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we agreed to separate and divorce
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Topic: we agreed to separate and divorce (Read 1529 times)
PeteWitsend
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we agreed to separate and divorce
«
on:
August 13, 2017, 11:31:30 PM »
Well, I haven't posted much lately.
my wife got a job this past spring and generally things were better since then. helping the cause was the fact that she had to take some exams for professional certification and spent much of the summer studying while I took on more of the housework & took our sons out for weekend trips so she could have quiet study time.
we had a couple fights during this time, but they weren't that bad & she occasionally even apologized for starting them (!) and she started calling my mom again at some point. As I've written before, fighting with my family & generally being hostile to them, particularly my mom (but any women... .aunts, grandma, etc) was a source of some of the worst fights between us. and my wife started seeing a therapist, acknowledging her behavior was excessive. I was cautiously (naively?) optimistic that maybe she had turned a corner of sorts. though during this time she did send a couple pretty hostile emails/texts to my mom, but I ignored them and she didnt follow up
well, as soon as my wife finished with her exams, things took a turn for the worse... .the very next day, I ended up coming home an hour after I said, (6:45 instead or 5:45) and I come home to her sobbing hysterically, accusing me of putting my work and colleagues over family, etc.
it's generally been like that for the last week and a half.
straw that broke the camel's back... .we go out for a date last weekend. and it was nice! brunch and a museum visit. then on the way home I text my mom that we were busy and would call her later... .(she had called us both during our date and texted about finally coming for a visit ... .
we haven't seen her in over a year because my wife refused to travel at xmas, and insisted my mom couldn't come while she was studying for her exams in June/July
).
So I send this text & the Wife explodes out of the blue. she won't take time off for my mom's visit, won't let me take time off... .insists my mom can only come for a weekend (even though she would have to spend $500 or so and take a 3.5 hour flight). also insists our kids can't stay with my mom "unsupervised" when I offered a compromise of us not taking time off and giving my mom a chance to babysit/spend time with her grandkids while we're at work. when I try to calm things down, she goes back to the grab bag, bringing events from years past... .all fast and furious so I can't even begin to respond to them.
this might sound kind of ridiculous, but I've been enduring these weeklong battles, accusations, lies, screaming matches over family visits, among other things for over 4 years now... I just can't and won't do it again. it's not only miserable, it's exhausting.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #1 on:
August 13, 2017, 11:41:43 PM »
the kicker is, her mom is immigrating here, and she expects me to sign the required letter of support agreeing to be financially liable for her if she comes and doesn't find work, gets sick/injured, etc. and her mom is going to live with us for some amount of time until she can get her own place.
wife brought this up this morning and I told her, "you expect me to sign this and support your mom after how you treated mine? Not happening. I will never sign that."
she then told me our only option then is to get divorced. I agreed.
we discussed it (suprisingly calmly and came up with a temporary plan; agreeing not to do anything drastic until we have time to talk to attorneys, and find a mediator.
it's been an awkward day since then. we didn't say anything to kids yet. she's spent most of it talking on the phone to her friends and family (not in english so I can't understand) I took a walk and called my parents to let them know.
I have no idea how this is going to play out. maybe it won't be that bad? Is that possible?
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #2 on:
August 13, 2017, 11:51:32 PM »
if she does violate this agreement & withdraws all our money, fights me on split custody, etc. I do have a plan in place (I talked to an attorney & lined up some friends and family who agreed to lend me money if needed). I came up with the planning last time things got really bad between us. So while I'm going to trust her on this, I'm ready if things go south
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Lalathegreat
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #3 on:
August 14, 2017, 02:04:54 AM »
I'm sorry that you find yourself in these difficult circumstances after having had a period of hopeful improvement. I know for myself that it was always so painful to hope and then feel "dropped on my head" when the inevitable flip came.
It sounds like you have been smart about planning for the worst, I'm glad to hear that you have provisions in place that will protect you from her potentially chaotic responses as you work through the process.
Hang in there... .
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Red5
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #4 on:
August 14, 2017, 09:46:47 AM »
@PeteWitsend,
In your post,
… “ wife brought this up this morning and I told her, "you expect me to sign this and support your mom after how you treated mine? Not happening. I will never sign that."… “she then told me our only option then is to get divorced. I agreed.”…
This has happened in my relationship numerous times over the past six plus years, Seems just about the time I (the marked target) gets smart, has had enough and presents FACTS (incontrovertible) verses her argument, to my beautiful u/BPD wife, she pulls out the “divorce” card… I too, several times now, have calmly drawn up plans to proceed with this “op plan”, And each time, when she realizes I am dead serious, she relinquishes her position, my wife had a good “state” job, with good benefits, and retirement, but now she has major health problems, her employers tried to work wither, but she seemed to sabotage things, and she quit, now she is completely dependent on me, and my retirement, and current career, and of course health benefits, .but she still sees fit to give me the “treatment”… this I do not understand (?), My wife as well hates my mother, and of late she has even colored her own mother into “black”… she is always shutting someone out, that is what she does, We too have good periods (hopeful), and then it turns again (black)... and back to dark times we go, never ending cycle it seems, It is good to have a plan, I have been reading your posts for a while now, and I can see you have been through a lot, But hang in there, easy words to say I know, but be strong, and take care of yourself, I have been saying a lot lately,”don’t let yourself get lost in this”… Keep us posted, be smart, take care of yourself, and your children, v/r Red5,
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #5 on:
August 14, 2017, 12:54:51 PM »
well, today I saw a $500 charge on our cc at a law office.
I honestly had hoped (näively, I know) that she would come and suggest we work it out, and she would stop standing in the way of my family, esp my mom, coming for visits.
I guess not. time to lawyer up... .
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SamwizeGamgee
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #6 on:
August 14, 2017, 03:57:49 PM »
I'm sorry things got so bad, and rather quickly it seemed. On one hand though, maybe things were always heading towards divorce and the time you spent in a good place (her more happy and studying) was a good enough time for you to bond with the kids before the napalm goes off. Also, it gave you (perhaps both of you) to begin to prepare for and mourn the ending of your marriage. I'm trying to look for some positives in your story. I know what you mean about the cycles, and the hope that maybe this (whatever thing) will be a marker for true change.
In my story, I withdrew quite a bit from my wife and moved into a basement bedroom over two years ago, which was marvelous for my well-being although a step down in having a decent room to sleep it - but it was peace. Because of this, and my general growing intelligence about emotional health and BPD specifically, she started to act much nicer. It seemed even that she was trying to draw me back in. It was not overt charming as they call it, but rather it seemed like lessons were learned and she was doing better. I have learned though that the improvement is all on the surface, and underneath she is still a emotionally persuasive blamer, high-conflict, fearful, angry, hurt, manipulative, passive aggressive, and empty person. I have gotten the occasional glimpses into this fact, through what I call "reminder incidents" when her behavior surfaces again. Nothing dramatic, but, solid evidence. And through it all, I am trying to improve, and so is she, but I feel that my heart has gone long enough, and I'm just about done. I think I feel what you are saying when you have reached the end. You've maybe found the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I am asking how you feel about this. Does it feel as though a burden is lifted?
Maybe if you do, this is a confirmation that although hard, and not a ideal desired option, separation and divorce might bring more peace in the long run.
As far as strategy goes, if she has dropped a retainer ($500 seems low for my part of the country) or at least paid a fee for a consultation, she's already moving. You should catch up. I believe it might be better to be the one who files. I know guys who were the one to file (rather than respond when the wife files) and they all are glad they did it that way. It gave them a feeling of decision, acceptance and put them in the driver's seat metaphorically and I thikn it helped them cope with what was going on. It might work for you. It will certainly give you some psychological advantages if not legal advantages by being ahead, decided, and self-directed.
I hope your path ahead brings clarity and some certainty that you're doing what necessary and right.
Good luck!
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david
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #7 on:
August 14, 2017, 04:16:13 PM »
Get all the financials in order. Get rid of joint credit cards, checking accts, etc. My ex cleaned everything out and there was no recourse in the divorce.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #8 on:
August 14, 2017, 07:01:53 PM »
Quote from: SamwizeGamgee on August 14, 2017, 03:57:49 PM
... .
I am asking how you feel about this. Does it feel as though a burden is lifted?
Maybe if you do, this is a confirmation that although hard, and not a ideal desired option, separation and divorce might bring more peace in the long run.
... .
thanks for asking. If I think about many of the nasty things she's done and said, I get angry and feel relief that I won't have to experience that on a daily basis. I'm excited to be able to accomplish more in my career without having to deal with nagging about working too much. I'll have free time to read and write. I'll be able to start dating. I feel excited and relieved. this has dragged me down for too long... .other than time alone with my kids, for the last several years, it seems like 75% of my home life has been a chore to get through or a minefield to navigate... .instead of a sanctuary from the world and a place of enjoyment.
yet when I think about all the family pictures around our house, our two happy little boys, and having to basically trash all we worked for and accomplished together, I get really, really sad.
I feel like something sweet and innocent is dying.
I really do love her and want her to be okay. I'd still be there for her... .just not as her husband.
so I guess how I feel about it depends. It's not as easy a decision as I think.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #9 on:
August 14, 2017, 07:05:26 PM »
Quote from: david on August 14, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Get all the financials in order. Get rid of joint credit cards, checking accts, etc. My ex cleaned everything out and there was no recourse in the divorce.
yeah, I'll take care of the credit card tomorrow. she and I agreed not to do anything drastic and other than the $500, she has been good. I don't want to be the first to go negative. if she cleans everything out... .well, in the short term I can borrow to pay my legal fees & then push to recoup what she took out of her share when we sell our house. it'll hurt her cause though at court and in mediation. so I'm not as worried about it.
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whirlpoollife
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #10 on:
August 14, 2017, 09:24:54 PM »
I agree with david... .cancel joint credit cards. It's not drastic to take half of the savings now and move it to a new account in your name only. It's being proactive to take care yourself .
If you choose or have to give her more money later then the money is still there. If she has access to it then it can be gone for good.
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"Courage is when you know your're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." ~ Harper Lee
ForeverDad
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #11 on:
August 14, 2017, 11:14:01 PM »
I agree with the others, taking a passive approach leaves you exposed financially, legally and emotionally. If she doesn't have her own individual CC account (or if you don't!) then get one ASAP. I know Costco offers a membership CC card. So does Sams. Then pay off and close any joint CC accounts.
Same with joint bank accounts, keep balances low. Deposit your paychecks into a personal account and then move what you need to pay the current marital bills to the joint one for now. That way you don't have too much money exposed to her whims or spite. Once a divorce is filed then you're likely stuck with the court's rules. If there's a fair sum in the savings maybe you can pay bills earlier, such as the rent or mortgage ahead a few months, and reason (!) with your spouse that you wanted to be sure those wouldn't be a concern for a while if divorce was filed.
The point is that you have every right to be
proactive
and have
practical strategies
to reduce the risks of accounts being drained leaving you and the family in a tight spot and your relatives having to get involved.
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 13, 2017, 11:41:43 PM
the kicker is, her mom is immigrating here, and she expects me to sign the required letter of support agreeing to be financially liable for her if she comes and doesn't find work, gets sick/injured, etc. and her mom is going to live with us for some amount of time until she can get her own place.
wife brought this up this morning and I told her, "you expect me to sign this and support your mom after how you treated mine? Not happening. I will never sign that."
she then told me our only option then is to get divorced. I agreed.
we discussed it (surprisingly calmly and came up with a temporary plan; agreeing not to do anything drastic until we have time to talk to attorneys, and find a mediator.
Good that you aborted those plans to support her incoming relatives. Signing to ensure her mother's future would expose you to years of control and angst. Your obligations need close monitoring, probably best to keep obligations limited to (1) your children and (2) whatever is required for your spouse or ex-spouse.
But beware, what if she does relent and "permit" your mother to stay longer and have unsupervised time with the children? Do you see how she might then demand you too agree again to sign and obligate yourself for years for her mother? Best to unlink those two issues. Be aware, beware. (By the way, many here have had our spouses try to isolate us and our children from our relatives. That is a typical BPD control pattern.)
Lastly, mediation is unlikely to work early in a divorce process. Court often requires it but seldom does it work for us. Why? She's probably too entitled to negotiate in good faith. A settlement is not impossible but usually it comes later such as just before a major hearing or trial.
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 13, 2017, 11:31:30 PM
this might sound kind of ridiculous, but I've been enduring these weeklong battles, accusations, lies, screaming matches over family visits, among other things for over 4 years now... I just can't and won't do it again. it's not only miserable, it's exhausting.
That is a real risk, and a dilemma too. The neverending roller coaster. You think you've fixed things and within days it falls apart again. Yes, it's ridiculous... .that it never ends. But you've tried to make it work with the best of intentions and you keep getting sabotaged, guilted, obligated, etc. The only practical solution — if she won't seek therapy and make real progress toward recovery — is to get time and distance apart. In other words, unwind the dysfunctional relationship. She'll probably sabotage anything you do as much as she can. Sour grapes. Rejection. Punishment. Vindictive. She'll only see it from her warped perspective. Logic and reasoning are apt to just infuriate her. What has proven to work, eventually, is to set firm boundaries and not let them be undermined. There will be boundary pushing of course, she won't like changes that reduce her power and totalitarian demands.
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david
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #12 on:
August 15, 2017, 08:25:03 AM »
I had several checks written to me. It was about $6,000 in total. She took the checks and endorsed them by forging my name. It was not a good forgery. She never did that before. She deposited them in a joint account and emptied the entire account when they cleared. The courts did not care about it at all and I had no recourse except to spend about the total amount to try to get it back so it would have been a wash. My experience was that the courts have a bias towards women. I had one judge actually say in court that it was his opinion that moms are better raising children than dads are.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #13 on:
August 15, 2017, 08:48:28 AM »
I get it, and I appreciate the concern from everyone.
But while the amount of money at stake here (~$15k in our joint savings and checking accounts) is not insiginificant, it's also not like an unrecoverable loss for me if she looted it all.
most of our marital assets are tied up in the house. if she was to take the money in our accounts, it would only hurt her position down the road, and honestly I'd view the leverage I gained in the proceedings to be worth it. I have more than that amount of cash in pre-marital assets she has no claim to (we're in a community property state).
trying to be objective here as well... .I've had a long stable career. she hasn't. there are significant criminal issues on her side of family (her dad).
I know I could get screwed in court, but due to her family issues (which I won't go into here) I have a lot of levers to lean on if the judge starts ruling against me.
I'm meeting with an attorney today. I also confirmed her attorney is a reasonable guy, not some ambulance chaser looking to run up his bills. wife agreed to sit down and discuss everything tonight. we'll see how that goes.
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Red5
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #14 on:
August 15, 2017, 10:40:29 AM »
@PeteWitsend
Yes, SamwizeGamgee & david as well the others are all spot on, if your spouse has paid a retainer, you need to do the same, and also start setting up self-protective measures, ie’ financial, credit cards, joint banking accounts, and wills/insurance also, make sure all that is squared away.
Leaving the home, think long and hard about that if you are thinking of doing this, once you close the door behind you, its closed, and you have forfeited your right to come and go as you please, I am talking legal terms, not emotional/relationship terms.
If she has paid a retainer, think wisely in regards to this, assume she is moving forward, as the afore mentioned gentlemen said, if you leave, she can take legal action to ensure you are no longer welcome, and have access to your own home, your children, and also financial, whatever she does while you are still legally married, you WILL be responsible for, ie’ credit card debt, and also an MT checking account with outstanding checks floating around and on their way into the bank for payment… Be careful, and protect yourself.
Grim business these divorce proceedings, I know from personal experience, on one hand you miss your family, the way you may have perceived it to be, and meanwhile its being dismantled, with prejudice, and it does hurt, even after all you have been through with your wife, So yes, be careful, v/r Red5,
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...
Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #15 on:
August 15, 2017, 11:07:54 AM »
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 15, 2017, 08:48:28 AM
If she was to take the money in our accounts, it would only hurt her position down the road, and honestly I'd view the leverage I gained in the proceedings to be worth it.
I'm meeting with an attorney today. I also confirmed her attorney is a reasonable guy, not some ambulance chaser looking to run up his bills. wife agreed to sit down and discuss everything tonight. we'll see how that goes.
What most of us learned is that being the Nice Guy or Nice Gal doesn't mean a lot in court, at least not at first. If accounts are unfairly drained, court won't care much if at all, as described in members' experiences. By the time you get to the financial aspects of splitting assets and debts, near the end of the divorce process, you may not get much in the way of compensation or adjustments.
There's a truism I sometimes quote... ."The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit." So if you show up at court and say you're the Nice Guy, don't expect much. Court will be inclined to follow its usual policies and procedures. Sadly, too often the stable parent get the short straw and has to metaphorically fight for every benefit.
The divorce concept, actually getting to that point, is new for you two. Beware of her
demanding
too much and you
gifting
too much. You may later regret bending over backwards to get any sort of agreement, however much it disadvantages you or your parenting.
However, it is interesting that she's willing to meet to discuss terms. She may not be as oppositional, sabotaging and obstructive as we may have assumed. So often around here, a divorce means skirmishes, battles and war. In most cases early mediation or settlement attempts reveal the disordered spouse is still too entitled and controlling at that point to listen, reason or be reasoned with. You give us hope that you and your spouse really might do more than butt heads at this early stage.
Let us know how things progress.
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david
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #16 on:
August 15, 2017, 12:11:03 PM »
The things my ex did during the separation, divorce, etc were never things I would have dreamed of. I never did anything as despicable as the things she did. I would never do the things she did to another human being. Each time she did something horrible I thought she wouldn't go any lower. I was always proven wrong in my belief. I finally built a wall (a video camera, an audio recorder, and email only communication) to protect myself. She has tried to get through that wall many times with no success. This started in 2007 and she still tried occasionally. We have a 14 year old so I can't completely ignore her. If we had no kids I would have moved and changed everything I could to get away from the nonsense.
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ozmatoz
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #17 on:
August 15, 2017, 01:51:54 PM »
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 14, 2017, 07:01:53 PM
If I think about many of the nasty things she's done and said, I get angry and feel relief that I won't have to experience that on a daily
yet when I think about all the family pictures around our house, our two happy little boys, and having to basically trash all we worked for and accomplished together, I get really, really sad.
I feel like something sweet and innocent is dying.
I really do love her and want her to be okay. I'd still be there for her... .just not as her husband.
I can totally agree with this statement and its also where I'm currently at. I just can't take the million texts picking at me all day, then coming home to hear how much of a loser I am because she has to work part time to send our D16 to private school... . She keeps telling me she wants to move on with out me in her life, but then turns around and cries that she hates all this and why am I doing this to her. Truly feel like a golf ball in a blender.
I do love her, and really just wish I could see her smile and not be affected by this, even if that means I'm not in the picture. I'd be ok with that, but I too walk around the house we just built and see all of our "stuff" and pictures and life I had wanted to build. It really is a punch in the gut never being able to make your s/o happy. My therapist tries to remind me that the "stuff" I see is tied to a fantasy vision of what I wanted my marriage to be. Its not real, I am mourning the loss of the fantasy, because in reality? Who would actually mourn being attacked daily?
I've been so alone in this relationship for years, I yearn for something "normal".
Best of luck to you.
-Oz
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david
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #18 on:
August 15, 2017, 04:44:32 PM »
My biggest concern with divorce was what would happen to our two boys. The first few years were the most stressful for me. Our boys were 4 and 8 back then. As they got older they saw their mom in a different light. They got to see two different households. One that they never knew what to expect and one that was stable. They picked the stable one. They were safe with me and knew I was on their side. Ex's mood changes were like the wind.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
«
Reply #19 on:
August 15, 2017, 10:36:00 PM »
Quote from: david on August 15, 2017, 04:44:32 PM
My biggest concern with divorce was what would happen to our two boys. The first few years were the most stressful for me. Our boys were 4 and 8 back then. As they got older they saw their mom in a different light. They got to see two different households. One that they never knew what to expect and one that was stable. They picked the stable one. They were safe with me and knew I was on their side. Ex's mood changes were like the wind.
That's my biggest concern as well (my boys are 4 & 2). what was the custody arrangement in the beginning? did you ever get more as time went on?
I just had The Talk with my wife. It didn't go well, but the die is cast... .we're going to move forward with the plan to divorce. she told me flat out she wouldn't agree to more custody that was allowed at law (my understanding is that's every 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekend of the month (Thurs-Sun) and every Thursday night regardless.)
I told her I wanted at least one extra night with them on the weeks where I didn't have weekends, and she said she would fight me if I tried to ask for that.
I'm going to the bank 1st thing tomorrow to get her off our accounts.
I feel pretty lousy right now.
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Sluggo
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #20 on:
August 15, 2017, 10:43:30 PM »
Petewitsend,
Excerpt
each time she did something horrible I thought she wouldn't go any lower.
These all stemmed around what she did with my kids. I am still just crushed at the things that have been done to my kids. My custody evaluator calls it emotional abuse in her report... . but it doesn't stop. It gets worse and worse. She is always one step ahead of me. The anguish can be heartwrenching.
Prior to me filing, she told me that she would let me have the kids. She didn't want them. This was said multiple times over a 5 year period. 3 weeks after I filed, she used everyone and everything to accomplish her objective (which probably was to avoid the feeling the tremendous abandonment, emptiness,). It really is sad as the shame is so exponentially significant with the personality disorder that anything is fair game to keep those feelings away. that is, anything will be done even if it involves hurting the kids.
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Sluggo
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #21 on:
August 15, 2017, 10:48:47 PM »
I would take your favorite photos of your children and other important things. You will not get these things back. It will be used to hurt you. I started taking things and storing them with friends and family. I am glad I did. Things escalated super quickly within days. I would keep your cell phone on at all times in your pocket with the recorder on. This has helped me so many times with so many accusations. It has also helped me by listening to it again to realize that it was hurtful and not just emotions I felt in the heat of the battle.
You are not alone Petewitsend. You have all our support and understanding!
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #22 on:
August 16, 2017, 09:17:50 AM »
thanks.
well, today, her reaction was totally different, sobbing, asking where did it all go wrong, we were just so happy, & how could I decide to do this.
she wanted to revisit our last fight word for word, and of course revise it all so I was the one who started yelling, and making unreasonable demands and she was the one trying to compromise. I feel bad for her because I know she's just finally realizing I'm serious about this, and it's really happening.
Yet She spent all day Saturday night, Sunday, & Monday night ignoring me, gossiping with her friends on the phone, laughing (?) with them. No attempts to discuss or talk, and the one time I tried to approach her, the conversation was all about demands I sign the immigration/financial support docs for her mom and attacking me and blaming me and insisting on divorce when I said no way, not after how you just effectively said my mom can't come visit (again) and all the nonsense you accused her of doing. and SHE went to see an attorney before I did... .she went first thing Monday morning.
I could always see the sweet girl inside who just needed to be loved enough in childhood and never got it... .and now is incapable of controlling herself and her behavior because of it. and it kills me because we really have a great family... .all healthy, two great little boys, house, cars, security... .and I am making the decision to give it all up.
But I remind myself of all the nasty fights, barbs, "inquisitions" from her that came out of nowhere, blaming me and attacking me further just for resenting that kind of treatment, the frustrations and unhappiness I felt, and relief at knowing I could leave if I had to... .and I know I've made the right decision.
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SamwizeGamgee
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #23 on:
August 16, 2017, 10:18:34 AM »
Sounds like your at the lead edge of a hurricane, metaphorically speaking. It's time to really protect yourself.
Don't take her legal advice. Especially about custody. Go for 50/50 no less, imho.
I know how tough it feels to be painted as the aggressor, instigator, and as the one who is wrecking the family. I'm going through a version of that at home, and it kills me. She gets to play the altruistic saint waiting for me to work out my problems.
Don't get caught up though in arguing about who started what. Just be the best you that you can be.
And protect yourself from false accusations. I can't tell you how many guys describe it as a switch flipped in their wife and all evil heck breaks loose when divorce is on the table.
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lpheal
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #24 on:
August 16, 2017, 10:49:13 AM »
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 16, 2017, 09:17:50 AM
it kills me because we really have a great family... .all healthy, two great little boys, house, cars, security... .and I am making the decision to give it all up.
But I remind myself of all the nasty fights, barbs, "inquisitions" from her that came out of nowhere, blaming me and attacking me further just for resenting that kind of treatment, the frustrations and unhappiness I felt, and relief at knowing I could leave if I had to... .and I know I've made the right decision.
If it helps this rings true for me as well. We live in a nice part of the country, have a reasonably nice house with great views in a neighborhood with good neighbors. People come to visit and look at us as incredibly fortunate. We also have a D3 who is very bright and healthy. It makes it easier to highlight my wife's views as highly disordered I guess.
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livednlearned
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #25 on:
August 16, 2017, 11:22:08 AM »
Hi PeteWitsend,
Divorce is painful, I'm so sorry you're at this point
We're here to walk with you and offer support. It can be hard to explain these relationships to people who don't understand BPD and what we go through.
One thing that might be useful at this point in your divorce is to read Splitting by Bill Eddy, if you haven't read it already.
Eddy is a former social worker who became a family law attorney, and he does a great job helping people like us understand what happens when people with personality disorders become entangled in the legal system. For us, it also helps to have someone explain how family law court works.
He also describes what he calls High Conflict Personality (HCP), which is someone who has a PD, a target of blame (you), recruits negative advocates, and is a persuasive blamer. Not all people with BPD are HCPs. All HCPs have some kind of PD.
This is useful to know because HCPs get involved in our adversarial legal system and rockets go off. A lot of us here on the Family Law board dealt with HCPs, and the legal abuse went on for years. Hopefully your wife is not like this.
How are the kids doing? Is your wife able to parent them effectively? Do they know about the divorce?
Glad you're getting support here.
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ozmatoz
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #26 on:
August 17, 2017, 09:19:13 AM »
Pete, its been a couple of days, wondering how you are doing? My wife and I have been dancing around the divorce talks for months now. I'll save you the details (search my posts if you want to know) but its been pretty ugly. She is using access to the children as a point of control over you. After divorce there isnt much else she can do... . Unfortunately when I remind my wife that restricting access to our daughters (10 & 16) is not in their best interests I hear all about how "I'm not going to disrupt their school schedules and life during the week just to boost my ego of having the children at my place... "
I'm not sure where you live but out here the attorney's i've spoken with have said that unless one of you is a raging alcoholic, drug addict, or child abuser the courts are always going to start by looking at 50/50 as the best for the children. Then they look for compelling reasons to move off of the 50/50. Absent any of the big red flags usually it moves to some sort of 60/40 because of works schedules and such.
Find a good lawyer, pay for a full hour consult if you have to, it will put you in a much better state of mind. Your wife is not the judge.
Good luck!
-Oz
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SamwizeGamgee
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #27 on:
August 17, 2017, 10:22:53 AM »
... .and fortify yourself against accusations of being a raging alcoholic, drug addict, wife-beater, child abuser, tax cheat, dead-beat dad, terrorist. And worst, forgetting Mothers Day five years ago.
But seriously, it's business now. Courts need to use facts. Collect and build facts that show you are a good dad and the kids will thrive with 50/50 or something.
I live in a still-conservative county, and dads do have to do heroics to get fair, reasonable time with the kids, but it has happened. This is where a good lawyer (assertive not aggressive - as explained in "Splitting" is needed.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #28 on:
August 17, 2017, 06:19:16 PM »
things are in limbo... .so crazy I'm not sure which end is up, but I think I know how this eventually ends. Putting off a decision is just kicking the can down the road
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ozmatoz
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Re: we agreed to separate and divorce
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Reply #29 on:
August 18, 2017, 09:48:25 AM »
Quote from: PeteWitsend on August 17, 2017, 06:19:16 PM
things are in limbo... .so crazy I'm not sure which end is up, but I think I know how this eventually ends. Putting off a decision is just kicking the can down the road
I can totally relate. When its really bad, I can barely breathe and just want to get out. Then things calm down and the mind starts to think again and I fall into the trap of maybe I can fix a few things here and there, some of the things she says have a grain of truth... .blah blah, I don't want to disappoint my children... FOG
Then I hear stories and have pictures shared from friends in "normal" marriages and relationships and the depression side of this hits me like a ton of bricks. I know all couples fight, and its not all roses but man I can really see these people connect and can legitimately care for each others thoughts and feelings. Most of all they respect each others individuality. I long for the day I can be myself again.
Best of luck, sending you positive vibes.
-Oz
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