Re: Anyone Tried Hypnosis?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I know it's "out there". Just thought I would ask.

Thanks for the responses.

[Duped 1]

I know it's "out there". Just thought I would ask.

Thanks for the responses.

[once removed]

what spawned the idea?
what would you be hoping to get out of it?

If you look within the lessons on Detaching (top of board and to the right, as I'm sure you know) can you identify where you feel you are struggling specifically?

[Seenowayout]

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing for myself.  So tired of obsessing.  Just want a lobotomy or someway to remove the thoughts.  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.  And I'm only 3 months.  But I guess that's part of the problem -- looking for easy way out  Not dealing with whatever's inside me that has me here in the first place.

[Duped 1]

what spawned the idea?
what would you be hoping to get out of it?

A friend told me how hypnosis helped him get over the hump in regard to his nicotine addiction so I was just curious if it might have any potential for decreasing ruminations.

[once removed]

decreasing ruminations.

have you gotten any advice or thoughts from your new therapist?

[Duped 1]

have you gotten any advice or thoughts from your new therapist?

Yes:

Post an affirmation or two that really ring true to me in a highly visible place and read them several times each day.

When I'm really struggling or hurting my mantra has become: "Just breathe and it will pass" I sometimes say it aloud. I also say or  think: the abusive lying slut isn't worth all of this pain. The breathing pattern is 4-7-8. 4 seconds inhale, hold for 7, exhale forcefully for 8 and repeat. There is some youtube info on this as well.

Healthy Distractions: Fake it till you make it. At times I just need to force myself to do the things I enjoyed when I was in a better place. I am working out regularly, fishing more, getting more back into shooting and archery, slowly getting some real interest back in the things I used to enjoy but it's a struggle and I'm just going through the motions at times.

Keep reading, researching, and understanding the disorder.

Thought Diffusion- imagine the thoughts as clouds or leaves in the river that come and go. They flow smoothly and naturally and never get stuck.

Identify and visualize (or expose yourself to the real thing if possible) several things that soothe each of your five senses: such as the trickle of a stream, the sun setting over a beautiful lake with mountains in the background, the smell of pine trees, etc.

[Skip]

I also say or  think: the abusive lying slut isn't worth all of this pain.

Did you ever think you are connected to her by your anger? It's an intense feeling about her. It is the opposite if "detaching".

I like what your therapists is doing. The fake it until you make it is the basis of CBT. Feeling Good is an excellent resource, if you don't already have it.

Have you considered other options other than "she is a slut who abused me to an incomprehensible level, sometimes I wish I had her back". How does you brain (any brain) process this level of cognitive dissonance.

Would it help to work with members to come up with alternate assessments of your situations other than  "she is a slut who abused me to an incomprehensible level, sometimes I wish I had her back".

Here is one. "We both really tried, recycle after recycle, but we just couldn't mesh in a healthy way. It takes something special for people to connect at a deep level. I couldn't accept parts of who she was. She felt the same. It was going to break sooner or later, she just happened to call it and do it in her disrespectful way, one of these things we often fought about. Its over now. There's no reason to argue anymore."

Anyone? Duped?

[Duped 1]

Yes I am connected to her by my anger. This person who shamed me for two years because I went through a period following my divorce 7 years ago where I was drinking and chasing women. She was brutal about it over and over and over and would preach to me about her impeccable morals and integrity. A complete phony who jumped immediately in bed with the next guy. So yes the anger still lives as I have never been shamed and betrayed like that before and the hypocrisy and dishonest was a lot to stomach.

I'm trying to work through it but it is there.

[Skip]

Duped, don't be offended by this, I'm trying to help.

I don't see you trying. I see you giving in to the anger every time you post.

You said yourself, "you wish you had her back". You have also said she is a monster. You sometimes say this in the same paragraph.

cognitive dissonance (cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance) noun the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

If she was a monster, you wouldn't want her back. If she was a saint, you wouldn't have gotten caught up in circular arguments for days on end. You have conflicting "truths" spinning in your head.



This is from the first tool in the list of tools in the top menu bar. When it was written, we hoped by placing it first, everyone would read it. All of us (most anyway) struggle with this.

Can you please read (or re-read) the article at take a stab at the exercise. Write a different narrative. You don't have to own it, just write it and lets look at what it might be.

[Duped 1]

Skip-

I never said she abused me to an I comprehensible level. I used the word incomprehensible to describe her lack of empathy.

[Duped 1]

When and where did I say I wished I had her back?

[once removed]

those are pretty good tools, Duped; a lot of it sounds mindfulness based and i know that approach helped my recovery - still helps me today.

Yes I am connected to her by my anger.

... .

I have never been shamed and betrayed like that before and the hypocrisy and dishonest was a lot to stomach.

Duped, i wonder if you feel that it is in some way "wrong" to mourn, love, miss, whatever, someone that also hurt you?

what i mean is, when my ex left in a pretty nasty way, i felt there was something wrong with me for feeling any feeling other than indifference or hate. when i would miss her, miss the idealization, when i was feeling rejected, i tried to balance myself by building myself up and knocking her down in my own mind - trying to reverse that sense of rejection: "she may have dumped me and moved on, but im rejecting her". i tried to curse and banish my ex as if she was a boogeyman. that sounds akin to what you are doing. its fighting against yourself. its not ringing true, or there would be no conflict.

mindfulness involves really feeling and being aware of all of your feelings without judgment. once i did that, the floodgates opened, and i could face what was hurting me in a more constructive way.

today my relationship looks a lot different in my head. we were two well meaning, ill equipped people, who loved each other, and also hurt each other very much, many times. we had some really great times, unlike anything ive experienced. we had some really nasty rows and pushed each other to our worst. we had our time and i learned a lot from it. she had qualities id very much hope to find in another. she had qualities i know id prefer to avoid (same could be said for me). it ended badly (not as out of nowhere as it seemed at the time), a lot of relationships do, and i suspect both of us would do that part over if we could. we cant. i learned to live with that and move on.

is that really any different than could be said for your relationship?

[Skip]

Date: 7/8/17, 09:19:16 PM CDT
One minute I hate her, then i miss her

If I do a search of your history, there is more, but this is in the last 72 hours.

I'm just trying to start you on a path that you control. My words aren't important... .

we were two well meaning, ill equipped people, who loved each other, and also hurt each other very much, many times. we had some really great times, unlike anything ive experienced. we had some really nasty rows and pushed each other to our worst. we had our time and i learned a lot from it. she had qualities id very much hope to find in another. she had qualities i know id prefer to avoid (same could be said for me). it ended badly (not as out of nowhere as it seemed at the time), a lot of relationships do, and i suspect both of us would do that part over if we could.

we cant. i learned to live with that and move on.

Good narrative, OR. I remember reading your earlier stuff.  pwBPD traits are a living dichotomy. They live emotions to the fullest (overdrive) and it has a highs that intoxicated us and deep lows that many of us just made worse.

Duped 1, did you read the article? Can y offer an alternative narrative? Just as an exercise. Like lifting weights. It's part of "trying".

[DaddyBear77]

Hi Duped1

I want to share a little bit about my story and how I tried to Detach, failed to follow through with detachment, and did something we like to call Recycle here... .

About 10 years ago, my uBPDw came to me and said "I can't take how immature you are. You treat me horribly and I need you to change or else I can't stay" - this was after about 7 years together, 3 of which we had been married. I was no stranger to this kind of ultimatum and I assumed it would just be some rage that passed.

It didn't.

The next day she was on the phone with an exBF and 2 months later, she left with the dog and my car, and left about 15 boxes of crap for me to ship to her new boyfriend's house 3000 miles away. 6 months later I was undergoing back surgery, which I guess I can't COMPLETELY blame her for, but I'm sure that moving all of her crap all by myself wasn't helping.

So in the months that followed, I swore I'd never take her back and that "just as soon as I could" I would file for divorce. The house was in both of our names, you see, and selling it seemed like a better idea than just filing right away. I had time, right? I mean, she's 3000 miles away having all the wonderful sex with this exBF that we never had, and telling me about it, you know, just to tell me how much happier she was now. BOY was I angry. I literally threw up a few times thinking about what she was doing with some other guy, and for how hurt I was.

But, every time she called to tell me how bad things were going, I picked up the phone. When she broke up with exBF #1, I let her cry on my telephone shoulder. BF #2 was no better. Neither was BF #3. But still I stayed on the phone and was the best helper I could be. The anger had faded, or was suppressed, and was replaced with the old feelings of being needed.

That was in 2005.

Today, in 2017, I'm back with her, and have a 4 year old daughter.

I have a couple points -

Point Number 1: look at everything I said above: SHE did this, SHE did that, SHE made me not sell the house, not file for divorce, etc, etc. REALLY? SHE did this? SHE BROKE MY BACK? No! WHAT WAS I THINKING? It was the anger!. I HAD to have someone to blame, and she was obviously deserving of it. Anger leads to blame and blindness. *I* was THE ONLY ONE making every decision here. No one ever held a gun to my head. No one ever threatened to kill me or hurt me if I sold the house or filed for divorce. I may have FELT like someone else was calling the shots, but it was only because I LET THEM DO THAT. Until and unless I feel that empowerment, I will be handing that power over to someone else. I suspect that's why your T is suggesting affirmations.

Point Number 2: If you don't detach, if you don't circle the wagons NOW, back on yourself, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to OTHER BAD RELATIONSHIPS (perhaps even your expwBPD again! If given even the slightest opportunity, I've seen MANY members have their expwBPD charm them back - it happened to me, as you can see, big time, and dude? You won't see it coming. Trust me).

I hope this story says something to you, Duped1 - I really feel for your suffering and pain. Myself and the other members here really do want to help.

[once removed]

I never said she abused me to an I comprehensible level. I used the word incomprehensible to describe her lack of empathy.

Duped, try not to get off track arguing the small stuff here. Work this. Getting unstuck takes work.

[Duped 1]

Skip-

Of course I miss the intense connection I had with her. That doesn't mean in any way that I would take her back. I am not blaming her for everything either. I am just saying I would not have ever betrayed her like that. I was a willing participant here and played a codependent. I get it.

I'm lifting weights (which I pretty much always have) and doing some heavy bag martial arts workouts as sometimes I just need to take out my aggression.

Skip I disagree when you say I'm not trying. I'm spending hundreds monthly out of my own pocket to see a counselor who specializes in BPD because my insurance doesn't cover the therapist I really need.

I've purchased 8 different books on BPD/Codependency/Relationships and read daily.

If you think I'm not trying because I'm angry that's fine but it's what I feel and it's not wrong regardless of your opinion. Is this recovery taking a lot longer than it should-yes. Am I Stuck-Yes but I am still making some progress.

[Duped 1]

Daddybear-

Are you with her now? How long have you been with her and how is it?

Thanks so much for the response!

[Skip]

10 posts ago, I encouraged you to read a brief article and to try an exercise that was developed by experts and has been used by many members here to deal with anger. It, as I said before, is our #1 recommended tool to members.

Are you at a point in your journey that you are willing to dip your toe in and try it (yes, no)?

[Duped 1]

10 posts ago, I encouraged you to read a brief article and to try an exercise that was developed by experts and has been used by many members here to deal with anger. It, as I said before, is our #1 recommended tool to members.

Are you at a point in your journey that you are willing to dip your toe in and try it (yes, no)?

Yes I have in the past and I will revisit it

[Skip]

10 posts ago, I encouraged you to read a brief article and to try an exercise that was developed by experts and has been used by many members here to deal with anger.

Are you willing to "try the exercise" here - write a possible alternate narrative (yes, no)?

[Duped 1]

Are you willing to "try the exercise" here - write a possible alternate narrative (yes, no)?

Not on the board.

[DaddyBear77]

I've purchased 8 different books on BPD/Codependency/Relationships and read daily.

Me too.

Which book(s) did you find the most helpful for you, personally?

[DaddyBear77]

Are you with her now? How long have you been with her and how is it?

Yes, I am still with her.

We've been together almost 18 years, married for 15.

When she left, I felt really angry. I've learned that often anger covers up another emotion(s) but not always. I felt bonafide anger, but also a MASSIVE amount of panic-inducing loneliness and worthlessness. It was my failure to really process these feelings and recover from them, that I eventually "recycled."

Staying with my uBPDw is incredibly hard. Last night (middle of the night),  I got to hear how incompetent I was for not finding the exact right spot on her shoulder to rub. It's daily and relentless, and in time I'll be making changes, but I purposely and mindfully decided to focus on MY role in the BPD/codependent r/s BEFORE I made a final decision on whether to stay or leave. 

Does any of this help?

[Duped 1]

 

OR- I think t here is something to this. I do feel like she doesn't deserve this level of grieving in any way. I'm trying to feel the pain and not be so angry, but I vascillate between the two. No one has ever betrayed me to this level after saying repeatedly that this is something they would never do so I'm still struggling. One of the first things I learned here was pay a lot more attention to their actions than words. Good advice that I wish I would have known way back when.

Thank You!

[troisette]

Hello Duped - I tried hypnosis and it was central to my recovery.

A couple of points though.

I went to one of the best hypnotherapists in my country and it wasn't cheap. He specialises in regressive hypnotherapy, and does not implant ideas in his clients. When his client is under hypnosis he asks them what the emotion is that they would like to deal with today. By asking questions, you are led to the root of that emotion, and your responses  and actions around it. Working a bit like a computer tree, you trace the emotion back to its source. This reveals the reasons for susceptibility to someone with BPD.

He then asks how you would like to deal with it. The choices, all the way through, are the client's.

Although he's expensive as he's the best, his treatment has rapid effect. I had five sessions. The positive effects are ongoing and not just about separating from a traumatic relationship.

So, hypnotherapy worked for me. But by drawing out and tracing back emotions, not trying to implant different responses. You do it yourself, by making your own journey, making your own decisions, while you are hypnotised.

Good luck!

[Duped 1]

  troisette

Very Interesting! Thanks

[roberto516]

Duped I understand exactly where you are coming from. I too seriously looked into hypnotherapy as a way just to make the thoughts go away. I know exactly what it's like to not be able to stop running the scenarios through your head as you might be doing.

After my first BPD relationship 5 years ago I "faked it until I made it". What I failed to do was really focus on myself and why I was with someone like that. I just decided to enjoy my life. I didn't need a relationship, etc. Then I got out of a relationship and this new ex was ready and available to idealize me.

Now that it's over I have decided to fake it until I make it but I have learned something very important. I won't deprive myself of the emotions anymore. Just this morning I had a brief thought of if she is with someone else and I immediately said to myself "who cares?" Then I brought myself back and made myself ponder the emotion. Which was a little bit of sadness mixed with anxiety. I focused solely on the anxiety and the sadness and not the circumstances surrounding it as it regards her. And then I let it go.

I'm only telling you this because I want it to go away as well. But the more I focus solely on my emotion and not about her I find it easier and easier to let go. Honestly, combined with just deciding I want to be the funny/happy guy I really am it is really propelling my recovery forward.

I'll have setbacks. I absolutely guarantee it. I'm waiting for the day a coworker says they see her on facebook with a new man or something. But each day I think about her less and start enjoying life more. Hope some of this helps at all.

[once removed]

I do feel like she doesn't deserve this level of grieving in any way.

its funny: my granddaddy is this way. id call it an old school sort of belief, but it really isnt. he met my ex, and i think he understood on some level what i was going through. a bit to the right of where im sitting is my desk, and on it is a little display he gave me. i still tear up sometimes when i look at it, and remember the compassion he showed in my darkest hour.

it sounds simple and convenient: "this person hurt me, so i feel nothing toward them". human beings dont work that way, and its splitting by any other name.

sometime after my relationship ended, when i was still in the throws of deep depression, i discovered my ex had stolen from me. shed had my lost debit card, used it while she was out with her new boyfriend, and i got the alert.

first i was shocked (i shouldnt have been. i knew that shed stolen from a previous ex after they broke up.) and angered.

then i went into some sort of manic, rushing high. see, my moral code and values have a lot less tolerance for theft than other things. so for that brief moment it was simple, shed crossed the ultimate line, there was no going back.

i went to get some fast food, still feeling a manic up swing. on my way home, i heard a tiny voice in my head say "she hurt me so bad". i lost it, and i couldnt stop crying for some time. it did hurt, deeply. it showed a disregard for me. she knew how i felt about stealing. and it did mean, for me at least, that there was no going back.

i felt very weak at the time. i dont think, looking back, that i was at all. im not super man, people can hurt me; especially people that i love.

and thats where this gets complicated. you loved this woman. you invested your heart and more in this relationship. and im confident the same can be said for her. you also hurt each other. i think this is the cognitive dissonance being referred to. the hurt she leveled at you doesnt change the fact that at one point you loved her very deeply. it doesnt erase the good times (it may make them a bit sour in your mouth, but it doesnt erase them any more than the good times erase the bad).

If you where hit by a car, would you feel that person that hit you didn't deserve for you to heal?  Sounds weird when you change the events, right.

i like this analogy. the fact of the matter is, by acknowledging ALL of your feelings, and seeing this in a more complex way, youre not giving her your grief or pain. youre not giving her power. youre not giving her anything. by not doing so, youre only denying your feelings, and they are festering. its not about what she deserves. the power struggle is over. its Duped and his feelings, and what hes going to do or not do with them.

i still had a hard time after the stealing incident. it never once helped me to say to myself "why are you sad? why do you miss her? the lying abusive etc thief stole from you." im sure i tried, and it was so freeing when i cut that out and gave myself permission to grieve (in fairness, at first it opened up a new kind of hurt, as grief does; i had to go through it to get through it) - i have carried a better ability to get in touch with my feelings, communicate them to others, work with them, and to grieve, ever since and its made me a much stronger and more resilient person, as opposed to weak. the question i would ask you, is "does Duped deserve to invalidate his own feelings, or does he deserve to grieve?".

sitting directly next to the display my granddaddy gave me is one that my ex gave me. i smile every time i look at it.