Dealing With Possessive Jealousy

[MrRight]

On a car journey recently - pwBPD SO in front passenger seat - me driving.

From some distance I see an attractive woman walking, dressed for the summer, shorts, skimpy top etc - long flowing silky hair.

Now I never turn my head to look at women even if I do see someone I like - if my wife is with me of course - it is not respectful. But I do notice if a beautiful woman is around - who does not.

So i keep me cool on this occasion as I know what may come - head directly forward - resist any temptation to look.

However - I notice that she is looking. After we pass she looks directly at me - wont take her eyes off my face - I cant help the slightest of smirks, nobody else would notice. I actually feel like laughing my head off. I think she can sense it.

She shakes her head, still watching me

"you never change do you"

"pardon?"

"you know what I'm talking about"

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This is dreadful - how to deal with this?

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cafe situations - smiling at friendly baristas interpreted as I like them better than her. "You never smile at me like that" is the accusation.

I tackled her recently asking why she looks at hot women when we are out driving.

"checking out the competition" she says "because you like them and you dont like me"

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How can I deal with these scenarios?

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[Gumiho]

still laughing while writing... .
I usually go the "nonsense, you're prettier" one if she makes any remarks, or just completely ignore it and carry on.

I wonder how others deal with this too

[Tattered Heart]

My H throws out these little comments here and there. I do not take the bait with them and instead just validate him and move on. If I make a bigger deal out of it than it really is, then it becomes a VERY big deal.

Chances are she sees a pretty woman and she immediately begins to feel unworthy and perhaps unattractive. In her mind she thinks something like, "That woman is prettier than me. Why would my partner want to be with me?" So instead of acknowledging the feelings of insecurity and perceived rejection, she lashes out at you instead.

The first thing that might help is to try to her to actually describe what she is feeling, instead of just making subtle hints to it. So when she says, "You know what I"m talking about" maybe ask her a question to flush it out. ONe that seems to be working VERY well for me is, "I want to understand what you are talking about. What specifically did I do?" Then validate whatever feeling comes through in the offense (or often in my H case, he will see that I really didn't do anything wrong and move on.)

What are some things you think your wife may be feeling when she makes these comments? What ares some of the emotions you could validate when she says them?

[once removed]

hi Mr. Right,

most people are prone to a tinge of jealousy when they see their partner check out someone else (or think they do, in this case). of course where BPD traits are involved, its a bit more loaded - that tinge of jealousy becomes a fact, and a signal of abandonment, and... .you get the idea.

this was perhaps the area of my relationship i struggled with the most. id get triggered and push back incredibly hard, even threaten breakups, etc. it sounds like you didnt make things worse. thats good.

What are some things you think your wife may be feeling when she makes these comments? What ares some of the emotions you could validate when she says them?

this is really important. to quote another member here, its an emotion seeking a reason. if you can get to that emotion (low self esteem may fuel it as TH suggested) you may be able to defuse it.

have you read our workshop here on dealing with a jealous partner? lots of good tips: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0

[HelenaHandbasket]

First, as a wife whose husband is also very respectful about this (I've never "caught" him looking in 15 years of marriage, bless him), thank you for thinking about this and taking pains to spare your wife the pang of jealousy most of us get when we think our partner fancies someone else. This HURTS (my ex used to look at other women very openly and make comments, and it was awful for me).

I agree with the other commenters that your wife feels insecure--possibly in general and possibly about your interest in her specifically (this doesn't necessarily mean you've done anything to warrant this). So she wants to let you know you're not "fooling" her, she knows you're looking, etc. It's that classic self-destructive BPD thing of wanting to strike out before your partner can strike at you.

I don't know that there is anything you can do in the short term to make her feel better, but long term you could work on building her up in lots of little ways. Paying her compliments, etc. But if I remember your story correctly, you and your wife have a very tough relationship right now so I realize this is easier said than done.

[MrRight]

First, as a wife whose husband is also very respectful about this (I've never "caught" him looking in 15 years of marriage, bless him), thank you for thinking about this and taking pains to spare your wife the pang of jealousy most of us get when we think our partner fancies someone else. This HURTS (my ex used to look at other women very openly and make comments, and it was awful for me).

I agree with the other commenters that your wife feels insecure--possibly in general and possibly about your interest in her specifically (this doesn't necessarily mean you've done anything to warrant this). So she wants to let you know you're not "fooling" her, she knows you're looking, etc. It's that classic self-destructive BPD thing of wanting to strike out before your partner can strike at you.

I don't know that there is anything you can do in the short term to make her feel better, but long term you could work on building her up in lots of little ways. Paying her compliments, etc. But if I remember your story correctly, you and your wife have a very tough relationship right now so I realize this is easier said than done.

I must admit what with having my life run by her and effectively being a prisoner in my own house - her insecurity on this issue is not that big a priority for me - my biggest priority is minimising the misery she is inflicting on me and S14.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Yeah, I don't blame you really.  That's why I added that bit at the end.  When I started writing the response I didn't remember the rest of your story--then I looked at your username again and remembered the backstory.  I know you've said you're sort of in a holding pattern until your son is old enough for university.

My brother (whose wife has BPD) has confided in me how hard it is to feel a desire for intimacy when your partner is constantly verbally abusing you. And his situation isn't quite as severe as yours. I can only imagine how you feel--I'm sure it's very hard to feel motivated to build up the person who you feel is constantly tearing you down. 

Something to think about, though--even if you're just results-oriented about it, building her up in small ways might spare you the irritation and unpleasantness of more scenes like the one you described.

[once removed]

I must admit what with having my life run by her and effectively being a prisoner in my own house - her insecurity on this issue is not that big a priority for me - my biggest priority is minimising the misery she is inflicting on me and S14.

Hi MrRight,

im new to your story. can you give me a rundown on the first part - how your life is being run by her and making you a prisoner in your own house?

i ask because while this insecurity itself may not be the most pressing issue, i suspect its all big picture stuff. you dont want to run around patching holes.

[MrRight]

Yeah, I don't blame you really.  That's why I added that bit at the end.  When I started writing the response I didn't remember the rest of your story--then I looked at your username again and remembered the backstory.  I know you've said you're sort of in a holding pattern until your son is old enough for university.

My brother (whose wife has BPD) has confided in me how hard it is to feel a desire for intimacy when your partner is constantly verbally abusing you. And his situation isn't quite as severe as yours. I can only imagine how you feel--I'm sure it's very hard to feel motivated to build up the person who you feel is constantly tearing you down. 

Something to think about, though--even if you're just results-oriented about it, building her up in small ways might spare you the irritation and unpleasantness of more scenes like the one you described.

That's the issue really. I know she likes my physical attention when it happens (rarely now - only when I start despairing) - so I cant understand how she can spend a morning abusing me  - and then five minutes later put on a hat and start flirting absurdly fishing for attention - it makes no sense to me.
And yes I do look at and desire other women under these circumstances - I would be a fool not to.

[HelenaHandbasket]

My brother's BPD wife does the same thing. She'll reject his advances for days and be horrible to him, then get furious with him for "never being affectionate" with her. It just doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. He feels constantly off balance and unsure about whether/when to show her affection, and he feels less and less motivated to do so anyway given the way she treats him.

[MrRight]

My brother's BPD wife does the same thing. She'll reject his advances for days and be horrible to him, then get furious with him for "never being affectionate" with her. It just doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. He feels constantly off balance and unsure about whether/when to show her affection, and he feels less and less motivated to do so anyway given the way she treats him.

then why does he stay? children?

[HelenaHandbasket]

Oh boy. Good question--complicated answer. The short version is, they have a young son. The longer version is that he has codependent tendencies and finds it very hard to get out of bad relationships (he was with his terrible, terrible ex for almost a decade). And he does love her. When their relationship is good it's very good. The really big problems only started fairly recently (about a year ago in a five year r/s).

This is a terribly personal question, and I apologize if it's out of line for me to ask, but--do you still love your wife? I know you guys are really struggling based on your other posts.

[MrRight]

Oh boy. Good question--complicated answer. The short version is, they have a young son. The longer version is that he has codependent tendencies and finds it very hard to get out of bad relationships (he was with his terrible, terrible ex for almost a decade). And he does love her. When their relationship is good it's very good. The really big problems only started fairly recently (about a year ago in a five year r/s).

This is a terribly personal question, and I apologize if it's out of line for me to ask, but--do you still love your wife? I know you guys are really struggling based on your other posts.

well you never know for sure the truth behind someone else's situation - even a close relative. If he truly loves her - at least he has that.

My story is so appalling I find it shameful to relate. In brief though I went to russia in 2000 to teach english and met someone by sheer chance - someone who i was not attracted to but was a good friend to me. After a while I realised she was in love with me and had become utterly dependent on my attention and presence. I stupidly decided to give her a brief relationship and when I tried to end it shortly after she became unbalanced and suicidal. I was in my 30s - should have packed my bags and got out of the country - but I allowed myself to be manipulated by these threats - fearing she really would do it. Even more stupid - I brought her back to the UK - my family all liked her and encouraged me to marry her - of course I never told them the truth. I dont know how it happened that I actually married this person - I think I thought it was a joke that would some how resolve itself without any action on my part. I was planning to take her back to Russia for a holiday and leave her there - but - she got pregnant - and that fact confirmed my fate. After the child was born I began to see the full horror of the person I had married and with a child born the impossibility of moving on. I have had to shelve all my dreams and desires during this time - watching myself grow older. I only recently posted on another forum about issues with her and was informed it was most likely BPD. Well - that's the story.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Oh wow. That is a tough situation. We make some dumb decisions when we're young, so don't beat yourself up too much. It sounds like you were a victim of your own inertia--a very common ailment and one that has bitten me in the arse a few times myself. And from what I've learned of BPD, it can be hard to resist when a person with this disorder turns the full force of that idolization on you (not to mention the other side of the coin, with threats of suicide, etc.--no one wants that on their conscience). My brother sure couldn't resist his wife's charms in the beginning--she made him feel like the most spectacular man on the planet at first. Which makes it all the more confusing when she paints him black and treats him like pond scum.

Anyway, I feel for you--I've actually found myself thinking a lot about your story, partly out of empathy and partly out of fear that this will be my brother in a few years' time.

I truly understand your position with your son, but it might be worth considering that if you documented some of her behavior (cell phone camera?), a divorce court might grant you custody. 

At any rate, I hope it helps some to know that you're not the only person in this situation and there are people out there rooting for you.  As tough as I'm sure it is, try to find little ways to take care of yourself in the midst of all this. Even if you have to do it while she's sleeping, take some time to pursue something that makes you feel good about yourself. A hobby, something you like reading or writing about, etc. You most likely won't be in this situation forever, and you need to maintain your identity in the meantime. 

[MrRight]

Oh wow. That is a tough situation. We make some dumb decisions when we're young, so don't beat yourself up too much. It sounds like you were a victim of your own inertia--a very common ailment and one that has bitten me in the arse a few times myself. And from what I've learned of BPD, it can be hard to resist when a person with this disorder turns the full force of that idolization on you (not to mention the other side of the coin, with threats of suicide, etc.--no one wants that on their conscience). My brother sure couldn't resist his wife's charms in the beginning--she made him feel like the most spectacular man on the planet at first. Which makes it all the more confusing when she paints him black and treats him like pond scum.

Anyway, I feel for you--I've actually found myself thinking a lot about your story, partly out of empathy and partly out of fear that this will be my brother in a few years' time.

I truly understand your position with your son, but it might be worth considering that if you documented some of her behavior (cell phone camera?), a divorce court might grant you custody. 

At any rate, I hope it helps some to know that you're not the only person in this situation and there are people out there rooting for you.  As tough as I'm sure it is, try to find little ways to take care of yourself in the midst of all this. Even if you have to do it while she's sleeping, take some time to pursue something that makes you feel good about yourself. A hobby, something you like reading or writing about, etc. You most likely won't be in this situation forever, and you need to maintain your identity in the meantime. 

Thanks for the validation!

It didnt happen when I was young though - I was 37! Now I am near 53. My plan was to get married around 40 - having ripened and chosen wisely - my life was going to be bliss itself. What a joke that has proven to be. That was plan A - plan B - having screwed up nearly 2 decades of my life - is to get my son to the end of his school education, into university - and then manouvre myself out and try to find some way of recovering from this mess in order to live out my years as I would want to spend them.
I am terribly in debt - have the mortgage to pay etc and she doesnt earn a penny. Financially my best option would be to sell the house and settle the debt - and pass on the balance to the two of them. I suspect though that once I am clear - I will go on paying out for years to come. There is 12 years left on the mortgage.
It's not easy doing my own thing as she is with me all the time, more or less. She wont tolerate me listening to music, and I only have 5 minutes to read before bedtime.

[HelenaHandbasket]

It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation, and I know I don't live with you and I can't possibly know what it's like--but in the end, you are the architect of your own life. That's true for all of us; we're the only ones who can make changes and we're the only ones who can set and assert our own boundaries. That's not to say it's easy to do. It clearly isn't in your case, and I understand that the son complicates matters (as does the financial situation). I just wouldn't want you to stay in a terrible situation because of inertia, since it seems that inertia may have played a role in creating the situation in the first place. Sometimes none of the choices are ideal, and sometimes solving one set of problems will create a different set. But we do always have choices, and sometimes the new set of problems is preferable to the old. This person can make your life difficult, but she's not in charge of you and she can't force you to do anything.

I can hear you saying I can't possibly know what you're going through, and you're absolutely right. But I was in an abusive relationship for five years when I was younger (with a psychopathic narcissist who used me as a scapegoat for all his problems). And I remember feeling at one point like there was NO way out. When friends and family would suggest solutions to the problem I would always shoot them down and explain why this wouldn't work or that wouldn't work. At the time I really did believe I was stuck. The tipping point finally came when the psychological abuse he'd heaped on me for years turned (very) physical, and I realized that if I stayed I might actually die. At that point the stakes became high enough for me that I just pulled the pin on the grenade and got out of there. It did create a new set of problems, and I went through a tough time for a while. We were living together and we shared an apartment, finances, furniture and other possessions, a much-loved pet, and most of our friends (some of whom I lost forever, some because they were afraid to cross him and some because in typical psychopath fashion he was very charming and manipulative and he convinced them I was at fault). It was hard going for a while. But I have never regretted getting out and getting my self back from him. Getting my power back.  It was worth the struggle, a hundred times over.

I understand that you can't just think of yourself in this situation, that you have a son and that's a huge complicating factor. I get that. But I believe with all my heart that every problem has a solution. It doesn't mean that it's going to be smooth sailing and there won't be any fallout. But you do not have to stay in a situation where you feel you've lost yourself. And even if you choose to stay for the time being, you certainly don't have to allow her to control you to this extent. It might mean it gets worse before it gets better, but I sincerely hope you can get some help asserting some boundaries with this woman. I believe in the idea that we teach people how to treat us, and it's crucial to teach her that she can't treat you (or her son) in this way.

As I type this I feel a sinking feeling that I'm coming across like a jerk who just doesn't get it. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience in any way, I hope you realize that. I just want better for you and your son, because you seem like a nice and intelligent person who feels lost, and you don't deserve that. I have to believe there are avenues to at least improve the situation somewhat. Have you spoken to a therapist, perhaps one trained in personality disorders? My brother has one of these, and despite his initial resistance to the idea of seeing a therapist, she's been very helpful in teaching my brother some strategies to deal with his wife's behavior. When my brother first started using these, things got worse for a while but now the tools are working, at least to an extent. The conflicts have become fewer and less severe.

I hope you can rally from this. In reading your posts I get the sense that you feel totally defeated and have given up on finding solutions. I hope that's not the case. I remember from my own abusive relationship that it can be very isolating, and we can forget what's normal. We can forget that we have the power to make changes in our own life. But we do have that power.

[MrRight]

It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation, and I know I don't live with you and I can't possibly know what it's like--but in the end, you are the architect of your own life. That's true for all of us; we're the only ones who can make changes and we're the only ones who can set and assert our own boundaries. That's not to say it's easy to do. It clearly isn't in your case, and I understand that the son complicates matters (as does the financial situation). I just wouldn't want you to stay in a terrible situation because of inertia, since it seems that inertia may have played a role in creating the situation in the first place. Sometimes none of the choices are ideal, and sometimes solving one set of problems will create a different set. But we do always have choices, and sometimes the new set of problems is preferable to the old. This person can make your life difficult, but she's not in charge of you and she can't force you to do anything.

I can hear you saying I can't possibly know what you're going through, and you're absolutely right. But I was in an abusive relationship for five years when I was younger (with a psychopathic narcissist who used me as a scapegoat for all his problems). And I remember feeling at one point like there was NO way out. When friends and family would suggest solutions to the problem I would always shoot them down and explain why this wouldn't work or that wouldn't work. At the time I really did believe I was stuck. The tipping point finally came when the psychological abuse he'd heaped on me for years turned (very) physical, and I realized that if I stayed I might actually die. At that point the stakes became high enough for me that I just pulled the pin on the grenade and got out of there. It did create a new set of problems, and I went through a tough time for a while. We were living together and we shared an apartment, finances, furniture and other possessions, a much-loved pet, and most of our friends (some of whom I lost forever, some because they were afraid to cross him and some because in typical psychopath fashion he was very charming and manipulative and he convinced them I was at fault). It was hard going for a while. But I have never regretted getting out and getting my self back from him. Getting my power back.  It was worth the struggle, a hundred times over.

I understand that you can't just think of yourself in this situation, that you have a son and that's a huge complicating factor. I get that. But I believe with all my heart that every problem has a solution. It doesn't mean that it's going to be smooth sailing and there won't be any fallout. But you do not have to stay in a situation where you feel you've lost yourself. And even if you choose to stay for the time being, you certainly don't have to allow her to control you to this extent. It might mean it gets worse before it gets better, but I sincerely hope you can get some help asserting some boundaries with this woman. I believe in the idea that we teach people how to treat us, and it's crucial to teach her that she can't treat you (or her son) in this way.

As I type this I feel a sinking feeling that I'm coming across like a jerk who just doesn't get it. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience in any way, I hope you realize that. I just want better for you and your son, because you seem like a nice and intelligent person who feels lost, and you don't deserve that. I have to believe there are avenues to at least improve the situation somewhat. Have you spoken to a therapist, perhaps one trained in personality disorders? My brother has one of these, and despite his initial resistance to the idea of seeing a therapist, she's been very helpful in teaching my brother some strategies to deal with his wife's behavior. When my brother first started using these, things got worse for a while but now the tools are working, at least to an extent. The conflicts have become fewer and less severe.

I hope you can rally from this. In reading your posts I get the sense that you feel totally defeated and have given up on finding solutions. I hope that's not the case. I remember from my own abusive relationship that it can be very isolating, and we can forget what's normal. We can forget that we have the power to make changes in our own life. But we do have that power.

She always says it's me with the problem. I probably wouldn't be on this board if she was prepared to get treatment.
I personally know a psychotherapist - maybe I should email him and ask if he knows anything about BPD.

[pearlsw]

"My brother (whose wife has BPD) has confided in me how hard it is to feel a desire for intimacy when your partner is constantly verbally abusing you. And his situation isn't quite as severe as yours. I can only imagine how you feel--I'm sure it's very hard to feel motivated to build up the person who you feel is constantly tearing you down. "

I can relate to this so much and I don't even get the constant put downs. It takes a long time (if ever) to recover desire after horrific insults that are so off the charts and cutting... .and then if I am not as interested in affection later... .then another round of drama because "I must be with someone else if I do not want him every single he wants me." Sigh.

[pearlsw]

Wow. HelenaHandbasket, Your long note here is something I will save and reread time and time again... .Especially when I feel helpless, trapped, and there is no way out. I somehow relate to your phrasing of this more than anything I've ever heard from any friend/crisis counselor - most people tell you to leave and are shocked I find when I try to them a fraction of what I endure. I am trying to stay in, but I want to be ready for the day when I have more resources and can perhaps move on. Thank you for this thoughtful reply.

[Herodias]

I used to handle this stuff in a weird way with my ex. It is them wanting attention,  by giving you a hard time. She finds the person attractive, so assumes you do. I would put it back on her... .Not sure if it would help, but maybe tell her you think she is attracted to the person, because you are not. Let her know she is the only one for you. Maybe making a joke or making light of it may help instead of a big debate. My ex used to point out a thin woman running along the road and tell me how disgustingly fat she was... .I am way bigger than her. I felt like it was his indirect way of making me feel bad. Their minds work differently, so don't try and make sense of it. Learn how to handle it in a different way since the current way is not working. You won't be able to win... .I think she is fishing for compliments personally.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Mr. Right--yes, I'd definitely talk to a therapist. It seems clear that your wife doesn't want to get help, but that doesn't mean you can't.  A good therapist--one who has experience with personality disorders--can give *you* some strategies for dealing with your wife's behavior. It has helped my brother, for sure (his wife is also not seeking treatment for her BPD). And at a bare minimum, it might feel good to talk about it. Get it off your chest on a regular basis so you feel a little less burdened.

pearlsw--I'm glad my post helped you!  These are tough situations and it can take time to work your way out. It's so important to keep hold of who you are and do everything you can to avoid losing yourself in the other person. Hang in there.