I saw things for what they were.  And the sad part is that I work with these types of folks for a living.  But it doesn't matter when it is your own.   BPD/addicts pull family right into their webs that their primitive defense mechanisms are so good at making.

As for your GD - she does have a good home and it is you. God intended it that way.  You are meant to be her Mommy.  Never second guess that.  Own it.  Believe it.  Let go of your guilt and what you need to do will become clear.  You did not break your DD.  It is not your fault.  And, by letting her go, you just might be giving her the space to finally learn to solve her own problems.  If she can con and manipulate to the level you described here, she can figure out how to get her laundry done in jail.



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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 10:24:05 PM »

Update as Jan 2018 approaches. DD spent the fall of 2013 and 9 months of 2014 in jail. For the 2012 DUI plus a misdemeanor altercation with bf. She failed at each level of jail based support -- work release, work crew, treatment based pod... .  She ended up doing just straight time the last 4 months.

She got into trouble again in 2016 and I offered to bail her out only if she went immediately to crisis center (across parking lot from county jail) to get help. She was in 2 week respite program with daily meetings with peer counselor and case manager. There was very little open for her -- no housing for sure. They set up outpatient treatment that she did not follow through with. She ended up on probation and her PO sent her for detox for 5 days. Then a few weeks later she was admitted into a residential treatment program. She violated by getting high 2 times and ended back in detox. Soon after her release from this program she and her bf left the state. They started a new path. Have been clean for 10 months now. She finally got her SSI approved after several applications rejected.  She and bf have a new baby -- only time will tell the direction this story will take. One day at a time for sure.

I have a new post, just felt the desire to update this one.

carol
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