Round and round we go...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I recently made a post about how my upwBPD has been pushing for me to move back in with her.

Past: we were engaged and living together. During the worst rage/episode shes ever had in our relationship, she kicked me out and turned me as black as you could imagine. I was Enemy #1. 

Present: She has acknowledged she does need therapy and help. Has yet to state out loud that she agrees it may be BPD but shows signs of having done some research into it (using verbiage such as the "hurt inner child" and what not). We've been back together for going on 2 months now and things, for the most part, have been great. Last week she dysregulated pretty badly which led to a rage but we worked through it and she really did come to the conclusion on her own that her actions/behavior were completely uncalled for. Great stuff.

Now... .back to the issue that just seems to keep going round and around and aroound!  The "moving back in" conversation.  When we decided to give this relationship another go we set some boundaries and ground rules for it. We would not be suddenly engaged again, that would take some time. We would not jump right back into living together, that would also take some time. A month into being back together the conversations of me moving back in started getting initiated by her. At first they were easily worked out and we'd eventually settle on "theres no need to rush." Then, the episode a week ago where she raged at me told me she hated me and we were done was all the doing of her feeling negatively about the fact that I have not moved back in and have stuck firm to NOT moving back in yet.  After this episode passed, we spoke and she stated how she completely understands why I'd be nervous about moving back in. Told me she didnt blame me for being scared considering her actions during that rage that mimicked actions from the past. Recognized all of it and genuinely seemed to "get it"

Now... .here we are (1 wonderful week spent together after that rage episode)... .work is stressing her out because of her schedule and suddenly... the moving in conversation surfaces. Coupled with a bunch of side conversations that somehow, not sure how, are all related to the moving in debacle.

My thing is:  I explained to her that I do want to eventually move back in together and that I am 100% committed to this relationship and our success, however, I also want to feel safe secure and comfortable in my decision to move back in. I explained how it has only been ONE week since she last raged on me telling me how I bring nothing but BS into her life, how she hates me, and how we are completely done. All things she later denied ever saying (minus the hating me... .that one was pretty hard to "misunderstand" as she claims I did the other things).  Now for her logical (in her mind) response: "You want me to have this track record, sort of speak, and give 100% but you're not willing to give me 100% and be someone I feel like I can depend on so why would I do that for you"

Me thinksss... .she doesnt fully see the flaw in that thought process. Sigh.

She wants to be able to depend on me (she can without me living there) and see that I am 100% committed to the relationship (which I dont need to live with her to be 100% committed) and claims that my fear of discard proves, in her mind, that I am in fact NOT 100% committed because if I were then I would "trust that she wont discard me as long as she feels (heres the full circle for her) like she can depend on me and I'm 100% committed"

Is it just me or is this whole thing COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!

"Move in with me and THEN I'll show you that you can trust I wont discard you and I'm committed to a healthy happy relationship. Move in and you'll see that I wont just kick you out whenever I feel like because I'm angry"

Sure! That sounds like a SOLID plan!  Even though you just raged on me and in the process discarded me ONE week ago, I am totally down for just "taking your word for it" and moving in... .hold on let me go pack my things! ... .not one single  here that I could see!

She's hung up on the fact that before we broke up we WERE at those points in our relationship. Engaged, living together, serious as serious gets.  We are still in a serious committed relationship but things have changed. Things have slowed down, as they should have. Did mention this to her but of course I was met with snide remarks where it's clear, at least during her dysregulations, she believes I was mostly to blame for what went wrong the last time. That skewed perception and all... it's a tricky little bugger!

Sigh.  Sorry for the rant!  I guess this whole post really boils down to this one question:

I am supposed to be spending the afternoon/night with her tonight. Extremely anxious this conversation will keep on spinnin! Any advice on how to tackle this?

I tried to use DEARMAN for this... .seemed like a good time to give it a shot. Explained everything I did in this post (in a much nicer calmer unsarcastic yet firm way).  There hasnt been any raging. Our conversation this morning was pleasant enough. Not sure if she was still simmering the Moving-In-Debacle or just aggravated with work, it could have been either or both honestly. I just want to go over, have a nice time... .no nonsense. She is so capable of recognizing all of these BPD things going on and then something stresses her out and suddenly shes right off the rails again.  I will give her this... .she's held it together A LOT better since we've been back together. A new level of self-awareness is evident. Very helpful. But alas... .BPD rears its ugly head.

Trying to prevent this from escalating. Which is hasnt yet and does not need to.

Any and all thoughts/advice BEYOND welcomed!

[IsThisThingOn]

I recently made a post about how my upwBPD has been pushing for me to move back in with her.

Past: we were engaged and living together. During the worst rage/episode shes ever had in our relationship, she kicked me out and turned me as black as you could imagine. I was Enemy #1. 

Present: She has acknowledged she does need therapy and help. Has yet to state out loud that she agrees it may be BPD but shows signs of having done some research into it (using verbiage such as the "hurt inner child" and what not). We've been back together for going on 2 months now and things, for the most part, have been great. Last week she dysregulated pretty badly which led to a rage but we worked through it and she really did come to the conclusion on her own that her actions/behavior were completely uncalled for. Great stuff.

Now... .back to the issue that just seems to keep going round and around and aroound!  The "moving back in" conversation.  When we decided to give this relationship another go we set some boundaries and ground rules for it. We would not be suddenly engaged again, that would take some time. We would not jump right back into living together, that would also take some time. A month into being back together the conversations of me moving back in started getting initiated by her. At first they were easily worked out and we'd eventually settle on "theres no need to rush." Then, the episode a week ago where she raged at me told me she hated me and we were done was all the doing of her feeling negatively about the fact that I have not moved back in and have stuck firm to NOT moving back in yet.  After this episode passed, we spoke and she stated how she completely understands why I'd be nervous about moving back in. Told me she didnt blame me for being scared considering her actions during that rage that mimicked actions from the past. Recognized all of it and genuinely seemed to "get it"

Now... .here we are (1 wonderful week spent together after that rage episode)... .work is stressing her out because of her schedule and suddenly... the moving in conversation surfaces. Coupled with a bunch of side conversations that somehow, not sure how, are all related to the moving in debacle.

My thing is:  I explained to her that I do want to eventually move back in together and that I am 100% committed to this relationship and our success, however, I also want to feel safe secure and comfortable in my decision to move back in. I explained how it has only been ONE week since she last raged on me telling me how I bring nothing but BS into her life, how she hates me, and how we are completely done. All things she later denied ever saying (minus the hating me... .that one was pretty hard to "misunderstand" as she claims I did the other things).  Now for her logical (in her mind) response: "You want me to have this track record, sort of speak, and give 100% but you're not willing to give me 100% and be someone I feel like I can depend on so why would I do that for you"

Me thinksss... .she doesnt fully see the flaw in that thought process. Sigh.

She wants to be able to depend on me (she can without me living there) and see that I am 100% committed to the relationship (which I dont need to live with her to be 100% committed) and claims that my fear of discard proves, in her mind, that I am in fact NOT 100% committed because if I were then I would "trust that she wont discard me as long as she feels (heres the full circle for her) like she can depend on me and I'm 100% committed"

Is it just me or is this whole thing COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!

"Move in with me and THEN I'll show you that you can trust I wont discard you and I'm committed to a healthy happy relationship. Move in and you'll see that I wont just kick you out whenever I feel like because I'm angry"

Sure! That sounds like a SOLID plan!  Even though you just raged on me and in the process discarded me ONE week ago, I am totally down for just "taking your word for it" and moving in... .hold on let me go pack my things! ... .not one single  here that I could see!

She's hung up on the fact that before we broke up we WERE at those points in our relationship. Engaged, living together, serious as serious gets.  We are still in a serious committed relationship but things have changed. Things have slowed down, as they should have. Did mention this to her but of course I was met with snide remarks where it's clear, at least during her dysregulations, she believes I was mostly to blame for what went wrong the last time. That skewed perception and all... it's a tricky little bugger!

Sigh.  Sorry for the rant!  I guess this whole post really boils down to this one question:

I am supposed to be spending the afternoon/night with her tonight. Extremely anxious this conversation will keep on spinnin! Any advice on how to tackle this?

I tried to use DEARMAN for this... .seemed like a good time to give it a shot. Explained everything I did in this post (in a much nicer calmer unsarcastic yet firm way).  There hasnt been any raging. Our conversation this morning was pleasant enough. Not sure if she was still simmering the Moving-In-Debacle or just aggravated with work, it could have been either or both honestly. I just want to go over, have a nice time... .no nonsense. She is so capable of recognizing all of these BPD things going on and then something stresses her out and suddenly shes right off the rails again.  I will give her this... .she's held it together A LOT better since we've been back together. A new level of self-awareness is evident. Very helpful. But alas... .BPD rears its ugly head.

Trying to prevent this from escalating. Which is hasnt yet and does not need to.

Any and all thoughts/advice BEYOND welcomed!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Would it be possible for you both to set up a "Move back in plan" so that she can see clear action steps towards you being comfortable moving back in? This could also set up some boundaries for her to know what behavior you will and will not tolerate towards you. For instance,

For instance:
I will move back in when I have not been raged at X amount of times within Y timeframe. Then define what rage looks like, such as screaming, throwing things, etc.

Maybe (big maybe) create a chart for her to see progress. This could give her a visual/concrete acknowledgement of your willingness to move back in and also of the expectations on behavior.

The whole thing though is that you both work through the plan together and that she agrees to the plan so that later when she tries to push the moving back in boundary you have something to say, "Let's see what progress looks like"

[IsThisThingOn]

Would it be possible for you both to set up a "Move back in plan" so that she can see clear action steps towards you being comfortable moving back in? This could also set up some boundaries for her to know what behavior you will and will not tolerate towards you. For instance,

For instance:
I will move back in when I have not been raged at X amount of times within Y timeframe. Then define what rage looks like, such as screaming, throwing things, etc.

Great advice.  I thought thats what we were doing when we discussed "how it would all work if I did move back in" ... .that was an hour long conversation that went really well, great back and forth listening and communicating thoughts and feelings. I was under the impression after that conversation that we'd reached an understanding on the whole thing.

Conversation touched on my fear of moving back in with her track record of being verbally abusive and kicking me out. Her recognizing that has been an issue in the past and even as recently as a week ago. A few other things were touched on but the overall feel of the conversation was the raging and how that was preventing me from taking that step. As I said... .the conversation ended on a really good note of "Okay great, so we'll move along as we have been and work towards that not being a fear anymore."   Awesome. Wonderful.

That conversation happened on Friday. By Monday we were having the talk this post is all about. I guess I thought there was more of an agreement on things than there actually was?  I did remind her that the talk had only occurred a few days prior and it would take more time than that to get to the place we agreed we should be at. It didnt really seem to change her resolve over any of it.

Update on yesterday: we ended up having a great day. She didnt bring any of it up and I was more than happy to not bring it up either. By the end of the day, however, I came to the realization that she had changed tactics. She's incredibly smart... .adaptive.  She realizes I am firm on what I said about fearing due to past track record. On Monday the conversation seemed to have the added "you must not trust me!" comeback thrown in to try and get what she wanted.  Last night, it became pretty clear she realizes this may be her way in. In the sweetest most innocent way you could imagine she tossed in a "I know you love me I just wish you trusted me *add sunken half-smile siiigh expression here*. We have to get our lives started, ya know?" ... .I read it more as a ":)ont you feel bad for me? Dont you see how sweet and innocent I am and how I just want you to make me feel like you trust me by moving in? Clearly I have nothing to prove. Look how sweet I'm being!"

Thing is: I felt bad for a second. Then I realized... .I DO trust her, I DONT trust her ability (right now) to NOT go off the deep end and use me as her verbal punching bag whenever life throws a few curveballs. I wasnt really sure how to respond to it so in that moment I said exactly that... ."I do trust you. I just need to be able to see a pattern thats good and healthy."  -- That seemed to lull the conversation back to our regularly scheduled programming. I'm not complaining. But we all know this Moving-In-Debacle is far from over. Sigh.

So... .with all that being said, maybe I cant actually honestly say I do trust her then?

I'm confused now, .   Thoughts?

[Tattered Heart]

When I'm confused and unsure of how I feel, I take some time to figure it out. And usually that involves me talking to myself... .outloud. And then admitting the hard truths to myself. Coming up with a plan on how to address it. And practice.

[IsThisThingOn]

When I'm confused and unsure of how I feel, I take some time to figure it out. And usually that involves me talking to myself... .outloud. And then admitting the hard truths to myself. Coming up with a plan on how to address it. And practice.

I did just that actually. Came up with a few questions I'm trying to decide how I'd feel comfortable answering:

Question: What are the things you fear the most about moving back in?
Answer: The push/pull "I hate you get out" and suddenly having nowhere to go. Finances. We both make more than enough to support ourselves individually and pooled together even better but her over spending is still an issue at times. Feeling cut off from my support system. Moving back in = moving over an hour away from them.
2nd Question: What would resolve those fears? ... .This remains unresolved.

Question: How has communication been?
Answer: Great. She's been so great at recognizing when she may be reacting irrationally. Recognizes fairly quickly when she's projected or made inappropriate/unfair/unnecessary remarks. Not only apologizes but expresses genuine understanding of why its not ok. Good stuff.

Question: Have you genuinely forgiven and moved past conflicts from before?
Answer: Yes. Genuine forgive and forget has occurred on my end.

Question: Compromise. Before there was never any compromise. "My way or the highway" which led to resentment and unhappiness.
Answer: Iffy.  Yes and no.  There is A LOT more compromise than before but there are also a lot of things that it seems she is completely unwilling to even see why it would be a problem. (Example:  she insists on maintaining a friendship with someone who we both know has a thing for her. Who in the past has made inappropriate comments about wanting to date her knowing very well shes in a committed relationship. Who goes out of their way to talk badly about me despite never having met me. Who genuinely would love to see us fail so they could have their shot. GF knows all of this... .but for whatever reason insists that this is non-negotiable. Insists on keeping up pictures on social media that, to those who do not know it's never gone past a friendship, would 100% come off as "more than just friends." No regard for my very valid discomfort given the actions of this person. Seems beyond content with the fact that I have begun avoiding it in order to avoid a fight)
Follow-Up Question: Is this part of the reason I have such a hard time letting down my walls completely? Trusting that she can in fact be 100% trusted?
Follow-Up Answer: I feel extremely disrespected by this person and their actions. I feel even more so disrespected and invalidated by my GF when I've brought up these things and have received nothing but a fight in return. Furthermore, it makes me feel like a fool (this is perhaps my own ego, but also maybe not) that these pictures of the two of them are still up on her social media. Those who I trust and confide in enough to ask their opinions have all agreed... .these pictures are inappropriate to keep up when in a committed relationship. A part of me is bitter over this entire Move-In-Debacle because she is asking me to take this giant risk using the reasoning of "If we are in a serious relationship... ." -- "This is an important step to us starting our life and our family... ." -- "How committed could you possibly be if this is so hard for you... ." (questions that are not completely 100% rational in the context but still) yet she has gone above and beyond to completely disregard my discomfort over this person and all things surrounding them.  At this point, I've brought it up in as calm a way as possible and nothing has been done to where I no longer know what to do to express myself. I've tried it all. The only thing I have ever gotten as a response is:

"You need to GET OVER IT! This person is important to me. They were there for me when we broke up and they helped me get through it." ... .The last time we discussed it she threw in a cryptic "There are things you DONT know about WHY this person is so important to me and youll NEVER know because YOU dont know how to listen!" All said mid-raging. All said while I asked if she could please explain it to me so I could understand. All said while actively listening because I genuinely DO want to understand. I mean... .sure, I dont think theres any reason this persons disrespect and all encompassing disregard for our relationship has any valid defense. But I'm willing to hear it out.

 I even discussed methods of how to have this conversation with my GF with my T. Different approaches.  Each approach attempted, each approach left me feeling invalidated after the above explained response from GF.


I had some other Q&A I did with myself. But... .it seems I just found a HUGE part that is causing me to hold back so much. I knew it was something that really bothered me but I dont think I realized just how much until I typed it out.

How would you guys tackle something like that? Any thoughts and advice would be amazing. Guess I just feel like i've tried so many different paths already and it hasnt done a single ounce of good.

Thank you guys, appreciate it.