She has filed for divorce 6 times ( I now see that I responded wrongly to her)

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

She has dropped the previous 5 divorce filings, we are currently separated due to her 6th filing.  She has the symptoms of BPD although undiagnosed.  I am currently seeing a therapist who pinpointed the problem right away although obviously can't diagnose my wife since she hasn't met with her. I have read extensively about the disorder and many comments here which have been a tremendous help.  I realize now that I responded wrongly to her, but I have never experienced this type of behavior before.  Now I know what I did wrong on my part and would love to prove it to her.  I have tried to contact her without any luck.  From past experience, she eventually softens her stance and we get back together.  Should I continue emailing her, they are very nice, productive emails, or quit trying?  I would very much like for our relationship to continue especially since I found this sight to help me understand the situation better.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[amusement park]

She has dropped the previous 5 divorce filings, we are currently separated due to her 6th filing.  She has the symptoms of BPD although undiagnosed.  I am currently seeing a therapist who pinpointed the problem right away although obviously can't diagnose my wife since she hasn't met with her. I have read extensively about the disorder and many comments here which have been a tremendous help.  I realize now that I responded wrongly to her, but I have never experienced this type of behavior before.  Now I know what I did wrong on my part and would love to prove it to her.  I have tried to contact her without any luck.  From past experience, she eventually softens her stance and we get back together.  Should I continue emailing her, they are very nice, productive emails, or quit trying?  I would very much like for our relationship to continue especially since I found this sight to help me understand the situation better.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[pearlsw]

Oh my gosh. That must be so painful. I have been threatened hundreds of times, but an actual filing, that many actual filings... .I am impressed you still have your bearings. I am glad you found this place. I read and read and am never quite sure if he is bipolar or has borderline traits or has both. But, even without a proper diagnosis, which we may never be able to get due to health care costs and his on/off interest in this stuff, be assured that there really is a lot that one person can do to improve the situation just by learning better communication strategies.

Since you want to save things it might be a good idea to keep communicating or at least keep the door open for that. I don't know the details on your past breakups, but if it is accurate that deep down we get pushed away because they are in so much emotional pain, but really also want some sense of connection and security with us... .well, then keep that door open! For now you can fill your time with lots of reading here, and it will help the way you word things.

I had never experienced "this kind of behavior" before either, not to this level, and I agree, it is shocking. It shakes the foundations of your world completely. I hope you hear from her soon and the balance can be restored. Take care!

[amusement park]

I've been on here numerous times and am gaining a wealth of knowledge on my undiagnosed spouse. She has hasty, irrational decisions. Shopping sprees. Telling me we are done, then several months later wanting me back. Unprovoked bursts of anger. She has quit numerous jobs and filed for divorce, then dropped charges 5 times. We are currently separated. I haven't heard from her in a month. I've read success stories and heard advice to get out of the marriage, so not sure which way to go. We have no kids together. I am currently in counseling. Highly doubt she is. She has quit numerous attempts at counseling. I am very tired of this erratic, roller coaster ride. I guess her idea of life is far different than mine. We do have good times, but small, petty issues turn into full blown, awful arguments.
If she would come back into the picture, as she has done before, my stance would be to get qualified counseling, someone qualified in BPD, or we get a divorce. Is my stance reasonable? I won't continue living like this. We need help.

[pearlsw]

I think the decision about whether to stay or go is not always so easy to make as people might think. Many of us tend to be naturally hopeful and assume if we make effort things will work out, eventually. I hope this is the case for you!

She has been gone for a whole month and no word between you and you are married? Oh, that is rough! Does she have any awareness of her issues? Any awareness this is unbalanced?

I think it is fair to have a clear idea of what is acceptable or unacceptable for you and have a plan ready to go for if she comes back and wants to restart. Perhaps be careful not to present it as a threat, just as a simple stated fact. "I have made this decision and this is how I would like to proceed... .Are you able to go along with this or do you have another suggestion?" That allows for some participation for her and a willingness to join onto it like a mutual project you can both agree is healthy, rather than a threat which she might want to resist. Just a thought! I could be off base, but do mean well!

[waverider]

The only thing consistent about BPD is that it never is. This is why the endless recycles as the "feel good" keeps flooding back and wipes out the bad, we then question our previous determined stances. In turn we become inconsistent.

Boundaries are important, but they are not easy as you cannot enforce agreement, or maintain anyone else's compliance. In fact it is hard to maintain them ourselves. Boundaries are about how we respond, as opposed to ultimatums to someone else.

Defining clearly in your own mind what your own values are is a good start.

[amusement park]

My wife is undiagnosed BPD but has symptoms. Can't keep a steady job, we have frequent break up and reconciliations. She filed for divorce recently. She has done this multiple times. This time I suggested waiting a bit but she was persistent on filing right away. I interpret that as avoiding abandonment. Also I'm her third marriage. She claimed she was the victim in the previous two. I now know different. There have been unprovoked shows of rage and anger. There is definitely black and white and splitting. I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just let her get this over with. Is there hope?

[DaddyBear77]

Hi amusement park,

I notice you've been struggling with this particular break up and have posted several details. In each thread, there have been some questions and some insights offered.

Have any of those previous insights been helpful? If so, what was helpful about them? Can we elaborate? If not, what did we miss? Can you offer more details about your situation that might help guide a better response?

I'd also challenge you to read through the lessons on the right hand side panel and see if there is anything in there which can give you hope. I know personally I've found a lot of hope with the understanding that I can change MY role in how a relationship unfolds. Unfortunately, though, no matter how many perfectly crafted notes and voice messages we leave, we can never force another person to change.

I hope this note offers you some guidance. Please respond to this note and I hope that we can find you the help and hope that you need.

~DaddyBear77

[amusement park]

She also takes down our personal pictures when she is upset. Has anyone else experienced this unusual behavior?

Is it a uBPD power sign to initiate a separation to avoid abandonment?

[Meili]

Yes, pwBPD, well this applies to anyone really, can initiate a separation to avoid abandonment.

A few posts back, you asked if there is any hope. I know that it sounds trite, but as long as you have hope, there is hope. The question then becomes, what are you going to do with that hope?

If you're going to hold onto that hope, are you going to actively try to change it from just hope to action? It only takes one partner to change the dynamics of a relationship, so you can be in control of that if you choose.

What is it that you want to do?

[amusement park]

What I want to do is walk away from conflict until anger settles down. I want to do a better job of SET and validation. I also want to have better boundaries and would love for her to address her problems. I've been working with a counselor myself and she feels I'm doing a great job. I've emailed my wife many times with no response. Nice emails I might add. My counselor suggested to stop attempting communication. Any thoughts?

[Meili]

I agree with your counselor. One of the things that we, the nons, tend to do in these situations is chase. I think that we all do it with the intent to show that we still love our pwBPD, aren't abandoning them, and that we're still here. This tends to make things worse. Much of what it takes to save these relationships when it gets to this point is counter-intuitive.

We continue to talk about the relationship and put pressure in one form or another on our pwBPD because of our own fears and insecurities. I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but we often want answers, resolution (one way or the others), and/or for them to give us a hint of which direction to take. This tends to further tax their already over-stressed emotions and inflames the situation.

Another benefit to not chasing is that it gives us time to figure out things like why we have poor boundary control. Have you looked at that yet?

To be able to use the communication tools successfully, we need to not allow our own emotions to control our thoughts: we need to think with a Wisemind. Using both our intellectual thoughts and our emotional thoughts equally to make decisions keeps us from acting at one extreme or the other.

It sounds like you're on the right track AP.

[amusement park]

So are you saying to just lay low and let her make a move for communication?

[DaddyBear77]

So are you saying to just lay low and let her make a move for communication?

ap, I think what Meili is saying is something like this - when your spouse initiates a separation, she may or may not be using a power move. It's hard to say exactly what the purpose is. But if you immediately and desperately respond... .

I've emailed my wife many times with no response. Nice emails I might add. My counselor suggested to stop attempting communication. Any thoughts?

... .you're reacting out of your OWN emotions, and may not be making the best decisions.

By the way, please don't think you're alone on this. I can't STAND sitting on my hands waiting for my wife to communicate with me, even after I've been called names, raged at, and otherwise treated like dirt. Like the pwBPD, I also hate feeling like I've been abandoned or rejected, no matter what the underlying reason was. It used to be that seconds after it happened, no matter what, I'd text and text and email and just let all my emotions run wild. However, I've learned that integrating my reasonable/logical mind with my emotional mind helps me make a MUCH better response.

Wisemind is the concept I'm using here - in addition to the link Meili sent, take a look here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

Could your counselor have been thinking of this concept when they suggested you stop?

[amusement park]

Thank you for the advice and suggestions. I will work hard on wise mind and some anger management with my counselor. Making myself a better person is all I can do.

[amusement park]

Why do BPD's continue to argue? I've tried to walk away from an argument numerous times and she comes right after me and continues to berate me. I tell her I don't want to argue. She continues until I finally blow up myself, which I know is wrong. I don't understand this behavior. If anyone can make sense of it, please explain.

[Sunfl0wer]

Why do BPD's continue to argue? I've tried to walk away from an argument numerous times and she comes right after me and continues to berate me. I tell her I don't want to argue. She continues until I finally blow up myself, which I know is wrong. I don't understand this behavior. If anyone can make sense of it, please explain.

Often a pwBPD wants others to share in, and "feel" their pain.  One way to accomplish this is to trigger pain in others via projections.

For example, my sis with BPD would feel utterly lonely, so then would degrade someone, tell them how useless and worthless they are, and "enjoy" watching them feeling torn apart and alone.  

It is a way for her to feel "validated" about her feelings.
When she sees that person hurting, even tho they are distant from her for her behavior, she feels more human, less alone in a way, she feels her experienced is somehow now normalized and it makes her feel a bit more "normal."

For her... .
to feel utterly alone in this world with her feelings of worthlessness = unbearable.
But... .
To see another person whom she once respected or even admired, now display the same alone and sense of worthless she was feeling = now life is bearable. Now she feels her immense feelings must now be in a "normal" range of human experiences and her feelings therfore "reasonable."

... .

My ex would block a doorway, tell me to hit him if I wanted to pass.
I am sure he felt like a loser for his bullying tactics, so wanted to provoke me into hitting him so in his head, he could classify me the bully.  Then in his head, he effectively projected feelings of himself that are uncomfortable, "I am a bully," onto me, "she is a bully, I am a victim."  
It is a way of avoiding uncomfortable feelings.

... .

Another thing... .
Any attention can be "better" than no attention.
It can simply be a way of engaging.
Maybe not just walk away, but actually leave the enviornment is needed.

... .

Also, many equate emotional intensity with love.
So if you seem non chalant about something they feel passionate about, they may try to trigger intensity intermittently... .because for some ... .intensity=love.

[Meili]

I agree with what Sunfl0wer is saying to you AM.

One thing that I learned was that by trying to just walk away from an argument, I was invalidating my x.

My situation greatly improved when I stopped doing that and started validating her feelings. This let her know that she was being heard. Besides, how do you argue about what another person feels?

[amusement park]

Would it make any sense for me to give my wife a tough love email regarding choices she has made in life? I'm her third marriage, right now it's failing. When we met she played the victim in her previous two. I feel for it and now know better. Her mother is a huge enabler, supporting her daughter 100 percent for her behavior. My therapist pointed that out to me. My wife's sphere of influence are all divorced and still single. I'm sure their advice is credible. I have gotten her to a hospital quickly where she was diagnosed with a slight stroke, aka tia. I have cared for her in other illnesses and always put her first, ahead of me. She continually files for divorce at the smallest issues. That right there shows immature emotions. I still have strong feelings for her and so far she won't seek help to diagnose what I and my therapist believe is BPD. Any thoughts.

[Meili]

I guess that depends on what you consider "tough love." There are some things that are better discussed and some that are better with action. Timing and the approach used is also important.

There's a long list of different communication techniques to use in specific situations and for specific desired outcomes in the lesson Communicate - Listen and Be Heard. For example:

• SET is used when you want to communicate a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the BPs role in solving the problem.
• DEARMAN is used when you have an objective , you want something specific.
• GIVE is used when you are working on keeping the relationship intact.  You are sincerely working on helping make things better. This is not used to get what you want or to prove your point. In fact, those will make things worse.
• FAST is used to preserve your sense of self respect. This is your line in the sand kind of stuff. If you give in on these, you will feel awful about yourself.

There is also PUVAS, but it's a lot like DEARMAN. SET and DEARMAN are the two that we talk about the most around here.

[amusement park]

We bought a beautiful home in Florida. It was going to be our retirement home. I had movers scheduled to load a truck which I was going to drive. I had hotel rooms scheduled en route. I had someone scheduled to unload us down there. A day before we left we got into an argument. She promptly cancelled everything and sold the house for a loss. Months later we got back together. We purchased another home. Not in Florida but our home state. We put down earnest money on the home. A couple days later she called our realtor and cancelled the contract. I was very embarrassed and thankfully we received all of the earnest money back. We then purchased another home later and a big blow up occurred 3 months later and she made conditions so bad that I moved out. Several years ago she was in such a rage that she backed the car through the garage door on the way out. She left me in Florida once while we were on vacation. She got into a rage and took off driving home, some 24 hours. I had to fly home and she justified it by saying that I told her I would get home using an alternative mode of transportation. I would have NEVER left her alone like that. Just typing this makes me realize what I put up with. An extremely unstable person in an unstable relationship with me. She doesn't think anything is wrong with her. I believe my mind is made up to get out while I still have a mind.

[amusement park]

I think what bothers me the most is that many who know my wife see a problem there. It frustrates me to not end that both her and her mother feel there is nothing wrong with her. I've tried and tried to get her help to no avail. Everyone says it's her problem, not yours. I understand that, but it just kills me seeing such a fine person choosing to live a life of constant struggles. I guess that's the caring side of me showing through. I would appreciate any input on letting go.

[Meili]

There is no shame in wanting to move on when you've experienced all that you have. The Learning from the Wounds of a Failed Relationship board can help you work through that process.

No matter which direction you decide to take, it may help with the emotions that you are and will experience to remember that while she is an adult and responsible for her own choices and actions, she has maladaptive coping skills and doesn't have the tools to deal with things in a mature fashion. Does that excuse her behavior? Certainly not! Understanding and accepting that just makes it easier on us to accept the reality of what we experience and let go of some of the anger and frustration.

[amusement park]

Thank you for the thoughtful advice. She loves to project the fault onto me. She is fooling no one but her mother and herself. Do they ever hit rock bottom in a way that their partners might when they finally decide to change their lives?

[Meili]

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "rock bottom."

I would argue that my x was at rock bottom the entire time I knew her. Based on everything that I saw, her life is a constant juggling act to keep everything misdirected and never allowing anyone to see the true her. Everyday it was a constant struggle for her to maintain the illusions that she had created. There was almost never a day without some catastrophic drama.

Sure, from the outside everything looked lovely, inviting, and wonderful. But when I was finally allowed to see what was beneath the surface, it was a completely different story. She hated herself, her life, and never thought that she was good enough for anyone or anything. It wasn't pretty at all.

She's alone in the world with just an enabling mother to truly care about her (well, and I'll always care but that's neither here nor there), she's buried in debt, has no real plans for her future, and no truly close friends.

Has she decided to change her life? That I don't know. Before I walked away, she was making overtures. But I will never know if she followed through with any of them.

[amusement park]

Had I known about this website and message board several years ago, my relationship would have been much different. When she would break into a full blown argument, I could have handled the situation much differently and much better. I just didn't know and went toe to toe with her defending myself from her verbal abuse. Now I realize she had a disorder and feel awful about how I handled myself. Our relationship has probably suffered irreversible damage.

[amusement park]

My wife is on meds. She took some before we met and had a slight stroke since we've been married... Not sure what they are but one is for seizures, or so she says. Do seizures, a slight stroke and BPD have anything in common? Just searching for answers.

[waverider]

My wife is on meds. She took some before we met and had a slight stroke since we've been married... Not sure what they are but one is for seizures, or so she says. Do seizures, a slight stroke and BPD have anything in common? Just searching for answers.

Dont think so as BPD is a personality disorder as opposed to a physical or chemical imbalance.  Lamotragine (Lamactil) is often prescribed as a mood stabiliser for patients with BPD, otherwise its primary use is for epilepsy. Not sure what the link is there.

My wife is on a massive amount of meds, non of which I think do any good and are a hang over from when DRs tried everything under the sun before fianlly diagnosing BPD. As a result she has grown up  with pill popping (and hopping) ingrained in her. As a result trying to wean her off fails and she starts dr shopping and overdosing. Medication abuse is common amongst pwBPD pursuing quick fixes

[amusement park]

My counselor has shown me and convinced me what a fraud my soon to be ex wife was. I was used, manipulated and can't believe someone can be so low after everything I gave her. I will no longer look for reconciliation of my marriage, instead I will work on myself and repairing the wounds I suffered in this relationship. I feel like I was on the losing end of a scam.

[amusement park]

Am I over reacting? I haven't heard from her in 2 months. This has happened before, but have a gut feeling this could be the end. She can't accept the fact she has a problem.
Any ideas or suggestions?

[Meili]

I'm not sure what you mean by "overreacting." Can you give more detail about what is going on? In one post, you say that you are no longer wanting to reconcile. In the next, you are asking for suggestions.

I do agree with you that your focus needs to be on working on yourself and repairing the wounds. That's really the idea here. If you don't do those things, it doesn't matter if she comes back or not, you'll still be in the same position.