Sometimes I feel like I'm the one with a PD

[5xFive]

Am I crazy? Manipulative? Psycho? Controlling? Selfish? Every bad name you can think of?
I've been to therapy, my T has said that I am one of the most selfless, thoughtful, kindest people she has ever met! My friends tell me that I'm too nice. My boss tells me that he is impressed at how well I can keep my cool with irate, scared patients and drama-filled assistants and hygienists.
Am I only my true self at home with my uBPDh? Why does he hate me so much? Why is he always trying to leave me and then coming back? What is wrong with me? Am I this horrible person that he thinks I am? How do I know who to believe, what to believe?
Do I suffer from a PD? He says I am a psychopath, and a sociopath, and bipolar.
How do I know if this is true or false and if it is true, why wouldn't my therapist tell me? Does anyone else ever feel this way? I wish I was confident in my own skin.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Monucka,

i can understand how difficult it can be to separate whats true and not true, in these relationships, because our partners tend to be highly emotionally charged, and when they are, distorted thinking can rule the day.

it takes a lot of emotional resilience and ability to depersonalize what can be so hurtful, in these relationships, and to do it all with strong boundaries.

have you worked through the lessons and tools directly to the right of the board? you can find a lot of information about his behaviors (push/pull behavior is very common) and how to depersonalize them.

i highly recommend starting with lesson one (rereading it if you have read it), on surviving confrontation and disrespect: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287068.msg12704923#msg12704923

sometimes when our partners become verbally abusive, we have to take steps to remove ourselves from that dynamic (boundaries).

when hes throwing this stuff out there (youre a psychopath, etc) how do you respond?

[5xFive]

Thank you once removed.
I will re-read the post. I have been working through the lessons but I am still so new to it all that none of it comes naturally to me. I hope it will someday.

I respond with either silence, or with the childish "I am not!" Depending on how many times it's been said, honestly.
Once or twice, I have asked him why my therapist wouldn't have diagnosed me that way if it were true. He said I must be lying to her... .so that didn't help.

[once removed]

im wondering, what leads to these blowups? are they arguments that escalate, or does he just start there?

you can only say "i am not" so many times. its not your responsibility to convince him youre not a psychopath.

you might try, when things escalate to that point, taking a time out.

[forlorn]

Hi, Monucka!  I wish I had words of wisdom, but I'm afraid you'll have to settle for a simple statement saying that this happens to me, too.  I find it interesting that pretty much everyone I know tells me different, but my pwBPD sees me as a selfish, uncompassionate, mean lowlife.  I'm not good at holding on to my own perception of myself when this is happening, and it's pretty devastating.  But when it's quiet, and I'm not in the middle of the storm, I try to be impartial and look at who I am.  And, really, I do fail, but I'm basically a good person.  I think. I hope.  I'm not very good at telling myself that I'm amazing.  But I try very hard to treat people well.  I truly want to contribute to happiness in the world. Guessing you do, too. Isn't that the best we can do?

[MrRight]

I've been called a violent psychopath, worst father and husband in the world etc.

anyone would thinking I was a drunk gambling whoremongering drug addict - when all I do is work for the family - I only have 5 minutes to myself each day for reading before bed.

 

[5xFive]

Thank you all. It helps to know I'm not the only one.

Forlorn, yes, I think you explained it better than I was able. I try to work on myself everyday and be good to the people around me. The only time I really feel GOOD is when I'm doing for others, or making their day a little brighter. This includes my pwBPD. I don't understand why the one person that I want to SEE me thinks that I'm this horrible person and it makes me feel really bad about myself.

MrRight, exactly! There are some days where I can't even go to the bathroom alone and all I want to do is brush my teeth (which always makes me feel better ). I usually only get a few mins alone in the early morning, 4:30am when everyone is asleep. But only if the baby doesn't wake up during that time.

Once removed, most of the time it's arguments that escalate, but they escalate so hard and fast that I don't know how or why we got there. It feels like he just starts there. Time outs are hard for me, well for him. He follows me around and yells at me. I haven't managed to get out of the FOG enough to actually leave the house with the kids bc I BELIEVE what he's saying about me and I don't want him to feel abandoned. I am not very good at setting boundaries... .

[Pedro]

Hello Monucka.

I don't have any words of advice to give you but I do understand where you are coming from & how you feel.  My ex gfBPD accused me of not loving her, accused me of affairs, putting other people first before her "us" which included our 4 cats, which was "our family unit" which wasn't true. Called me selfish, ignorant rude, & uncaring which I am not.

Take care.

[forlorn]

Once removed, most of the time it's arguments that escalate, but they escalate so hard and fast that I don't know how or why we got there. It feels like he just starts there. Time outs are hard for me, well for him. He follows me around and yells at me. I haven't managed to get out of the FOG enough to actually leave the house with the kids bc I BELIEVE what he's saying about me and I don't want him to feel abandoned. I am not very good at setting boundaries... .

Hi, again!  I totally relate to your experience of the arguments that seem to start out at  "10" on the scale of 1-10.  And also the pwBPD following you around yelling.  It really sucks to be in that position. I would suggest to you that you prioritize removing yourself from the environment.  You can make it very clear that you are leaving because the argument has become unhealthy, and you WILL return.  You are not responsible for whether or not he feels abandoned. If you've communicated clearly that you're coming home once you cool down, it's up to him to accept that or not.  But it does a world of good to go somewhere else and allow yourself to find center.  It's very easy to start believing that what's being said about you is true when the storm is whirling all around you and you start to lose touch with yourself.  But in a few very short paragraphs you've already identified yourself as someone who cares very deeply about other people - and one who tries very hard to bring happiness to others.  That's the reality you need to try to hold on to.

I recently read some very sage advice from Formflier.  I actually printed it out and put it by my computer at work so I can read it over and over again.  I am passing it on to you and I hope you find it helpful:
"It's bassackwards thinking that seems to have an assumption there is a certain amount of abuse/disrespect that you should accept or take before leaving." 
"Try on this new value statement:
I will leave a conversation after the first instance of disrespect that is not understood and cared for properly (this value statement is for you... .you would communicate this to your pwBPD in another way)"
"This would look like this.  You are talking and he overtalks you... .  In a neutral and firm voice let him know you weren't finished and would like to continue speaking.

If he allows it... proceed and never mention it again.  If he further disrespects... leave... .

you could say ... .This conversation is upsetting me, I'm going to take a time out.  I'll check back in with you in 10 minutes  (this is about you... .not him... you are the person that matters here... .)"

I am repeating the statement above (in my own words) out loud to myself as often as possible, when I am by myself, so that when it comes time to use it, I can say it calmly and naturally.  And yesterday, before I got out of bed, I laid quietly with my eyes closed and reviewed my boundaries. Particularly, what is it that I will not accept as treatment of me in an argument.  I played the scenarios in my mind and made a commitment to myself to use my new exit strategy if needed.  I didn't have to use it, but it gave me a new level of confidence during the day that seemed to lift a bit of the worry I usually carry in the day.

Hoping this helps!

[5xFive]

Thank you forlorn.

It's funny, it seems so obvious doesn't it? We wouldn't accept the behavior from our co-workers and certainly not from random people that we meet when we are out and about. But when it comes from our loved ones, we feel like we must accept it, at least I do. But you and formflier are so right!

Pedro, thank you for your response. It helps to hear others experiences and stories. I would never wish suffering on another person but when I'm accused of being this terrible person, I believe it! It makes me feel better that I'm not the only person experiencing this, that I am not this horrible person he says I am when things get bad.

[Anne100]

Hi Monucka
I'm a bit like you - usually known for my calmness and skills dealing with people. My mother in law even thinks I'm a saint for what I'm dealing with.
But somehow I turn into the worst version of myself when I'm with my potentially BP partner. His irrationality and swings etc just make me mad. When I calm down, I know it's not his fault. But we cycle through the same arguments on repeat. I can handle them the first few times, but then my own emotionality etc gets worse and I know I get impatient, frustrated and angry. I often end up saying unhelpful things that, particularly with his BP traits, just make the whole situation so much worse. I end up feeling like I'm the one with BPD!

[forlorn]

But we cycle through the same arguments on repeat. I can handle them the first few times, but then my own emotionality etc gets worse and I know I get impatient, frustrated and angry.

Wow! I swear to God that it's like you all are in my living room watching my life!  I get so tired of the constant battles over the same things, over and over and over and over and over again. And after a few go-rounds, it feels like a bruise that you keep smashing in exactly the same place. So raw!  And then you don't even really need to hit it as hard because it still hurts from the last time you did it.

[pearlsw]

I hear ya! I thought I was a nice person to be in a relationship with before this one started. It is hard. I think something is resolved, but it never quite is. Anything goes in a disagreement on his side of things. The kitchen sink gets brought back out and has been tossed at me so many times so to speak. This takes a big toll on your self-esteem and, what's even harder, your sense of reality. I am called a lot of bad things in the dark phases, and scared out of my mind every time my world comes to an end via his words.  I thought I would never tolerate such a thing, and I don't really, but... .It is literally a black and white world I live in.

I am loved or hated, nothing in between. Depersonalizing helps a lot, but it is a learned skill. I find the way Buddhism trains you to see your thoughts as just thoughts helps me deal with the pain of this kind of life, with so much emotional abuse. It also helps that the people here just recognize that this is emotional abuse! No one in my life believes this (from his family who are the only ones around) and of course if you mention "abuse" they all tell you to run. I am too ashamed (and want my privacy) to tell my family though I may not be able to keep it quiet forever. I am so grateful for the people here who get the complexity of all this and simply understand. Thank you all! Wishing you all some peace!

[forlorn]

So here's something I wonder about... .why is it that they can control how they treat you in front of other people, and they save the abusive behaviors for when you're alone?  In my mind, if you're hiding something like that, it's because you know it's wrong. And if you know you're doing something wrong, why would you keep doing it? If I hear from my relatives one more time how lucky I am for having such a delightful partner, I might just explode.  I think I'm frustrated today.

[MrRight]

So here's something I wonder about... .why is it that they can control how they treat you in front of other people, and they save the abusive behaviors for when you're alone?  In my mind, if you're hiding something like that, it's because you know it's wrong. And if you know you're doing something wrong, why would you keep doing it? If I hear from my relatives one more time how lucky I am for having such a delightful partner, I might just explode.  I think I'm frustrated today.

My wife would say it's best to keep family business behind closed doors. convenient eh

but over 17 years - she has slipped up now and then.

[Anne100]

And after a few go-rounds, it feels like a bruise that you keep smashing in exactly the same place. So raw!  And then you don't even really need to hit it as hard because it still hurts from the last time you did it.

That's exactly it. I've been trying to explain to my partner that it's like "the straw that broke the camel's back" - the last trigger of a major argument may not be major in itself but the accumulation of small issues all builds up until I can't take any more. But your bruise analogy explains it so much better.

I'm new to the group, but already these conversations are helping so much! Sharing similar experiences are helping me realise I'm not alone and I'm not going crazy! Thanks everyone who's replied!

[AtWitsEnd_UK]

Hi Monucka,

This sounds so familiar. I am the selfish one, I abuse her, I cause her insecurities, I am the raging one, I am uncaring, not truly loving her, lying to her, constantly trying to cheat on her, comparing her to other women, controlling her, embarrassing her, trying to make her look stupid, neglecting her, putting my friends first and the already extensive list go on ad infinitum.

I must be the weirdest nutcase under the sun.

At least to her when she has her rages or is on break up mode. Yes, I am human and we all have flaws. Like in your circumstances, my friends tell me I am too nice, very good at getting along with (almost) anyone and caring and giving too much for my own good. I always try to consider her point of view, even if it does not make any sense to me.

My problem is that before I read about BPD here, I tried to reason with her, building up a logical argument. In response I got yelled at and thrown random thoughts and the kitchen sink at me.The  rational mind tries to see the connection between these random bits of anecdotes what I or other people said or did in her past and I gave up after a while . I didn't know how to handle it. On two occasions, I lost my cool and raised my voice. I just couldn't deal with that irrational torrent of baseless accusations and disjointed rantings any longer. Since then I am also the shouter. I forgot to mention that on my list.

I have changed my style of conversation since I read up some techniques on dealing with BPD outbursts. But the allegations of me being the one stay. Truth is very distorted.

To give you an example. My uBPDgf broke up with me this week, but claims I am the one who left. What's factually true or untrue seems irrelevant.

I believe that my girlfriend is suspicious about normal social interactions. It is difficult for them to truly trust. So, if you get along well with many people, it may be a way of trying to bring you down. In a strange way, that may make BPDs feel better about themselves as, in their view, you are now to blame.

I have episodes of self-doubt too. I started to see if she has valid points with her portrayal of me. But when I asked friends who know me in general and also what I had done for her, they assured me I am anything but what she claims. Most of them actually told me that they would have given her the boot a long time ago.

And still I love her and hope to reconcile. Because when times are good, she is lovely and has a giant heart and everything seems wonderful and just perfect, as long as I know what to avoid and how to react.

"This would look like this.  You are talking and he overtalks you... .  In a neutral and firm voice let him know you weren't finished and would like to continue speaking.

If he allows it... proceed and never mention it again.  If he further disrespects... leave... .

you could say ... .This conversation is upsetting me, I'm going to take a time out.  I'll check back in with you in 10 minutes  (this is about you... .not him... you are the person that matters here... .)"

Forlon, your advice is great. I have done that many times and it works.

I take a deep breath to collect myself, keep cool but firm and acted just like you describe.
My gf would usually respond "yes sure, leave me here alone". I would leave and say "See you some other time". Usually when I came back after 10 or 15 minutes, she would smile at me as if nothing happened and I would not try to get back into the conversation. Another day saved.

Monucka, keep your sanity. You know who you are and your friends do too. And you are not the only one who has to live through this. So many responses here with the same issue.

I wish you the best and that you believe in your true self again.
 

[north69]

You've just described my situation almost word for word.


- All reversed on me, I've got all these problems

- She breaks up and I get accused of leaving the family (she actually left first, physically left the building after ordering a taxi)

- All the insults under the sun + physical abuse (albeit weak, she's not waiting with an iron bar) when I argue back and push her too far

- Rationale / Logic does not work. It just enflames the situation

- I'm considered a nice guy, giving, caring etc. I treat people how I want to be treated and try to stick to that. I do have a temper if I'm pushed, if I'm totally honest.

- Deep down my wife is amazing. She's caring, kind, big heart. Everybody outside the house sees this great high functioning socialite. I'm just the punching bag... .oh and me and her mum are to blame as we're the only ones that can take her to that level of anger, it's our fault not hers.

[cc2203]

Once removed, most of the time it's arguments that escalate, but they escalate so hard and fast that I don't know how or why we got there. It feels like he just starts there. Time outs are hard for me, well for him. He follows me around and yells at me. I haven't managed to get out of the FOG enough to actually leave the house with the kids bc I BELIEVE what he's saying about me and I don't want him to feel abandoned. I am not very good at setting boundaries... .

Hello Monucka,

Im going through the same things as you. I often feel I am the one with the problems. I often feel I am the one who needs to be "fixed". I hate myself so much, so often now. Every cry for help I only send to my husband because ive became so codependant I dont see anyone else that can help. I know I have friends. But I dont see that they can help. I dont want their help. I want his. I want him to stop being like this. But thats all he wants from me... to stop being like this.

A difference is that Im the one who time outs are hard for. I cant stop and let the issues go. I cant drop it and separate for some time to calm down. I joined this group because while on a Family Vacation with his parents and sister, my husband left me. Said he isnt coming back to our state at all. Im terrified. I dont know how to be me again with out him. And he makes me feel so bad for that.

I cant stress enough how much I wish I had listened to the warning signs. He told me over and over again how he just needed space. I never listened. I kept pushing. And now I lost what feels like everything.

[5xFive]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I've been reading as you've been posting, but I haven't responded bc I've been working so hard on not jadeing. I feel like that is step one and boundaries are a whole other level. I need to level up a little before I'll be able to set and maintain a boundary.
Not jadeing has been hard. I've done really well. I've worked at not responding when I feel defensive, not trying to justify etc. until today. I took a phone call for work at home. I never take calls at home. My friends and parents,  EVERYONE knows to text, never call, and never EVER text something you don't want him to read.
But i needed to take an important call from a consultant regarding a merger we are doing at work. I still wouldn't have answered except she knows my situation and she called me twice in a row, so I knew it was important. So why did I jade? Because knowing in my head how I never take phone calls, I thought for sure this one time it would be ok. And maybe it would have been except that I was not "mindful of the rest of my family" while I was on the phone and I was talking really loudly. So I apologized when I got off and said that if I need to take another call in the future, I will be more respectful of those around me. Sounds good right? Until I said: but I don't ever take calls at home, this was the first time in about a year that I've done this so I don't understand what the big deal is.  And a-rage we go!

cc2203- it's been a couple of days since you posted, how's it going? I was so sorry for you while reading your post.

I'm sure I will regret my passive aggressive behavior in an hour or two, but for now I am just working to remember that I have to be the emotional leader in this relationship. I have to work every day while he gets to just *whistles* act however he likes. I have to remember that I'm all alone with no one to express myself to, that I have to continue to work to make myself better and then allow him to say stupid sh*t like "we haven't argued in 2 weeks bc I have been working to control my anger". Here's me blowing a raspberry at that!
Anyway, I read success stories and I hope that if I can continue to grow and continue to learn and become a better spouse, a better emotional leader, then maybe someday he will be there for me like I need.
You can tell me- do you think I'm just being naive?

[cc2203]

cc2203- it's been a couple of days since you posted, how's it going? I was so sorry for you while reading your post.
You can tell me- do you think I'm just being naive?

Hey Monucka,

Yeah ... .Things are very confusing right now. He broke up with me last Thursday while he was on a family vacation, and never returned. Left all of our lives in my lap and left me stranded. I was very weak yesterday when speaking to his mother, as I have to only talk to her to get information to and from him since he refuses to talk to me. I decided to start to stand up for my self, and I refused to return his class ring. I wasnt ready to let go of it. I wanted to hold onto that... It meant alot to me. I still do kinda want it. Once I showed her any refusal, she went on a rage and said she was going to start taking the TVs and the Bed, the Couch... ect. Because most of this furniture was in her home, before she gave it to him and we brought it into ours. Her taking these things didnt hurt me, except he had provided a list, and said everything else in our home I could keep. In my mind it hurt because he was okay with me sleeping on the floor, and living in an empty home that i cant afford.

I told one of his friends, and she reached out to him. He almost instantly broke the NC and reached to me. We messaged briefly back and forth. Then I was going to the gym, and he wanted to talk more. He asked if he could call me, I told him he could, just later that night. After I got home from the gym, I messaged him and he called. He called from a different number, than his own. I asked about that and he told me his mom had given him a new phone so that he wouldnt be able to talk to me, and vise versa as neither of us had eachothers numbers and his old phone was powered off and hidden from him by his sister.

He actually came to me... Which was what I wanted so bad,... but i was so scared. I just started being okay with him being gone. as a codependent It is so had to do that... .During the call, he expressed how much he loves me and how worried about me he was. Even went as far to say "I want to come home and be with you so bad, but I cant anymore". At the end of the call, he asked if we could talk again, ofcourse I agreed. I tried not to show him how happy him talking to me made me, but i was estatic. elated.

At the very end of the phone call, he said I love you as he was saying good bye, I BUSTED out uncontrollably crying. Tears of job and sadness at the same exact time. He tried to sooth my pain, "baby,,, baby... dont cry, its okay, I love you so much. Im so sorry I did this to you. Its gonna be okay soon. I promise" he said.

Im terrified of him now. I dont want to expect something he doesnt even know if he wants yet, and I dont want to keep pushing myself further away from him because being alone reallly does suck.

[ozmatoz]

Wow! I swear to God that it's like you all are in my living room watching my life!  I get so tired of the constant battles over the same things, over and over and over and over and over again. And after a few go-rounds, it feels like a bruise that you keep smashing in exactly the same place. So raw!  And then you don't even really need to hit it as hard because it still hurts from the last time you did it.

Same here, the same arguments around and around.  She even acknowledges that we've gone in circles but won't allow me to steer the conversation out of it.  We have the same arguments all the time because it seems like she cannot grasp onto any logical statement I make, thus making me repeat it... .repeat... .repeat... .  And then that makes me the horrible selfish enemy with BPD that just wont leave her alone and has ruined the family.

I struggle to get out of the FOG my W is very good at exploiting small details into huge issues.  This keeps me off balance and make me feel pretty crappy about myself.

Best of luck, you are a good person.

-Oz