finally formulating what my real needs are in the midst of my family's chaos

[grandmag]

   Since my last post, I did go to the Festival of the Arts concert (Believe in a Dream) concert that my grandson played in (the viola). The music was awesome, and they played the Believe in a Dream theme song too -- Somewhere over the rainbow. I thought, what a perfect song for my grandson ... .got to see him warming up before the concert and got a great picture of him playing his viola. BUT my family was... .awful... .and still giving me the business. The youngest was right behind me and kept kicking the back of my chair. I asked him to please stop. My son said rudely "He can't help it!" He is trying to pick something up from the floor! ubp dil just smirked at me a lot. My granddaughter ws there too (son had said no sleepover with her, he didn't want to mess with it, but I got to see her a bit anyway .

   As soon as sthe concert was over I whipped out my camera to get a picture of all my grandkids with me... .son tried to stop that, saying he wanted to leave... .but I got the picture.

   It has never been so evident to me that my son believes he has to act so rude sarcastic put down etc. to me... .just to please upd dil. It is soo obvious. Even worse, that recently he puts me down in front of grandkids, and talks me down to them when they are not here. My oldest grandson has frequently said to me :Grandma, I can't do anything right" and now I know what he means.Funny I didn't realize that for so long, huh?

   For so long it has been how to be there for my grandkids... .and how to survive anything at all with dil... .NOW it has become how to survive anything at all with my own son... .and most important to decide what MY needs are in the midst of their chaos and how I can get MY needs met. Funny I didn't realize that for so long, huh?

   I am open to helpful suggestions... .

   I will be seeing my counselor in 3 days and she is going to be surprised... .again!

   finding new truths,

   Grandmag

[Notwendy]

Good for you grandmag. It seems your son and his wife are disrespectful to you. I am glad you are looking out for you. I am an advocate for the kids in these situations, but I also don't think you need to tolerate the way you are being treated and you can consider your needs and happiness first. I am glad you are going to work on this with your counselor.

[Turkish]

I suppose taking your son's pants down and spanking his bare bottom in public wouldn't fly these days 

My mom used to threaten me like that,  but she never did it (privately, sure).

Your DIL disrespecting you is hard enough; your own son, even more so. Yet they teaching your grandchildren, implicitly or otherwise,  seems painful,  and angering.

With my own kids,  I'd tell the little imp flat out: "stop kicking my chair." In similar situations, my kids cry.  That's on them and me,  and I don't feel guilty.

I sense that the kid's kicking your chair,  while bothersome, isn't the primary annoyance here; rather, it's the lack of parenting,  and more importantly, the disrespect by your son (we'll take that of DIL as a given).

It's there an opportunity to talk to your grandson alone in order to have a conversation? Like, "hey,  buddy, what was the deal with kicking my chair?" No judgement, but, "I know such things can be boring.  What's going on?"

[grandmag]

to turkish:

   I loved your post! Thank you for helping me smile and even laugh! As a matter of fact, I only spanked my son once, when I found him in a field real close to our house, playing with a snake! I did not like the term punishment and preferred the words guide and discipline. I said "this is not acceptable behavior behavior" so many times that my son started to say "I know... .this is not acceptable behavior!" Mostly, I used natural and logical consequences... .and when he was old enough, I often had him say what that was going to be! Mostly, he was hyperactive, and I spent a lot of time just keeping him active doing things... .tee-hee. And if all else failed, I said "If you do (or don't do ) this, I will... .". When I said it, I followed through---even if it was hard. He learned well. Once, we were in the car on our way to a b'day party... .he had a small electronic hand-held game on, and it was making noise and bothering me while I was driving. I asked him to put it on mute. He did not. I made sure he heard me, and he still ignored me. I said "Put it on mute NOW or I will turn around and we will go home." He did not, and we went home. AND... .I raised him alone starting at age 6!

   When he did not do anything about his son kicking into the back of my chair... .I believe it was all because I have been getting "the business" from him and her for about 3 weeks now. Also, her discipline of that child is so lacking... .until she goes into a rage... .which she would not do in public that day.

   Every contact, by text or phone, has been at least curt, or rude, or beating around the bush, not answering questions, not even answering messages, etc for 3 weeks. And yet, I haven't retracted my opinion and statement, that the youngest is at the point of needing professional help.I only said it once, and yet this is their answer. Ridiculous, frustrating, childish... .and does not mean that what I said was false!

   I don't remember second grade life that much... .so it all is hard for me to relate.

   That child's b'day is next week, and I had already planned a cookout. Maybe it will rain.

   By the way, when I made that statement 3 weeks ago... .the only response was "You just hurt my feelings!" Somtimes I forget that she is not a responsible 38 year old mother... .and that now he is a reflection of her.

    Not sure exactly how it happened, but somehow I have changed, like a lightbulb is now on, in a room that has been dark for a long time.

   The only drawback to me being able to completely stop walking on eggshells, is that if I go too far in my own being healthy, she will not allow me to see the kids. She did it before, for 6 weeks. And even now, if I ask to talk to the kids on the phone, it is "they are upstairs" or "we are busy" If I get to talk to them at all, she tells me "You are on speaker and I can hear every word you say!"

   Time will tell if I ever get to know my "real" son again.

   The light is on... .

    Grandmag

[Turkish]

! I did not like the term punishment and preferred the words guide and discipline. I said "this is not acceptable behavior behavior" so many times that my son started to say "I know... .this is not acceptable behavior!"

Inserting.  I might try this. 

I never had a dad,  I was adopted at 2.5 by my forever single mother.  As my T said,  "you're inventing."

One thing I've done with the kids,  and it might be starting to fail with S7 so I may have to come up with a new thing,  is when they misbehave. 

Me: "come over here. "
Kid: "No!"
Me: "it would be better for you to come here,  because if I have to come over there,  I guarantee thar you won't like it!"

They always come.  I never do anything other than hold and talk to them,  and there are no precedents of me spanking or otherwise similar discipline.  S7 has sometimes mirrored it back, even while sniveling:

Me: "do you know why you have to come here?"
Son: "because I won't like it if I don't?"
Me: "Exactly."

[Notwendy]

Natural consequences are a great teacher.

I do get the fear of not being able to see the kids again, but I wonder if this is just a power play on her part. She knows it is something you are emotionally invested in- and so she can pull the strings and get you that way.

My mother has done a similar thing with my father, and after he died, his possessions. One way I have managed her pulling the strings was to let go of my emotional reactions to things she controlled. Of course that is easier said than done. But the last time she brought up "destroying your father's things" to me, I said "Mom, they belong to you know, I understand that what to do with them is your decision" . She pitched a fit. The key here was that I didn't emotionally react to the "hook".

Of course I am attached to my father and would love to have some of his mementos, so it isn't that I stopped caring, it is that I stopped reacting and the hook doesn't work. I know my mother could destroy some of his things but that is the risk I take by not reacting. I can't control what she does one way or the other.

Basically, at the moment, your DIL "owns" your son and grandchildren and you have no control over her. Yes, you love them dearly, but is there a way to not be reactive to the hooks? So many of the things my mother said and did resulted in my being upset- yet many of them were temporary. She's stopped speaking to me ( but it doesn't last), I've been disowned and un-disowned. She played this triangle thing out with us over and over again. It takes all the players to play this one. What if you got off the triangle all together? This doesn't mean not caring or walking away. It means not emotionally reacting to their behavior but keeping a calm loving boundary.

You have taken the steam off their issues by being a respite for them for child care. This has in a way enabled them to carry on as they are. I wonder if they need you more than you need them. They get into a bind with their lives- and grandma is there to drop the kids off. What if you started having more of your own life- basically you are out of town or busy during the next situation they have- and they have to deal with it.

So back to natural consequences for your son. If he messed up his room-the consequence is that he has to clean it up. Forget his homework? Get a bad grade. Run outside without a jacket? Well, it feels cold.  Basically- he made this mess. This is his wife, these are his kids. Yes, you love him and you love them but this is his mess.

When dealing with these kinds of things, I consider avoiding extremes. One is "grandma is always available" and the other is "grandma is not available". A middle ground for you might be to be available when you choose to be ( not always when they call you in a crisis- but sometimes and sometimes not) and sometimes grandma is busy and not available.  This is authentic to you and meets your own needs.

I know it is up to you to take this risk and face the fear of not seeing your grandkids, but it also takes you out of the drama of this family and leaves the son to face, and maybe ( or not) deal with the situation he created.

[bastapasta]

These are fabulous posts and so inspiring to me. Great advice that hits close to home, especially about being cut off from children. In my case it's my nieces, and their mother (married to my BPDbil) putting the hooks in me and waiting for my "drop everything and help" reaction. Lately I haven't dropped everything to hand-hold, and she is displeased. Tough!

Thank you all for these words above - they really helped me today.

[grandmag]

notwendy:

   Thanx for your post. I started making the changes you mentioned, starsting  weeks ago.My ubp dil needed caregiving for both boys for 6 weekdays, while their summer care program closed, and before school started. I told dil I preferred that she find someone else for the younger boy, as he had been suspended from the care program for violent tantrum throwing. Besides, one boy for that amount of time, was enough. Dil did not like it, but she accepted it and found other people for the younger. I talked with the younger boy about it and assured him that he would have more time with me later, but not hat week.

   As for dil not allowing me ANY contact with the boys, she has done that in the past... .for 6 weeks.

   On a regular basis, I do actual babysitting only when I want to. And I have set some simple terms: they have to have clean clothes for night and the next day (she was starting to bring only a bag of dirty clothes, making excuses about not having the time to do the laundry yet. If they have medication, they MUST bring that. (the older boy is on medication for bad allergies and a couple of times she did not pack it). I MUST know if they are sick with anything contagious, as I am over 60, a diabetic, and had picked up their illnesses too many times after babysitting when she never told me they were sick until they came in my door. Pretty basic, but with her, I have to be very clear with boundaries!

   As for enabling son and dil... .no. They don't need dany help from me to be in a daily "mess" of their own!

   I do have a life of my own, and in the last 2 months, even more so. I am soo busy, and not just work... .doing things I enjoy,too... .becoming more free from their mess means I actually DO enjoy my own things more!

   I will have my own emotions... .my own legitimate ones... and not those my dil would like to "make" me have, by whatever means.

   AS for my son, he is finding out that Mom doesn't play any more. Period.

   I saw my counselor today, and she was tickled pink, saying I have made great strides the last couple of months... .and made my next appointment further out than ever. Music to my ears :-)

   Tomorrow, I am having son and the boys here for dinner/visit. I am picking the boys up from their after school program so we can have an extra hour for "visit". I am looking forward to it! Especially seeing the boys for a bit without either parent tee-hee

   Emerging from the cave... .or the coma... .

              grandmag

[Notwendy]

Good for you grandmag! Boundaries and self care are important. Glad to see you taking these steps!


I love the contingencies- clean clothes, not being always available when DIL is in a pinch.

I love how you tell the kids " not this time, but another time" so they understand that grandma will see them. Glad you are busy and understand that the mess your son and DIL are in is not your mess.