Radical acceptance--struggling

[Whoad]

Well I'm almost a month into silent treatment.

I love my PwBPD, more than words can say... I am struggling though with my thoughts and feelings on the issue of the latest episode. 

1. I am being punished. I set the trigger, and she reacted.

2. Her punishment to me is to go to another man-I assume sex is involved...
--- radical acceptance is to take it for face value and let it go. I realize she does not think she reacts, though I believe there is knowledge of right and wrong. I don't want her to use "I have something wrong with me, that's why "
---- What are some discussions for such transgression?
----how do I approach the subject of a STD test upon her return. (Trigger?)

3. The kids-- I am concerned ---about her kids, this will affect them, the confusion of mom is with -----(me) and she left to visit freinds (lie) and now we are living with a guy we don't know and she treats him like she did ----. ( all the smear campaign as well)

 Note: I have been married twice... once when I was way too young... and that ended quickly--( infidelity on her part). Way to immature we both were...

 and then again later in life... the last was not a mistake but in the end we had our own paths to take... she received a child in her next marriage, which was what she wanted, I was not able... neither of the those marriages include any radical acceptance.  When it failed--it was done...

I was mentally healthy then and am now... I do love this woman and her children beyond words. I want them in my life  and I want to be a part of their lives.

I know the disorder, I know sort know of what to expect now. It is what it is. I know I will be flipped from black to white, I hope it is soon.

I know she will seek help, she tried upon her last one... it failed due to the therapist---they wouldn't listen...

Pray for us, pray for them and help give me some experience and advice what has and hasn't worked...

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Radical Acceptance is not just to accept whatever is handed out. You call this a transgression hence you must feel this is not something that is acceptable to you. If you have no boundaries around what you feel is a transgression then you inadvertently validate the invalid and give her the green light to push whatever button she wishes at her whim.

"I have something wrong with me, that's why "

Are you projecting here? Are you not saying "she has something wrong with her, thats why?" Are you not making your excuse her excuse.

Are you not validating your own reasons for not having boundaries?

Radical Acceptance is about not being fazed by things that are going to happen and which you have no control over. Kind of like accepting the landscape, as opposed to just having your role in it dictated by someone else. That is something you do have a say in.

Bottom line is how do you really feel about your partner taking up with someone else? How do you feel about this becoming her go to response ad infinitum. Is that something you want to Accept?


This is a difficult situation to address, but is not difficulty involving Radical Acceptance, it is difficulty in asserting Boundaries.
Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

[Whoad]

 Guess I do see it as a transgression because she would see me cheating is a transgression. So I have not taken it as "the landscape" ... like that I do...

My quote was her talking to me--an excuse... .I think she would use it.

I'm not trying to validate my reasons for not having a boundary... I want this boundary, I have a right to be respected in our relationship. I don't cheat... it has happened to me before, in my 1st marriage.  I had no acceptance--I booted that woman to the curb... why is there a difference... .because I love this woman, and all her issues... I never loved the woman in my 1st marriage. (I was 18) DUMB--

 If there's a boundary to be sent here I don't know what it is? I don't like the running away part of the this. It bothers me the most. I rather her be upset and be  angry and try to deal with her issues here at least some communication could be had, and at least there would be no financial problems, there would be no hurting somebody else in another state,  and destroying their lives by her actions.

 Her children would also be spared from being dragged around from one side of the country to another meeting a new man in their lives and having to deal with all that.

The children need to set the boundary as well, do they not that, they will not tolerate being taken from their home and being subjected to other strange man other strange places because her mother is upset at me--it's not fair to them and they can and  will refuse to go.

Thoughts... ?

[onelittleladybug]

Hi Whoad

Im sorry that happened to you. I can imagine it being a painful thing to go through  I understand you are concerned about the children. It is important that you take care of yourself though.

Radical acceptance is about the mental disorder. Try thinking about it in terms of the forest for the trees. We can completely (radically) accept the implications of our loved ones having a disorder and that there isnt anything we can do to change them. Thats the whole picture, the forest. Then some individual behavior (such as cheating) violates our boundaries. Those boundaries are about protecting and taking care of ourselves. Setting boundaries is important, thats for you. How you enforce your boundaries is also up to you but the article that Waverider linked to talks about the importance of basing your boundaries on your values.

If you think about it in those terms can you prioritize what needs to happen next? Do you think you can provide the security you want to give to the children and look after yourself at the same time?

[waverider]

The hard thing about boundaries is there needs to be enforcement actions in place that are actionable, and willing to be actioned, by the person with the boundary which the "transgressor" has no control over. This is what separates them from "demands" which require someone else to change.

Her children can't really have boundaries as they have no power to enforce them. Neither do you have the authority to enforce boundaries on their behalf. This is what makes children so vulnerable.

pwBPD are by nature boundary pushers. As long as a partner gives the impression they will hang in there at all costs, it becomes extremely difficult to enforce boundaries as the pwBPd knows they can keep shifting the goal posts. It really is an extreme game of brinkmanship a lot of the time.

Always keep in mind you cannot make anyone else do anything, you only have control over what you do. This will have an impact on the environment, which may have an influence on the choices others make. You cant make anyone else do anything, nor do you have the right.

Often relying on the ingrained empathy of a pwBPD is like teaching a duck to bark, it's not going to happened and drive you nuts trying. Someone with low empathy will do what they perceive meets their immediate needs. Which is fine as long as they coincide with the needs of others.

So your bottom line boundary relies on whether the pwBPD percieves they"need" you or not. If they take it for granted that you will be there then they never question that need, so there is no bottomline for them

[Whoad]

So your bottom line boundary relies on whether the pwBPD percieves they"need" you or not. If they take it for granted that you will be there then they never question that need, so there is no bottomline for them

Well that is my dilemma, at this juncture I have not reacted other than shutting off her phone, and canceling her insurance. I do not respond to her poke and jabs,on Facebook, I don't refriend, or follow once she cancels the social media... I don't let it bother me. Though in my own home, I do get upset.but I'm not broadcasting it for her to use against me.

She knows me very well, we are very tight, and think a lot like, my instincts about her actions have been spot on.  But this side of her is nasty and mean. I have told her the last time it can't happen again... I made it clear, I cannot keep doing this as it fiscally impossible... I told her that way before this time.

This is a punishment... I wronged her terribly and deeply in her emotions, (I have no idea how or what) but she is angry... she is cheating on me, I know that... but she does not want to lose me, I'm certain that she is confused as to my actions because if have kept living my life, as I had while she was here.  I have broadcasted my pain, nor my frustrations, nor my anger.

She is stalking my fitness app, and admin pages I run, she looks at my Instagram and uses her monkey to view my page. She has people... I know she does...

I do believe she needs me... .I am safety, security, stability, love, and acceptance.  She lived here for 6 years with no blowups... no outbursts, this is her place.

So what do you mean the bottomline?

I want to know why she runs... that bothers me the most. What is she gaining... but it's about her... always her, and screw him, kids, me... tantrum...

I Don't know what to do, so I will do nothing. No reactions, until she makes 1st contact. Then I have to empathize and work my around any arguments that may come up... I'm just frustrated because I can't do anything but wait... till she decides to open up to charm. 

[waverider]

I do believe she needs me... .I am safety, security, stability, love, and acceptance.  She lived here for 6 years with no blowups... no outbursts, this is her place.

So what do you mean the bottomline?

Bottomline is you dont need her, you want to be with her. pwBPD struggle to differentiate the difference. You need to be clear of the difference yourself. If you cant reach a level of interaction that is satisfying for you then it needs to be crystal clear to both of you that you can, and will walk away with no going back.

Many members report that they struggle to make any progress until they are willing to walk away. It brings about a certain objective clarity, and reduces back pedalling on your values.

Not telling you to walk away, just to be clear where that line lays. It empowers your choices.

[Whoad]

Your correct... I don't need her, and I do want her, and I'm struggling. I told her the last time that this can't happen again. I won't tolerate it.

I was told half truths, and assured it wouldn't happen again. Here I now sit... more enlightened and more educated about what is wrong... I have scoured these boards and read the tools and studied through the workbooks, and workshops.

 I do believe she was misdiagnosed as having anxiety disorder nos with histrionics and narcissistic traits... but after I read what the Dr. wrote about how she would react and act... its more of BPD-minus suicidal ideation...

 I struggle, I drew the line. I want her back, I want her to be in my life. I want her kids in my life.

I canceled and shut off her phone as soon she sent me the "black" text. I then cancel her car insurance, I called her bluff. I was set that I'm done... but I refrained from acting out of spite and anger because I'm not that type.

 When she is like this--She stalks me online , she passive  aggressive posts, she projects her self as being a good mom, but attacks those that disagree with her,   I do not react, to her jabs, passive aggressive posts...

I'm remaining neutral, and I'm not being passive aggressive in my own actions, I'm going on doing my thing, living, exercising, working etc...

This side of her is horrible. Her other side (+) the side I saw for 6 yrs with traits of PD but no reaction to run. I want that back  and  know it is there... but her/ our latest stressors the triggers of her anxiety? Make it all come to head... ?

In all reality we never need anyone, we want them to share our life, be in our life, and is this where you say PD have issue is they believe they need. ? Correct?

I struggle when this drags out, but I have to remember it is a disorder, she has pattern of behaviors, and will return. It always when?  I don't want to make excuses for her, she does enough of her own. I want to see her become the woman I know she really is, that 6 yr woman, whom was loving, supportive, giving, a pure blessing in my life... I can see back behaviors that were odd, but now I know what they are within the PD spectrum... 20/20 hindsight.

I drew my line, and not sure what to do but not wait. I do not want to walk away nor run. I am committed to this relationship.

[waverider]

In all reality we never need anyone, we want them to share our life, be in our life, and is this where you say PD have issue is they believe they need. ? Correct?

 

This is the problem, Their needs are perceptions based on immediacy, and they come and go. If you know the difference between needs and wants, and are able to clearly separate them, you know your needs and maintain them as your baseline, but our wants are fickle they come and go. For  pwBPD who's "needs" are as fickle as the wants would be in others, it causes them to swing their baselines to extremes. Hence they "need" you today, but don't need you tomorrow. Resulting in the endless burning and rebuilding of bridges.

For many partners it is a case of wanting the pwBPD, but we need to maintain our own sanity. Some can do this, but for others the need eventually overrides our wants.

Hopefully by using resources such as this forum together with lots of hard work and patience you may be able to massage a viable compromise. If not you will have a clearer understanding, making it easier to live with whatever choices you make.

If she comes back what will you do to prevent exposure to a repeat episode?

[Whoad]

This is the problem, Their needs are perceptions based on immediacy, and they come and go. If you know the difference between needs and wants, and are able to clearly separate them, you know your needs and maintain them as your baseline, but our wants are fickle they come and go. For  pwBPD who's "needs" are as fickle as the wants would be in others, it causes them to swing their baselines to extremes. Hence they "need" you today, but don't need you tomorrow. Resulting in the endless burning and rebuilding of bridges.

For many partners it is a case of wanting the pwBPD, but we need to maintain our own sanity. Some can do this, but for others the need eventually overrides our wants.

Hopefully by using resources such as this forum together with lots of hard work and patience you may be able to massage a viable compromise. If not you will have a clearer understanding, making it easier to live with whatever choices you make.

If she comes back what will you do to prevent exposure to a repeat episode?

My aunt and I are discussing that... she is hot to trot... there are some lies, and some LGBT hate speech on her Facebook page... my Aunt is of that community...

I told her what I had said to PwBPD the last time. She said it didn't help, I stated no crap...

 we both are in agreement it has to stop, but short of BPDso asking for help after haveing a tragedy... not her own catastrophe ---maybe she will seek help.

We don't how to approach it, other than pointing the possible trouble she places on her children... i.e. Car accident, lost children, etc... .her getting hurt and not being able to help her kids... etc... .

But we are all feeling helpless, Aunts not dealing with her, I'm in  "black" . And as she continues to project her crap, and then settle down etc... in waves it appears? Minute by minute as you say.we wait.

 I think limiting her external stressors from me might help... if she is indeed diagnosed with anxiety disorder Nos... or udBPD ... it's so weird that she has all the symptoms of all ... except suicidal ideation we have never see that, nor is she into self mutilation...  

We are at the whim of the disorder at the moment... your clarity of thought waverider is  impressive and I wish I was as insightful as you are.

[Whoad]

Well, my Aunts - the aunts... have had enough... not with me... but with her. 
She was expecting clothes for the kids for school in the new location. They decided no.  They gave a truthful rationale and in turn received an attack... see "phrases".

They will be calling her father and her other family members and encourage that this is the line drawn... no help, no support, no verbal or mental abuse is to be tolerated period. Whether some or all will follow suit is to be seen, but the Aunts blocked her from all their social media... in turn she drooped one Aunt fro. Instagram... she said she never use it so big deal... they will not call her on her birthday.

 This aunt was one family member on that side that held her accountable but was loving in the best way possible. Never rejected her...

This is a far departure from radical acceptance. This is tired of your crap... as they said they are done...

It's been 31 days of silent treatment. It is what it is.